PKPolitics Discuss » Social and Cultural Issues

I am Muslim!

(249 posts)
  1. rocketrevolt
    Blocked

    I am Muslim.I believe in there is One creator and whatever written in Quran is Truth and represents a way of Life.Whatever Prophet said was truth and an example of way of life and he was the last messenger of God.Whatever Quran prohibits I Submit to it and whatever Quran allows I submit to it.I would never try to change or misinterpret what Quran says.I would never allow what Quran prohibits.I believe in Islamic way of life and Laws must be derived from Quran in the state that has chosen that way of life.

    Is that too difficult for a Muslim to say?They can not say these few lines but can write extensive articles on do's and dont's of Islam?

    Or is it too much to ask for from Muslims?If so then you seriously need to dig deep inside you!What are you and what you really want?

    :)

    ps.Is that too difficult to say "I am Muslim" even if you live in states?

    Posted 2 years ago on 06 Oct 2009 23:49 #
  2. Asli Moulana
    Blocked

    lol

    Apparently it is my friend.

    You most of the Muslims you encounter on the streets or in the Masjids or gatherings will have no problems in agreeing to your statement for it defines them too.

    But on the internet you will see a different breed of Muslims who dont believe in Allah and His Prophet yet continuously profess to be Muslims and have no idea what the Deen actually is.

    Its a sad state of affairs.

    Posted 2 years ago on 06 Oct 2009 23:55 #
  3. amin1924
    member

    Alhamdulilah, Muslim.

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Oct 2009 1:29 #
  4. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    I am a Muslim. I adhere to Quran-o-Hadees. I ACCEPT!! ALL that Islam allows for me. I REJECT!! ALL that Islam rejects.

    AlHamdulillah!!!, I! am!! a Muslim!!

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Oct 2009 3:45 #
  5. Red-Scorpion
    Blocked

    @crocodile

    ""I would never allow what Quran prohibits.""

    >>>

    What if you are living in a western/non-muslim country and someone is drinking alchohal in front of you, wouldn't you allow him to do so ? and would you force him to accept what you think is wrong is wrong for him/her too ?
    OR
    What if you are living in Pakistan and a non-muslim starts eating pork in front of you, will you force him to stop eating pork as it's haram according to Quran ?

    =======================================================

    ""I believe in Islamic way of life and Laws must be derived from Quran in the state that has chosen that way of life.""

    >>>

    Dude, states can't be run on individuals whims and desires, what you believe can be right for you, but there's no way you can force your beliefs on others !

    ========================================================

    """Is that too difficult to say "I am Muslim" even if you live in states? """

    >>>

    I don't think there's any law in States which curtails religious freedom there, tell us if there's any !

    ========================================================

    BTW I'm a secularist and for me religious beliefs are one's personal matters and there should be complete religious freedom i.e. one can be a Muslim/Christian/Hindu/atheist/agnostic and still can be a good citizen of state !

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Oct 2009 4:56 #
  6. SufiSoul
    Member

    Alhamdulillah Muslim here.............

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Oct 2009 5:01 #
  7. SufiSoul
    Member

    BTW I'm a secularist and for me religious beliefs are one's personal matters and there should be complete religious freedom i.e. one can be a Muslim/Christian/Hindu/atheist/agnostic and still can be a good citizen of state ! ......

    All such qualities to be a good citizen of state were borrowed from religion/Devine books.
    No such concepts were their/ever possible besides this divine knowledge.
    All the versions of life were derived out of these religious beliefs and devine morale values..
    NOW these these versions claiming to set aside religion which is their own source of Inspirations.HOW FUNNY.

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Oct 2009 5:12 #
  8. rocketrevolt
    Blocked

    I forgot Bhangis cant comprehend on their own.So I have to word it for them.

    "I would never allow in my person(for myself) what Quran prohibits"

    that makes sense now?

    Having said it,when it comes to way of life it no longer remains the personal matter in a state that has adopted a particular way of life.The same person me would be responsible to obey the Law of the state to the fullest according to that way of life.Now if you are Pakistani passport holder,what the cover reads-"Islamic republic of Pakistan"? Do you even realize what that means? Do you translate it as "Islamic Republic of Bhangis,Pakistan" Or "Secular Republic of Bhangis,Pakistan?" or even just "Pakistan"?

    If not then according to What/which thing/book the way of life would be decided for "Islamic republic of Pakistan",A book written by Richard Dawkins,charles darwin,karl Marx or Quran?

    An example from your master Bhangi state-USA, I would give of Clinton.An ordinary Bhangi might get away with extra marital relationship but did that go well for Clinton over there?Personal life is no longer personal life when it becomes the matter of state.And then again the question of way of life would come for that state.So my questions were very precise in other post.

    Another point to be noted is that I have hardly used the word "force" or fatwa about someone being non-muslim in my posts but under the Bhang's influence,Bhangis see it in my all posts.That surprises me,NOT!

    :)

    ps.jjkhan,its more to be seen there!

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Oct 2009 5:33 #
  9. SufiSoul
    Member

    RS,

    Religion is the source of each and every Morale value/Good Deeds.
    Hazrat Adam till Hazrat Muhammad SAWW only religion imported Morale values and good Deeds.
    Than Re-Imported by secularists/athiests/etc..
    Or tell me the books/Sources for the athiests OR secularists to be a good citizen..

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Oct 2009 5:34 #
  10. Red-Scorpion
    Blocked

    @SufiSoul

    """Religion is the source of each and every Morale value/Good Deeds.
    Hazrat Adam till Hazrat Muhammad SAWW only religion imported Morale values and good Deeds."""

    >>>

    I really don't think so, I don't think you know about Greek philosophers, otherwise you haven't commented that !

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Oct 2009 5:38 #
  11. Pak Truth
    Member

    Factious Video – A try to tarnish Army Image(2 posts)

    http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/factious-video-%e2%80%93-a-try-to-tarnish-army-image

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Oct 2009 5:41 #
  12. SufiSoul
    Member

    RS,
    Come with your arguments and you will know how much knowledge i have abt greek philosiphers..
    I am sure you dont know abt Imam Ghazali's answers to greek philosphers....

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Oct 2009 5:41 #
  13. Red-Scorpion
    Blocked

    @SufiSoul

    ""Or tell me the books/Sources for the athiests OR secularists to be a good citizen.. ""

    >>>

    Well, for me a good citizen needs to follow rules/laws of the state !
    It's not necessary that a religious person will always be a good citizen too, an atheist can be good citizen while a religious person can be murderous barbarian like Talibans !

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Oct 2009 5:42 #
  14. Pak Truth
    Member

    Most of the Taliban are even dnt know the A B C of Islam

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Oct 2009 5:45 #
  15. Red-Scorpion
    Blocked

    @SufiSoul

    ""I am sure you dont know abt Imam Ghazali's answers to greek philosphers.... ""

    >>>

    Really I don't know :(
    Who's Imam Ghazali, tell me more about him !
    Was he contemporary of Socrates or Plato or Airstotle ?
    Was he able to convert Greeks to Islam ?

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Oct 2009 5:45 #
  16. SufiSoul
    Member

    I was talking morale character values not traffic rules..
    Let me know the source of honesty/truthfulness/..
    what is the source of inspirations for non-religious person.
    They just Import these charicters and try to establish new life style...if not than you should come up with ur arguments pls..

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Oct 2009 5:46 #
  17. Red-Scorpion
    Blocked

    @SufiSoul

    """Most of the Taliban are even dnt know the A B C of Islam """

    >>>

    LOLzzz
    Can you say this in front of Talibans ?
    Certainly you can't, and that's my point !
    Religious beliefs should be a personal matter !

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Oct 2009 5:47 #
  18. IronGuy
    Blocked

    budhism is also atheist philosophy and well repsected all over the world

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Oct 2009 5:48 #
  19. SufiSoul
    Member

    RS,

    Imam ghazali topic is reserved for you to answer.But first come up with your(Athiest) source of Inspirations.
    Don't deviate the discussion here pls.

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Oct 2009 5:48 #
  20. Red-Scorpion
    Blocked

    Well, nobody claims that all religious beliefs are BS !
    If secularists/atheists have accepted certain ethical teachings of different religions at all, then what's wrong in it ?

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Oct 2009 5:49 #
  21. SufiSoul
    Member

    RS,
    OK tell me if any religion borrows any of the teachings of the athiests/secularists.
    I can claim 100% morale values are imported from religion.
    Tell me if seculars/Athiests exported any such values to religion.

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Oct 2009 5:52 #
  22. Red-Scorpion
    Blocked

    @SufiSoul

    Please go and read something about Atheism and Secularism then you might not be asking such a foolish question !

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Oct 2009 5:54 #
  23. Red-Scorpion
    Blocked

    @SufiSoul

    I've not received answers to my following questions

    """"@SufiSoul

    ""I am sure you dont know abt Imam Ghazali's answers to greek philosphers.... ""

    >>>

    Really I don't know :(
    Who's Imam Ghazali, tell me more about him !
    Was he contemporary of Socrates or Plato or Airstotle ?
    Was he able to convert Greeks to Islam ? """

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Oct 2009 5:55 #
  24. IronGuy
    Blocked

    moral values come from human nature not religion, which is only from one person. Even within religion, religious people can't decide what's moral and what's not

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Oct 2009 5:55 #
  25. SufiSoul
    Member

    RS and Iron Guy,

    I leave this thread open to the rest of members to read and reach the point..
    No need to discuss further with you guys...

    MY TAKE IS,

    RELIGION IS THE ONLY SOURCE TO EXPORT MORALE VALUES TO ALL OTHER SYSTEMS OF LIVING(ATHIESTS/SECULARS) BUT AT THE SAME TIME THEY WANT SET ASIDE RELIGION ALTHOUGH RELIGION HAS THE ROOM TO ACCOMODATE ALL THE RELGIONS.BUT MADER PIDDER AZADI IS THE ONLY THING NOT ALLOWED BY RELIGION BUT ALLOWED IN SECULAR/ATHIESTS GROUPS.THIS DIFFERENCE IS CALLED AS SHAITANIYAT.

    REGARDS,

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Oct 2009 6:01 #
  26. IronGuy
    Blocked

    moral values have no relation with being religious

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Oct 2009 6:02 #
  27. Red-Scorpion
    Blocked

    LOLzzz

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Oct 2009 6:07 #
  28. amin1924
    member

    What is moral and what is not moral, how do you define?

    IronGay & Red-Sorpion

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Oct 2009 6:09 #
  29. IronGuy
    Blocked

    jj khan, take out your dictionary

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Oct 2009 6:18 #
  30. Revivalist
    member

    Ironguy & RS,

    Without God there can be no rational basis for morality. God as a concept is not subjective therefore having God as basis for morality makes them binding and objective. The following statement by Richard Taylor, an eminent ethicist, correctly concludes,

    “Contemporary writers in ethics, who blithely discourse upon moral right and wrong and moral obligation without any reference to religion, are really just weaving intellectual webs from thin air; which amounts to saying that they discourse without meaning.”

    Regards

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Oct 2009 6:24 #
  31. IronGuy
    Blocked

    Thanks RS. I am not offended by it even though I am not gay. My moral values do not require me to abuse gays or use their labels as curse words

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Oct 2009 6:25 #
  32. Red-Scorpion
    Blocked

    @Revivalist

    ""Without God there can be no rational basis for morality.""

    >>>

    Pls explain how !

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Oct 2009 6:25 #
  33. Red-Scorpion
    Blocked

    @SufiSoul

    I've not received answers to my following questions

    """"@SufiSoul

    ""I am sure you dont know abt Imam Ghazali's answers to greek philosphers.... ""

    >>>

    Really I don't know :)))
    Who's Imam Ghazali, tell me more about him !
    Was he contemporary of Socrates or Plato or Airstotle ?
    Was he able to convert Greeks to Islam ? """

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Oct 2009 6:26 #
  34. Red-Scorpion
    Blocked

    @Revivalist

    """God as a concept is not subjective """

    >>>

    Care to explain how !

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Oct 2009 6:27 #
  35. IronGuy
    Blocked

    Revivalist, well-being of the world is the ultimate goal of all moral values. Selfish goals like winning god's love or enjoying heaven after death can't be the basis of morality. They are two opposites.

    Also moral values are not everything in life. There is more to life than just moral values. If "god" cared about moral values so much everyone would be born nice so even "god" has other plans

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Oct 2009 6:30 #
  36. amin1924
    member

    IronGuy,

    What is your frame of reference to define what is moral and what isn't?

    One person's perception of well-being can be another person's sick-being.

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Oct 2009 6:37 #
  37. IronGuy
    Blocked

    jj khan, i agree with you and that's why if "religion" defines moral values then there are as many religions as there are people in this world

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Oct 2009 6:40 #
  38. Revivalist
    member

    Rs & Ironguy,

    "According to Paul Kurtz God is the only conceptual anchor that transcends human subjectivity, so without God there is NO RATIONAL BASIS FOR OBJECTIVE MORALITY. Therefore if in a secular society God is divorced from these issues then, in His absence, there are only two possible alternative conceptual foundations.
    1. Social pressures
    2. Evolution
    Evolution is problematic, in that it dictates that we are just accidental by products of a lengthy evolutionary process, and that we acquire moral understanding gradually. Michael Ruse, a philosopher of science from the University of Guelph, writes,
    “Morality is a biological adaptation no less than are hands and feet and teeth… Morality is just an aid to survival and reproduction . . . and any deeper meaning is illusory.”
    In other words we are just animals, and animals have no moral paradigm. When we see a tiger chase a deer eventually catching it and then ripping its flesh, we do not say that the tiger is acting immorally, rather we are saying that it was acting in accordance to its nature. Evolution as as a basis for objective morals is without foundation because according to this perspective we change our morality as we change in nature.

    Social pressures provide no basis for objective morality as they change with time and place. Any reader in social science and social constructionism will easily conclude the relative nature of social pressures.
    So without God there can be no rational basis for morality. God as a concept is not subjective therefore having God as basis for morality makes them binding and objective".

    I hope its clear now!

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Oct 2009 6:44 #
  39. IronGuy
    Blocked

    Einstein:
    "The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this."

    Richard Dawkins:
    1 Atheists can be happy, balanced, moral, and intellectually fulfilled.
    2 Natural selection and similar scientific theories are superior to a "God hypothesis"—the illusion of intelligent design—in explaining the living world and the cosmos.
    3 Children should not be labelled by their parents' religion. Terms like "Catholic child" or "Muslim child" should make people cringe.
    4 Atheists should be proud, not apologetic, because atheism is evidence of a healthy, independent mind

    social pressures can and should provide the basis for morality expecially because they change with time and space

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Oct 2009 6:52 #
  40. Red-Scorpion
    Blocked

    @Revivalist

    Do you know anything other than copy/paste ? :))

    Is Paul Kurtz authority for you :))

    What do you think about following copy/paste from Wiki :))

    """"[edit] Humanist Manifesto II
    Main article: Humanist Manifesto II
    The second Manifesto was written in 1973 by Paul Kurtz and Edwin H. Wilson, and was intended to update and replace the previous one. It begins with a statement that the excesses of Nazism and World War II had made the first seem "far too optimistic", and indicated a more hardheaded and realistic approach in its seventeen-point statement, which was much longer and more elaborate than the previous version. Nevertheless, much of the unbridled optimism of the first remained, with hopes stated that war would become obsolete and poverty would be eliminated.

    Many of the proposals in the document, such as opposition to racism and weapons of mass destruction and support of strong human rights, are fairly uncontroversial, and its prescriptions that divorce and birth control should be legal and that technology can improve life are widely accepted today in much of the Western world. Furthermore, its proposal of an international court has since been implemented. However, in addition to its rejection of supernaturalism, various controversial stances are strongly supported, notably the right to abortion. The general tone of the second Manifesto has been perceived as moving away from sympathy with libertarian socialism toward a more economically neutral stance.

    Initially published with a small number of signatures, the document was circulated and gained thousands more, and indeed the AHA website encourages visitors to add their own name. A provision at the end that the signators do "not necessarily endors[e] every detail" of the document, but only its broad vision, no doubt helped many overcome reservations about attaching their name.

    Among the oft-quoted lines from this 1973 Manifesto are, "No deity will save us; we must save ourselves," and "We are responsible for what we are and for what we will be," both of which present serious difficulties for Christians, and theists in general, due to doctrines of submission to the will of an all-powerful God.

    Another quote is "the battle for humankind's future must be waged and won in the public school classroom by teachers who correctly perceive their role as the proselytizers of a new faith: a religion of humanity that recognizes and respects the spark of what theologians call divinity in every human being." " Utilizing a classroom instead of a pulpit to convey humanist values in whatever subject they teach, regardless of the educational level - preschool day care or large state university."""

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanist_Manifesto

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Oct 2009 6:56 #
  41. Red-Scorpion
    Blocked

    ""Among the oft-quoted lines from this 1973 Manifesto are, "No deity will save us; we must save ourselves," and "We are responsible for what we are and for what we will be," both of which present serious difficulties for Christians, and theists in general, due to doctrines of submission to the will of an all-powerful God."""

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanist_Manifesto

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Oct 2009 7:00 #
  42. rocketrevolt
    Blocked

    This post is by the Muslim for the Muslims and for those Muslims who think they are Muslims by adhering to Atheist Philosophies.Its just an attempt to make such Muslims to reconsider what they really believe in and want to believe in and be clear about it.If they dont want way of life of Islam then stick to the secular way of life but don't mix it with Islamic way of life cause that would only be proving that you are confused and you want other Muslims to be confused as well.

    For Atheists I request Richard Dawkins maybe giving some latest sermon in his 'hujra' so please don't forget to attend it,for he may not cancel your membership for future fatwa hearings against religion in general and against Islam in particular.And for hindus I can say App ki puja paat ka samay howa chahta hey yeh post app ki tapasiya ko bharasht ker sakti hey iss liyeh aap sey shama key saath binti ki jaati hey kay apney parabho key mandap per shoooney-shoooney h-o jaayeh!

    :)

    ps.Bhangis are confused but they cant blame muslims for their confusion after this post...Enough said!

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Oct 2009 7:14 #
  43. Red-Scorpion
    Blocked

    @SufiSoul

    I've not received answers to my following questions

    """"@SufiSoul

    ""I am sure you dont know abt Imam Ghazali's answers to greek philosphers.... ""

    >>>

    Really I don't know :)))
    Who's Imam Ghazali, tell me more about him !
    Was he contemporary of Socrates or Plato or Airstotle ?
    Was he able to convert Greeks to Islam ? ""

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Oct 2009 7:16 #
  44. Revivalist
    member

    RS and Ironguy,

    You need to give credit to the person for what he/she has written, isn’t it? “Is Paul Kurtz authority for you :))” not at all, he is quoted because here what he said was rational. For me as believer the only reference point is Allah (swt) and his messenger (saw). Moreover, I am happy to know that you understand what authority means and wish to know who authority is and reference point for you????

    Besides, I think you guys fail to understand subjective and objective morality and which one is binding and which one is not. Moreover, how would you define morality and with which frame of reference, as been asked by JJK before???

    I believe any discussion we start it will automatically come to the point where we have to decide weather God exist or not, once we resolve the issue rationally we could then agree on other issues i.e. Morality etc. I would love to know your arguments against it, but I would request you to please be precise & rational!!!!

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Oct 2009 7:18 #
  45. Red-Scorpion
    Blocked

    @Revivalist

    """I believe any discussion we start it will automatically come to the point where we have to decide weather God exist or not, once we resolve the issue rationally we could then agree on other issues i.e. Morality etc. I would love to know your arguments against it, but I would request you to please be precise & rational!!!! """

    >>>

    Okay, please tell us if God really exists !
    If it does, how do you know ?

    PS: Please be precise and argue in a logical manner, avoid getting emotional and resort to rants !

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Oct 2009 7:21 #
  46. Revivalist
    member

    RS, as you are also very good in copy/past and wikipedia, why dont you search it there, is it so difficult????

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Oct 2009 7:22 #
  47. Revivalist
    member

    Dear RS,

    Why you always skip things that can cause you problem, let me copy/past it for you again "I would love to know your arguments against it, but I would request you to please be precise & rational!!!! ""

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Oct 2009 7:24 #
  48. Red-Scorpion
    Blocked

    @Revivalist

    ""RS, as you are also very good in copy/past and wikipedia, why dont you search it there, is it so difficult???? ""

    >>>

    LOLzzzz

    O Bhai, it was you who wanted to discuss existence of god, wasn't it you ? :))

    """I believe any discussion we start it will automatically come to the point where we have to decide weather God exist or not, once we resolve the issue rationally we could then agree on other issues i.e. Morality etc. I would love to know your arguments against it, but I would request you to please be precise & rational!!!! """

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Oct 2009 7:25 #
  49. Red-Scorpion
    Blocked

    Okay, please tell us if God really exists !
    If it does, how do you know ?

    PS: Please be precise and argue in a logical manner, avoid getting emotional and resort to rants !

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Oct 2009 7:26 #
  50. Red-Scorpion
    Blocked

    What if I don't believe in god, how will you make me believe in her/him ???

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Oct 2009 7:27 #

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