Indian Interest in Baluchistan - Open letter to Sonia Gandhi

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Indian Interest in Baluchistan - Open letter to Sonia Gandhi

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semirza
Moderator

The Balochs have been ferociously fighting for their independence. They fought their first war of independence in the early 1970s immediately after Bangladesh was born. They thought they could emulate the example of the Bengalis, but Zulfiquar Ali Bhutto, then in power, ruthlessly crushed them with his Air Force. The Balochs sent out frantic appeals for help to Indira Gandhi. Despite her love for the Balochs, she decided not to take any action. She felt it would be neither advisable nor feasible. Moreover, she was aware of the concerns of the Shah of Iran over the freedom struggle of the Balochs of Pakistan. Iran has a large Baloch population on its side of its border with Pakistan.

The Balochs were totally suppressed by the Punabi-dominated Pakistani Army till 2004. But their desire for independence has remained as strong as ever. They started a second war of independence in December 2005, which continues till now despite the most ruthless actions taken to suppress them by the previous Government of Pervez Musharraf and the present Government of Asif Ali Zardari. Nawab Akbar Khan Bugti was killed by the Musharraf government. Many of the young leaders of the Balochistan Liberation Army (BLA) were subsequently killed. Despite this, the freedom struggle continues.

Full article at: http://www.scribd.com/doc/17522094/Open-Letter-to-Sonia-Gandhi

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Sep 2009 20:27 #
Anonymous

The story appears to be true. On the ground realities in Balochistan are deteriorating with every passing day.

There is urgent need to tackle the issue wisely and immediately by our leaders, before it is too late.

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Sep 2009 21:06 #
Asli Moulana
Blocked

i dont get it why do the Baluch people love India so much rather than a country which they choose to be a part of ?

Is this all a hype or are we being given valid hints on who is working for the disintegration of Pakistan.

Moulana.

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Sep 2009 5:33 #
AsifK
Members

Asli Moulana

pakistan is basically a federation of 4 provinces which surrender certain rights to the federation. Now , if federation doesn't continue within the agreed upon framework , the constituent units (federating units) have every right to consider their options ? Whats wrong in that ?

Same thing happened in bengal and ultimately bengalis won the freedom from oppressor in 1971 . This is the same thing happening in Balochistan .

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Sep 2009 5:45 #
Asli Moulana
Blocked

Asif Sahib

The question of Bengali revolt can be answered by the reaction of the people to the man who spear-headed the separation of Bengali was killed by the very soldiers whom he used to achieve his goal ?

so if they were led into failure or were duped by their very own leader isnt it possible that the Balouchis are being duped themselves ?

Moulana.

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Sep 2009 6:12 #
amin1924
member

The way I see it is that you can not keep people united on the barrel of gun. These people from different cultures/history/traditions/languages came together on the call of Islamic Ideology but since that was no more than a myth now british colonial tool (Army) that Pakistan inherited (inherited with original spirit) is using same tactics to keep people under control as britisher were doing during their occupation.

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Sep 2009 7:05 #
Beenai
Moderator

Balochistan is been a deprived province .
and its true that it has been neglected a lot by every Govt .
reason maybe rightly put in the under discussed article .
that our army has a hold of other ethnic group and community .
thats why in decision making ,Balochistan was getting sidelined for time and again.
but now Govt should take Balochistan very seriously.
rather focusing on gossips by retired army officers.....

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Sep 2009 7:20 #
AsifK
Members

Asli Moulana

"The question of Bengali revolt can be answered by"

Molana sahib, majority revolt nahi karti , its minority which revolts.

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Sep 2009 7:26 #
semirza
Moderator

I have good friends from Baluchistan. Well placed and powerful they feel no shame in mentioning that the cause of plight of a common Baluch has much to do with the Sardari Nizam and less to do in comparison, with army interventions.

Himself highly educated (one was a minister for the last government)they admit this too that an educated Baluch will never be in their favour.

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Sep 2009 7:27 #
amin1924
member

Beenai,

It is baloch sardari system (baloch culture) vs establishment. As you can see establishment is going to the extent of killing but not allowing sardari system which was there all along during british raj (as these sardars were collaborators)

Govt can't do much they are helpless in this domain. It is the ego of establishment that needs to be let go..

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Sep 2009 7:27 #
amin1924
member

semirza,

Right, those people are not from tribes (or left tribes), they are city people who do not count much.

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Sep 2009 7:29 #
Beenai
Moderator

establishment ego needs to go other wise we have to let go Balochistan ...God Forbid.

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Sep 2009 7:36 #
Asli Moulana
Blocked

Majority ??

Lol

U must be very very mistaken Asif Sahib

Bengalis werent the Minority they were the Majority in Units of Pakistan. They had more than half of the total population of Combined Pakistan. Why do u think were they forced to form a coalition govt.

Read your history my friend.

Moulana.

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Sep 2009 7:38 #
AsifK
Members

Beenai
Aap kaay moonh mein ghee shakar (although i believe u r fasting) , lets qualify it , after aftari.
Inshallah , masses of this region will enjoy freedom & get their rights pretty soon.

Pakistani establishment will soon face another 16th dec,1971. Inshallah.

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Sep 2009 7:40 #
AsifK
Members

semirza
I would differ with your initial post. Baloch freedom fight started way back in 50's when Khan of Qalat was forced to sign accession treatry with Pakistan and Prince Noroz started the freedom fight.

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Sep 2009 7:43 #
amin1924
member

Beenai

Yes, the establishment must realize people's right and surrender their ego else it wont stop there...

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Sep 2009 7:50 #
semirza
Moderator

Actually this is written by B.Ramam the famous RAW topknob (link is there). Yes I have read that what you have pointed out from books about Baluchistan. Khan was not forced, but allied to the federation. Difference poped up later; thats is for sure.

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Sep 2009 7:53 #
Beenai
Moderator

@Asifk,
federation of Pakistan should be sacred for every Pakistani.
should u say these kinda things at a public forum?

if Pakistan will ,God Forbid ,broke into pieces .
where we all should go ?????????
do u have any idea ?
how big blessing this country is for us ...whatever is it .
despite of all the problems we are facing today .

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Sep 2009 7:57 #
AsifK
Members

Beenai
Masses of this region are more important than any federation or state. I stand for the welfare of masses .

waht happened to bengalis ? R not alvie ? Haven't they made much more progress ? So , whats wrong if breakup of pakistan results in the welfare /betterment of masses ?

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Sep 2009 8:01 #
Beenai
Moderator

@Asifk,
how many of masses lives in Balochistan ?
how many of masses lives in whole Pakistan?

have u any idea?
huge population can not be put on stake for some ppl .
no2..we even dont have idea ,that the whole of Balochistan wants so or not?

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Sep 2009 8:06 #
Asli Moulana
Blocked

He has got a point about Bangladesh

Might wanna try to refute him with a different angle

Moulana.

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Sep 2009 8:11 #
Red-Scorpion
Blocked

@Beena

"""huge population can not be put on stake for some ppl ."""

>>>

Wow !
Then why the hell Bengalies were marginalised by the Punjabi establishment ?
Now your statment should be rephrased as follows

'huge Punjabi population can not be put on stake for unworthy masses living in small provinces !!!'

BTW 'some ppl' i.e. Balauchis are the actual owners of Baluchistan and its their fundamental right to demand freedom !

"""no2..we even dont have idea ,that the whole of Balochistan wants so or not? """

>>>

May we have Baseerat to see what's really happening in Balauchistan !

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Sep 2009 8:16 #
AsifK
Members

well said RS.

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Sep 2009 8:21 #
AsifK
Members

Mirza Sahib
'Actually this is written by B.Ramam the famous RAW topknob (link is there). Yes I have read that what you have pointed out from books about Baluchistan. Khan was not forced, but allied to the federation. Difference poped up later; thats is for sure.
'
I was reading a few days ago that both houses of Qalat parliament were against the accession to pakistan. Mr.Bizinjo, being the leader of opposition in qalat parliament , initiated the debate and was supported from both sides of the house.

So , i don't know on what authority u say that khan was not forced to acceede to pakistan.

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Sep 2009 8:25 #
Beenai
Moderator

@Redscorpion and Asifk
no way in the hell i was defending or trying to defend establishment .
i am all for the equal rights to all the 4 provinces .
and as u seems like missed my previous post to this thread .
i have already said that Balochistan is a deprived province and the ppl of Balochistan should be given their due right.

but on the other hand ...i wont and never advocate breaking of Pakistan in further more parts .
as fall of Dhaka was enough of a lesson for us .
we wont let our country break this time.inshallah

no matter how many external forces works and propagate .

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Sep 2009 8:27 #
AsifK
Members

'as fall of Dhaka was enough of a lesson for us '

Was it ? What we learnt from that ? Operations in Balochistan , Sindh and Karachi to crush people who stand for their rights ? Two further martial laws ?

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Sep 2009 8:33 #
Red-Scorpion
Blocked

@AsifK

Hanging of the most pupolar leader of his time i.e. Bhutto was also 'a lesson' learnt by our Pak Army !

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Sep 2009 8:41 #
Red-Scorpion
Blocked

@Beena

"""we wont let our country break this time.inshallah"""

>>>

Federations don't remain intact on whims or desires of people !
If federation/center is hell bent on denying giving rights to Balauchs then it will be Balauchs who will decide future of Baluchistan not you or me, understand !

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Sep 2009 8:43 #
Beenai
Moderator

@Redscorpion,
and who are Balochis?
do u wanna create an impression that they are not the ppl?

its all a conspiracy .
and Balochistan wont break apart ,situation has been mishandled badly .
but it can be better as soon as the seriousness of the issue taken into consideration. and serious and concrete steps taken towards it.

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Sep 2009 8:47 #
AsifK
Members

Beenai
Lets watch. But a lot of people (including myself) are not as wishfull as u are . We are convinced enoough that masses can't get their due rights in this geography.

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Sep 2009 8:53 #
Beenai
Moderator

and propaganda works for some ppl .
for some ppl it wont.
Pakistan will not break into pieces .inshallah

u can read in the article that the Balochistan Liberation movement has been started since the East Pakistan ones ...East Pakistan became Bangladesh.
if it has to happen .
it would happen long time before .
but Balochsiatn never separated from Pakistan since the past 38 years .

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Sep 2009 8:54 #
Red-Scorpion
Blocked

@Beena

"""its all a conspiracy .
and Balochistan wont break apart """

>>>

Conspiracy theories won't help us anymore !
We can wish Balauchistan to remain with us but againt it's the right of Balauchs to demand freedom !

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Sep 2009 8:58 #
semirza
Moderator

@AsifK
What exactly you mean 'authority'? Do you have doubts about others who may have hands on experience/knowledge about affairs that may have happened a long time ago or who love to read and are proud of their habit.

I will come up with something useful for you in this regards as I do hold in my possession quite a lot of material of this nature related to Baluchistan.
Recorded history in the form of books and documents proves quite otherwise to what the likes of Bizinjos rant in the Parliament.
We should not forget:
Not all of Baluchistan is against Pakistan. Most are 'fiercely loyal to Pakistan'.I can travel into far off remote areas of Baluchistan without any fear, even now when there is trouble in the area.I had been to Mand, Panjgoor etc to visit some friend some time ago.
Kalat, Quetta and surrounding areas are Pakhtoon populated.
Iranians do not want to their part of Baluchistan (Siestan)
to merge into a 'greater Baluchistan'.
80% of Guwader has been financed by China. Their hold is strong and wont let go.
Indian backing of Baluch rebels is there because of the Afghan element. Even India knows it is not going to work as desired.
There is no resemblence among the two - East Pakistan and Baluchistan. We can discuss 'The fall of Dhaka' in detail at some other time.

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Sep 2009 9:00 #
Red-Scorpion
Blocked

@Beena

"""u can read in the article that the Balochistan Liberation movement has been started since the East Pakistan ones ...East Pakistan """

>>>

Plzzz read history of Balauchistan, as Balouchistan having insurgency since early 1950s !

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Sep 2009 9:04 #
Beenai
Moderator

@Semirza,
thats what my point that NOT the whole Balochistan wants freedom from Pakistan.

@Redscorpion,
i was referring the article which is under discussion here .
no2..since 50s this movement is on and since than ,Balochistan has not been successful in this liberation movement .
that means that it was not the movement of the public.
but only the Khawas of Balochistan wants so.

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Sep 2009 9:15 #
semirza
Moderator

Okay 1950s and what else you know of 1950s?

Have you ever met talked with a BSA/BLA member?

What exactly are the atrocities committed by the Pakistan governments (I will refrain using establishment at it is a vague term)Please name them out?

What exactly are the atrocities committed by the Sardars themselves on their very own tribals? Pls name them out.

Do you know the amount of royalty these tribal leaders have been receiving from all governments of Pakistan. Are there some visible signs of that money being spent on tribals?

Is it true that Baluch hate being educated. Or the Sardars wont allow them to acquire education?

Why the Baluch were reluctant to join the army since the last 4 decades? Only now they are joining the army in considerable numbers.

Do you know that 'slavery' is a reality in Baluchistan?

When you talk of Baluchistan than consider all and not just one side of the story.

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Sep 2009 9:17 #
Red-Scorpion
Blocked

@semirza

""Have you ever met talked with a BSA/BLA member?""

>>>

Are you still working for ISI ? :)))

Nops, but I've been to Pasni, Gwadar, Kalat, Quetta, and Hub many times !
In 1990s when I was studying at Karachi University, I used to have many Balauch friends, some of them were members of BSO.
The list of Balauchs' grievances is quite long, but issue of gas/petroleum royalty, issue of Gwadar Port, issue of cantonments, issue of basic utitilities such as gas and electricity are the major ones !
Moreover, Army and other agencies have brutally crushed Balauchs in 50s and 70s, there's still military operation going on and hudreds of Balauch youths are missing !

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Sep 2009 9:29 #
Red-Scorpion
Blocked

@semirza

Moreover, there is no Sardari system in Makran belt including Gwadar, Pasni, and Turbat but these areas are also burning now !

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Sep 2009 9:30 #
semirza
Moderator

Than what. Makes no difference. You have heard the second time China has issued a statement. One is direct towards India. Rings any bell RS?

Your account about the army is not correct. Army did not act on their own. Better name out the civilian leaders on whose orders army takes action or you are cought up in this false notion that army takes unilateral action. One Z.A.Bhutto (shaheed) is known when tribal leaders (Maris and Bhugtis) escaped up towards the mountains to seek shelter from nepalm bombs that were dropped on them. (first time this violation of Geneva Convention happened after the 2nd WW - nepalms and Un-jacketed (lead) bullets are banned since this convention). Do you know this as a fact.

Sardars, I repeat Sardars do not want any type of development in their areas. You speak about grievences, What happens when their fate is decided by sardars. Shot and dumped, honor killings, walking on fire to prove innocence, cannot leave for school as parents are slaves and bonded into labour for life.

Did you ever come across such people in your real life? Dont bring out the issue of ISI any further, it wont help as still nobody has ***** to confront them.

I advice you for some further study in this regard. It is interessting and useful.

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Sep 2009 9:36 #
Anonymous

@semirza

You said:
......I can travel into far off remote areas of Baluchistan without any fear, even now when there is trouble in the area

Sir, I am afraid you won’t dare do so now. The second and third generations of settlers who were born there are either migrating or intend to migrate. A number of people are killed every day, which is target killing.

You said:
......Kalat, Quetta and surrounding areas are Pakhtoon populated

Sir, from Kalat to Quetta it is Baloch area, not Pakhtoon area.

You said:
......There is no resemblence among the two - East Pakistan and Baluchistan

Sir, the goal of the later is the same as was of the first.

You said:
......Sardars, I repeat Sardars do not want any type of development in their areas

Sir, the situation has now gone out of the hands of Sardars. Previously Sardars were bribed to retain control but now it is different.

Therefore, there is an urgent need to tackle the issue wisely and immediately by our leaders, before it is too late

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Sep 2009 10:16 #
semirza
Moderator

Just to make it as short as possible. I usually travel on official visits and also where my friends live, any time. I think this short explanation should be enough.

Baluchistan and Bangladesh are two unique cases. However I may agree on one commonality and that is criminal neglect by the governments towards calls for the legitimate provincial rights.

A very large number of pakhtoons are living in the areas I have mentioned.

Dont mind my comments as this is for the fifth columnists active in Pakistan and there is an urgent need to seek, arrest, investigate their links and elliminate them through section 28, those who are spreading propagandas and thus providing a helping hand to the enemies of Pakistan. This should include some journalists, writers and NGO workers who are involved in this activity. Treason acts be revoked and implemented like it is being done in the West.

Thanks for the discussion.

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Sep 2009 11:28 #
shriq
Member

I have good friends from Baluchistan. Well placed and powerful they feel no shame in mentioning that the cause of plight of a common Baluch has much to do with the Sardari Nizam and less to do in comparison, with army interventions.
Semirza as you mentioned above, this is the real picture. The politicians, waderas, khans and sardards inflict their people with cruelties, they deny them their rights and put all the blame to PUNJABI based army.
What a common Punjabi has to do with it?
I know that these Baluch sardars take all sorts of grants/royalties from governments and when it comes to passing this on to their people, they simply say PUNJABIS (bara suba) is usurping their rights. It is the issue with which they do their politics.

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Sep 2009 16:03 #
shriq
Member

This is a bitter fact from the history that borders are not a constant phenomenon. The global map changes after every 5/10 years or so.

BUT.

Whatever happened in East Pakistan, who were the main responsible people is shrouded in past mysteries. It is easy for people from other provinces of Pakistan to point to Punjab for all their current miseries and breakup of Pakistan. There were many factors to the breakup of Pakistan in 1971. We lost one half in that year. But why is it so easy for you to say that it is not a SACRED nation? Do you want to say that it is ok if Pakistan breaks again?

I dont know if it is relevant or not, but in my office (not in Pakistan), there are Indians, philipinos and one Bengali who is office boy. He told me one day that he always prays for the success of Pakistani team in cricket. One day I saw hime quarreling with some Indians. When I went near them, all became silent. Later on Bengali office boy tole me that Indians were telling him that soon Pakistan would breakup and I was disturbed at this and they were making fun of me.

A Bengali disturbed at breakup news of Pakistan. Unbelievalbe. But it is true. They have seen that it is not the West Pakistan (or Punjabis for that matter) that was responsible for their miseries. As I wrote above, there are other factors.

And if Baluchistan breaks up, I would see how the life of ordinary baluchi would change. They are under the oppressive rule of sardars and would live like this for ever until or unless this landlord system changes in Pakistan or Baluchistan after their independence.

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Sep 2009 19:40 #
semirza
Moderator

Moderators will decide what is the outcome. And do not be offtopic here.

Posted 2 years ago on 17 Sep 2009 9:38 #
Beenai
Moderator

@quiadkamazar,
u r getting off topic too .
its Balochistan we are discussing .
what MQM is doing here ?

"@the reason im a MQM lover is because whatever they stand up and their policies makes so much sense. "

Posted 2 years ago on 17 Sep 2009 9:42 #
semirza
Moderator

offtopic posts are distractions attempted to divert an ongoing discussion. Cannot be allowed. Offtopic posts have to go.

Posted 2 years ago on 17 Sep 2009 10:16 #
AsifK
Members

Mirza sahib

NO royalty is paid to sardars for your kind information .

The rent of land acquired by PPL and OGDC is paid to land owners.

Royalty , according to pakistani constitution of 1973 has to be paid to provincial govt. First time , in NFC award of 1991 , it was accepted by federation and royalty was paid to Balochistan govt and balochistan govt budget was in Green. From the very next year , pakistan establishment started deducting gas development expenses from the royalty and thus deperieved balochistan of major share of gas royalty.
Even now, the gas royalty formula is different for sindh and different for balochistan.

I would really like to read anything u could share but i think u need to read a lot yourself as well.

Posted 2 years ago on 17 Sep 2009 14:32 #
amin1924
member

Asifk,

What would you say to:

The issue of royalties and the ownership of gas fields—discovered in Akbar Bugti’s hometown of Dera Bugti and providing 39 percent of the country’s total requirement—remained the main cause of conflict between the tribal chief and the government. Pakistani officials claim that Akbar Bugti was paid around $4 million annually in royalties, but used these resources to blackmail the state and build a state-within-the-state (Khabrain, August 6, 2006). Islamabad’s response, such as supporting rival Kalpar Bugtis—who denounced Akbar Bugti’s chieftainship—and deploying troops in Dera Bugti, led Akbar Bugti and his followers to take arms against the government.

Posted 2 years ago on 17 Sep 2009 14:38 #
semirza
Moderator

Members are aware that Nawab Akbar Bhugti was on the news a month ago and how much money he was paid by each and every government till he died-for that do your own research. I conclude it here and leave it for forum members to continue with the discussion.

Posted 2 years ago on 17 Sep 2009 14:38 #
shriq
Member

One of my engineer friend who worked in the area under Baluchistan sardars once told me (I am trying to tell you the ground facts about sardars). One of the engineering construction company was building a plant there. He was working as construction engineer there. He noticed a group of labours sitting idle doing nothing. He asked somebody and was told that these are the group hired due to area sardar's pressure (if the engineering company does not hire them, he would not allow them to work here). This engineer friend of mine said at least sardar is concerned about the well-being of his people. He was told "NO, the salary of these goes to sardar only, they dont get it". One small incidence of love of Baluch Sardars to their people.

@bebus, yes you are right!

Sardars, I repeat Sardars do not want any type of development in their areas.

I saw son of Nawab Akbar Bugti on news channel appearing in an interview with a wonderful accent of impeccable English. He must have studied abroad. But has Akbar Bugti built any school for his tribe?

Posted 2 years ago on 17 Sep 2009 14:44 #