msohail and haris khan:
if i may make some suggestions about how to get our people out of this era of darkness and back on the track of progression.
PKPolitics Discuss » Future of Pakistan
How to Save our People from The Heart of Darkness
(44 posts)-
Posted 2 years ago on 31 Aug 2009 13:31 #
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msohail83
MemberI'll repeat my post here -
How about the oppressed rural masses living under feudal system. First and foremost thing would be education for them before any radical changes. So, should we go and shoot all the feudal lords along with politicians and military generals?? Bloody revolution?
Posted 2 years ago on 31 Aug 2009 13:33 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
Please! .. by all means .. do!
Posted 2 years ago on 31 Aug 2009 13:38 # -
msohail:
i will return shortly for this pasandeeda topic.
Posted 2 years ago on 31 Aug 2009 13:38 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
I believe if we ALL back the "JUSTICE SYSTEM", that WE ALL agree on, then feudals should not be able to harm our progress.
There are two things we need;
1) Loyal, honest leader
2) Loyal, credible, honest, Finance manager
Everything will start falling in its place, itself
Posted 2 years ago on 31 Aug 2009 13:40 # -
msohail83
MemberFrom the current lot of politicians/leaders I don't find any loyal and sincere folks. All are a bunch of looters and plunderers living a luxurious life on stolen tax payers' money!
Where will you find those honest leaders from?
Posted 2 years ago on 31 Aug 2009 13:42 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
I am a Muslim!
I believe in Qazi Hussain Ahmad, Munawwar Hassan. I also believe in Imran Khan. I believe in the people who are standing with Islam
I believe in the "unity" of ALL religious political parties. I believe, that brought harmony and peace among ALL people in Pakistan. It stopped sectarian violence
Having said that, I also believe, we should have RAZOR SHARP accountability before next general elections. That will establish credibility of some, as well as clean up our system from ALL non-credible people, criminals, traitors, etc etc
Posted 2 years ago on 31 Aug 2009 14:00 # -
khurram Zaman
MemberOreil and Haris,
Here are the sayings of Hazrat Muhammad SAWW,Take out from the world as you need and leave the rest of it..
(more or less the same meaning,Allah forgive me any mistake)..
I think that muslims shud have the same strategy to have and go with the things we needed and shud refrain from the things we dont need..
This would be a good domestic and foreign policy to go with...
As the others have many,not needed for the man kind but just a desire..Thanx
Posted 2 years ago on 31 Aug 2009 14:33 # -
msohail83
MemberZaman
"go with the things we needed and shud refrain from the things we dont need.."
Would you like to elaborate more on this point? Spell out what in your opinion is the need and what's not?
Posted 2 years ago on 31 Aug 2009 14:39 # -
msohail:
so what were we talking about?
practical measures to get our people out of darkness, yes?
Posted 2 years ago on 31 Aug 2009 15:14 # -
msohail83
MemberYes ........
Posted 2 years ago on 31 Aug 2009 15:17 # -
the history books tell of underground movement by the French in France called 'the Resistence' against Nazis occupying France. books also tell of movements in hundreds of countries, underground movements, that kept their religions alive in the face of acute political pressures.
so i am asking why can such covert movements not be in existence in rural areas across Pak? teaching and guiding the rurals to get back the rights that have been taken from them by ther oppressive feudals?
Posted 2 years ago on 31 Aug 2009 15:23 # -
msohail83
MemberThat's a good point.
Agitating the public could fetch good results. We all witnessed recently concluded judicial movement which proved that masses will support any JUST cause.
Posted 2 years ago on 31 Aug 2009 15:27 # -
revolution is needed in Pak. and is needed to begin in the rural working class as this is the class with the most to lose/gain, the most jazba, they are closer to reality and nature and if swayed in the right direction, they can sterr the politics of the country. they are in the majority population wise, they out number the feudals, the elites, the rich all put together.
so im advocating all efforts for change and revolution to be focused on the rural class
Posted 2 years ago on 31 Aug 2009 15:29 # -
msohail83
MemberPolice and politicians/feudals work hand in hand. The moment they smell anything anti-establishment/status quo, they'll crush you by force!
Posted 2 years ago on 31 Aug 2009 15:35 # -
yes. the JUST cause needs to be kept alive and carried out within the rurals, by a movement of like-mindeds that are willing to focus their efforts with them.
no other class can make this happen.
Posted 2 years ago on 31 Aug 2009 15:35 # -
msohail:
right you are! so the point would be not to allow anyone to smell anything.
this method has been carried out hundreds of times through out history, in many areas of the world.
Posted 2 years ago on 31 Aug 2009 15:38 # -
msohail83
MemberHow do you make it successful in sparsely populated rural areas as compared to densely populated urban area?
Posted 2 years ago on 31 Aug 2009 15:41 # -
do you go to rural areas frequently?
Posted 2 years ago on 31 Aug 2009 15:42 # -
msohail83
MemberI have only visited once. You can educate me more on that?
Posted 2 years ago on 31 Aug 2009 15:43 # -
forget the densely populated urban areas. i feel (and please if i am wrong, correct me) the urbanites are too busy in accumulating their wealth and careers.... on the whole.
the ones that are in most need are the rurals. the rurals live densely also. whole extended families live in same villages. most are identifiable in having same thought processes, same daily requirements and same lack of everything.
the underground method that i am advocating is well suited to the way the rurals operate. secrecy is ingrained in their daily lives, in one way or another. if this trait of keeping secrets could be used to empower them, why not utilize it?
Posted 2 years ago on 31 Aug 2009 15:51 # -
there is a right time and place for bloody revolution.
the masses in the rural heartlands all over Pak are in no mental state to be the force behind a bloody revolution. Pak is not moving forward because the majority of its population are under-nourished, under-educated, not understood and not bothered about by the leaders. so it is useless and futile to expect the MNAs to achieve anything. the elites, politicians, wealthy are in the minority continuing the status quo and continuing the looting of the country.
the hearts and minds of the rurals need to be fed with self-ghairat first. they need to understand their basic human rights. they need to be reminded of their collective strength. they need to be persuaded that the lives of successive generations are in their hands, not the hands of the likes of Zard-Ari, PM Guillotine, non-Shareef bros and familial dynasties.
Posted 2 years ago on 31 Aug 2009 15:55 # -
msohail83
MemberWell, you see in this day of electronic media and fluid information only urban areas get attention, and I believe media played a very positive and powerful role in propagating the message during judicial movement. You can not totally rule out the urban areas.
Are you suggesting going w/o the media?
Posted 2 years ago on 31 Aug 2009 16:01 # -
msoahil:
do you think that a fairer judicial system is going to help the working class break free from its conditions of poverty and misery?
the judicial movement will effect those that can afford to fight cases on the whole. the needs and requirements of the rurals will not be met by the CJ and his reinstatement i'm afraid.
we need an education system that will work and health care provision now.
we also need to change the mindset of the rurals from down-trodden slave mentality to self-believing human beings with a stake in their own destiny.
Posted 2 years ago on 31 Aug 2009 16:06 # -
the ones doing this work would be from the urban areas. educated, open to change and revolutionary in thought.
Posted 2 years ago on 31 Aug 2009 16:07 # -
the media would not be required for this movement.
politicians progress in their careers via networking and personal links. we need to network with the rurals, identify the stronger leader-types that would further the campaign. but whilst keeping the movement underground until the right time.
Posted 2 years ago on 31 Aug 2009 16:10 # -
msohail83
MemberNo, my point was to adopt the same method used during the judicial movement and utilizing media to accomplish the goal?
Posted 2 years ago on 31 Aug 2009 16:10 # -
you're missing the point.
what i'm advocating would not work with the media. the point is to change hearts and minds, the media is the last thing that we would need.
the lawyers, advocates, judges were already of the same thinking. they needed the media to create a frenzy and force the reinstatement.
the work i'm talking about needs to be kept underground as those in power would crush at the first signs of threat to their hegemony.
Posted 2 years ago on 31 Aug 2009 16:15 # -
msohail83
MemberTrue! I went to college with a few kids that came from small villages. Those are the people that could be used to network with in their respective areas to spread the message as they know the importance of education and could be great help to emancipate their ppl.
Posted 2 years ago on 31 Aug 2009 16:16 # -
now you're cooking!
Posted 2 years ago on 31 Aug 2009 16:19 # -
msohail83
Memberlolz
I agree with you totally on the need for such movement but it'll require a lot of dedication and determination. I'm willing to volunteer for such project.
Posted 2 years ago on 31 Aug 2009 16:22 # -
i have your email from the google group. may i use it to call upon you when i'm in the field?
Posted 2 years ago on 31 Aug 2009 16:27 # -
msohail83
Membersure!
Are you already working on something?
Posted 2 years ago on 31 Aug 2009 16:28 # -
yes. every one related to me is from the rural class in Pakistan. the dichotomy is that in the West we live as the elites do in Pak. but many of our relatives are suffering as we all know the rurals suffer.
we need to re-dress the equation and balance it out, don't you think?
kick the elites where it hurts the most and do it in a way where they do not even see the boot coming!!
Posted 2 years ago on 31 Aug 2009 16:31 # -
msohail83
MemberYehi to hamari khud gharzi ka saboot hai. Bahir aa ke log naray bazi bohat kartay hain magar jab kuch karnay ka waqt aata hai sab chup kar jatay hain.
Posted 2 years ago on 31 Aug 2009 16:40 # -
colonial rulers all began efforts to change the mind-set of those they were/are occupying. we can learn from their techniques and turn our masses against their abusive masters!!
Posted 2 years ago on 31 Aug 2009 16:47 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
What the shEEP?!?!! Underground movement?
Do you guys think a Muslim is afraid of being destroyed by force?
Shame! on you guys.
Come in-front of the enemy and FIGHT like a Muslim
Posted 2 years ago on 31 Aug 2009 22:40 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
At this time, a public "tehreek" is needed. A campaign of awareness.
Spread the word, gather people, bring awareness, unite for one purpose. That is what should be done. It doesn't require going into shameful hiding
Posted 2 years ago on 31 Aug 2009 22:42 # -
amin1924
memberHaris Khan,
Everything got to start from some point, you can't have such force at beginning level. To develop culture and leadership initially underground work is fine. Prophet Muhammad pbuh kept his dawah for first 3 years in Makkah in secret, message wasn't open in society.
Posted 2 years ago on 31 Aug 2009 22:52 # -
we can only safe ppl from the disappointment and darkness by praying for the good.
trying to step ahead for the good.
and moreover ,by trying to get rid off all the looters ,cheaters ,smugglers ,feudals ,mill owners ,sardars who wanna eat Pakistan like an apple pie.Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 4:47 # -
Fahim23
MemberI am of the opinion that the Problem is in our attitudes. People have to equip themselves with necessary skills to get rid of thr problems. If they are vulnerable different groups with little power and organization from within or outside will keep exploiting them. It is like a universally accepted law - you are weak you will suffer. Things have gone so far in our society that now no one is really left strong and every one is being exploited. Everyone is after each other. I'm sad but also kinda glad we have reached at this point. Sad because despite many examples and opportunities we couldn't sort out what do we lack and glad because now I believe it won't take us long to reverse our direction towards highway of prosperity.
changing attitudes does not take a rocket science - it just requires human determination, will. Here comes the human spirit - those who have it and can afford it should help and are helping their fellow human beings equip with necessary tools i.e., Education and Awareness.
Once we do that we will be able to save ourselves from all threats. Rulers always reflect the society - they are not descended from skies.
ps: AOA and WB Oriel! Good to see u back!
Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 8:35 # -
Thanks Fahim, good to be back and good to be reading your posts.
Do come online more often if you can, your posts are always common-sensical.... a much needed ingredient!
Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 11:44 # -
zingaro
MemberI agree with Fahim and would like to add something in it. Everyone of us belongs to some constituency and we know that every time we have the same old faces or their kins in the elections. Every time we vote to the same old monsters who remain busy in looting us, while we know that there are also sincere people in the constituency who if supported and voted, may be good to represent us. But no body bothers to bring or support those people. Here we lack the self determination and power to analyze and support the truth. If we spread this message among our masses that whatever is there, we have to vote only sincere reps, change will start to lead us to a better Pakistan. The sincere person can be anyone from the constituency.
Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 11:55 # -
Fahim23
Member@Oriel
Thanks again
@zingaro
Our society is deliberately De-politicized with great efforts. Word politics is considered "abuse" - this is not peculiar to our society - but especially in pakistan a politician is one of the most sell out figure of our society. However, that doesn't mean that all five fingers are equal - even in our terrible times we have good politicians working for the people.
Beside, we expect that leadership emerges from lower middle class or lower class. Which is practically "Impossible". Throughout history it is always elite of the society which holds the reigns. What we need to do is to strengthen, equip and skill the public (who are and will be at receiving end) against that elite class through vital weapons like Education and Awareness.
Leadership from middle class will only emerge when the gap between poor and rich is significantly reduced. Which is not the case in Pakistan. Right now in every elections we will have to handle the current type of politicians (which is like IMO 70/30% Bad/good). We also have to understand that if we let our democratic process continue within two three terms we can easily reach the benchmark of 50/50 which is the case in India! and they are doing much better than us!
Education will always remain the key for our success. And Education wonderfully is still very in-expensive in our country. We need to exploit it and probably at this stage we can't assure employment but we can definitely induce "Awareness" and change our attitudes positive through education.
Posted 2 years ago on 02 Sep 2009 4:04 #
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