If this is not American war,then whose it is?

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If this is not American war,then whose it is?

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wantinsaf
Member

$2.29-billion U.S. aid to Pakistan to fight terror
More can be read here:http://www.hindu.com/2010/10/23/stories/2010102356640100.htm

Pakistan's leadership have always kept asking for dollars from US in return of the services they are doing to Americans.

Zardari asking the world to give them dollars so they can fight Alqaeda and Talibans.
ANP urging Americans to provide them aid in return of what they have been doing for US in KPK.
MQM meeting American officials and says US Aid is required for development of Karachi.
The same was during Musharaf's era who brought civil war to Pakistan for the sake of keeping himself in power.

To Pakisatni leadership,this war is all about dollars and power.But after getting out of the power,they cry that foreign policy has failed and Our former Foreign Minister Khurshid Kasuri is a prime example of that who now urges the Govt to change foreign policy.

Americans are bad,so are Talibans.But we are the worst who are letting our country collapse for the sake of dollars.

Posted 1 year ago on 24 Oct 2010 11:52 #
nota
Member

If Kiyani is not a US Army employee then... :-P
US renews bonds with Pak Army

Kiyani: "Don't I look good in that shiny uniform?"

US understates civilian casualties in Pakistan, makes no amends
Kiyani: "Hey, they apologized for the three dead soldiers. What more do you want, you bloody civies! >:-$ "

Pakistani victims of U.S. drone strikes speak out in a new report on increasing civilian casualties in the region

Kiyani: "Oh, hogwash! Here's a study that proves Majority of Pakistanis see US drone attacks “as their liberator”

And speaking of the $2 Billion AIDS infection:
This is less than what Pakistan has already spent: Gilani
Kiyani: "Well the generals and me and not getting short-changed and our Swiss accounts payments are never delayed so who cares? (And why would we care who pays us as long as we get paid in full and in $$$..."

Price of old F-16s, Cobra raised, says Mukhtar
Kiyani: "Put if they charged us the right price it would cut into our commissions. We work these contracts on percentages, not fixed amount."

P.S. This is not directly related but isn't this an admission that politically appointed ambassadors (the timing certainly points to Haqqani) are not working for our interests?
No more political ambassadors: PM
AND why not add 'political ambassadors to be removed with immediate effect'?? If the appointments so far are mistakes, why not correct it??

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Oct 2010 5:18 #
sultanalikhan
Member

@Watinsaf.......you think a war, be it on terror or otherwise, can be fought without spending huge sum of money?

so if Pak govt/army is demanding money they had spent whats wrong with it??

Pak govt may not be an ideal govt but it is also not right to allege whatever it does is sinister and against pakistan.......

I can easily allege you being impressed by Hindu propaganda because in support of your argument you are referring to Hindu newspaper...right?

doesn't that point to an eerie linkage??

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Oct 2010 5:27 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@SultanAliKhan: You'r really worse at maths, aren't you ?

They'v already spent much more than $34 billion dollars (that is Rs. 2,924 billion, which is nearly Rs. 3 trillion), from Pakistan's pocket (public money) for fighting this war for USA/Nato.

How is $2 billion in return from US, that which comes with worse off state level policies which will affect all people of Pakistan in the interest of Pakistan ? How is it in the interest of people of Pakistan ?

Even a mercenary takes half payment before job is started and full payment when its done, in the movies.

At a measly $2 billion, plus worse off state policies, is it worth fighting this war to 'safeguard' interests of 'foreigners' at the expense of;

(1) well-being of local people ?
(2) committing mass scale injustice with local people to 'please' foreigners ?

If USA can't provide money for fighting this war, then the 'mercenaries' in Pakistan should come out straight forward and tell their 'employers' to fight their wars by themselves. Just quickly add to that idea, that USA/Nato may not enter or interfere inside Pakistan without our permission.

Why should Pakistan deplete its state pocket/treasury to fight wars for USA ? Why ? That is our! money, the public's hard earned money. Who the heck are people of Pakistan to spend that money on wars without our consent (i.e., people of Pakistan) ?

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Oct 2010 5:36 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

We don't want Pakistan to fight wars for foreigners.

We don't want Pakistan to spend its own money for fighting wars to safeguard interests of foreigners.

We want that public money to be spent on people of Pakistan.

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Oct 2010 5:44 #
sultanalikhan
Member

@hariskhan.....minus 2 billion will make 34 already spent 32 billion, isn't it?? You see my math is not as bad as you make it out to be....lollllzzzz....besides, something better than nothing, they say......lolzzzzz...

You sound as if you know better than those in govt and even Pak army? As if you have just left that top secret meeting held between US Pentagon and Pak ISI....you know it all, even better than all those secret evils.....lolzz

I am asking why dont you join Zardari's cabinet and pour your "wisdom" on them so as they make wise move in future.....you are wasting your precious time and insurmountable talent up here in this forum where ordinary people like me come for some light chitchat and not heavy bombardment.....lolllzzz

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Oct 2010 5:46 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@SultanAliKhan: You may take life as a joke. You may spend/waste far too much to have 'little', 'meaningless', 'worthless' fun.

That is a mistake. A mistake many Pakistanis' are indulging themselves in. You need to save all those resources, to spend it on constructive initiatives, to achieve something.

If you are a Muslim, and if you are an adult, there's far too much work that needs to be done for us, for our nation to 'recuperate', for Islam to be implemented, for you to waste your precious time in 'having' 'fun'. You need to 'struggle' to 'improve' on 'balancing' or 'minimizing' your urge to have fun. I have already under-taken this same struggle.

If you want to 'have' 'light' 'chit chat', I suggest you to seclude yourself to threads from the 'Chit Chat Gup Shup' category on this forum/community. Don't take part in serious discussions, then. But once you choose to enter 'serious' discussions, then please be! serious. Life is not a joke. Don't 'waste' it.

This forum/community is for serious political discussions which relate to our lives, individually as well as collectively. It is about our! well-being, our! interests, internally and externally. That is far more 'important' than 'having' 'worthless' 'fun'.

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Oct 2010 6:01 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

Video: Balancing religious responsibilities and worldly goal
Quran, Surah: (07) Al-A'raaf
Ayat: #31, #32

03-October-2010
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Source: Youtube Channel: atensari

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Oct 2010 6:08 #
shafiq12
member

sultan ali khan

Any reason for ur favor for evil, i.e Pak government

Why i should support corrupts people, If u support corrupt indirectly it mean u are corrupt,

How can u give us proof, that Pak government is GOOD

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Oct 2010 6:17 #
sultanalikhan
Member

Hariskhan....you keep your views to yourself and spend your precious time the way you see fit....but you have no right to tell me what to do with my time.....where to go for fun and what not to do.......

I will do what pleases me and go where I decide, not you....sooner you get this better it will be for you...

The problem starts when someone puts oneself on a high pedestal and then expects everyone else to follow him...imposing one's opion onto others is called tyranny...

Being serious doesn't mean one starts suffering from constipation and forgets to see things from a funny angle....

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Oct 2010 6:19 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

Video: Struggle between Spirit and Worldly desires
Quran, Surah: (07) Al-A'raaf
Ayah: #175, #176

10-October-2010
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Source: Youtube Channel: atensari

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Oct 2010 6:20 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@SultanAliKhan: Neither am I in the 'position' to 'command' you. Nor am I 'telling' you anything.

I'm 'attempting' to;

(1) 'improve' your 'understanding' of reality, as it is

(2) 'improve' your 'awareness'

(3) 'convey' the 'message' to you that;

(a) 'life is not a joke'
(b) 'life' was not 'gifted' to us by ALLAH ALMIGHTY to be 'wasted'

You are free to make decisions, take actions on your own. I will quickly add here, that life is not limited to 'individual' (self) realm. There is also the 'collective' life. You have the freedom to make decisions, take actions in both those realms of life.

Yet always remember;

(a) 'making' a mistake is not a crime
(b) 'repeating' the same mistake over and over again can be noted as a crime
(c) only you will be responsible for your decisions, actions. Not me. Not any other person.

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Oct 2010 6:23 #
sultanalikhan
Member

Super soldier....firstly I am no supporter of present govt, I am a supporter of Pakistan and any harm done to it affects me as much as it does to you OR any other patriot pakistani....

As for TO give you a proof Pak Govt being good, well, whether you like it or not it has been elected by the people of Pakistan, well, by majority

- secondly President Zardari was voted in by all elected political parties, including religious parties!!!

- PM Gilani was elected unopposed and with consensus

You see the govt did not come from a back door but from the front door in broad day light....and i hope your memory is not that weak not to recall event of only 2 and half years back?

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Oct 2010 6:26 #
sultanalikhan
Member

@hariskhan.....please stop IMPROVEMENT project on poor me....

just a piece of advice:
If you spend half as much time on yourself as you spend on others improvement it will be better for everyone...and we will see a IMPROVED YOU!!!!

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Oct 2010 6:30 #
toamin
member

actually the govt came through back door, back channel known as NRO brokered through UK/US (mark grant lylle & condaliza rice)

secondly it is not a majority govt, representing less than 10% of population of pakistan-

we need to get out of these rhetorics-

respectfully

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Oct 2010 6:32 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@SultanAliKhan: I spend much time each day in 'improving' myself in more ways than one, in 'improving' my 'understanding' of what is happening around me.

I have already undertaken that struggle. Have you ?

I will stop.

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Oct 2010 6:32 #
sultanalikhan
Member

@Salam.....whatever available means for democracy existing in Pakistan, the current govt came in thru those....that is a fact.

Secondly, do you think those in opposition (except for Imran Khan) are any better than PPP govt?? Look at Karachi, look at Lahore, look at Peshawar and you shall see what I mean.....

I will love to see a better alternative if you could suggest one...

I respect your views and I too intend no disrespect....

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Oct 2010 6:38 #
shafiq12
member

sultan ali khan

I am a supporter of Pakistan and any harm done to it affects me as much as it does to you any other patriot pakistani....

What is vision behind ur to support Pakistan, What do u think that supporting Pakistan (i.e) a Piece of Land which is Materialism, will give u respect in the world, Or u can rule the world by supporting Pakistan

can u clear me Why should i support Pakistan,

Why should i not support the way of Prophet, by which is bring peace in the World i.e Islam

As for give you a proof Pak Govt being good, well, whether you like it or not it has been elected by the people of Pakistan, well, by majority

- secondly President Zardari was voted in by all elected political parties, including religious parties!!!

- PM Gilani was elected unopposed and with consensus

Yes u know that majority of People want evil, that's why majority of people will go to hell,

So you mean we can completely trust on the majority of people, Is this how u judge people

Can u clear me?

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Oct 2010 6:40 #
sultanalikhan
Member

@hariskhan.....good for you what you have written about your self-improvement program....keep on it, as i see lots of work needs to be done....a long way to go indeed!!!

the question that you have asked me in the end of your post, I choose not to respond because i hate when being patronized......

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Oct 2010 6:41 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@SultanAliKhan: Don't even 'dare' to 'tell' me what to do and what not to do after that little speech of yours. Keep! it.

I can laugh on your last words i.e., a person who doesn't struggle to improve himself is 'telling' me what to do.

Sheer! hypocr|sy.

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Oct 2010 6:44 #
toamin
member

SAK,

i just wanted to comment on those two facts

1- benazir/zardari coming through back door channel/deal
2- no majority, less than 10% of population voted for them

both of these points run contrary to so called 'democratic principles'

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Oct 2010 6:44 #
sultanalikhan
Member

@Super Soldier...i am not on a mission to garner support for Pakistan....i have given you my reasons, if you like them good, and if you dont, well, you have every right to your opinion....

I love Pakistan because it has given me everything, shelter, food, self respect, sense of belonging, education so on and so forth.....

I am not like you who puts himself on such a high place from where he can issue fatwa against majority going to hell.....well done soldier.....

I will abide by the existing system of the land, and that is right way of looking at things, at least from a civilized perspective!!!

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Oct 2010 6:49 #
sultanalikhan
Member

@Salam....if the remaining 90% voters, as you claim, did not vote at the time of electing political leaders then they have no right to cry now or go against the govt wrecking havoc now.....that is my point...

If majority of people (as you put it) did not adopt to democratic way of picking leaders at the time of election then they should not demand or even expect democracy in its true form.....they let the looters/plunderers in because of their indifference or simple laziness now they should reap what they had helped sow....

it is as simple as this, isn't it??

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Oct 2010 6:57 #
sultanalikhan
Member

@hariskhan....hahahaha, hypocrisy at its best...

you don't get tired of telling others what to do but when given a doze of your own medicine by someone else you felt offended and bent on going helter-skelter....poor baby...........lolllzzzz

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Oct 2010 7:04 #
toamin
member

SAK,

my idea here is to invite you to investigate the 10% claim through election commission data, why not analyze it?

why 90% downtrodden people have no right?
who made these game rules?

why not we do what 90% demand?

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Oct 2010 7:33 #
sultanalikhan
Member

Salam...ok for argument sake, i accept your views...

but will you mind telling me the solution as to how it can be achieved where 100% or 90% choice of people can be assured??

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Oct 2010 7:50 #
toamin
member

Thanks SAK

Jumping to solution without proper diagnosis would raise many questions.

I am only trying to comment on some of the common myths that people do not scrutinize such as democracy, majority, lesser evil, higher evil, compromise, only way, if not x then y, democracy is the best revenge, if we don't kill one brother then whole family would be dead etc etc...

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Oct 2010 7:57 #
sultanalikhan
Member

@Salam....I got your point loud and clear.

Am still waiting for the solution you got??

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Oct 2010 8:02 #
toamin
member

SAK

thanks again, but what is the problem? i mean solution for what?

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Oct 2010 8:08 #
shafiq12
member

sultan

U support Pakistan because it provide u shelter, I think u live in Imagination, How a peace of Land can provide u shelter, U think Pakistan is god, as the their are many god in old Egyptian mythologies,The old egyptian also made many god, Like god of water, god shelter etc I can't understand what u are saying, What actually u mean that Pakistan provide shelter,

Ask to those who are living in Tribal areas, How pakistan is providing Shelter to them from drones Attack,

Can u please elaborate,

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Oct 2010 8:33 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@super soldier: He's come to this forum to have fun, to have 'light' 'chit chat'. Don't disturb him :D

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Oct 2010 10:17 #
sultanalikhan
Member

@Super soldier....you sound (figuratively speaking) like from a different planet, and I have always difficulties in communicating with species of the other world....

however, taking your own venomous assertion that Pakistan is a piece of land, then tell me how can "Pakistan" be blamed for miseries inflicted on people living in tribal area?

are you implying now Pakistan is a human body???

pay attention to hariskhan's advice, he is the wise man of this century....only in his mind that is......lolllzzzzz)

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Oct 2010 11:05 #
sultanalikhan
Member

@Salam....the problem?
well, the problem is how change for the good governance in Pakistan could be brought.....

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Oct 2010 11:06 #
shafiq12
member

Sultan Ali Khan

It is written in the pages of history

You said=

i love Pakistan because it has given me everything, shelter, food, self respect, sense of belonging, education so on and so forth.....

U think pakistan has given u everything, How can u explain how a piece of land can give u Shelter, Food and Self Respect, U have made pakistan more than a God

Because it's not the attribute of Pakistan,

It's the attribute of Allah which u are associating with Pakistan

Allah give Shelter to every of his creature

Allah gives food to his creature

Allah gives everything, Not pakistan, Can u please explain this is really a creed of Old Greek mythology, that a piece of Land will give u everything

What do u think the people who are fighting in the planes of Afghanistan, they are dying because Pakistan is not giving them shelter and Food, What do u think people who are outside Pakistan

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Oct 2010 11:11 #
rhyme
Members

@supersoldier

until and unless there are efforts/attempts,to unite ummah georaphically/politicaly,made on large level by all muslims of the world especially those ruling the muslim lands,ppl living in these muslim dominated lands will continue work and improve the conditions/standards of their fellow countrymen...they will keep spreading unity first within their defined boundries...they will keep loving the place where their forefathers were born/buried....

while you continue asserting your thoughts on others...you are demanding for something from ppl,known as commoners of Pakistan,which is not in their hand!

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Oct 2010 11:27 #
shafiq12
member

rhyme,

The people who are living on these land have made these lands as part of their Creed, they think that Pakistan is providing them Shelter, They Think that Pakistan is feeding them, Their is no nationalism in Islam, The Prophet Peace be upon him change the system of Kuffar with leaving its Land i.e Makkah, Pakistan need Deen of Allah,

ah Lovely Pakistan

This is what Iqbal said once and that's happening now in front of my eyes

مسلم نے بھي تعمير کيا اپنا حرم اور
تہذيب کے آزر نے ترشوائے صنم اور
ان تازہ خداؤں ميں بڑا سب سے وطن ہے
جو پيرہن اس کا ہے ، وہ مذہب کا کفن ہے
يہ بت کہ تراشيدہء تہذيب نوي ہے
غارت گر کاشانہء دين نبوي ہے
بازو ترا توحيد کي قوت سے قوي ہے
اسلام ترا ديس ہے ، تو مصطفوي ہے

Iqbal rejected this concept and he said Islam is your country, Islam need no limited country

اسلام ترا ديس ہے ، تو مصطفوي ہے
نظارہ ديرينہ زمانے کو دکھا دے

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Oct 2010 11:32 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@RhyMe: It is! in their hands, not only as 'individuals' but also as a 'collective'.

Their individual struggle to improve their own lives will put them on a path towards positive collective struggle, that can bring about a lot! of positive changes in this society, country/nation state.

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Oct 2010 11:33 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@SultanAliKhan: Do you understand the 'construct' of;

(1) a nation state
(2) Muslim UMMAH/Empire

?

The properties, the features, the rights, the wrongs they offer to a human being, a group of human beings, a collective of human beings, etc etc ?

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Oct 2010 11:34 #
rhyme
Members

@supersoldier

@The people who are living on these land have made these lands as part of their Creed....

come on how a common pakistani who doesn't even have a say in any political/strategic decision making,is responsible for this land division?...why putting blame on every muslim?...talk practically!

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Oct 2010 11:38 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

I just love it whenever I'm reminded of the 'construct' of Muslim UMMAH. Its so attractive :D

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Oct 2010 11:39 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@RhyMe: Compare people living in Pakistan with people living on earth till 5000 years in history. You will find the answer.

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Oct 2010 11:40 #
ideas2010
Member

muslim are living life simple and not like EU who are loving worldly life which is not home for faith full muslims who beilve in Allah and day of judgement

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Oct 2010 11:43 #
rhyme
Members

@supersoldier

well first let there be a unity in muslims,which is lacking badly,talk abt it first only then we will be able to tackle bigger issues....problem is you ppl have restricted islam to only few topics...Sharia,Jihad,Khilafat...while have completely ignore even to discuss and propagate moral/ethical issues...talk about tolerence...talk about brotherhood...talk about acceptance...

just look at the way and manner ppl claiming to be "defenders" of Islam argue and interact with fellow muslims here?...how is it even sunnah? and then you guys all day pass references from traditions of Prophet (PBUH)! duh

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Oct 2010 11:44 #
sultanalikhan
Member

lollllzzz@Muslim Ummah.......where is it???
gosh be pragmatic people.....

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Oct 2010 11:50 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@SultanAliKhan: Correct. It was disintegrated back in March of 1924 by USA. USA was 'compelled' (or 'convinced') to do it by Zionists, Unjust Jews. This is no laughing matter.

Yes, it is no-where. That is why we Muslims have to 'struggle', 'engage' in 'extreme' struggle to bring it back. That is the message of the Quran. Whoever believes in Islam, in the Quran, has to adhere to it. (Sounds fun, eh ? :D)

You haven't learned the 'construct' of a nation state, as well as Muslim UMMAH. That is why you are laughing. If you would'v had that knowledge you would yourself hate nation states, and at the same time, you would run towards Muslim UMMAH as fast as you could. That is, if you are a Muslim :D

You would do more than what I can to achieve that goal.

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Oct 2010 11:51 #
shafiq12
member

Rhyme

What u talking Islam include all of those, Shair/Khilafa/Deen of Allah is only Solution,

For last 50 Year please tell what u are doing, How u explain these what u said=

while have completely ignore even to discuss and propagate moral/ethical issues...talk about tolerence...talk about brotherhood...talk about acceptance...

What u have done for Pakistan, Rahter saying "PAKISTAN HAMARI JAN SAB SE PEHLAY PAKISTAN"

Now people are dying with drones attacks and u are writing My Beloved Pakistan

Amazing

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Oct 2010 11:51 #
rhyme
Members

Islam includes those issues too i haven't denied but i have problem with ppl ignoring rest of 1000 issues while limiting their talks to only 3 or 4...

I condemn drone attacks in strong words and i always have...but still how does it give us an excuse to miss other hundereds of matters that also need attention?

what i have or haven't done for Pakistan is a personal matter which i dont like boasting myself here on public forum...and i dont sing that song all the time ""PAKISTAN HAMARI JAN SAB SE PEHLAY PAKISTAN"...akhi ur horribly funny lol...:D

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Oct 2010 11:58 #
sultanalikhan
Member

@hariskhan and super soldier.....you both keep asking others what is their contribution.....
as if you have sacrificed all your belongings and now lying on a death bed crying foul of others who did not join in.....

what have you two contributed beside accusing people in here and wasting your time by picking on people???

definitely Muslim Ummah will not be revived by pointing finger at other on internet.....you got to self-criticize and look inward.....

not so amazing i must add......lolzz

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Oct 2010 11:59 #
shafiq12
member

sultan ali khan

lollllzzz@Muslim Ummah.......where is it???

You myth is busted, u have write this phrase thousand of times before. Good luck

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Oct 2010 11:59 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@SultanAliKhan: Still pointing fingers, rather than focusing on 'learning', 'gaining' that 'knowledge' asap ?

Typical! Pakistani mentality, *#me shakes head*. *sigh*

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Here's a resource to give you a head start in leaning these concepts;

- Audio: Islam and Political Order

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Oct 2010 12:00 #