How different can real Islam be from the version of it found in Saudia anyway?

PKPolitics Discuss » Faith and Religion

How different can real Islam be from the version of it found in Saudia anyway?

(42 posts)

acsher
Member

Generally no body (except for a bunch of people like us who are victims of inferiority complex and brought up on the charity of Saudis ) gives a damn as to what is happening inside this country which is other wise known as the home of Islam, but today when I watched this video in which a woman is being "fatwaised" just because for the first time in the history of saudia she managed to reach the finals of an Idol like competition (its not precisely like American idol because instead of the songs they are only allowed to recite their own poems in "tarannum" ..Remember Songs are forbidden in Islam?? ;) and in that program her poems criticized those who give Fatwas against people for no reason! (unfortunately for her since giving fatwas are the favorite past time of Saudis therefore when she recited her poem a very well known "Fatwist" of Saudia had just given fatwa against all those people who in any way become a reason for or encourage any such gatherings where both men and women are present, saying that they deserve to be killed!

Now not surprisingly , this completely veiled woman is getting death threats now, so much so, that people are asking for her home address to kill her just because she was unlucky enough to get her timing wrong!

Also in that video, I was shocked to know that in Saudia, WOMEN ARE STILL NOT ALLOWED TO DRIVE VEHICLES!

HERE is the video
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2010/03/28/gps.witw.arab.talent.cnn

AND IF THAT IS NOT ENOUGH..
have a look at this video where all veiled group of women are protesting for women rights, the only problem is that the right they want is actually for girls to be married even when they are of the tender age between 8 years to 15 years!
and btw the Average marrying age of girls in some part of Yemen to get married is 8 years!

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2010/03/28/gps.last.look.womens.rights.cnn

So much for idealizing these dumb Arabs and thinking all of them as Mohammad Bin Qasims !

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Mar 2010 23:48 #
RajputPuttar
Member

acsher

Why ,'Muhammad Bin Qasim' , a representiave of arab imperialism should be idealized ?

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Mar 2010 0:07 #
acsher
Member

ask those who actually idealize him!

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Mar 2010 0:16 #
RajputPuttar
Member

ook , atleast u r not one of them. sorry for misunderstadning.

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Mar 2010 0:41 #
gujjartalwar
Member

Without Mohammad Bin Qasim and Mehmood Ghaznavi, I would most likely be hindu today. That would have been a great misfortune. They are dfinitely my heroes.

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Mar 2010 1:28 #
lota6177
Members

gt
So the teachings of Islam have nothing to do with you being Muslim? Tum/your ancestor’s talwar kaie zoor paie musliman banie houu? Is that what you are saying? What does Mohammad bin Qasim and Mehmood Ghaznavi have to do with you being a Muslim from Sikh or Hindu? Was Islam spread by Sufi saints or talwar in sub continent?

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Mar 2010 1:32 #
gujjartalwar
Member

I am not sure if Islam was solely spread by soofis. In any case, soofis would not make it here if those bravemen had not opened the doors to this part of the world before them. Also, we humans are impressed by power. The gallantry of those brave men was a manifestation of Islam in action.

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Mar 2010 1:40 #
zia m
Member

If the history tells us that Hajjaj bin Yusuf asked the Caliph to lend him 6000 dinar and he will pay him back in a year 60.000 dinar after the conquest of Hind.
Does it sound like the worst form of imperialism?

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Mar 2010 2:19 #
gujjartalwar
Member

I don't know what concocted story you are refering to, but I look at those events from the point of their consequences.
Just as Quaid-e-Azam's struggle resulted in creation of Pakistan, those earlier events brought us Islam. I am grateful in both cases.

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Mar 2010 2:36 #
RajputPuttar
Member

Gujjar Talwar

Its very strange that u r grateful to dakoos and looterays ?

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Mar 2010 2:40 #
zia m
Member

Gujjar Talwar
I suggest you read the history.

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Mar 2010 2:54 #
gujjartalwar
Member

I wonder where you got your history lessons!

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Mar 2010 2:55 #
zia m
Member

Chachnama is an accurate description of events in the sub continent.It is written by the relatives of Muhammad bin Qasim and is available online.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chach_Nama

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Mar 2010 3:13 #
gujjartalwar
Member

I did not find any details in your link about Chacha-Nama but the link below does not have anything against what I said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_bin_Qasim

I did not find Rajputputtar's dakoo stuff either.

Anyway, history is both events and opinions. We are talking opinions here and I have confidence in mine.

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Mar 2010 3:56 #
RajputPuttar
Member

Gujjar Talwar

What was the purpose of different raids conducted by ARABS on india excpet for wealth ?

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Mar 2010 4:13 #
zia m
Member

I did not find any details in your link about Chacha-Nama"

You obviously missed the link.

http://persian.packhum.org/persian/main?url=pf%3Ffile%3D12701030%26ct%3D0

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Mar 2010 4:31 #
gujjartalwar
Member

Rajputputtar
Yours is a very shallow and cheap interpretation of history. Hindu rulers of the time were constantly trying to push back against the rising Muslim neighbors. They had enough provocations to justify the battles. It just happened that Muslim rulers won because of their superior performance at the battle front. War spoils were a byproduct of their success, not the primary goal.

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Mar 2010 4:34 #
RajputPuttar
Member

Gujjar Talwar

There was no common border between iran and hindustan at that time.
Balochistan at that time was sort of buffer zone. And plz eleaborate what hindu rulers did ?

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Mar 2010 4:38 #
sasherwani
Members

@ acsher,

Read Jean Sasson's book "Princess: A True Story of Life Behind the Veil in Saudi Arabia". You will be shocked to see what happens in that country.

The country is a mess ruled by highly insecure kings who are lucky enough to hit the jackpot by discovering black gold 'oil' a couple of decades ago. Otherwise they would still be looting travellers and killing over water till today.

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Mar 2010 5:07 #
lota6177
Members

Gt
Are you implying that Islam spread through the help of the sword in the sub continent?
Do you know why Muhammad bin Qasim was executed and what was the accusation?

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Mar 2010 5:30 #
quaidkamazaar
Member

GUys,

without Muhammad Bin Qasim, we would be hindus.

so stop being ignorant in resenting Muslim conquest of India.

Islam in India spread mostly through Sufistic stuff. not through sword.

And Hindus loved Islam coming in, because it was better than all the religion of injustice they believed in. Widows forced to die, castes, all that.

so think before u say somethin.g

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Mar 2010 8:04 #
Fahim23
Member

Muhammad Bin Qasim and the following muslim rulers (ghaznavi, ghori, babur, etc) all were aggressors. I don't see them as my heroes at least! To me they are no more then power hungry rulers and generals of Spainish, British, Italian and French colonizers.

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Mar 2010 8:21 #
rashidsaleem
Member

This news should be put in front of that Saudi who advised Pakistan to curb the terrorism that is spreading from its soil. Saudi fanatics are a main reason Taliban formed in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Their so-called version of Islam called “Wahabiism” is a cruel depiction of what is rather a peaceful religion. Above all its not Pakistani women protesting against the atrocities of Saudi Mullah’s, it’s their own women who are now asking a place in society. They need to open their eyes and ears I guess.

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Mar 2010 9:52 #
SufiSoul
Member

I am still waiting for any ZORDAAR post in this thread,
To Answer..
As weak arguments dont push me to reply with good knowledge.....

Still waiting.......

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Mar 2010 14:09 #
barackosama
Member

"The country is a mess ruled by highly insecure kings .."

So as long the people get all the amenities of life in Saudi Arabia and more, nobody gives a damn what the kings do. Yet, the kings have been vigilant of their conduct more so than the democratically elected leaders of Pakistan. The Saudi people love their kings as much the Pakistanis hate their PMs/Presidents.

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Mar 2010 16:07 #
gujjartalwar
Member

"Muhammad Bin Qasim and the following muslim rulers (ghaznavi, ghori, babur, etc) all were aggressors."

I consider them liberators from the tyrant Hindu rulers.
They brought in a just and equitable governing for the opressed masses.

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Mar 2010 16:10 #
Anonymous

By idealizing Muhammad Bin Qasim we correct the claims of Hindus that "Islam by sword" because their were so many Muslim already their in middle east even before Muhammad Bin Qasim and they became Muslim due to Muslim traders who went to China, Malaysia, SriLanka and other countries from India they brought Islam even before Muhammad Bin Qasim....Muhammad Bin Qasim actually founded first ever Islamic State in India he didnt spread Islam but he made first ever Muslim State...while after him Mehmud Ghaznavi entered India not for spreading Islam but for Gold and precious materiel while the real once who actually spread Islam were Sufis and Darwaish while all others like Mughals, SherShah Suri only came to conquer the region and form their own State not spreading Islam....

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Mar 2010 16:28 #
Faarigh Jazbati
member

AoA All

Whether islam spread through sufis or by sowrd, it will prevail all over the globe. It not me saying but the words of Creator of the heavens and earth.

وَقَالَتِ الْيَهُودُ عُزَيْرٌ ابْنُ اللّهِ وَقَالَتْ النَّصَارَى الْمَسِيحُ ابْنُ اللّهِ ذَلِكَ قَوْلُهُم بِأَفْوَاهِهِمْ يُضَاهِؤُونَ قَوْلَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ مِن قَبْلُ قَاتَلَهُمُ اللّهُ أَنَّى يُؤْفَكُونَ اتَّخَذُواْ أَحْبَارَهُمْ وَرُهْبَانَهُمْ أَرْبَاباً مِّن دُونِ اللّهِ وَالْمَسِيحَ ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ وَمَا أُمِرُواْ إِلاَّ لِيَعْبُدُواْ إِلَـهاً وَاحِداً لاَّ إِلَـهَ إِلاَّ هُوَ سُبْحَانَهُ عَمَّا يُشْرِكُونَ يُرِيدُونَ أَن يُطْفِؤُواْ نُورَ اللّهِ بِأَفْوَاهِهِمْ وَيَأْبَى اللّهُ إِلاَّ أَن يُتِمَّ نُورَهُ وَلَوْ كَرِهَ الْكَافِرُونَ هُوَ الَّذِي أَرْسَلَ رَسُولَهُ بِالْهُدَى وَدِينِ الْحَقِّ لِيُظْهِرَهُ عَلَى الدِّينِ كُلِّهِ وَلَوْ كَرِهَ الْمُشْرِكُونَ
“The Jews call ‘Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah’s curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth! They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords in derogation of Allah, and (they take as their Lord) Christ the son of Mary; yet they were commanded to worship but One Allah: there is no god but He. Praise and glory to Him: (Far is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him). Fain would they extinguish Allah’s light with their mouths, but Allah will not allow but that His light should be perfected, even though the Unbelievers may detest (it). It is He Who hath sent His Messenger with guidance and the Religion of Truth, to proclaim it over all religion, even though the Pagans may detest (it).”

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Mar 2010 21:30 #
Faarigh Jazbati
member

AoA All

Whether islam spread through sufis or by sowrd, it will prevail all over the globe. It not me saying but the words of Creator of the heavens and earth.

وَقَالَتِ الْيَهُودُ عُزَيْرٌ ابْنُ اللّهِ وَقَالَتْ النَّصَارَى الْمَسِيحُ ابْنُ اللّهِ ذَلِكَ قَوْلُهُم بِأَفْوَاهِهِمْ يُضَاهِؤُونَ قَوْلَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ مِن قَبْلُ قَاتَلَهُمُ اللّهُ أَنَّى يُؤْفَكُونَ اتَّخَذُواْ أَحْبَارَهُمْ وَرُهْبَانَهُمْ أَرْبَاباً مِّن دُونِ اللّهِ وَالْمَسِيحَ ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ وَمَا أُمِرُواْ إِلاَّ لِيَعْبُدُواْ إِلَـهاً وَاحِداً لاَّ إِلَـهَ إِلاَّ هُوَ سُبْحَانَهُ عَمَّا يُشْرِكُونَ يُرِيدُونَ أَن يُطْفِؤُواْ نُورَ اللّهِ بِأَفْوَاهِهِمْ وَيَأْبَى اللّهُ إِلاَّ أَن يُتِمَّ نُورَهُ وَلَوْ كَرِهَ الْكَافِرُونَ هُوَ الَّذِي أَرْسَلَ رَسُولَهُ بِالْهُدَى وَدِينِ الْحَقِّ لِيُظْهِرَهُ عَلَى الدِّينِ كُلِّهِ وَلَوْ كَرِهَ الْمُشْرِكُونَ
“The Jews call ‘Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah’s curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth! They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords in derogation of Allah, and (they take as their Lord) Christ the son of Mary; yet they were commanded to worship but One Allah: there is no god but He. Praise and glory to Him: (Far is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him). Fain would they extinguish Allah’s light with their mouths, but Allah will not allow but that His light should be perfected, even though the Unbelievers may detest (it). It is He Who hath sent His Messenger with guidance and the Religion of Truth, to proclaim it over all religion, even though the Pagans may detest (it).”

FJ

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Mar 2010 21:30 #
zia m
Member

There has been some great civilizations like the Persians, the Greeks and the Romans based on myths.They have all disappeared the religions based on superstitions and miracles are going to have the same fate.

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Mar 2010 23:04 #
lota6177
Members

what is myth?
http://www.context.org/ICLIB/IC12/Campbell.htm
http://mythsdreamssymbols.com/functionsofmyth.html
http://mythsdreamssymbols.com/herojourney.html
http://mythsdreamssymbols.com/powerofmyth.html
http://www.mytvblog.org/?p=244
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Campbell

Posted 2 years ago on 30 Mar 2010 9:55 #
gujjartalwar
Member

"By idealizing Muhammad Bin Qasim we correct the claims of Hindus that "Islam by sword" because their were so many Muslim already their in middle east even before Muhammad Bin Qasim and they became Muslim due to Muslim traders who went to China, Malaysia......"

To me the apologists are pitiable. Hindus can say and think what they want. Islam spread because it was and is superior to Hinduism. It did not happen exclusively because of sufis. War successes have psychological effects.
People want to be like victors. That motivates them to change the religion.

As Quran in Sura An-Nasr sys:
1. When comes the Help of Allah, and Victory,

2. And thou dost see the people enter Allah.s Religion in crowds,

3. Celebrate the praises of thy Lord, and pray for His Forgiveness: For He is Oft-Returning (in Grace and Mercy).

Posted 2 years ago on 30 Mar 2010 17:36 #
lota6177
Members

Islam spread because it was and is superior to Hinduism
How can you prove your claim that Islam is superior to hinduism? it sounds more like a general statement in the air to me. How is Islam superior to Hinduism?

Posted 2 years ago on 30 Mar 2010 19:15 #
gujjartalwar
Member

"How is Islam superior to Hinduism? "

Because, Islam is the ultimate truth! If you are in doubt, prove it otherwise!

Posted 2 years ago on 30 Mar 2010 21:08 #
lota6177
Members

GT
You are the one who’s making the claim Islam is superior to Hinduism. What is the proof you are offering to back up that claim? I should just take your word that it is so since you are saying so? Please back up your statement with any proof if you can. I am curious how you came to that conclusion.

Posted 2 years ago on 30 Mar 2010 21:59 #
gujjartalwar
Member

Quaran Al-Isra

81. And say: "Truth has (now) arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is (by its nature) bound to perish."

Isalm is Truth and Hinduism is Falsehood.

In practical terms, we converted to Islam from Hinduism because we found it superior.

Works for me, don't know about you!

Posted 2 years ago on 31 Mar 2010 3:17 #
lota6177
Members

017.081
YUSUFALI: And say: "Truth has (now) arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is (by its nature) bound to perish."
PICKTHAL: And say: Truth hath come and falsehood hath vanished away. Lo! falsehood is ever bound to vanish.
SHAKIR: And say: The truth has come and the falsehood has vanished; surely falsehood is a vanishing (thing).
http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/quran/017.qmt.html
Where are you getting the idea that hinduism is falsehood? I did not see it anywhere in the ayah. Does the quran calls Hinduism as flasehood anywhere? I would not say that hinduism has vanished today. It has around 2 billion followers today.

Posted 2 years ago on 31 Mar 2010 4:10 #
gujjartalwar
Member

Hiduism is almost the same as Paganism in Arabia at the time of Prophet. It has vanished from there and it is shrinking in India ever since. It will disappear!

Posted 2 years ago on 31 Mar 2010 4:52 #
lota6177
Members

2 billion people follow a religion and you see it on the decline?
1 Billion = 1000 million.

Posted 2 years ago on 06 Apr 2010 8:32 #
SufiSoul
Member

The established ISLAMIC culture among the saudis is due to strong hold and sound system of khilafat at this land..
It is clear that this culture is totally oposite of the culture was present bfore ISLAM..
This all is newlly developed culture over here..Cuz it has the basic orders of ISLAM as their culture..
You cannot even find by searching a traces of that JAHILIYAT culture here....

Every thing borrowed from ISLAM.......

Posted 2 years ago on 08 Apr 2010 20:15 #
alraji
Member

''It is clear that this culture is totally oposite of the culture was present bfore ISLAM..''

i dont think you have ever studied Jahiliyya otherwise you would have never drawn such a conclusion. read their sophisticated poetry and you will understand what i mean...

the only thing islam added was the concept of jihad and qital...

Posted 2 years ago on 13 Apr 2010 0:19 #
alraji
Member

''Without Mohammad Bin Qasim and Mehmood Ghaznavi, I would most likely be hindu today. That would have been a great misfortune. They are dfinitely my heroes.''

this shows the state of mind we are in... charhte suraj ke pujari.
have no lust to search for truth. just follow the footprints of our forefathers 'proudly' and when a powerful person like muhammad bin qasim comes in and changes our direction we start following this second direction again ''proudly''. where are ''we'' then as individuals?

what if ranjeet singh had been successful. today this paragraph would have been as such:

''Without ranjeet singh, I would most likely be muslim today. That would have been a great misfortune. he is dfinitely my heroe''

Posted 2 years ago on 13 Apr 2010 0:29 #
alraji
Member

''GUys,
without Muhammad Bin Qasim, we would be hindus.
so stop being ignorant in resenting Muslim conquest of India.''

i dont see any difference. we perhaps violate more human rights in the name of ''divine law'' than hindus do.

Posted 2 years ago on 13 Apr 2010 0:39 #