PKPolitics Discuss » Future of Pakistan

How long before we get another General Ayub, Zia or Musharraf

(64 posts)
12

  1. kulla
    Member

    I am really interested in knowing what the rest of the community feels about the current situation of Pakistan, and where we are heading. Is the current situation going to get better or worst, will the people of Pakistan get frustrated and welcome another martial law? How long before we give up because we cant take it anymore and welcome dictatorship in anticipation of economic and social relief. Or is there another way out of this? give Imran Khan a chance? Have a bloody revolution led by the people and not the army? or hope that Allah (swt) makes everything better the next time we wake up in the morning.

    This is an unbiased discussion, i want to know what everyone things and what are our options.

    Posted 2 years ago on 02 May 2010 0:47 #

  2. zia m
    Member

    Democracy is a long and tedious journey.Sixty some years is too short a period in the history of a nation.Our biggest problem is the lack of civic responsibility and the media is busy in sensationalism to get better rating for their shows.They have to educate the common man so that we can get out of this vicious cycle of dictators and corrupt politicians.

    Posted 2 years ago on 02 May 2010 1:30 #

  3. sweettruth
    Member

    Not very long; sooner or later another Army ruler will run this country. Army is a political party like other parties. They are well organized and have strict discipline in their ranks. They too enjoy support among sizeable number of population.

    Posted 2 years ago on 02 May 2010 5:32 #

  4. toamin
    member

    dear zia m,

    how long is that journey of democracy and why is it so tedious? or perhaps a deception, a mirage :)

    why do you say it started sixty years ago while we see that it had begun 200 years ago under british raj, were people not running for elections, were people not part of assemblies and legislature under british raj? some people like javed sheikh are found mourning for british defeat because these brown sahib found that period to be the golden age of sub-continent, why?

    families, tribes, beradaries, peoples participating under colonial maintained assemblies/elections are continuing today, pick some and you will find their loyalty with british such as sir shah nawaz bhutto or many nawabs of balochistan were groomed by british maids or chaudaries or vaderas, they all had been participating in british democracy, after 1945 when british decided and passed legislation in their parliament on partition same people continued in power, british were far too clever to let the corridors of power fall into the hands of those who always rebelled against them :)

    Posted 2 years ago on 02 May 2010 6:47 #

  5. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    Every democracy is followed by a martial law in Pakistan. The simple reason is that the democracies established by feudal lords can only result into big failures ;to be followed naturally by martial laws. Any other dictator coming into power should firstly abolish feudalism by force, then the following democracy shall be successful like that of India. The name of any such dictaor abolishing feudalim will be written in the books of history with golden words.

    Posted 2 years ago on 02 May 2010 6:56 #

  6. skunkk
    Member

    Not in Pakistan, one more dictator and Pakistan will split up once more. Pakistan's media and so called educated middle class loves dictators and army not the masses.

    @ hussain: democracy has been established by feudal lords, kings and dukes all over the world.

    @ salam: propose an alternate or stop whining

    Posted 2 years ago on 02 May 2010 8:33 #

  7. toamin
    member

    zardari is a dictator implanted through NRO brokered by US/UK

    Posted 2 years ago on 02 May 2010 8:52 #

  8. sasherwani
    Members

    Looking from where this country is headed, seems like it wont be too long till we see a military dictator once again.

    I would support anyone who thinks for the betterment of the country, gets rid of the corrupt politicians (Zardari, Sharifs, Hussain, Chaudhrys etc) and corrupt religious fanatics (JI, LeT etc).

    I really wish this country witnesses really democracy ONE day!

    Posted 2 years ago on 02 May 2010 11:08 #

  9. aftab arif
    Member

    I don't see them taking over again for at least 5 years maybe even longer, it all depends on the civil war dying down if the Yanks leave. The Pakistani state may stay embroiled in this WOT for many years to come even after the yanks have left this area.

    Posted 2 years ago on 02 May 2010 12:50 #

  10. urazzaq12
    Member

    What I think is that this wretched government will complete it's tenure, and then NS would be given a chance to deliver, and if he does deliever, democracy has a good future in Pakistan and if he doesn't, then I don't think the army will stay quite for a longtime. And then they'll eventually takeover, the situation would get worse than before, and people being weary of the politicians and the generals, would hit the streets and then there will be a direct confrontation between the public and the elite. (REVOLUTION)

    hmm, or well maybe not. Maybe people will just accept dictatorship as their fate and will just sit at home.

    :)

    Posted 2 years ago on 02 May 2010 13:03 #

  11. runaway
    Member

    @Umer.

    Wow..u already know the next election results..

    now we can skip the selections and save some money.

    Posted 2 years ago on 02 May 2010 14:30 #

  12. runaway
    Member

    @Umer.

    Wow..u already know the next election results..

    now we can skip the selections and save some money.

    Posted 2 years ago on 02 May 2010 14:30 #

  13. hariskhan
    member

    Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    This thread must'v been started by a MQM lover. For MQM can't survive without Army 'gifting' them parliamentary seats or supporting them in other ways, etc etc.

    @UmeR: Will you be one of those who accept dictatorship, as well as choose to remain at home ?

    @sasherwani: You disappoint again (i.e., corrupt religious fanatics), as usual. $me shakes head.

    Posted 2 years ago on 02 May 2010 14:32 #

  14. sasherwani
    Members

    @ Haris,

    Most of the mulla tullaz will find my post disappointing.

    *yawns*

    Posted 2 years ago on 02 May 2010 14:46 #

  15. urazzaq12
    Member

    @ Runaway

    Well, If one has some political sense, they'll tell you PMLN will be the ones forming a government after the next elections. And as it is said, opposition is the government in waiting.

    @ Haris khan,

    No! I will never accept dictatorship. But I'll sit at home, anyway. :P

    Posted 2 years ago on 02 May 2010 14:47 #

  16. rhyme
    Members

    I dont think so Mushy would be again seen as a ruler/dictator of Pakistan in near future...he will not only be rejected and opposed by democratic forces in Pakistan,especially the major ones like PPP,PMLN,JI,PTI....second is Media...also Judiciary if any case will be filed against him by political parties...under these threats,there are no chances for him to be in President house again...

    I also think PPP very wisely playing their cards,will complete their tenure,then Nawaz will come...

    But Pakistan is a land where unexpected things often happen so nothing can be said with surety...i just pray whatever happens,happens for the good of our people now!

    Posted 2 years ago on 02 May 2010 18:23 #

  17. sasherwani
    Members

    @ Rhyme,

    DisagreeD!

    People were more sure about democracy's prevailance during the infamous ZABhutto's era. Yet dictatorship followed with Zia. What makes you so sure that a dictator like Musharraf cannot overthrow a highly unpopular Zardari?

    Secondly, I have always considered Zardari an 'evil' genious. He's like the devil who is really smart and is able to make an idiot out of what God calls Ashraf-ul-Makhluqaat. I wish Zardari was on Pakistan's side! I agree to you that he shall finish his 5 yr term but noway is Nawaz Sharif returning back to power. This I can guarantee you :) Nawaz ruled in an era where media was completely controlled. Now almost half of Nawaz's party has been exposed with cases of rapes, murder, credit card frauds, corruption, illegal imports, tax evasions. Trust me, even ppl of his own city dont support him as much as they used to 10 yrs ago.

    Thirdly, Pakistan is not a land where the unexpected happens. We have been over 60 yrs ruled by corrupt politicians and generals. Nothing has changed. Our religious parties are still as corrupt as they used to be. Our legal system is still a mess. Our police is corrupt. This as someone called it - is a nation of sleepwalkers!

    Posted 2 years ago on 03 May 2010 5:49 #

  18. hariskhan
    member

    Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @sasherwani: (1) What makes you think Mr. Z.A Bhutto was any better ?

    (a) Wasn't he a feudal ?
    (b) Didn't he raise hollow slogans of 'roti, kaprha, makan' ?
    (c) Didn't he struggle to secure interests of feudals in Pakistan ?

    What crack are you smoking ?

    (2) Evil genius ? Try;

    (a) 'foolish ****'
    (b) 'stupid fool'
    (c) etc etc

    That'd be more like it.

    (3) Corruption stems from a small group between people of Pakistan

    Posted 2 years ago on 03 May 2010 6:00 #

  19. Beenai
    Moderator

    sooner or later this time has to come , as we can see ,nobody but our politicians are trying hard for this time to come even more sooner ...

    Posted 2 years ago on 03 May 2010 6:23 #

  20. sasherwani
    Members

    @ Haris

    I never said Bhutto was better. I said he was 'popular' or 'infamous'. I am not a supporter of ZABhutto (particularly due to his centralization tactics) but he sure as hell was 'popular'! Its his popularity that's still being used as a bait to capture votes by PPP that currently rules Pakistan. You think Zardari couldve been Pakistan's president had he not married Bhutto's daughter?

    And yes I do consider Zardari as an 'evil genious' (even when I'm not smoking crack ;)). Why so? coz the bstrd makes money from places noone could ever have imagined. Whether its in the form of kickbacks, realestate, loans, sovgn funds, private equity, bhatta, tax evasions, soft aids, share capitals, venture capitals, import/export taxations, tenders, royalties, FV changes, stock markets, bonds, bribes etc etc etc!

    Imagine if he was using his brain to raise funds for Pakistan! Im sure he would come up with a million 'legal' ways.

    Posted 2 years ago on 03 May 2010 6:28 #

  21. kulla
    Member

    I guess there is still hope, but im surprised no one talk about Imran Khan or even taking the responsibility on our own shoulders....except for one, no one inclined towards a revolution of the common. Pakistan is gripped in multitudes of problems that no one solution will work.

    Posted 2 years ago on 16 May 2010 23:16 #

  22. haider3
    member

    Way up high on this thread, Salam Sahib, way below, Kulla, make the best points of all. What need of another dictator when we have one already, albeit disguised as a product of an election?

    Posted 2 years ago on 17 May 2010 6:38 #

  23. Anti Pakistan
    Member

    it is the beauty of democratic system that its create only the pure traitor and pure ally of America

    Posted 2 years ago on 17 May 2010 6:48 #

  24. Anti Pakistan
    Member

    A truth about Yahyah who sold his faith to President Nixon

    Posted 2 years ago on 17 May 2010 7:01 #

  25. Anti Pakistan
    Member

    The centuries bloodiest dictator Yayha Khan

    Posted 2 years ago on 17 May 2010 7:02 #

  26. haider3
    member

    What about a chart showing how many people the marvellous west has killed. We still have a long way to go before all the "dictators" manage to match the figures they have managed so far.

    Let's make it even easier. Just let's count up all the lives US has taken in its short history as a "country" and then moving on to the position of "master of the world".

    Posted 2 years ago on 17 May 2010 8:33 #

  27. Anti Pakistan
    Member

    wow mirza ghalib i like ur comment

    Posted 2 years ago on 17 May 2010 8:44 #

  28. haider3
    member

    Thanks, psycho. Yours was not bad either.

    Posted 2 years ago on 17 May 2010 9:03 #

  29. Anti Pakistan
    Member

    Mirza Ghalib

    this picture will show the true face of American

    Posted 2 years ago on 17 May 2010 9:07 #

  30. Faarigh Jazbati
    member

    the short answer is about 3 months ;)

    Posted 2 years ago on 17 May 2010 9:08 #

  31. haider3
    member

    GREAT!

    Posted 2 years ago on 17 May 2010 9:13 #

  32. hariskhan
    member

    Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    Let ALL of the dictators come up, let them ALL surface. Let them ALL come to power.

    For this country's people, through their struggle, will subdue them ALL!. They will INSHALLAH restore Khilafat.

    Posted 2 years ago on 17 May 2010 10:13 #

  33. kulla
    Member

    ??? i'm not sure if i understood hk.

    dictators cannot restore the khilafat. Khilafat is people process and with the way things are, it will only be restored after Hazrat Mahdi appears.

    Posted 2 years ago on 20 May 2010 3:22 #

  34. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    We need quality leaders not just democratic leaders.

    Posted 2 years ago on 21 May 2010 7:28 #

  35. semirza
    Moderator

    @psycho
    List is neither accurate nor complete. Where is General Charles de Gaulle, Joseph Broz tito known as Marshal Tito, Agusto Pinochet, Fidel Castro and many others. They too were dictators.
    Now coming back to the topic at hand the way national affairs are being handled by Mr. Zardari and his bunch of political hoodlums and eunuchs who are bent upon committing blunders one after the other while Pakistanis are comparing this term with Musharraf era, no wonder one day suddenly we may witness Musharraf in and Zardari slip out of Pakistan.

    Posted 2 years ago on 21 May 2010 8:19 #

  36. Anti Pakistan
    Member

    Semriza

    the list show the bloodiest dictators, it doesn't involve other dictator

    The list is summarized with highest number of murders.

    Charles de Gaulle: I am France

    Charles André Joseph Marie de Gaulle was born in Lille, France on November 22 1890. He was one of five children (Jacques, Pierre, Marie, Charles, Xavier) of Henri de Gaulle and Jeanne Mailot-Delanoy. Henri was a professional soldier, and it was from him that much of de Gaulle's militarism would stem from

    After the retaking of France and the subsequent Atomic Attacks made by U.S Forces in Japan, the war was over, and de Gaulle was named head of the Previsionary Government. He resigned after two years, accusing the bureaucrats of taking over once again

    osip Broz Tito (born Josip Broz;


    7 or 25 May 1892 – 4 May 1980) was a Yugoslav revolutionary and statesman. He was Secretary-General (later President) of the League of Communists of Yugoslavia (1939–80), and went on to lead the World War II Yugoslav guerrilla movement, the Yugoslav Partisans (1941–45).[2] After the war, he was the authoritarian[3][4][5] Prime Minister (1943–63) and later President (1953–80) of the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (SFRY). From 1943 to his death in 1980, he held the rank of Marshal of Yugoslavia, serving as the supreme commander of the Yugoslav military, the Yugoslav People's Army (JNA).

    Tito was the chief architect of the "second Yugoslavia", a socialist federation that lasted from World War II until 1991. Despite being one of the founders of Cominform, he was also the first (and the only successful) Cominform member to defy Soviet hegemony. A backer of independent roads to socialism (sometimes referred to as "national communism" or "Titoism"), he was one of the main founders and promoters of the Non-Aligned Movement, and its first Secretary-General. As such, he supported the policy of nonalignment between the two hostile blocs in the Cold War.

    they are not as bloodiest as are above

    Posted 2 years ago on 21 May 2010 10:59 #

  37. Anti Pakistan
    Member

    semirza

    josip bros tito was mentioned in above list named at the last,

    i think u didn't read the list completely.

    Posted 2 years ago on 21 May 2010 11:04 #

  38. haider3
    member

    It was thanks to de Gaulle that the bloody uprising in Algeria finally came to an end and Algeria could declare its independence. France never forgave de Gaulle for that. Charles de Gaulle was also a firm opponent of USA and both its military and financial policies, specially he fought as hard as he could against the ending of the gold standard. So, of course, the CIA manoeuvred beautifully and carried out the last revolution in Europe, the 1968 student's revolt which led to the departure of de Gaulle. He was practically the last statesman Europe was to have in the 20th century. All those who came after him were simply politicians of no vision or integrity.

    Posted 2 years ago on 21 May 2010 11:11 #

  39. Anti Pakistan
    Member

    mirza Ghalib

    He was larger than life as he governed France is its President-Premier, surviving a student revolt in Paris, which nearly shook him out of the seat of his government. When he was defeated in a referendum in 1968-69, he resigned. He died in 1971, in Colombey, France. There was little ceremonious pomp, as per request, and yet, there was a procession in Paris. France had lost its Charles, whose words would live on: Je suis le France, I am France.

    Posted 2 years ago on 21 May 2010 11:15 #

  40. haider3
    member

    Thanks, psycho. When he was alive, we tended not to see his greatness. Only later did it strike people just what a noble man France had lost. When the referendum went against him, he didn't say a word, packed his bags and quietly left. He ruled by consent, not by force, something our own generals could learn to emulate as well.

    So where do we place him? In the blood-shedding dictator class or in the statesmen with integrity class, I don't know. I do know, without him finally, Algeria would have suffered much, much more. I think the Algerians see it the same way and bear him no hard feelings. If anything, a bit of gratitude perhaps. He saw the error of his ways and he rectified his behaviour.

    Posted 2 years ago on 21 May 2010 11:25 #

  41. Anti Pakistan
    Member

    Mirza Ghalib

    There is man in our history Tipu Sultan

    his friend was Napoleon, It seem French are good to Muslims in History

    Posted 2 years ago on 21 May 2010 11:28 #

  42. haider3
    member

    Do you know what, psycho, Napoleon himself was hugely impressed by Islam which he got to know when he went to Egypt. Had he lived on a bit longer, he might have even become a Muslim. The people ruling France today are not French in the true sense of the word. Hence all this anti-Muslim moves on their part. They serve another master.

    Posted 2 years ago on 21 May 2010 11:31 #

  43. Anti Pakistan
    Member

    Mirza Ghalib
    Good to know Mirza Ghalib

    French don't believe in Jew and Christian, They beleive that they are the forefather of Mathematics.

    Posted 2 years ago on 21 May 2010 11:32 #

  44. haider3
    member

    Excellent remark on the French there. And about the great Tipu Sultan, in that last ill-fated battle of his, he was let down by forces within and without, the latter being the French. They can change like the April weather. But they did have a few fine mathematicians, true, including the Cogito ergo sum person, Descartes. Also about the French, they think their language is the greatest thing around. Well, at least it's better than English. and that their cooking can't be matched. That's because they've never tasted anything coming out of our own cuisine.

    Posted 2 years ago on 21 May 2010 13:00 #

  45. haider3
    member

    P.S. Sorry psycho. There was irony in your forefathers of mathematics which I failed to comment on. Among the great forefathers were, of course, our own Muslim forefathers. But never expect the West, French or otherwise, to acknowledge the Islamic sources on which quite a bit of their own present science is based, including medicine.

    Posted 2 years ago on 21 May 2010 13:10 #

  46. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    Mao and Chuian Lia were not democratic leaders, but they contributed comendable servies to the Chinese nation.

    Posted 2 years ago on 21 May 2010 14:09 #

  47. barackosama
    Member

    Also Arabian Gulf kings and emirs have been great to their people.

    Posted 2 years ago on 21 May 2010 14:59 #

  48. semirza
    Moderator

    Mao and Chuian Lia were Revolutionaries. Arabian Gulf Kings were made and slotted in as a reward for helping colonials towards a downfall of Khilafat in 1924 (Turkey). To permanently plug all vents so that Khilafat will never emerge again they are treated as a royal linage but are doing fine for their subjects.

    Posted 2 years ago on 21 May 2010 15:07 #

  49. haider3
    member

    If I may, among the best leaders in recent times, I'd like to mention Dr Mahatir Mohammad of Malaysia, President Ahmadinejad of Iran and Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey who went so far recently as to tell Ms. Merkel, OK, call us when you're ready, after Turkey had spent years running after Germany for EU-membership.

    All three above came in through the electoral process. In fact, I think, after Chavez in Venezuela, Erdogan is the most oft elected political leader on the planet.

    Posted 2 years ago on 21 May 2010 15:32 #

  50. mylove-Pakistan
    Member

    I think now the west has realized that democracy is needed in Pakistan. The don't need any dictator in Pakistan. They will support democracy and as a result we will have democracy.

    I will personally do whatever I can, against dictatorship in Pakistan. We need a good democracy in Pakistan....

    Posted 2 years ago on 21 May 2010 15:44 #

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