PKPolitics Discuss » Current Issues
Indian Institute of Technology, IIT
(80 posts)-
shirazi
MemberPosted 1 year ago on 26 Feb 2011 3:40 # -
Impressive institute but brain drain from India is clear in this documentary. In India dream of many kids is to move to USA and Institutes such as IIT provide them this facility. IBA in Karachi is one of them where lots of students want to enrol.
Posted 1 year ago on 26 Feb 2011 4:42 # -
shriq
MemberEducation in India is excellent! No doubt!
The first Hindu university in Banaras was set up in 1832 (correct me if I am wrong) and we Muslims started first SCHOOL in 1860s. Way behind them. But well, its never too late!!
Or is it?Posted 1 year ago on 26 Feb 2011 7:48 # -
@Raavi
Muslims have always left behind in education no matter where they live. Sir Syed was awarded title of British Agent and even kafir when he started his education movement to educate Muslims of India. My mother underwent lots of troubles/criticism when she went to school in India in the early 40's. She has told me horrible/suffering stories of muslim girls attending schools. There has been a generation gap between muslim women and majority hindu women attending schools and colleges.
Posted 1 year ago on 26 Feb 2011 7:55 # -
shriq
MemberST,
We should salute ladies like your mother who underwent such difficulties but got educations. Really respect such people! Education is the need of the time! It can change whole scenario altogether. Once a scholar said "Educate your people, all your problems would be evaporated".
BTW, you would be reaping the fruits of the struggle what respected lady went through! Aint I right ST?Posted 1 year ago on 26 Feb 2011 7:59 # -
@Raavi
Yeah we did as my mother always paid huge importance to educate family. She told us her brave stories of going to school back in the 40's. I think she deserved a noble prize for her efforts to get education. My analysis has been that Muslim families remained behind due to whatever reasons mostly cultural and religious. Simply look at today's Pakistan like Balochistan Province or Interior Sind where literacy rate among female is like 10% or even less. Rural Pakistan has very low literacy rate and despite 60 years of independence we have remained illetrate. Bangldesh have done better than us but we have remained behind especially our female population has suffered a lot due to cultural/religious reasons.
Posted 1 year ago on 26 Feb 2011 8:15 # -
toamin
memberRegarding:
The first Hindu university in Banaras was set up in 1832 (correct me if I am wrong) and we Muslims started first SCHOOL in 1860s. Way behind them. But well, its never too late!!
Or is it?School meaning a place where future clerks for East India Company were to be trained?
Posted 1 year ago on 26 Feb 2011 11:45 # -
Al-Azhar University: Cairo, Egypt - The Madrasah connected with it was founded in 988 AD. Studies began in Al-Azhar in Ramadan by October 975 AD, when Chief Justice Abul Hasan Ali ibn Al-No'man started teaching the book "Al-Ikhtisar", on jurisprudence.
University of Paris: France - There was no exact date on the foundation of this university but founded before 1150.
University of Oxford: England - The exact date of the university's founding is uncertain. Before 1167, teaching existed since 1096.
University of Modena and Reggio Emilia: Italy founded in 1175.
University of Cambridge: England - founded in 1209
University of Salamanca: Spain - It was founded by Alfonso IX Leon in1218
University of Montpellier: France - founded in 1220
University of Padua: Italy as a school since1237-61
Reference: http://www.bukisa.com/articles/31127_the-worlds-oldest-universities
One is even older and that is Takshashila now Texila - Pakistan
Some scholars date Takshashila's existence back to the 6th century BCE or 7th century BCE. It became a noted centre of learning at least several centuries before Christ, and continued to attract students from around the old world until the destruction of the city in the 5th century CE.
Reference: http://wikimapia.org/7359843/Takshashila-Taxila-The-Oldest-University-in-the-world
Posted 1 year ago on 26 Feb 2011 12:50 # -
toamin
memberشکریہ ایس ای مرزا صاحب آپ میرا اشارہ درست سمجھے ہیں
Posted 1 year ago on 26 Feb 2011 14:25 # -
Dusky
MemberIt's a shame for Muslim countries across the board that we did not come-up with one single educational and research institute in last 1000 years which we can showcase at world arena.
Posted 1 year ago on 26 Feb 2011 15:49 # -
Shame should be on colonials...who occupied half of the world holding back all sorts of academic progress in Muslim lands. They wanted clerks to be created from them and so they did as a support to their colonial rule.
Posted 1 year ago on 26 Feb 2011 15:54 # -
Dusky
MemberYeah right, it's always their fault. We are naive and duped not to get invest in education.
By the way, India was as colonized as Pakistan but they managed to excel in last 60 years. What we or any other Muslim country have done since the colonial powers pack the bag?Posted 1 year ago on 26 Feb 2011 16:04 # -
singh isking
MemberDhoop mein niklo, hawaoon mein naha kar dekho,
Zindgi kya hai kitaboon ko hatta ker dekho.In 21 century , no doudt one needs theoratical based knowledge from schools, universities. However, dont forget the word wisdom which one gets when he look at life with open and awakened eyes. A balance between theoretical base knowledge and wisdom is imperative of good citizenry of any society.
Posted 1 year ago on 26 Feb 2011 18:23 # -
yahya
Member"Shame should be on colonials...who occupied half of the world holding back all sorts of academic progress in Muslim lands."
Isn't it the colonials who setup institutions like Government College, FC College, KE Medical college, Punjab University just to name a few of many in just one city Lahore and there are numerous such institutions all over sub continent. How many such institutions did your beloved Muslim emperors setup?
Posted 1 year ago on 26 Feb 2011 18:51 # -
awaisis
MemberKnow couple of guys from IIT. The insitutes like LUMS & IBA are producing better products compared to IIT
Posted 1 year ago on 26 Feb 2011 18:57 # -
truths
Membermostly institute is money making machine
any body can answered world top most scientists as
Ian Stine
Newton
Aristotle
Sir Isaac Newton i.e,so many top scienstists of the world learn from any insitute?
whats degree having?
many sceinstist never gone to any education institute or universty school and any other in life,but in current we study thease peoples law, we follow theres law and rules who never gone or study in any institute dont having degrees
Posted 1 year ago on 26 Feb 2011 19:02 # -
shirazi
Member@SE Mirza Sb.
Your argument is shame on them because they did not let us progress in past thousand years. I failed but it's your fault. :)
Posted 1 year ago on 26 Feb 2011 19:03 # -
shirazi
Member@awaisis
IBA and LUMS can be compared with Indian Institute of Management , IIM's not IIT's. And I believe because of the stiff competition IIMs produce better graduates than IBA and LUMS.
Posted 1 year ago on 26 Feb 2011 19:07 # -
singh isking
Member@ shirazi
i have few friends graduated from prestigious IIT. yes, it can produce better engineers. The question is, Can it produce better human beings?Posted 1 year ago on 26 Feb 2011 19:22 # -
Yasser6
Blocked@sing isking
Dhoop mein niklo, hawaoon mein naha kar dekho,
Zindgi kya hai kitaboon ko hatta ker dekho.Absolutely wonderful lyric. Can you please tell who the lyricist is?
Posted 1 year ago on 26 Feb 2011 20:50 # -
singh isking
Member@yaseer6
Nida fazli is the poet.Posted 1 year ago on 26 Feb 2011 21:14 # -
zenith
Member@ singh is king " Can it produce better human beings"
This is an important argument because monetary and moral corruption exist in educated people a lot, especially in south asia.
However, education must encompass knowledge and importance of the supremacy of law.
In western education systems, they have integrated this sense of fearing the law of the land.
The conclusion that they have reached is that without adherence to law, a society cannot survive. This needs to be followed.
No matter what field a individual belongs to he/she is constantly taught to respect the law in the west.
Western system is not a perfect one, but it will certainly work as long as they infuse this respect for the law in their new generations.
Posted 1 year ago on 26 Feb 2011 23:05 # -
singh isking
Member@zenith
Adhering to law of land is one thing. The point i wanted to make is about decision a person makes in its activities of daily living. Does these schools teach or is it possible to teach how to make those decisions. Those decisions are reflect the social values
Posted 1 year ago on 27 Feb 2011 0:18 # -
shirazi
Member@singh isking
For better human beings we have mudrussaas :)
Let's just applaud IIT for producing best (not better) Engineers. As she said in the video no one in IIT takes music courses :)
Posted 1 year ago on 27 Feb 2011 1:06 # -
Indian education system is far better than Pakistani system. Their Institutes are of world standard and they produce better scientits and engineers. Our education system is 30 tiers and anybody can run any syllabus in thier schools. Madarssa system is totally defective and producing no results
Posted 1 year ago on 27 Feb 2011 3:12 # -
Abdul Rahman
MemberIndian, Pakistani and Amarican education are all based materialistic secular sciences devoid of God Almighty. Some may be better than others but the fact remains that all are based on observation only and breed society devoid of morals and sprituality. It was "islamic" education system is integration of material secular sciences based on observation and divine inspiration that came through revelations that propelled Muslims to be the leaders of mankind. They were the ones who spearheaded inventions and discoveries.
This is what HP CEO Carly Fiorina said after 9/11. We need to base our education on that model and NOT on Indian, or American Godless model.
There was once a civilization that was the greatest in the world. It was able to create a continental super-state that stretched from ocean to ocean, and from northern climates to tropics and deserts. Within its dominion lived hundreds of millions of people, of different creeds and ethnic origins. One of its languages became the universal language of much of the world, the bridge between the peoples of a hundred lands.
Its armies were made up of people of many nationalities. Its military protection allowed a degree of peace and prosperity that had never been known. The reach of this civilization's commerce extended from Latin America to China, and everywhere in between.
This civilization was driven, more than anything, by invention. Its architects designed buildings that defied gravity. Its mathematicians created the algebra and algorithms that would enable the building of computers and the creation of encryption. Its doctors examined the human body and found new cures for disease. Its astronomers looked into the heavens, named the stars, and paved the way for space travel and exploration. Its writers created thousands of stories - stories of courage, romance and magic. Its poets wrote of love, when others before them were too steeped in fear to think of such things.
When other nations were afraid of ideas, this civilization thrived on them and kept them alive. When censors threatened to wipe out knowledge from past civilizations, this civilization kept the knowledge alive and passed it on to others. While modern Western civilization shares many of these traits, the civilization I'm talking about was the Islamic world from the year 800 to 1600, which included the Ottoman Empire and the courts of Baghdad, Damascus and Cairo, and enlightened rulers like Suleiman the Magnificent.
Although we are often unaware of our indebtedness to this other civilization, its gifts are very much a part of our heritage. The technology industry would not exist without the contributions of Muslim mathematicians. Leaders like Suleiman contributed to our notions of tolerance and civic leadership. And perhaps we can learn a lesson from his example: It Was leadership based on meritocracy, not inheritance. It was leadership that harnessed the full capabilities of a very diverse population that included Christianity, Islamic and Jewish traditions.
This kind of enlightened leadership - leadership that Nurtured culture, sustainability, diversity and courage - led to 800 years of invention and prosperity. In dark and serious times like this, we must affirm our Commitment to building societies and institutions that aspire to this kind of greatness.
Posted 1 year ago on 27 Feb 2011 4:07 # -
shirazi
Member@AR
Thanks to the thinkers like you who present mudrussaas as better alternative than IITs we are where we are.
Posted 1 year ago on 27 Feb 2011 4:38 # -
toamin
memberThanks AR for HP CEO's excerpt, sad but unfortunately our people believe more when it is coming from a western source :)
Posted 1 year ago on 27 Feb 2011 5:09 # -
Can we showcase any of our educational institute like Indians do?
Our education system has been hijacked by current ruling elite/wealthy individuals and they want all the good education for their kids plus all the good jobs.
The rest has been hijackd by molvis and uncontrolled influx of defective madarssa system.
Posted 1 year ago on 27 Feb 2011 6:31 # -
toamin
memberتنزلی کے گہرائیوں میں جا کر کیا مقابلہ کرنا، نشاط ثانیہ پانے کے بعد بات شروع ہوگی
Posted 1 year ago on 27 Feb 2011 6:38 # -
Sahnaz
Membera glimpse of public education system in pak
Posted 1 year ago on 27 Feb 2011 9:16 # -
Sahnaz
MemberPosted 1 year ago on 27 Feb 2011 9:17 # -
Sahnaz
MemberPosted 1 year ago on 27 Feb 2011 9:18 # -
Sahnaz
Memberwhy we r way behind to other countries??
Posted 1 year ago on 27 Feb 2011 9:20 # -
Above videos are eye openers for the plight of our education system and those who have never ever wanted to equip us with good quality education.
Posted 1 year ago on 27 Feb 2011 13:16 # -
toamin
memberIt is insult to call these places "Schools", Secular/Liberals have been in rule for past 63 years, yet a complete failure in all departments of society-
Posted 1 year ago on 27 Feb 2011 13:35 # -
AoA All
The current Indian education system and for that matter even pakistan education system produces nothing but the CYBER KOOLIES.
All the educational institutes (in india and in Pakistan) and the education system is designed to provide the combustion material for western intellectual supermacy. What is required for Pakistan is not IIT, IIM, IBM, LUMS, GIKI, QAU or any other institute like them but a institute and a educational system which instills and produces independent intellectual thinking. The educational system and institute which plant a seed for a mind which is free of corrupt and slave mentality, the mind which produces a thought which is not shackled to western intellectual supermacy rather it counters it and smashes it and provide an alternative to western thoughts and concepts.
We also need to remembet Allama Iqbal's poetry regarding the western education and what it has done to our minds .. This is what shaitan is saying to his disciples regarding muslim youth.
تعلیم کے تیزاب میں ڈال اسکی خودی کو
ہو جائے ملایم تو جدھر چاہے اسے پھیر
تاثیر میں اکسیر سے بڑھ کر ہے یہ تاز
سونے کا ہمالہ ہو تو مٹی کا ہے ایک ڈھیرFJ
Posted 1 year ago on 27 Feb 2011 13:53 # -
Shame should be on colonials...who occupied half of the world holding back all sorts of academic progress in Muslim lands. They wanted clerks to be created from them and so they did as a support to their colonial rule.
Yes, we were headed towards a great scientific era before colonials took over, right??
Biggest sign of a defeat is when a loser blames others instead of finding what he/she did wrong!!!
Colonials left long ago, but what have we done since then to improve our educational system!!!
East India company needed clerks so they opened up universities and colleges like King Edward Medical College, Aitchison College, Forman Christian College etc. What a shameful thing to say?
As if "madrassa tul Ulloom" and "jamias" were churning out scientists and inventors until British arrived!!!
Just look at the level of Al Azhar University and Oxford University, Oxford has Newton and Hawkings and what does Al Azhar have, Aiman Al Zwahiri, go figure!!!
Posted 1 year ago on 27 Feb 2011 13:54 # -
Sahnaz
MemberDear Friedns
i think most of us r forgetting tht first insitutue fr any child is home where he grow up and learn very first lesson of life. the whole envoirnment where he grow up put sm impacts which r very fundamental in nature for cming life of tht child.
whn hasan nisar is talking abt muslim countries especailly he was showing mirror to us. just debuke him is nt the ans to our very much social problem. why pakistan is nt gud in providing better education to children.
sm1 is saying tht pakistan was under these so called librals tht y we r way behind?? is this the case ?? really?? y u people lie such on a public form. i think u need to do sm google search and u need will the facts tht whn pakistan was under these librals.
one of the biggest problem in pakistan is feudlism and dirty politics. go to interior sindh and u will get the real picture and i can bet if u ever find a single libral there from last 63 years. same goes fr most of pakistan proviance. please do a google search and get sm facts about balochistan and nwfp. see the sitution of gender education over there. check the gender ratio of literacy and compare it with overall pakistan gender literacy ratio.
how many liberlas we hv in swat in pakhtoonwala peshawar balochistan?? wr these liberals responisble to bombed down the schol buildings and use it as their barracks??
we need to think abt our cming generation. think frm yr brain and leave all these prejudice asides and try to work togather. hopefully pakistan future will be nt as dark as it seems now.
many thnx
shahnazPosted 1 year ago on 27 Feb 2011 14:11 # -
Dear Dell
so what brilliant thinkers the likes of King Edward Medical College, Aitchison College, Forman Christian College has produced.
For the last 64 years, all the powers in Pakistan has been in the hands of people who graduated from these so called prestigious institute, so what have they done to make Pakistan a intellectual world power. Ayub was gratuated from Sandhurst, ZAB and his beloved daughter were graduated from Oxford, All the people be they military or civilian rulers were gratuated from Western educational institutes and not from Madrassa, what they have done.
Admitted that madrassas hasnt produced a sceintist and that is not their job either, what independent and free thinking these western educated people has given us.
Someone gave me a book to read and the following paragraghs struck me like a thunderbolt.
" Thoughts, in any nation, are the greatest fortune the nation gains in her life if the nation is newly born; and they are the greatest gift that any generation can receive from the preceding
generation, provided the nation is deep-rooted in the enlightened thought.
With regard to material wealth, scientific discoveries, industrial inventions and the like, all of these are of much lower importance than thoughts. In fact, to gain such matters depends on the thoughts, and preservation of these matters depends on the thoughts as well.
If the material wealth of a nation is destroyed, it is possible for it to be restored quickly as long as the nation preserves its intellectual wealth. However, if the intellectual wealth collapses and the nation retains only its materialistic wealth, this wealth will soon shrink and the nation will fall down into poverty. Most of the scientific achievements which the nation once made can be regained, provided it does not lose its way of thinking.
Whereas, if it lost the productive way of thinking, it would soon regress and lose its discoveries and inventions. Therefore, it is necessary to take care of the thoughts first. Based upon these thoughts, and according to the productive way of thinking, material wealth is gained, and the achievement of scientific discoveries, industrial inventions and the like is sought.
What is meant by thoughts is the existence, within the nation, of the process of thinking in it’s life affairs, such that the majority of its individuals use the information that they have when facing events, so as to judge on them. This means that they have thoughts which they contrive to use in life, and by using these thoughts frequently and successfully, a productive way of thinking results".FJ
Posted 1 year ago on 27 Feb 2011 14:25 # -
shirazi
Member@FJ
"What is required for Pakistan is not IIT, IIM, IBM, LUMS, GIKI, QAU or any other institute like them but a institute and a educational system which instills and produces independent intellectual thinking. The educational system and institute which plant a seed for a mind which is free of corrupt and slave mentality, the mind which produces a thought which is not shackled to western intellectual supermacy rather it counters it and smashes it and provide an alternative to western thoughts and concepts."
Why don't you visit your nearest mudrassa you will find your dream institution. They may plant a anti west seed on your request which will grow to a tree in few months that may explode in Anar Kali during rush hours :)
Posted 1 year ago on 27 Feb 2011 14:46 # -
toamin
memberGood question!
so what brilliant thinkers the likes of King Edward Medical College, Aitchison College, Forman Christian College has produced.
For the last 64 years, all the powers in Pakistan has been in the hands of people who graduated from these so called prestigious institute, so what have they done to make Pakistan a intellectual world power. Ayub was gratuated from Sandhurst, ZAB and his beloved daughter were graduated from Oxford, All the people be they military or civilian rulers were gratuated from Western educational institutes and not from Madrassa, what they have done.
I guess the sec-libs are speechless?
Posted 1 year ago on 27 Feb 2011 14:54 # -
Farigh Jazbati you just stood up to your name!!
Bhutto etc were never given a chance as they got sucked in the quick sand of Pakistani politics.
Intellectual wealth?? preserve??? So what alternative do you have? Unless and until you come up with an alternative all your comments and arguments against western/scientific education are invalid.
I like how you picked one line from my whole comment while completely ignored the rest of it.
Bottomline is that education system in Pakistan is completely flawed. I am amazed at how these Tali-lovers on this forum say western education restricts free thinking????!! Are you fvcking kidding me?? Since when did right wing nuts care about anything that's free, whether intellectual or social?? Hypocrisy at it's best!!!
Pakistani educational system is highly regressive, it in fact restricts free thinking, it's ancient, not up to date and the influence of religious nuts on the syllabus takes it to the new depths of darkness.
BTW, didn't Iqbal also study at these institution made by British, in fact he went to Germany to complete his PHD, oh and he also accepted the title of "Sir" (knighted) from British whereas Rabinder Nath Tagore rejected that title as British wanted to give him that title as well, so much for being against "Maghrib".
Hypocrites stand exposed!!
Posted 1 year ago on 27 Feb 2011 14:55 # -
Dear Shirazi
Its such a shame that just like closed mind mullahs on the one side, we have closed mind liberal seculars on the other side.
I wish, you read my comments again and ponder on them and would you care to point out where I advocated the people going to madrassa for free and independent thinking education.
And remember, a different point of view is not necessarily an opposing point of view.
FJ
Posted 1 year ago on 27 Feb 2011 14:55 # -
Dear Dell or may I say Dull ;)
The point I am trying to make is that we need an education system which produces free thinkers, free from closed mind mullah mentality and also free from western intellectual slavery.
What we need, an education system and thus educational institutes which give a nation self respect, which give them intellectual freedom and independence, which give them ideas and thoughts how to be a nation who is not reliant on the outsider, who produces its own doctors, engineers, sceintists, economist, philosphers, political thinkers etc.
The current education system and institutes can only produce fuel for the western intellectual engine and nothing more.
FJ
Posted 1 year ago on 27 Feb 2011 15:03 # -
Salam,
Yeah right, you went to Darul uloom deoband to get all your education, right?
----Why don't you visit your nearest mudrassa you will find your dream institution. They may plant a anti west seed on your request which will grow to a tree in few months that may explode in Anar Kali during rush hours :)
----------
LOL,Tali Lovers took the term open mindedness too literally. KABOOM!! exploding head = open minded free thinking!!
--
The point I am trying to make is that we need an education system which produces free thinkers, free from closed mind mullah mentality and also free from western intellectual slavery.
I really wonder where in the world does such an education system exist??
Posted 1 year ago on 27 Feb 2011 15:06 # -
Dear Dell
"I really wonder where in the world does such an education system exist??"
If we had this education system in Pakistan or muslim world then would we be having this discussion Duh!
FJ
Posted 1 year ago on 27 Feb 2011 15:47 # -
Some people are trying to prove our madarssa system is bettern than Indian Institute of Technology; What a shame!!
We are producing jihadis through our defective madarssa system and we still have people on this forum defending them. We should not feel ashamed if our education system lags behind Indian one, rather we should strive for improving our education system to match with others.
Posted 1 year ago on 27 Feb 2011 16:56 # -
Abdul Rahman
MemberThe epic battle raging next door is pitting madrasa grads against the armies of war criminals educated in Oxford (British) and Harvard (Obama the tyrant).The combined might of the West plus its brown slaves mercenaries washing NATO toilets is being bloodied and a humiliating defeat is staring in the eyes of so called technological powers of the world. All latest high tech weapons of mass destruction are rendered useless in the formidable mountains of the lands of Jihad.
Posted 1 year ago on 27 Feb 2011 18:30 # -
@ bitterlies
"Some people are trying to prove our madarssa system is bettern than Indian Institute of Technology; What a shame!!"
Could you please point out where someone has said or even alluded to what you said above.
another lie from you
No one is saying that current madrassa system of education is better or even suitable for educating the masses. What I and other people who put their point of view against western slave mentality inspired education are saying that we need a new and different education system which frees us from shackles of western intellectual slavery and give us and the rest of the world a new way of living in peace and harmony.
FJ
Posted 1 year ago on 27 Feb 2011 18:49 #
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