PKPolitics Discuss » Social and Cultural Issues

inquilaab murdabaad

(71 posts)
12

  1. bsobaid
    Member

    When we talk of inquilaab here that will turn everything upside down and will fix everything and will convert Pakistan into Medina of Omer, we are fooling none but us. The kind of inquilaab I hear people talk about on this forum and on TV is like you are the last player on crease aur aap aankhein bandd karr kay bulla ghumaa dein is umeed mein kay chakka lagg jaey gaa laikin most likely you will get clean bold and lose the match or the ball will hit your groin keeping you from walking rest of your life.

    Slow and stready wins the race.

    Inquilaab kee haqeeqat from a human point of view

    http://www.torontomuslims.com/NewsInfo/Articles/tabid/97/Article/84/the-uprising-in-tunisia-a-different-perspective.aspx

    Posted 1 year ago on 26 Jan 2011 23:34 #

  2. sweettruth
    Member

    Inqilab Zindabad

    This is the only way to save the rest of the Pakistan otherwise we are going down the drain fast.

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Jan 2011 0:57 #

  3. Beenai
    Moderator

    zindabad or murdabaad depends on the answer of this basic question .

    and this question remains the same :
    http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/which-kind-of-inqilaab-we-need-as-pakistanis

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Jan 2011 5:14 #

  4. hariskhan
    member

    Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    The point of "revolution" which "comes as part" of political struggle is to "fundamentally" uproot the current system as it is, and replace it with a new system which endevours to conform to Islam's standards.

    Further learning/knowledge-gaining, understanding of Islam's standards is required, of-course which goes hand in hand with practice of Islam's standards in order to chalk out the details, on the "how" question.

    Some of the most pressing concerns in Pakistan are;

    (1) justice system / judicial reforms
    (2) governance system reform
    (3) land reforms
    (4) social welfare reforms
    (5) money management (at the state level)
    (6) management of policies related to money management
    (7) educational reforms
    (8) domestic policy reform
    (9) foreign policy reform
    (10) taxation reforms / moving in the direction of abolishing of taxes / replacing taxes with practices, standards, ways as per Islam

    These are the major areas that need reform. Without improvements in these areas, the rest of the crap talk means nothing to the common man Muslim in this nation. The common man will not be satisfied as a result of hollow, meaningless, worthless talk.

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Jan 2011 6:31 #

  5. dell
    Blocked

    Fareed Paracha and Haris et al. really know the recipe for revolution. They really brought a revolution is Pakistan's leather industry!!!

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Jan 2011 6:49 #

  6. hariskhan
    member

    Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @dell: If you can't bring yourself to have a "civilized" discussion, then it is "wise" for you to "keep away" from public gatherings.

    A good number of people on this community/forum "tell" me to put forward reason, rationale with my arguments.

    I wonder "why" they never "tell" you to do the same.

    We can either have an intellectual discussion for moving in the direction of betterment of our people (i.e., the Muslim collective) or if you really want to resort to word-brawls, mud-slinging, resort to the old fashioned ways, the way of the jungle, then we can deal with our differences the old fashioned way.

    The choice is yours. Make it a good one.

    P.S. It is "wise" for me to "let you be", rather than to "engage" you in worthless, meaningless, word-brawls which are only for "fun" and for "killing time".

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Jan 2011 6:54 #

  7. Beenai
    Moderator

    @All,
    please stop personal attacks on each other and focus on the topic .
    otherwise ,we wont be able to bring any kinda change .
    Beenai

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Jan 2011 7:01 #

  8. dell
    Blocked

    Beenai, Sorry, I just couldn't handle the fact JI has been bringing revolution in Pakistan for past 63 years when they didn't even agree with the creation of Pakistan.

    Haris, this is not public gathering, it's an online political forum. Anyways, there is nothing to discuss here with a far right religious party who is so en drenched in it's ideology that it has turned into a bigotry, case in point Fareed Paracha justifying Salmaan Taseer's murder by falsifying Quranic verses or the fact that during the elections JI announces from the loud speakers of Mosques that voting for any party other than JI and it's affiliates is a "Gunah e Kabira". In my district, JI actually stole many animal Hides after Eid Ul Adha, and this party dares to talk about revolution??

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Jan 2011 7:17 #

  9. ajhons
    Member

    Agan the same Inqalab fantasy talking.
    bsobaid Im quite agree with your argumment.Although I know Beenai will not be agree with me.I always said that we need a change within the system not an Inqalab.We are not ready to handle it.He had our share of Inqalab.We are not united on any issue, and this unity is the key element to start any Inqalaby Movement.Even on Namos Risalt(PBUH) I saw differnt flags of different parties in a single rally.Everyone wants his own version of Inqalab.We, the Awam, have to shed our political association.

    Although my heart is a bit faster this morning when I saw Eygption on the roads.Good Luck to them

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Jan 2011 7:28 #

  10. haider3
    member

    Long live the people of Egypt! And of every Muslim country now desperately looking for a way out of the horrendous situation into which west greed has cast us all.

    As for "inquilab", let me roughly quote Imran Khan: It will come either through the ballot box or through the streets. Take your pick, make your choice.

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Jan 2011 8:18 #

  11. ajhons
    Member

    And you already know my pick, MG Sir.Im not for streets.We already have so much blood in our streets that it will take long time to remove the stains.I don't want my aromatic white Jasmine turn into RED.

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Jan 2011 8:26 #

  12. Beenai
    Moderator

    inqilaab will come one day .
    and we all are alive on this hope ...
    it will inshallah.

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Jan 2011 8:57 #

  13. nota
    Member

    Here's our "Inqalaabi" leader:
    :-P

    "Hakoomak ko sahara nahiN day rahay......" :-P

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Jan 2011 10:25 #

  14. scandinavian
    Member

    "Here's our "Inqalaabi" leader:
    :-P"

    Can we call this statement the joke of the day? ;)

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Jan 2011 11:02 #

  15. Beenai
    Moderator

    one thing i am 100 % sure about Inqilaab .
    that it wont come by these tried , tested , old , over used leaders .
    not PPP not PMLN not ANP not Jamaait e islami nor MQM has the guts to bring revolution.
    if they have so , they would have done it by that .

    its going to be a new leadership.
    which will bring change in the thought pattern and revolution as a result.

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Jan 2011 12:23 #

  16. hariskhan
    member

    Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @bsobaid: I agree, slow and steady wins the race. I also agree with the fact that no Muslim, which includes me, no one will "force" Islam onto you.

    Yet, we will do whatever we can, in "wise" ways, to "consistently" call all mankind towards ALLAH ALMIGHTY, including you.

    --------------------------------------------------------

    @Beenai: In this instance, I don't agree with you.

    In Islam's scriptures it is said that, there will be a "group" of Muslims among you, who will strive in the path of ALLAH ALMIGHTY, till the end of this world. And that ALLAH ALMIGHTY will grant them victory.

    That means, that group is present among us. And it is "struggling" to call all of mankind towards ALLAH ALMIGHTY.

    It is the common man Muslims who are not supporting them. It is the common man Muslim who is running away from them. Its only a matter of time, that this will change.

    INSHALLAH, we shall continue our struggle till ALLAH ALMIGHTY wills.

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Jan 2011 13:10 #

  17. Faarigh Jazbati
    member

    @ HK

    "@bsobaid: I agree, slow and steady wins the race."

    Is that the reason MB is not taking part in protest against the government and the system in Egypt.

    And is this the very reason JI is not bringing the people on the streets in pakistan for a inqilaab as they are afraid of inqilab themselves. ;)

    FJ

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Jan 2011 13:16 #

  18. scandinavian
    Member

    I am afraid that JI is only capable of "defending" Islam the way the mufti is doing under the thread "Veena vs mufti". In other words only sloganeering and nothing which can put Pakistan on track. Can someone tell for how long they have been close allies to Maulana Diesel?

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Jan 2011 13:19 #

  19. nota
    Member

    "And is this the very reason JI is not bringing the people on the streets in pakistan for a inqilaab as they are afraid of inqilab themselves"

    JI and Inqilaaaab? Same as PML-N and Inqilaaaab (Or MQM or PPP for that matter)

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Jan 2011 13:24 #

  20. hariskhan
    member

    Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @Faarigh Jazbati: I am not in a position to speak on behalf of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt.

    Neither am I informed on their decisions, their actions/activities, nor am I in touch with them.

    --------------------------------------------------------

    My point in saying "slow and steady" was that Muslims need education, awareness, understanding of Islam in comparison to other ways of life in political, financial, social, judicial, defensive/offensive realms of life, before they engage in bringing about this revolution. That takes time.

    Why do I want to give it time ? Because we want to "demonstrate" "an example" to the rest of the world. An example of a "better" way of life. We can't do that while we ourselves are not aware of Islam, or when we ourselves don't adhere to Islam.

    --------------------------------------------------------

    From talking to local man from JI in my area, yes, I did note him saying they at JI want to do it with the least of bloodshed.

    Having said that, I haven't yet approached higher ups in JI, to "convince" them for "Inqilaab". Even then I know, they already have the foresight to know the fact that the situation is going in that direction.

    Personally, I am not in a position to enter practical politics at this time. I still have some private obligations to "complete" before I do.

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Jan 2011 13:35 #

  21. nota
    Member

    "Having said that, I haven't yet approached higher ups in JI, to "convince" them for "Inqilaab". Even then I know, they already have the foresight to know the fact that the situation is going in that direction.
    Right...and I am sure they fell just like Nawaz... ;-)

    Personally, I am not in a position to enter practical politics at this time. I still have some private obligations to "complete" before I do.
    Kaun jeeta hay tayree zulf kay sir honay taq... :-P

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Jan 2011 14:06 #

  22. hariskhan
    member

    Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @nota: We'll find out soon enough :D

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Jan 2011 14:11 #

  23. nota
    Member

    @HK
    :)

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Jan 2011 14:12 #

  24. NNL
    member

    To the believers of Inqilab

    Could you kindly enlighten us as to where the Sahaba Radhi Allah Unhu did an Inqilab ?

    Does the Sunnah of Rasool Allah Sallaho Alayhi Wa Ala Alayhi Wa Sallam support such 'Inquiabs' ?

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Jan 2011 14:16 #

  25. hariskhan
    member

    Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @NNL: Dr. Israr explains 5-6 steps of "Inqilab" that is noted from Muhammad's (SAW) example, in his interview with "Khilafat Forum".

    Why don't you come forward with example of Muhammad (SAW) ?

    Let's see if what I'm proposing is "contrary" to Sunnah of Muhammad (SAW), Companions (RA, RAA) of Muhammad (SAW) ?

    That's is the purpose of this discussion, all of this intellectual discourse.

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Jan 2011 14:20 #

  26. Dusky
    Member

    In recent development all across North Africa/Mid East religious right wing parties are not playing any role. In fact they are symbol of status quo, how dare they can?

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Jan 2011 14:27 #

  27. NNL
    member

    HK

    I m asking you for examples and evidences thats all.

    I dont know of any revolution done by the Sahabas Radhi Allah Unhu.

    I dont know of any Sahih Hadith where Rasool Allah Sallaho Alayhi Wa Ala Alayhi Wa Sallam said to revolt against the rulership.

    if so then please present examples and NOT SOME VIDEO BY SOME RANDOM GUY WHO YOU FIND TO BE GREAT.

    I will REPEAT FOR YOU FOR YOUR SAKE I WANT EXAMPLES AND NOT SOME VIDEO BY A RANDOM GUY WHO YOU THINK TO BE GREAT. START QUOTING SOME EXAMPLES FROM THE LIFE OF RASOOL ALLAH SALLAHO ALAYHI WA SALLAM AFTER FATH AL MAKKAH COS AFTER THAT THE MUSLIM RULERSHIP WAS ESTABLISHED.

    AND I NEED EVIDENCES FOR REVOLUTION WITH A ISLAMIC ENVOIRNMENT NOT AGAINST KUFR OR SHIRK. cos examples of kufr and shirk dont apply to us.

    Unless u do consider that then also explain why

    Jazak Allah Khair.

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Jan 2011 14:34 #

  28. bsobaid
    Member

    Dear Sirs/Madams,

    When in my original post did I mention Jamat?

    @Haris, your solutions are usually very superficial and do not present a material solution of problems. I consider solution as a clear path from point A to point B with a clear understanding of problem domain and clear layout of the outcome of proposed solution.

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Jan 2011 14:40 #

  29. bsobaid
    Member

    @Haris et al.

    Long time ago, during Nawaz Sharif's second government, I attended a Friday khutba where there was shola bayan muqarrir moulvi sahab who was presenting solution to all economic problems of Pakistan.
    He would say,

    " ma'ashi masla hai?? batao mujh ko ma'ashi masla hai? mein batataa hoon tum ko maslay kaa hull. Quran nafiz karr doo, ma'ashi masla hull hojaey gaa"

    He would keep repeating this phrase at the top of his voice.

    This is the same argument I have listened numerous times on TV that goes something like "We can eliminate corruption if our society and hukmuraan become honest"

    Now you tell me, what kind of solution is that? is it even a solution?? To me it is waste of time and non-sense.

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Jan 2011 14:44 #

  30. Faarigh Jazbati
    member

    Dear NNL

    Kia baat hai jonhi saudi arab ka ya uae ka zikr aata hai, foran jaag jatay ho, warna tu lambi taan ke sootay rehtay hoo. abb saudi ke zikr se itni bhi allergi kyun. ;)

    Aur haan inqilaab tu aa kr rahe ga aur tmaam corrupt hukmranon ko baha kar lay jaaiega aur isme saudi hukmraan bhi shaamil hoonge aur doo number saudi ulema bhi jo in ke jaraaiem pe hmaisha parday daaltay rehtay hain aur islam ka naam istemaal aur badnaam kartay hain.

    waiting for a hostile, angry and abusive response

    FJ

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Jan 2011 14:49 #

  31. bsobaid
    Member

    @FJ, although the protests in Tunisia and now in Egypt and Yemen are an interesting sight but I am as much concerned as probably Hosni Mubarak. These protests are lead by zealous and enthusiastic youth with no clear leadership. Such movements are highly prone and vulnerable to religious vultures resulting in devastating outcomes.

    To me it is a rewind of Iranian inquilaab but they managed the change relatively well despite Kohmeni due to their strong nationalistic tendencies, monolithic population and strong religious institutions. This is unlikely to happen in countries like Saudia, Yemen, Egypt, Palestine or Pakistan.

    Moreover, we all ignored or overlooked the fact the exact same phenomenon is taking place in Kashmir where youth have taken over the struggle and resorting to effective, substantial, meaningful and peaceful avenues to bring their cause forward with a high likelihood of a positive outcome.

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Jan 2011 14:58 #

  32. amreekiagent
    Blocked

    The confused middle class will always talk about revolution but they just do not have the guts to ever come onto the streets.

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Jan 2011 14:59 #

  33. Faarigh Jazbati
    member

    @ bsobaid

    I am in Maghreb right now and believe me there is no shortage of alternative leadership and believe me these peotests are not without a leadership.

    This leadership vaccum propaganda is done by the western media to malign and sabotage these changes. The problem is that west is caught by absolute surprise and they dont know how to react, hence the badmouthing the change. For them they dont have the alternative leadership who can fulfill and look after their interest.

    FJ

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Jan 2011 15:06 #

  34. gv
    Member

    @fj

    as a serious question - was it difficult to migrate to the maghreb? did you speak arabic before you arrived? Also what was/is the job situation like?

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Jan 2011 15:08 #

  35. Faarigh Jazbati
    member

    @gv

    The serious answer to a serious question.:)

    If you dont know arabic or french, the life is really difficult. No I dont speak arabic or french although I can understand arabic and I am struggling. The kids education is a big issue as there is hardly any english medium school and if there are any, they are either very expansive or not very good academically. The job situation is not very good unless you are transferred by a multinational.

    Mind you the country is beautiful and I love it.

    Hope this helps.

    FJ

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Jan 2011 15:13 #

  36. gv
    Member

    @fj

    thanks i was just curious as it looks like an unusual (difficult?) choice as a new country to move to.

    although ive always been told of its legendary beauty and i would hope the people would be friendlier ot a pakistani than in the west.

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Jan 2011 15:24 #

  37. bsobaid
    Member

    @gv, forget it, these jaahils bedowens are no friedly to "khadims". They are only friendly to their neeli aankhoon walee sarkaar.

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Jan 2011 15:29 #

  38. hariskhan
    member

    Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @bsobaid: Did you ever go to that MULLAH and ask him for details ?

    Did you ever make a "sincere" effort to get to the bottom of it ?

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Jan 2011 16:59 #

  39. hariskhan
    member

    Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @bsobaid: material solution of problems ?

    Are you not already aware of the problems/issues in Pakistan ?

    Are you living in Pakistan ? or have you ever lived in Pakistan ?

    It seems like your "expecting" a detailed report, rather than an intellectual discussion on "Inqilab", why to have it or not to have it.

    Add to that the fact that your "acting up" as if you have no clue of the problems, issues Pakistan is facing, people of Pakistan are facing.

    Seems much like an excersize of USA's parliament. Where they discuss or debate ideas for decades, where they make people build up detailed reports, that span multiple thousands pages, yet just never want to do the right thing.

    What's the "detailed" "report" worth, if there's no intention of accepting it, as well as acting upon it ?

    What incentive does anyone have to put that much time and effort into making that report ?

    I repeat: Are you not already aware of the problems/issues in Pakistan ?

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Jan 2011 17:07 #

  40. bsobaid
    Member

    @Haris, what does it really mean? You say, lets become good muslims or follow islam and the problem will be solved. Ok, how is this any different than saying if we all become honest, there will be no corruption.

    Reality is, whole population will never become honest or follow islam. Things do not change for better if people change for good. Things improve when there are systems in place and system is more than a title i-e Islam. If you tell me Islam will end corruption then I want to know how? if your answer is islam makes people honest and there was no corruption in the times of Omer then I say you are not presenting a solution, you are delivering a Friday sermon.

    I dont care about titles, I care about clear steps from point A to point B that result in solving a specific problems after taking specific actions.

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Jan 2011 17:18 #

  41. haider3
    member

    NNL, I was a bit taken aback by your first post. I thought it was generally agreed that through the revelation of Islam our Prophet (PBUH) brought the greatest revolution the earth has ever known. The way you phrased your comment, the point didn't seem to occur to you. The world's greatest revolutionary was our Prophet (PBUH).

    Also, true enought that the Quran enjoins upon us respect for our legitimate leaders however harsh their treatment of the people may turn out to be. Everything hinges on the word "legitimate". What if our leaders are not only harsh, but also "illegitimate"?

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Jan 2011 17:29 #

  42. bsobaid
    Member

    To me, the eighth ammendment and the joint committee between N-League and government to solve economic problems are good steps towards achieving the same goals many people are trying to achieve through chakka laganay kee umeed mein annkhein bandd karr kay balla ghumana

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Jan 2011 17:34 #

  43. hariskhan
    member

    Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @NNL: (1) Dr. Israr is "some random guy" ? That's new.

    (2) Why "after" fateh-Makkah ? Why not from the beginning ? Since that was the time when he (SAW) "prepared" the "jamaat" of Muslims for bringing about revolution

    We are living in a period in mankind's history when Islam needs to be "re-established" as the "righteous" "way of life". Looking at period(s) in Muhammad's (SAW) life "after" he (SAW) had already brought about the revolution would "relatively" be a worthless excersize. Why ? Because after Islam was established as the "righteous" "way of life", Muslims civilization never experienced downfall in lifetime of Muhammad (SAW).

    The relevant era to look at is when Muhammad (SAW) started from scratch, built a "jamaat" of Muslims, went through different "phases" of political struggle to bring about "Islami Inqilab".

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Jan 2011 17:52 #

  44. sweettruth
    Member

    Inqilab is coming and I can see it coming.

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Jan 2011 21:39 #

  45. bsobaid
    Member

    tere bin, naahi lagay jiya
    tere bin, ab tou aaja piya
    ter bin, naahi lagay jiya

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Jan 2011 22:11 #

  46. bsobaid
    Member

    It wont be an Inquilaab, it will be wrath of god unleashed upon us. I ask for His refuge and protection if such inquilaab occurs.

    If both N-League and PPP continue to cooperate and if they manage to get democratic process rolling for atleast next 3 terms I can see a sea change in Pakistan for good, only things that scare me are effect of war on terror on Pakistan and extremism.

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Jan 2011 22:18 #

  47. hariskhan
    member

    Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @bsobaid: There's a reason why Islam "despises" "ifs" and such words. Your "demonstrating" it right here, in the above post.

    Posted 1 year ago on 28 Jan 2011 4:57 #

  48. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    In the PNA Movement of 1977, the political religious parties showed the public the prospects of an Islamic revolution. Large no. of people took to streets and died.The result was Zia's devastating martial-law. The public expectations of a euphoria died in vain.

    Posted 1 year ago on 28 Jan 2011 6:15 #

  49. Beenai
    Moderator

    inquliab wont come in a day .
    @Haris ,
    u got me wrong ,i said not the present lot of leaders would bring Inqilaab .
    i wasnt talking about the public .

    Posted 1 year ago on 28 Jan 2011 6:16 #

  50. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    Beenai

    Naturally, the superficial class leaders like Altaf or Imran can't produce any revolution. They can only shout about revolution. They are no personalities like the Chines revolution leaders.

    Posted 1 year ago on 28 Jan 2011 6:21 #

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