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Have we gone to Dogs!

(127 posts)
  1. shimatoree
    Member

    No we have not.

    If we had- we would be as loyal as a dog!

    It is known that Mohammad Ali Jinnah was very fond of his dogs and there is photographic evidence about that.

    It is also well known that quite a lot of people- especially now a days with the security problems keep dogs as guards in their homes.

    The army and the Drug Enforcement Division and the Customs Service use dogs too.

    And of course rescue dogs are used in finding people in earthquakes etc.

    And the well to do , the waderas etc use dogs for hunting game birds as well as as guards for their homes and property.

    Even then in Pakistan and most Muslim societies keeping dogs is frowned upon in more ways than one.

    It is commonly said that man-( when he lived in caves)- selected dog about 20,000 years ago as an assistant to hunt and guard. He offered the dog the left over scraps and man's relationship started with the dog.

    That is false.

    It was the dog who selected man .
    And the reason dog selected man was because the dog liked being petted. It says a lot about the dog's intelligence in evolutionary terms.

    Posted 1 year ago on 12 Oct 2010 2:46 #
  2. Anwer Kamal
    Member

    Please do not try to change the history.
    Qauid e Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah was not fond of the dogs,

    Posted 1 year ago on 12 Oct 2010 3:01 #
  3. shimatoree
    Member

    Photographs prove it.

    http://pakteahouse.wordpress.com/2010/06/29/jinnah-a-doglover-to-death/

    Posted 1 year ago on 12 Oct 2010 3:15 #
  4. shimatoree
    Member

    http://pakistaniat.com/2009/12/25/plain-mr-jinnah/

    Posted 1 year ago on 12 Oct 2010 3:27 #
  5. kamal

    What's wrong with being fond of dogs?

    Does this make Jinah less-legitimate?

    Posted 1 year ago on 12 Oct 2010 3:38 #
  6. I knew someone would take issue with "Mohammad Ali Jinnah was very fond of his dogs". Didn't take long, did it?
    :)

    Let's see what a 'clown' has to say about dogs...

    You wake up at night to pray
    dogs are awake at night too, more than you

    they never stop barking
    and sleep on heap of dump, are better than you

    they never leave the door of their provider
    even if beaten by shoes

    Bulleh Shah get into love someone
    Or the dogs are better than you

    And this one by Mian Muhammad Baksh Saheb that some of you might have issue with also:

    Roaming around like wandering dogs in the streets of your native country is better than being in a foreign land even if you are pushed and kicked from all corners in your country.

    Posted 1 year ago on 12 Oct 2010 4:53 #
  7. junaid
    Member

    I dont stand much with sufis and yet couldnt dug the other one but mian sahabs expression is quite appealing.

    Posted 1 year ago on 12 Oct 2010 6:21 #
  8. It was the dog who selected man .
    And the reason dog selected man was because the dog liked being petted. It says a lot about the dog's intelligence in evolutionary terms.

    Are you giving a scientific research reference here?

    Posted 1 year ago on 12 Oct 2010 7:38 #
  9. Here is a colored picture of Muhammad Ali Jinnah with dogs
    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=379104622542&set=o.44122098304

    Posted 1 year ago on 12 Oct 2010 7:44 #
  10. P. Musharraf was another great one for dogs. If only he'd felt the same sort of affection for humans, we'd all have been better off today. As for where the Muslims have acquired their own detestation for these loyal four-legged creatures, whose fondness for humans I do regret when I compare them with my own favourite animals, the freedom-loving, almost extinct wolves is as stated below;

    "According to Islaamic Sharee’ah, it is not permitted to keep a dog except within narrowly-defined limits, as the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) explained: "Whoever keeps a dog, his good deeds will decrease every day by one qeeraat (a unit of measurement), unless it is a dog for farming or herding." According to another report: ". . . unless it is a dog for herding sheep, farming or hunting." (Reported by al-Bukhaari, al-Fath, 2322)"

    "Dogs are extremely naajis (impure, unclean). The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "If a dog drinks from the vessel of any one of you, let him wash it seven times" (reported by Muslim, no. 279). According to another report: ". . . and clean it the eighth time with earth." (Saheeh Muslim, no. 280)."

    *Whoever keeps a dog in his house is denied the blessing of the angels’ presence in his house, as the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "The angels do not enter a house in which there is a dog." (Reported by al-Bukhaari, 3225).

    "It is forbidden in Islaam to sell a dog and to receive payment for it, as is reported in Saheeh al-Bukhaari from Abu Mas’oud al-Ansaari: the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) forbade (accepting) the price of a dog. (al-Fath, no. 2237)"

    "The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) told us not to resemble dogs by placing our forearms on the ground during sujood (prostration), as in reported in the hadeeth narrated by Anas ibn Maalik, according to which the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "Do sujood properly; none of you should spread his forearms like a dog does." (al-Bukhaari, Fath, no. 822)."

    At the same time, please to bear in mind the following:

    "It only remains for us to say that the fact that it is forbidden to keep a dog and interect closely with it does not mean that we should not be kind or feel compassion towards dogs if we see them in a pitiful state. These are two entirely separate matters. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) told us that "a man saw a dog biting the dust because of thirst, so he took his shoe and started to scoop water up with it until the dog’s thirst was quenched. Allaah appreciated his good deed and granted him entry to Paradise for it." (Reported by al-Bukhaari, no. 174)."

    "According to another report, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "Whilst a man was walking he became very thirsty, so he went down to a well and drank from it. When he came out, he saw a dog panting and biting the soil because of thirst. The man said, ‘He is suffering the same as I suffered,’ so he filled his shoe (with water), came out and let the dog drink until his thirst was quenched. Allaah appreciated his good deed and forgave him because of it." The people asked, "O Messenger of Allaah, will we be rewarded for how we treat animals?" He said, "In every living thing there is a reward." (Reported by al-Bukhaari, Fath, no. 2363)."

    http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080613093625AA8B302

    Posted 1 year ago on 12 Oct 2010 9:17 #
  11. @mirza ghalib

    Why then call oneself کلب علی, Dog of Ali?

    Posted 1 year ago on 12 Oct 2010 10:02 #
  12. ajhons
    Member

    barackosama Bhai
    You stole my words, I was just about to say this. Lol

    Posted 1 year ago on 12 Oct 2010 10:07 #
  13. shimatoree
    Member

    Molana Ghalib:

    If you were hunting ducks or geese- and your friend uses a dog to fetch the ducks from the river- then is it OK to eat the duck or goose ?

    Oh by the way they did not hunt ducks in Arabia since there are very few rivers and Arabia probably is not on the duck FLY Way ?
    Besides there were no shots guns in those days either ? So hunting fast flying ducks or other birds was not possible.

    Also hunting upland game birds like Chukore, Seesay and other partridge breeds- retrieval by hunting dogs- please also comment.

    And of course do not forget your favourite Diogenes-( though not a Muslim) spent his entire life sleeping in wine caskets where the only warmth available to him was his friends- Oh not human beings but dogs!

    Posted 1 year ago on 12 Oct 2010 10:41 #
  14. shimatoree
    Member

    MG-

    Oh I forgot to ask they did not keep dogs in their houses.

    Did they allow the salves to live in their houses or were they kept out too?

    Posted 1 year ago on 12 Oct 2010 10:42 #
  15. ajhons
    Member

    So what exactly this post is for, "to prove we are worse then Dog" Or "Did Jinnah found of Dogs" or "Place of Dogs in Islam" Or "USA treats us like a Dog" and what conclusion are we heading for.

    Posted 1 year ago on 12 Oct 2010 11:12 #
  16. Oh marvellous! I've got both of you on my neck now, BO as well as shimatoree. Why exactly? I was just trying to be helpful for once. Thought I'd give you the religious background before others came and certain disputes started once again.

    I did say I liked wolves best. Nothing against dogs. Beautiful creatures. But I still don't understand why they like human beings so much. Doesn't say much for their instinct, does it? In my experience of them (humans, I mean, not dogs), they are not much to boast of, disloyal, vain, lying creatures that most of them turn out to be. Diogenes knew them inside out. That's why he refused to have any truck with them.

    Shame on you, man's best friend. Turn on them all the next time you get a chance and give them a good bite is what I say.

    Posted 1 year ago on 12 Oct 2010 11:35 #
  17. Sir, chickni machli ke tarah nikalna koi ap se seekhay. There is so much Swissness in you, meethi churi se waar bhi kerdetain hain pher masoom bhi ban jatain hain. Keep it up.

    Posted 1 year ago on 12 Oct 2010 11:51 #
  18. Wah, wah, BO! That was excellent! What has come over you? Do I go round accusing you of being whatever you are or might be?

    I think you're all aggrieved that this time I beat you to it and did the cut and paste job so usual in such cases. You're mad because you can't get me in the usual quarrel about what's in the Holy Quran and what in the sunnah.

    As for being Swiss, BO, you've probably never met one of those dear creatures in your life. Otherwise you'd never have come out with your statement above. Also, running down the Shia, well that's up to you. Though I will say this for them, they are not the biggest obstacle in putting aside sectarian strife.

    Come on, man, wake up and use the philosophical side of your brain somewhat. I know it's there somewhere.

    Posted 1 year ago on 12 Oct 2010 12:07 #
  19. Sir main ne agar ap ki thori see taang khainch li tu kia juram kerliya?

    Do I go round accusing you of being whatever you are or might be?

    of course you do, you have, you will, you hafta, 'member shirk lobby?

    you can't get me in the usual quarrel about what's in the Holy Quran and what in the sunnah.

    For us it was interesting to see you use Sunni tradition in making your point while your own camp uses the canis for high fidelity.

    I was 11 when I first went to Schilthorn, I, however, have no desire of Helvetians, you are right about that. I have a dire desire of meeting you -- you know all in one package kinda thing.

    Posted 1 year ago on 12 Oct 2010 12:35 #
  20. gv
    Member

    i'll second MG on his views.

    most dogs i know are better than most of the humans i know

    Posted 1 year ago on 12 Oct 2010 12:49 #
  21. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @gv: How do we turn that around ?

    Posted 1 year ago on 12 Oct 2010 12:53 #
  22. @gv

    Do you include bytches? on which side?

    Posted 1 year ago on 12 Oct 2010 12:54 #
  23. ajhons
    Member

    Ashraful Makhluqat. Yeh Kis bala ka nam hay.
    I prefer tobe bad human then a Good Dog/**** LoL

    Posted 1 year ago on 12 Oct 2010 13:02 #
  24. You guys don't get it. A dog does not need as many human years as humans do to reach perfection.
    1 dog year = 7 human years

    Posted 1 year ago on 12 Oct 2010 13:08 #
  25. Thanks gv and thanks to you, too, BO.

    Believe me, this is not the "slippery fish" speaking, but the real me. I do most humbly beg your pardon for that slip of the tongue which led to "shirk lobby". I have since withdrawn it totally. I have also asked NNL to forgive me. Up to the two of you now. Thing is it's absolutely contrary to what I should like Muslims to achieve, i.e. a united ummah with the sects living peaceably side by side.

    But all I said about the dog above was not just to pass the time. I find it a great pity that that splendid animal ended up becoming our slave. The cat and its aloofness towards humans is much healthier in its approach.

    And back to the original topic theme: No, we are not going to the dogs, if by we is meant Pakistanis or Pakistan. Knowing us, we'll be back on our feet within no time at all. I doubt that Allama Iqbal's Pakistan was created to disappear into thin air after such a short time.

    Posted 1 year ago on 12 Oct 2010 13:11 #
  26. NNL
    member

    MG here it is in your support cant leave you hanging.

    From Sahih Muslim.
    Narration # 1
    Abdullah (b. Umar) (Allah be pleased with them) reported: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) ordered the killing of dogs and we would send (men) in Medina and its corners and we did not spare any dog that we did not kill, so much so that we killed the dog that accompanied the wet she-camel belonging to the people of the desert.

    Narration # 2
    Ibn 'Umar (Allah be pleased with them) reported: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) ordered to kill dogs, and he sent (men) to the corners of Medina that they should be killed.

    From Sahih Al Bukhari.

    Ibn 'Umar (Allah be pleased with them) reported: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) ordered to kill dogs, and he sent (men) to the corners of Medina that they should be killed.

    So now you have evidences to kill dogs although not from your books but nonetheless from the same Nabi Salaho Alayhi Wa Sallam.

    Posted 1 year ago on 12 Oct 2010 13:12 #
  27. gv
    Member

    @mg

    a dog is not a slave

    its a friend and a companion

    Posted 1 year ago on 12 Oct 2010 13:14 #
  28. gv
    Member

    @nnl

    what about the dog being one of god's creatures and it being a generally considered not a good thing to kill one of god's creatures unless in self defence or for food..

    Posted 1 year ago on 12 Oct 2010 13:15 #
  29. NNL
    member

    MG

    Ask Allah's Forgiveness not mine.

    if the Tawheed of Allah Azza Wa Jal is challenged and His Sharia is messed around with I will NOT hesitate to go against my own mother or any scholar.

    Its something more than personal. If it were personal i did be offering you tea and some biryani. Its my Rab. You can mess with anything but not My Rab and Anything Related to Him.

    Posted 1 year ago on 12 Oct 2010 13:17 #
  30. NNL
    member

    Gv

    I am simply relating to you what the Messenger Sallaho Alayhi Wa Sallam of Allah Azza Wa Jal said to us.

    He Sallaho Alayhi Wa Sallam is telling us what Allah Azza Wa Jal has told him to tell us.

    Ask this question to Allah Azza Wa Jal when you meet Him and let us know the answer.

    Posted 1 year ago on 12 Oct 2010 13:20 #
  31. gv
    Member

    sure ill send you a postcard to whichever pristine corner of your self imagined heaven you'll be sitting in..

    i can assure you it'll be pret-ty lonely there

    Posted 1 year ago on 12 Oct 2010 13:21 #
  32. gv has it what once a Vietnamese said to me, why Islam is against one animal, the pig. My answer was NNL's which did not go well with him.

    Posted 1 year ago on 12 Oct 2010 13:23 #
  33. NNL
    member

    sure ill send you a postcard to whichever pristine corner of your self imagined heaven you'll be sitting in..

    Oh the Heavens is not Imagined my Friend. Its very Real and it is as Real as you see the Sun everyday.

    Chalo atleast you believe in that there is Allah and you will meet Him.

    May Allah Guide you to His Path.

    i can assure you it'll be pret-ty lonely there

    Oh Trust me If i do get into Jannah By Allah's Mercy i definitely wont be lonely. I will have Allah Azza Wa Jal with me and I will be looking at His Face. Insha Allah.

    Posted 1 year ago on 12 Oct 2010 13:23 #
  34. gv
    Member

    Ooops sorry

    correction

    you'll have Barack Osama as company - what joy!!

    ps i know some nice pigs as well didnt any of you see Babe??

    Posted 1 year ago on 12 Oct 2010 13:23 #
  35. gv
    Member

    @nnl

    and may he guide you to his 'true' path(the one i know of course) which would hopefully stop you from being such an insufferable prig.

    Posted 1 year ago on 12 Oct 2010 13:25 #
  36. what a way to start gv, the coffee and the tickers got rolling and you lost something. Nobody wished you good day today?

    Posted 1 year ago on 12 Oct 2010 13:29 #
  37. NNL
    member

    insufferable prig.

    Will you be a witness to this infront of Allah Azza Wa Jal and tell Him that this worthless creation of His was an Insufferable Prig who believed in Him and In His Heavens ?

    Posted 1 year ago on 12 Oct 2010 13:30 #
  38. Good answer, NNL, but you could also remember me in your prayers and join in by asking for divine forgiveness for me. That is the Muslim way as far as I know. If you don't forgive me already, would God be willing to do so?

    About killing dogs, I don't know. You saw what the Sunni tradition al-Bukhari ahadith I posted above said. Please to count me out in ahadith versus ahadith disputes.

    gv, yes, I know. A friend and a companion. Occasionally one wonders, though. Shimatoree is going to kill me over this so let me post a Faiz poem I like very much for him.

    Posted 1 year ago on 12 Oct 2010 13:31 #
  39. NNL
    member

    @Gv

    You know the Funniest thing is that I pity you right now and I can tell you that the Satan the biggest enemy of Mankind doesnt share the same beliefs as you.

    IF you are a Muslim then you must have heard of Ayat-al-Kursi and if not then read Surah Baqara Ayah 255 and then know this that this is the belief of Satan himself.

    That is if you do believe in Islam or Allah Azza Wa Jal.

    Posted 1 year ago on 12 Oct 2010 13:33 #
  40. gv
    Member

    @BO

    hey im not the one going around promoting the pointless killing of a dumb animal

    Posted 1 year ago on 12 Oct 2010 13:33 #
  41. Posted 1 year ago on 12 Oct 2010 13:33 #
  42. gv
    Member

    well in this case (as with music) i m afraid im going to have to side with big bad old iblees and take my chances on judgement day...

    i guess i'll just be in the wrong line when they're handing you your wings and your halo

    Posted 1 year ago on 12 Oct 2010 13:35 #
  43. @gv

    now that is really a dumb thing to call dogs dumb. You need to be reacquainted to the civilization specially when you advocate his companionship.

    Posted 1 year ago on 12 Oct 2010 13:37 #
  44. gv
    Member

    @BO

    look up the dictionary definition of 'dumb'

    Posted 1 year ago on 12 Oct 2010 13:41 #
  45. NNL
    member

    @MG

    If you don't forgive me already, would God be willing to do so?

    i dont know about god but I do know My Allah Azza Wa Jal. If you are sincere to Him and His Sharia then surely He will forgive you.

    Evidences :-
    Ayah Surah Az-Zumar Ayah 53-55
    Say: "O 'Ibadi (My slaves) who have transgressed against themselves (by committing evil deeds and sins)! Despair not of the Mercy of Allah, verily Allah forgives all sins. Truly, He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (53)

    "And turn in repentance and in obedience with true Faith (Islamic Monotheism) to your Lord and submit to Him, (in Islam), before the torment comes upon you, then you will not be helped. (54)

    "And follow the best of that which is sent down to you from your Lord (i.e. this Quran, do what it orders you to do and keep away from what it forbids), before the torment comes on you suddenly while you perceive not!" (55)

    Hadith

    It is narrated on the authority of Mu'adh b. Jabal: I was riding behind the Prophet (may peace be upon him) and there was nothing between him and me but the rear part of the saddle, when he said: Mu'adh b. Jabal: To which I replied: At your beck and call, and at your pleasure, Messenger of Allah! He moved along for a few minutes, when again he said: Mu'adh b. Jabal: To which I replied: At your beck and call, and at your pleasure, Messenger of Allah! He then again moved along for a few minutes and said: Mu'adh b. Jabal: To which I replied. At your beck and call, and at your pleasure. Messenger of Allah He, (the Holy Prophet) said: Do you know what right has Allah upon His servants? I said: Allah and His Messenger know best. He (the Holy Prophet) said: Verily the right of Allah over His servants is that they should worship Him, not associating anything with Him. He (the Holy Prophet) with Mu'adh behind him, moved along for a few minutes and said: Mu'adh b. Jabal: To which I replied: At your beck and call, and at your pleasure, Messenger of Allah! He (the Holy Prophet) said: Do you know what rights have servants upon Allah in case they do it (i. e. they worship Allah without associating anything with Him)? I (Mu'adh b. Jabal) replied: Allah and His Messenger know best. (Upon this) he (the Holy Prophet) remarked: That He would not torment them (with the fire of Hell). Sahih Al Bukhari Kitab Al Iman.

    Posted 1 year ago on 12 Oct 2010 13:41 #
  46. @gv
    Slow to learn or understand; lacking intellectual acuity
    Temporarily incapable of speaking
    Lacking the power of human speech
    Unable to speak because of hereditary deafness

    Posted 1 year ago on 12 Oct 2010 13:42 #
  47. gv
    Member

    @BO

    the first meaning is the modern meaning - the historical meaning of the world means lacking the power of speech

    i.e. be zaban (which sounds a great deal more poetic )

    Posted 1 year ago on 12 Oct 2010 13:43 #
  48. @gv

    So what's your favorite dog? Mine is Rottweiler.

    Posted 1 year ago on 12 Oct 2010 13:48 #
  49. NNL
    member

    @Gv

    well in this case (as with music) i m afraid im going to have to side with big bad old iblees and take my chances on judgement day...

    I can assure you that Shaitan will disown you on that day as you disown Allah Azza Wa Jal and His Sharia in this world and he will say the following.

    And Shaitan (Satan) will say when the matter has been decided: "Verily, Allah promised you a promise of truth. And I too promised you, but I betrayed you. I had no authority over you except that I called you, and you responded to me. So blame me not, but blame yourselves. I cannot help you, nor can you help me. I deny your former act in associating me (Satan) as a partner with Allah (by obeying me in the life of the world). Verily, there is a painful torment for the Zalimun (polytheists and wrong-doers)."
    ( سورة إبراهيم , Ibrahim, Chapter #14, Verse #22)

    Posted 1 year ago on 12 Oct 2010 13:51 #
  50. gv
    Member

    @BO

    go figure

    labs & spaniels mostly which is my experience.. always wanted a german shepherd but they are a lot of work

    Posted 1 year ago on 12 Oct 2010 13:51 #

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