Washington: India is listed as the third most powerful country in
the world after the US and China and the fourth most powerful bloc
after the US, China and the European Union in a new official US report.
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/india-third-most-powerful-nation-us-report/131421-2.html
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Keeping the usual anti-India sentiment aside, what do you think about the report?
shafiq12
member
صنم کدہ ہے جہاں اور مرد حق ہے خليل
يہ نکتہ وہ ہے کہ پوشيدہ لاالہ ميں ہے
Keeping the usual anti-India sentiment:
This title sounds better: 'India third class power hungry country'
Keeping the usual anti-India sentiment aside:
This seems like a similar report that declared ISI the world's # 1 secret service agency... And sounds like a similar predicition according to which Pakistan should have been disintegrated by now...
expakistani
Member
Thanks to Indian Nationalism, their leadership ( specially norther part of india ) were able to utilize their limited resources but highly qualified people right way.
Kabhi hum bhi Asian Tiggers they ( back in 60s) but we failed to reach many hot spots on time.
shimatoree
Member
The basis for all this is that 1/5th of the population of India consists of well to do rich or pseudo-rich people. That puts the number at 200 million or so and that is the market for the West as well as the part of India which is working as though they were a Western modern country.
The propblem lies with the other 4/5th of the country and the current imbroglio with the Commonwealth games should tell you alot about the future of India.
Supersoldier,
Didn't get the msg you were tryin to put across. Your own words would help.
Thanks.
ExPakistani(?)
Have they? The Maoist uprising does not suggest they did the job well.
North? Kashmir ? stones?
Shimatoree,
The current CWG issue is nothing. Absolutely no obstacle in the way of India's progress in my opinion. It is embarassing yes, but it won't stop them from progressing.
The comments in the link are worth reading by the way.
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
We'll see how much a 'powerful' country India is or remains to be, when the world economy collapses.
It is 'projected' to happen before end of 2010.
Washington's attempt(s) to turn people of Pakistan into 'slaves' at the hands of Hindus' will INSHALLAH not be successful.
shafiq12
member
natasha
Don't be afraid, I believe there nothing powerful in this world if muslims truly follow what is written in Quran. You said India is third powerful county, I say who is first powerful country. See the powers of Allah
Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."008.012
The above verse is tell the us about Gzawa Badr
Allah commands the Angels to fight and support the Believers
Allah said next,
((Remember) when your Lord revealed to the angels, "Verily, I am with you, so keep firm those who have believed.'')
This is a hidden favor that Allah has made known to the believers, so that they thank Him and are grateful to Him for it. Allah, glorified, exalted, blessed and praised be He, has revealed to the angels -- whom He sent to support His Prophet, religion and believing group -- to make the believers firmer. Allah's statement,
(I will cast terror into the hearts of those who have disbelieved.) means, `you -- angels -- support the believers, strengthen their (battle) front against their enemies, thus, implementing My command to you. I will cast fear, disgrace and humiliation over those who defied My command and denied My Messenger,
Asian tiger thay in 60s????
That was when we were adopted by the US as a foster child. We turned 18, then they kicked our [you know what] out.
supersoldier,
I am not 'afraid' or anything. This was supposed to be a general discussion based on India's economy and future.
What's with the muslim/non-muslim angle ?
shafiq12
member
natasha
U believe more in article let see what is happening in India is also a failed democracy and a bad poster child for democratic form of government. It's pervasive hunger, poverty, malnutrition, illiteracy, a huge and growing rich-poor gap, and a well-established system of caste-based Apartheid, and its terrible governance make its democracy a joke. And its history of widespread persecution of its minorities makes its secular label ludicrous.
Busting Myths of India as "Peaceful, Stable and Prosperous":
Here's Indian writer Pankaj Mishra busting the myth of "Peaceful, Stable and Prosperous India":
Apparently, no inconvenient truths are allowed to mar what Foreign Affairs, the foreign policy journal of America's elite, has declared a "roaring capitalist success story". Add Bollywood's singing and dancing stars, beauty queens and Booker prize-winning writers to the Tatas, the Mittals and the IT tycoons, and the picture of Indian confidence, vigour and felicity is complete.
The passive consumer of this image, already puzzled by recurring reports of explosions in Indian cities, may be startled to learn from the National Counterterrorism Centre (NCTC) in Washington that the death toll from terrorist attacks in India between January 2004 and March 2007 was 3,674, second only to that in Iraq. (In the same period, 1,000 died as a result of such attacks in Pakistan, the "most dangerous place on earth" according to the Economist, Newsweek and other vendors of geopolitical insight.)
shimatoree
Member
Natasha-
The international Capital is the driving force.
In this month of Sptember alone- 24 Billion dollars came for investment into companies listed on the Bombay Stock excahnge.
That is 24 Billion with a B.
No metter what one might say- their economy is getting not only boost but After Burners from the Rich in the world.
And where are we in attracting capital /
I do not have to answer that as everyone knows the answer.
quaidkamazaar
Member
India is more stable and powerful than Pakistan in everysense of the word. they are more united as well.
thats a neutral analysis. btw, im Pakistani but i admit it.
The so called third most powerful country in the world (truth yet to be establised) has been beaten on all fronts by the Maoist who control quite a lot of central and eastern India.
Ask the SriLankans how powerful they are, or the Sikhs, or Bangladesh not forgetting Nepal and Bhutan. What about the Seven Sisters in the North East.
What about the Tamils?
Soldier and others,
Just because I have initiated a 'debate' on whether India is at no.3 or not , does not mean I believe they ARE.
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
@quaidkamazaar: You;
(1) support criminals, murderers, mass murderers
(2) support their activities, their crimes
(3) don't want justice
(4) don't accept justice from the court of law
(5) support MQM, which is on India's payroll to destabilize Pakistan
That shows you 'love' to be a 'savage' rather than a 'just' 'human being'.
That shows your 'credibility', where you stand in this regard.
Until and unless India becomes capable of checking it's population, it is going to be a slum no matter what progress it makes.
Don't matter how many billions with the B come in, as long as they don't make it to the common people i.e. the gap between the rich and the poor stays or widens, we are looking good, but keep an eye on, the table could turn.
woaho!
Hariskhan , what what THAT?
I am NOT an MQMer and I strongly disagree with this accusation regarding MQM being on India's payroll.
There's nothing wrong with what he said. You may hate India as much as you want , but there ARE facts backing the claim that India is doing better than us.
W'salam.
shimatoree
Member
BO
quaidkamazaar
Member
hariskhan,
i think you are getting a touch jazbaati with throwing those false allegations at me.
how could I support mass murder?
how could I support injustice?
you should not say this without knowing whats deep inside my heart.
making false allegations is a serious crime... if you dont agree with my political viewpoints, it does not mean you can start your Shitttt-talking, get a grip mate.
veestar
Member
Prithvi-II missile test of the third most powerful countr fails
Indian Prithvi-II missile test fails | Pakistan | News | Newspaper | Daily | English | Online
http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-newspaper-daily-english-online/International/24-Sep-2010/Indian-PrithviII-missile-test-fails
quaidkamazaar
Member
India is slum inhabited mostly by slaves? hahahahahahahahah I wonder what is Pakistan then, certainly not "jannat"... whatever India is, atleast they dont have bombs exploding every damn second. just get real and practical.
India is developing its next generations which are educated... far far far far far more than Pakistanis. until we match them on this front, we are doomed no matter how much you call them slum slaves.
India may be a slum but it's a market. How do people expect them never to get rid of poverty with that booming economy?
I think declaring India as some sort of superpower is not realistic. Granted that India has made some industrial progress but overall the life of a common man has not noticebly improved. It seems the criteria applied is the number of troops, and given the size and population of India, she can afford the size of its armed forces that it has.
I had a transit stop at Delhi Airport a few years ago and having seen a little bit of India there, I think, despite enormous problems, Pakistan is a great blessing. Life of average Pakistani is much better than that in India.
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
@natasha: I addressed someone else in that post.
Hariskhan,
yes indeed. Are we supposed to stick to private arguments on a public forum?
I didn't know!
Natasha,
Indeed India is making progress but the rate is too slow for the benefits to reach to the masses. It's huge population offsets any progress. There is growing middle class in big cities, but the majority of the population is still in villages and agriculture is the backbone. For a country of that big a size, one would need drastic reforms more like Chinese model for fast change, which would mean democratic related baggage must be cut to make radical changes. The model that India follows is market economy of the western style (but only in modern industries, agriculture still lags), with their culture and population they will need until eternity to bring about any measurable change in the life of a villager. They have the same 'ol police system, patwari etc. Only noticeable change has been in West Bengal in the land reforms primarily due to the Communist party during the time of Jyoti Basu, The communist party ruled that whoever works the land for 5 or X years would own it. These type of changes would bring significant transformation if applied through out the country, but didn't happen in other states.
shimatoree
Member
qaid ka mazr
Have you been to India- not just Delhi or Agra or Bombay ?
Have you been to Jharkahnd or Satishgarh or Eastern UP or Bihar ?
If not perhaps you might consider doing that. Then you might change your perspective a bit.
quaidkamazaar
Member
yeah shimatoree,
i understand what you are trying to say. A whole lot of India is slum.
But what I have seen in India is total dedication to education. literacy rate is much better as compared to Pakistan. They dont have feudal lords ruling them the way it happens in Pakistan.
The newer generations of India will make India have bright future because they are educated.... it makes a big difference. While you cant say same about Pakistan.
People are saying average life of Pakistani is better than Indian... I say in what sense? We are living under our worst times in history with terrorism all over the place I dont think we are any better if not worse.
shimatoree
Member
Natasha-
The economic boom in India is now over 15 years old. Yet it has failed to change the lives of the people in the areas I have mentioned above.
It is a very capitalistic boom in the economy and like everything else in India is not what appears to be the case.
I do not think that the growth in the economy is trickling down as Arundati Roy and others continue to harp.
Unlike most people on this Blog I travel to out lying India quite a bit and see with my eyes the new boom.
Yes the real estate market in the big cities is booming.
Yes the stock market is bringing in a lot of foreign investments at the rate of 20 billion a month or so.
But that is not changing the lives of the " slaves".
If they go to see a doctor- they have to pay 500 ruppees just to see the doctor.
If they have to have minor surgery- it is 5000 ruppees for the surgeon's fee alone.
That is more than 2-3 months salary.
All over the cities of the East people defecate in public on streets in large crowds because they do not have a place to go. Oh that is so in Delhi too.
I could go on ad infinitum but you get the message.
And I am not just indulging in diatribe or scoring points I am just telling like it really is.
quaidkamazaar
Member
Anyways, I dont know how I could expect typical Pakistanis on a Pakistani forum to think neutrally.... lol, it would never happen.
and the thread creator natasha should realize this as well :)
patriotism kicks in and accepting that someone else is doing better is seen as if one is sinning.
barackosama,
I agree with the need of drastic reforms thing you talked about. Yes it might take ages for them to actually reach no. 3 but I don't think that's really an impossibility as some members here are trying to imply.
The growing middle class is what is actually turning things around.
quaidkamazaar
Member
shimatoree,
you are talking about noncity areas... thats right.... they are doing not so well... but atleast their cities are booming.
some of their entire states have 99% literacy.
can we say that about even 1 city of Pakistan?
Shimatoree,
You're making a valid argument when you talk of the divide. Yes India's not all about bombay delhi , tata , ambanis and shahrukh khans...the rural india is the real india.... I agree.
But do you really believe they can never get to that no. 3 spot with western interests in their huge population. Improving literacy , cheap labour etc?
patriotism kicks in and accepting that someone else is doing better is seen as if one is sinning.
That's not patriotism.
I think what quadkamazar is talking about is 'attitude'. Their attitude and outlook is definitely positive and different than ours. The Indians I know of are remarkably much clear, stronger and lively about their future unlike the Pakistani students I know. I would extend the attitude idea to institution and government level.
shimatoree
Member
As one who has been educated in the West- let me make a statement.
The West is only interested in quick profits and appreciation of the value of shares they buy in whatever companies.Using their language- it the quick buck that they want to make.They have no interest in the lives of the slaves except that they want many more of them at the cheapest possible expence so their profit margins can be high and the shares that they own appreciate further in value.
In India just like in Pakistan- I would like to tell you this incident-
one of the American Orthopedic surgeons who came to do mission work during the 2005 Earthquake -made a very profound statement to me.
He said and I quote
"
Capitalism has gone amock here. It is nuts. It reminds me of the worst robber barrons of the 19th century America- No this is much worse here. No body gives a **** about the workers who are not workers but slaves. In the US we have minimum wage, health benefits, pensions, disability etc and the Govt makes sure that all the laws are followed. Here there is nothing " end of quote.
The mentality of the well to do Indian is inhuman. In Delhi where I stayed with a retired family for a few days in their marble lined palace- the couple in their 70's had 12 servants- all from Assam and Bihar and they were being paid less than peanuts. I aksed them why did they treat their poor countrymen like that. I was told that it has always been like that in India. These servants are the people of India and they consider us to be gods which we are .
Because of the population explosion and lack of jobs they can do that since there are so many hungry people who want to have a job- any kind of job so that they can eat.
In places like Gorakhpur and Azamgarh in Eastern UP and the villages around there is no electricity after 6 PM.
So what do the poor do for entertainment- SEX and no birth control - so lots and lots of people are coming into this world.
The population of India is also fraud- it is far bigger than what is being reported.
I could sit down and write a whole book about that.
You get the point.
quaidkamazaar
Member
shimatoree, brother, in Karachi, in our own houses we have "maaseez" from gaos far far away... and we pay them next to nothing, they live in jhopreez of Karachi barely cutting it. then we have extremely rich people as well who have a huge team of basically slaves in their houses as well. yaar, such things are everywhere.I am asking you to compare the best of India vs the best of Pakistan.I am asking you to compare the younger generations of India vs younger generations of Pakistan.... compare literacy, education, nation building, terrorism prevention, governance how India never had armyrule and is free from the jaal of feudal.
why am I bringing good things of India in light? not so that we die in humility but so that we as a nation stand up for ourselves... now is the time.
shimatoree
Member
qaid ka mazar-
Karachi to me a foreign country. Last time I was there in 1980.
I try not to cross the Indus river if I can help it.
We do not have that situation in the Frontier to taht extent.
But you did not answer my inquiry about have you been to India ?
quaidkamazaar
Member
loool Karachi to you is a foreign country,, for some reason i donno wat that just makes me crackkkk hahahahahahahahaha.
bro, I have not been to India personally, but I have enough friends from there. I have contact with relatives from there... my parents have been there. I have closest friends who tell me about that place. so just because I havent been to India doesnt mean i dont know much about it. btw, I plan to go for the next WC anyways inshallah.
barackosama has understood me pretty well... "attitude" is what I am talking about, Indians are far ahead in their work ethic and focus on education and nation building. with this diligence and spread of literacy they are more bound to rise from slums than us.
Hussain Farooqui
Member
The early steps of the Indians after the independence included abolition of the feudal system and establishment of a very good educational system. The abolition of feudal system made their society an independent society. The educational system developed by them made quality education affordable for poor people. That was how they developed their human resources successfully.
The majority of our population is still living in slavery under the feudal system. The feudals have been creating hindrances in whatever the educational the govts. tried to establish. Most of the govt. schools buildings in the rural areas of Pakistan are being used as the autaqs of waderas and jagirdars. .
Truthlover
Member
Beware India!
Saddam too was said to have the third biggest army.
Shah of Iran was told that Iran was a regional super power.
Zardari too was declared as one of the most powerful person before he came to power.
Hussain Farooqui
Member
Truthlover
Saddam acted as their stooge and then was killed by them as an unwanted person at the helm of affairs. India is fully supported by the Western countries to be a matching rival of China, so there is no doubt about its growth.
Karachi is a center of RAW, there are many houses in Cantt and Defense areas where residents celebrate 15 august instead of 14.
this is the world , where your actual worth not even counted .
what is count is your Presentation , your styles and your outlook .
unfortunately , India is way ahead in this regard , in the international community .
it has problems . it has millions of poor people ...it has corrupt politicians as well as corrupt army officiers ...it has mismanagement problems inside outside the boundries ...it has enemity on borders .
it has tons of problems ,unresolved .
but some how ,it has portrays itself ,successfully , as a modern ,well off and strong country .
it has a strong lobby in power holding countries .
it has its publicity managers all over the world .
it has the brains to manage the dust under the carpet .
unfortunately , we lack all this and much more .
Abdul Rahman
Member
Beenai, Our datum is not India. We should get our long last glory back that took us towards materialistic and spritual progress.India is very corrupt country and has only shown materialistic progress at the expense of its downtrodden millions. It's so called progress should not be our envy. It follows secular laws and constitution dictated by British.
Unfortunately, we also have same constitution and laws dictated by British. We need to go back to our roots and not ape Western or Eastern progress. It is not portraying itself successfully in international arena but the Zionist dominated world order and media patronize it and it is always in league with India. It is axis of evil along with US and Israel.
Truthlover
Member
Hussain Farooqui, What I intended to convey was that one shouldn't take such claims and declarations seriously. The west wants desperately to paint India as a power that can match Chinese wonder both economically and militarily. But the truth is India lacks the basic qualities that can put her at par with China.India is incompetent, disorganised and clumsy in all matters and can't become a major power in any field.
@Abdul Rahman ,
no , i was not trying o get envious with india .
if i sounded so ...may be my word selection wasnt correct .
i just wanna prove , in my previous post that what India has acheived in the name of Powerful country , is not but a patronage of international powers , wrapped in the desire to encourage a secular country in the region ...
otherwise , India is almost facing the same number and types of problems like us , in terms of poverty , unemployement , disaster management ,corruption and provinding basic neccessities to a common man .
Truthlover
Member
@Beenai,
We live in times where propoganda weaves the emerging realities, where lobbyists can make miracles, where Evil controls all the tools of information and thus can form our opinions and brain wash us. Indians are potrayed as an emerging economic and military power at par with China but that is a complete lie, India lacks the neccessary tools and ingriedients that are required in making of a great force.
India is artificially lifted to heavens above and withhold there but it shines not of its own light. It shall collapse and crash as soon as it is suspended to be at its own. India was never a super power and shall never be a one, she is corrupt, disorganised, blind to details and most of all incompetent and therefore must fail.
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