Intellectual disability ! « PKPolitics Discuss

PKPolitics Discuss » Current Issues

Intellectual disability !

(88 posts)

12 Next »

shimatoree
Member

Living in this world of ours where laws, regulations, religious edicts, social norms are designed for the lowest common denominator- being intelligent and thougtful is a disability for which there is no remedy.

There are those that feel that religion provides solace and comfort and that belief in God and his Prophet is all that is needed .

But is that really true in life for the creative mind driven by the desire towards perfection of his labour.

As human beings we have to eat, drink water, take care of our biological needs( like all other animals) but do we have to think?
And do we have to think in abstract terms ?
And is that permitted in an Islamic dispensation?

I raise these questions because at one time or another what mental energy drives creative people also makes them feel out of place like a disabled person without a wheel chair.

The canned solutions provided or offered by people of a more practical bent of mind do not help.

Posted 1 year ago on 15 Sep 2010 17:38 #
haider3
member

shimatoree, you're not feeling too well, are you? But this is one of the most moving pieces you've written in recent days. Look, shimatoree, philosophy is not everyone's cup of tea. Using one's head neither. A thinker is always looked upon with the gravest suspician, and see what happened to a Socrates or others I'll refrain from mentioning. Ok, see what happened to our Giordano Bruno and others like him.

Follow the herd is the best recipe for an easy life. If one nonetheless insists on thinking out one's thoughts and, on top of it all, making them public, expect no less than opprobrium from all and sundry. The Islamic dispensation is just one case in point. Take any part of the world: original thinking will be frowned upon. You must repeat what the majority puts forward at any given time. Otherwise a job loss occurs, doors shut in your face, etc., etc. the modern version of being burnt at the stake.

So get used to being that disabled person without a wheelchair, shimatoree. Any wise person knows one thinks not because one will be able to gain anything by it, but simply because one cannot do otherwise. Creativity, to use your word, is as much a necessity for a thinker's survival as is breathing and basic nourishment. Just as a born writer writes whether he or she finds success and readers or never does.

Posted 1 year ago on 15 Sep 2010 18:30 #
shimatoree
Member

Mg-

your quote

" person knows one thinks not because one will be able to gain anything by it, but simply because one cannot do otherwise. "

is probably as close to truth that I have come across.

Thank you Sir, very much indeed.

Posted 1 year ago on 15 Sep 2010 18:37 #
haider3
member

Thank you, shimatoree, thank you. And now just carry on. And never mind those who carp and cavil and raise objections for the sake of raising objections. We are fully behind you.

Posted 1 year ago on 15 Sep 2010 18:43 #
toamin
member

being intelligent and thoughtful is not a disability, it is a gift and a curse :)

Posted 1 year ago on 16 Sep 2010 2:50 #
shimatoree
Member

Salam-

a curse is probably equally correct description.

The big problem one faces is that one is aware of too many things which do not seem to register with " normal;" people.
Hence one finds ones self in constant need to explain one's self and one's actions.

Awareness is another such problem where one may be able to sense or see things that subtle for others.

When a child is born with those faculties and his parents and / siblings are not upto that level- it leads to a type of loneliness which can become a life long issue that is in need of constant adjustment to one's environment.

Posted 1 year ago on 16 Sep 2010 3:25 #
dildar
Member

When a child is born with those faculties and his parents and / siblings are not upto that level- it leads to a type of loneliness which can become a life long issue that is in need of constant adjustment to one's environment.

It is very unlikely that a gifted child is born without having at least one of his/her parents gifted (just against my observation). Also a gifted child somehow is able to manage and adopt (pretty much).

Posted 1 year ago on 16 Sep 2010 3:55 #
toamin
member

shimatoree

i see what you mean, and understand quite well after hint from mirza ghalib who has remarkable ability of seeing through the words-

carry on.. plz

Posted 1 year ago on 16 Sep 2010 4:00 #
nota
Member

@shimatoree
"lowest common denominator"
aka "tyranny of masses" :)

"but do we have to think?"
Indeed MG answered that one ("not because one will be able to gain anything by it, but simply because one cannot do otherwise") though I would change it thus:
"not only one will not be able to gain anything by it, one can be certain one will lose a lot becuse of it. Yet one cannot help but do otherwise".

@Salam added rightly: "it is a gift and a curse"

Certainly a gift that ends up working like a curse thanks to living in a socity where 'tyranny of masses' rules. ("Kash kay hum bhi bholay hotay", a friend used to lament.)

But say you were given a choice -- blue-pill/red-pill sort of way (Do you the blue pill, where "the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe", or to take the red pill, where "you stay in Wonderland" and are shown "how deep the rabbit hole goes") -- which one would you take, despite knowing the "curse" of the red one? I think you know the answer. It too is a "limitation" that comes with the "disease"...

(I will add though that you can take the blue pill at any time. I have seen many a once-decent people do it (actually that covers most of the people I know). But once you do, there is no more taking the red pill, for then you become part of the "matrix", getting more and more tangled in the web every passing day...)

Posted 1 year ago on 16 Sep 2010 5:42 #
Beenai
Moderator

@Shimatoree ,
i have to read your post twice , before responding to it .
i guess , you are mixing two things .

set of beliefs ( likes dislikes ,Dos & Don'ts, Cans and Cants )are the code of conduct a person definitely needs to follow .and its not even related to religion only .u can see an atheist also following some given set of rules ...whatsoever .

and in my view , this set of beliefs is definitely needed .
badly needed and has a place in our hearts and minds .
nobody can deny that .
May i say ;these rules makes us a Human Being indeed .

as long as creative thoughts and minds are concerned .
these ethics are not stopping any mind to get creative .

i ,myself as a creative person in an ad agency , developing ad campaigns for soaps , cooking oils , banks , insurance companies and automotive ; can say this , with full confidence that no creative thought get blocked in my mind , because of my beliefs .

these are two separate things .

see all the Muslim scientists were believers , but they were Creative , in their respective fields .

Jabbir Bin Hayan , Ibn e Hisham , Al Khwarizmi (the Algebra inventor) and so on so forth .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Muslim_scientists

we believe , they use to follow a code of conduct .
but that code never hurdled in the creative thinking of these great intellectuals .

maybe , now as a nation , we have became , so intellectually corrupt and useless , that we always tries to find excuses in such lame arguments such as above .

Posted 1 year ago on 16 Sep 2010 5:47 #
haider3
member

Good Lord, I am impressed - and humbled. We are not just blogging here. It's a true discussion on a very fundamental matter, the loneliness of those who go their own intellectual way and the dangers they might incur.

Friends, you tell me. If Pakistan has people who think at such a high level, a minority though they may be, how can we go wrong in days to come? Thank you to all of you for giving me back hope for my country and humanity in general.

Posted 1 year ago on 16 Sep 2010 6:10 #
Beenai
Moderator

@Mirza Ghalib ,
thanks a lot ...mine was just scattered thought .
but i can see gems here , who are well composed in their thoughts and i can see great intellectuals out here at this forum.
and while reading the posts from these gems , i always thinks :

Allah abhi Pakistan se Mayus nahi howa hay .

Posted 1 year ago on 16 Sep 2010 6:36 #
toamin
member

beenai

you are a simple and gentle lady :)

i enjoyed your post above that segregates work from belief in a way that assures that belief is not really pulling us back from progress, creativity, innovation or development-

Posted 1 year ago on 16 Sep 2010 6:51 #
junaid
Member

IK usually refers to..without deen, a person is like intellectual animal. maybe a social animal as well..batain chand per janay ki aur aur zindagi 60/70 saal ki.
wherever we are going but indeed we are heading towards our graves.

Posted 1 year ago on 16 Sep 2010 7:43 #
Revivalist
member

It’s a gift and a curse same as oil for Arab world. If you know how to use it, its gift otherwise curse :)

Posted 1 year ago on 16 Sep 2010 7:51 #
nota
Member

@beenai
"i ,myself as a creative person in an ad agency , developing ad campaigns for soaps , cooking oils , banks , insurance companies and automotive ; can say this , with full confidence that no creative thought get blocked in my mind , because of my beliefs."

No argument with "no creative thought get blocked in my mind, because of my beliefs", nor should they BUT...

[I hope the following doesn't distract from the topic...]
No offence but can you do your job ("developing ad campaigns for soaps, cooking oils, banks, insurance companies and automotive") if you applied your beliefs to your particular job? Here I am thinking of advertising in a particular way, of course:

Advertising degrades the people it appeals to; it deprives them of their will to choose. -- Carrie P. Snow

Advertising has done more to cause the social unrest of the 20th century than any other single factor. -- Clare Boothe Luce

Advertising is a racket, like the movies and the brokerage business. You cannot be honest without admitting that its constructive contribution to humanity is exactly minus zero. -- F. Scott Fitzgerald

Advertising is a valuable economic factor because it is the cheapest way of selling goods, particularly if the goods are worthless. -- Sinclair Lewis

Advertising is legalized lying. -- H. G. Wells

Advertising is the 'wonder' in Wonder Bread. -- Jef I. Richards

Advertising is the art of convincing people to spend money they don't have for something they don't need. -- Will Rogers

Posted 1 year ago on 16 Sep 2010 8:05 #
Revivalist
member

A food for thought

"The word logic comes from the Greek word ‘λογική’, and in philosophy, it concerns study of the principles of valid inference and sound reasoning. Logic is very important because its use allows us to effectively present and refute an argument. Now in the context of arguing that submission to God is the way forward, I used the following:

1. Submission to a higher being is more rational than submission to a human being
2. Islam requires humans to submit to a higher being
3. Therefore Islam is more rational

I pointed out that the above is almost irrefutable. The only way to respond to the argument is by dealing with some of the presuppositions. In this case the presuppositions are,

1. A higher being (i.e. God) exists
2. This higher being requires us to submit to it

I continued by saying that we would have to shift the debate to the existence of God and the miracle of the Qur’an, because if it can be proven that God does exist and that the Qur’an is a miracle, in other words, it has come from God, then the humanist should also submit (since the Qur'an tells us to submit to God). However the chair, Dr Mark Vernon, interrupted and reminded me it was not the topic of the debate.

I agreed, but it left me thinking that we Muslims do not have to answer all the questions anymore, such as “Why do you not eat pork?”, “Why do you fast?”, “Why do you pray five times a day?” All that we have to do is just tell people ‘because God said so’ and if people frown or suggest that we are crazy, then we should tell them about submission. Because it’s more rational to submit.

If they question us further and scratch the intellectual surface by highlighting our presuppositions, in other words our belief that God exists and that the Qur’an is a miracle, then all we have to do is show them."

Posted 1 year ago on 16 Sep 2010 8:16 #
toamin
member

well said revivalist, but unfortunately our vision, knowledge and intelligence gets chocked at these basics-

we like to go into abstracts, create abstract objects/theories and play around with them, any time some one brings us down to reality we refuse to come 'down' :)

Posted 1 year ago on 16 Sep 2010 8:28 #
Beenai
Moderator

@nota ,
yes , you are deviating from the topic .
but i have to answer you first , before we move back to the actual and very healthy discussion .

Advertising is my profession ....
i get paid by my employer; for my ideas , my concepts , my wordings and my thoughts .
and i do my work with utmost honesty (which is a norm , rule and law in the daily business from religious code of conduct we all follow)

as an advertising professional , i have observed that if the quality of product is not good , then it wont make its way i n the market ,no matter , how good the ad campaign may be.

Posted 1 year ago on 16 Sep 2010 8:32 #
haider3
member

Good, strong reply, Beenai. No compromise with one's fundamental code of conduct and one does the job one has been called to do with the utmost honesty. I'm with you all the way there.

Posted 1 year ago on 16 Sep 2010 8:35 #
Beenai
Moderator

@Mirza Ghalib ,
thanks a lot for your support and appreciation .
but its the reality of my life , i always tries my best to be as honest with my duties as possible .
whether its a duty of a daughter , or a creative worker or an employee or a Mod of a blog for that matter ...
only God knows , how much am i successful in doing so ?

Posted 1 year ago on 16 Sep 2010 10:32 #
haider3
member

Beenai, just carry on. Don't ask yourself too many questions about success or lack thereof. See, Allah Talha knows our intentions best. He'll be the final judge of us all. I, for one, for whatever it's worth, think you're doing splendidly.

Posted 1 year ago on 16 Sep 2010 10:58 #
nota
Member

@Beenai
"@nota ,
yes , you are deviating from the topic ."

Well, the question arose so I had to ask. But if it was deviating from the topic, I think you have put it right back in there ;-)

BTW: I never questioned you "honestly doing what you are paid to do". The trouble is when dishonesty itself is the foundation of the work itself, what good does your honesty do? It is a philosophical question. Nothing to do with you personally (but I am sure you would take it as such, like you did my last comment)

I don't know of a banker who would not justify what he does, probably uses the same arguments. Of course what he does is legal. Of course it is considered "an excellent career" for which we or our kids go to school for years, preparing for it. Same is true of many other professions.
[I had another excellent example but refrained from using it for I don't wanna be shot]
But thanks for this bit:

"as an advertising professional , i have observed that if the quality of product is not good , then it wont make its way i n the market ,no matter , how good the ad campaign may be."

It does prove my point. In it, you realize, you are agreeing to the very issue I raised. What this -- to me -- is an admission that you do -- in all honesty -- use your abilities to made a good ad campaign for a product that is of bad quality. Anything less on your part would be dishonest! :)

Posted 1 year ago on 16 Sep 2010 11:08 #
rhyme
Members

@Shimatore

Quran at number of places invites the reader to "look"..."ponder"..."Read"..."Realize"..."Explore"...its actually against the blind imitation of certain acts by ppl...if you go through the name of different chapters and topics in Quran,you will find a variety of topics being discussed there..some briefly some in detail..from the Ants,the Stars,the Universe,the earth andplants,the Spider,the Moon,The Pen,The Morning Hours,day and night etc...so how can one say islam set limitations to human thinking and doesnt provide room for intellectual growth and developement?

also the early muslims,who were comperatively closer to the period of the revival of islam,were experts in the art of Calligraphy,Architecture,Astronomy etc etc i can go on on...Islamic Art and Architecture is something which we were once the owners,developers,introducers!!!...its just we have forgotten our past so this gap between the two sources and us has forced us to have this opinions that

"And do we have to think in abstract terms ?"

OR

And is that permitted in an Islamic dispensation?"

God is Al-Musawwir..He(swt) rather talks and creates what is related to creativity so it is wrong to believe that we aren't allowed islamically to grow a creative sense!! ofcourse there are some limitations but then they are for a reason and favour!

Posted 1 year ago on 16 Sep 2010 12:32 #
haider3
member

nota, if I may, just this. Are there many "intellectual" professions which are really devoid of compromises with one's conscience? Take a teacher, for instance. If you don't feed your kids the usual majority nonsense which passes for thinking, you're out on your ear and pretty fast at that. All civil servants are in the same boat. And on and on. Perhaps pilots and taxi drivers do their work without any compromise involved. Otherwise working for money is a form of intellectual slavery.

p.s. RyeMe, well replied and absolutely to the point.

Posted 1 year ago on 16 Sep 2010 12:33 #
shimatoree
Member

All-

I am overwhelmed by the very high level of discussion and the intellect of the commentators here.

In Pushto language there is no word for THANKS- all the words that are used for that purpose are IMPORTED.

So I am not going to say THANKS but you know what my feelings are - expressed or not.

Posted 1 year ago on 16 Sep 2010 12:49 #
toamin
member

i don't believe that at all :)

are you looking for an exit strategy?

Posted 1 year ago on 16 Sep 2010 12:52 #
Beenai
Moderator

@Nota ,
its just the matter how u see things ?
if a banker has been paid for dealing with customers , making vouchers , taking cash & cheques , creating a balance sheet and resolving the credit card disputes ...
and he is doing so with honesty ...
how you can say that he is doing a sin or a crime ?

@Mirza Ghalib ,
thanks a million for ur continuous support .

@Shimatoree ,
thanks to u for initiating such a thought provoking thread.

Posted 1 year ago on 16 Sep 2010 13:09 #
shimatoree
Member

salam-

I have told the truth about Pushto.

But No I am not looking for the exit. On the contrary I have just started.

Posted 1 year ago on 16 Sep 2010 13:30 #
toamin
member

shimatoree

glad to hear that -thx
i am sure you know more pushto than me :)

Posted 1 year ago on 16 Sep 2010 13:42 #
Beenai
Moderator

@Nota ,
with a broader picture , who is honest ?

if a lawyer defends a killer ...
do u consider him honest ?

if a doctor refuses to touch a dying boy ,just because its a police case or boy 's parents has not arrived yet to pay the fees ...do u consider him honest ?

if an engineer takes bribe to make a low material bridge ...and playing with the lives of millions ...do u consider him honest???

if a journalist takes bribe and create mayhem by his sensational and fake story ...do u call this yellow journalist honest with his duty ?

if a teacher is helping kids out in cheating ...do u call him honest with his duty ?

u wont call any of them a Sinner ....

on contrary , if a banker is honestly performing his cash and card handling and customer dealing duty ...
u consider him a sinner ...

as he is involved in Riba .

my point is ...
no profession is good or bad itself .

its the professional , who can be consider good or bad .
thanks

Posted 1 year ago on 16 Sep 2010 14:28 #
shirazi
Member

@shimatoree

First of all I must say you started fairly complicated thread here. Even after reading multiple times I am not sure if I fully understand it.

My understanding is first you complain that we, the humans, don't think like we do other things in routine like eating, drinking, sleeping etc. Here you are referring to abstract and out-of-the-box thinking and not just rationally adjusting around the canned solutions. Then you say even if that abstract thinking is allowed in Islam or if I may in any religion. Then you conclude even those abstract thinkers feel crippled and out-of-place as they can't take there thoughts to any reasonable conclusion.

I apologize in advance if I misunderstand or misinterpret your thoughts.

The canned solutions are result of abstract thinking that some humans did at some point. Democracy, Capitalism, Socialism, Private enterprise, Public enterprise, Political federation, Government, Religion, Housing, Transportation, Internet, processed food you name it every thing that we see around is result of abstract thinking by someone. I understand you realize that. But you are uncomfortable with the fact that very few think in those terms. Most of us shape our thought process around 'canned solutions' that are already offered. I think it's quite natural. We don't expect everyone to match physical capabilities of Usain Bolt. We should not expect everyone to match mental capabilities of Newton or Einstein.

There are tons of example where abstract thought by one or few lead to canned solution. Those who were able to transform their thought process to logical conclusion do not feel like in intellectual disability state those who can't do. Abraham Lincoln used democracy (canned solution) to abolish slavery but Iqbal rejected the idea of democracy after loosing the election and felt like completely misfit and out-of-place.

Your concern if religion allows that is very valid. I think it doesn't stop that until you start start challenging religious theories. For instance Darwin's evolution theory is in direct conflict with religious doctrines of earth, heaven and humans. Religions don't like that. Religions offer simple answers for masses that everything requires creator and God created everything but doesn't appreciate the flexibility to extend same logic to God. You can't ask who created God?

Again I apologize if I misrepresent thought process behind this thread.

Posted 1 year ago on 16 Sep 2010 16:39 #
choosy
Member

uffffffffffffffff.
itna mushkil thread Shimatoree bhai ...
mera tou socha hota .

mein kiya kahon ...
waisy yahan sub achay achay philosopher hain .
meri daal tou galni nahi ...
magar aik hi baat aapki post se samjha hoon...

Aqal ko tanqeed se fursat nahi
Ishaq pe aamal ki bunyaad rakh

Posted 1 year ago on 16 Sep 2010 16:43 #
shirazi
Member

@choosy

"Aqal ko tanqeed se fursat nahi
Ishaq pe aamal ki bunyaad rakh"

in other words follow Bush doctrine .... make decisions based on guts ...

http://www.crisispapers.org/essays/bush-gut.htm

:)

Posted 1 year ago on 16 Sep 2010 16:51 #
choosy
Member

he he he
@Shirazi ,
yeh mein ne nahi kaha , bulkay yeh Allama Iqbal ne kaha hay .
aur zahir hay kay Bush kay liye nahi kaha ...
he he he

yeh tou mujhay Shimatoree bhai ki itni musssssshkil baat ka jo mutlab thora sa samjh aya wohh usskay mutabik kah raha tha ...

Posted 1 year ago on 16 Sep 2010 16:55 #
hardrighter
Member

Nice thread.

@shimatoree

Unfortunately, the question you raised has already been answered several hundred years ago, when creative thought was punished as haram.

And although there are many who hold the view that "Creative thought is allowed in Islam BUT...", the reality is that one cannot be intellectually dishonest and be creative with that "BUT" at the same time. to remain honest, one has to drop creative thought altogether, Or suffer.

And for a person who is actually aware of the process of creativity itself, dropping creative thought in itself would be more agonizing than suffering the "wrath" for being creative.

Posted 1 year ago on 17 Sep 2010 0:17 #
shimatoree
Member

hardrighter-

I am grateful to hear - or shall I say read your comment.

I am in the process of writing an essay coming soon which deals specifically with this issue that you mention. The sad part is though the strangulation of creative minds and creative thought was done in a pre-meditated and planned manner using religious deceptions to the max by collusion of the kings and the religious sections of the society.

And that as you know has not changed . If you have any doubts please read-

http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/fate-a-tragedy-of-the-muslim-history/page/3#post-177537

Posted 1 year ago on 17 Sep 2010 0:34 #
haider3
member

See, shimatoree, reinforcements coming in! Bravo!

You'll win the battle yet.

Posted 1 year ago on 17 Sep 2010 10:29 #
shimatoree
Member

MG-

The only victory I would like is to change the mindset.

To have a free islamic society as envisaged by the Holy Prophet where the child of every Muslim has the opportunity to be humane, ethical human being- whose mind is free to imagine and think without anyone telling him that he is going to burn in hell if he did not follow THEIR distortions.
That child is taught intellectual honesty and critical thinking where he is not afraid to call thieves and robber barrons of yesterday as crooks and thieves and robbers . And not forced to call them saints.

It is going to happen and all of us can feel good about that

Posted 1 year ago on 17 Sep 2010 12:19 #
LifeH2O
Member

What if one is not getting answers and being answered for the questions and thoughts?

For me When i was child, every use to get sick of my questions. I still have them but i don't ask most of them any more. I came to this forum searching for one of them and here i feel myself a bit free.

Posted 1 year ago on 17 Sep 2010 12:44 #
shimatoree
Member

LifeH2O-

What you describe is normal state of affairs in the life of intelligent children who are inquisitive. All children are intellectualy honest and very capable of critical thinking.
Unfortunately in this grown up world- such intelligent children have to deal with the hypocrites and mental retards but the effects of stresses and strains of life. In the Muslims case- please add the rigid doctrinaire dicatorship of the Mullah inspired and modified pseudo-religion which on purpose restricts free thinking-

now you got it.

The number of psychological and emotional problems in restrictive societies is very large but if you only examine intelligent children- it is an epidemic.

I hope I have answered some your questions.

Posted 1 year ago on 17 Sep 2010 15:02 #
rhyme
Members

Sometimes the so called intellectual thoughts that our brain is bombarded with is just a result of our overconfidence and confused mind which is unwilling to accept the facts and figures because sucha mind is too rigid to believe that we can ever be wrong in any case....

I read somewhere once that one is "sufficient intelligence" which attracts a healthy debate and fulfills the intellectual desires and normally solves most of the queries and questions we have and other kind is "over intelligence" and a person having sucha kind is hardly ever satisfied with whatso ever logical or illogical explanation and reasons...in this case he so rightly is gifted with intellectuall disability...disability to comprehend other's viewpoint/historical information/scholarly literature etc because somewhere in their mind they already have decided that they wont agree...more like obssessed with superiority complex!!!....which is dangeruous as all their life they keep moving in circles...nevery understanding...never believing!

Posted 1 year ago on 17 Sep 2010 15:43 #
shafiq12
member

rhyme (please don't mind)

Ur experience about Intellectual disability shows that u once remained as intellectual disable in Past:-

Please highlight

Posted 1 year ago on 17 Sep 2010 16:12 #
rhyme
Members

super soldier

have u heard that islamic saying that when sometimes certain thoughts keep bothering your mind and u never find solutions then think its from satan...spit thrice on left shoulder and move on!!!

thats where im referring too! ;)

Posted 1 year ago on 17 Sep 2010 16:15 #
shafiq12
member

Rhyme

what is Intellectuality of this pharse according to u

Even in a book of lies sometimes you find truth.

Posted 1 year ago on 17 Sep 2010 16:23 #
rhyme
Members

super soldier

you haven't gone through the whole of this thread carefully where some ppl here think islam doesn't encourage our intellectual ability to grow nor does it ask us to have any sorta aesthetic sense...

Islam is a complete way of life and yes it surely doesn't encourage impure and harmful thoughts that for some ppl is intelligence and prosperous thinking!

Posted 1 year ago on 17 Sep 2010 16:44 #
haider3
member

Shimatoree, got you message above and remain in agreement with you.

Posted 1 year ago on 17 Sep 2010 18:16 #
shimatoree
Member

nota-

It's good to think - but not too much, scientists say
By Katie Alcock
Science reporter, BBC News
People who think more about whether they are right have more cells in an area of the brain known as the frontal lobes.
UK scientists, writing in Science, looked at how brain size varied depending on how much people thought about decisions.
But a nationwide survey recently found that some people think too much about life.
These people have poorer memories, and they may also be depressed.
Stephen Fleming, a member of the University College London (UCL) team that carried out the research, said: "Imagine you're on a game show such as 'Who Wants to Be a Millionaire' and you're uncertain of your answer. You can use that knowledge to ask the audience, ask for help."
The London group asked 32 volunteers to make difficult decisions. They had to look at two very similar black and grey pictures and say which one had a lighter spot.
They then had to say just how sure they were of their answer, on a scale of one to six. Although it was hard to tell the difference, the pictures were adjusted to make sure that no-one found the task harder than anyone else.
People who were more sure of their answer had more brain cells in the front-most part of the brain - known as the anterior prefrontal cortex.
This part of the brain has been linked to many brain and mental disorders, including autism. Previous studies have looked at how this area functions while people make real time decisions, but not at differences between individuals.
Illness link
The study is the first to show that there are physical differences between people with regards to how big this area is. These size differences relate to how much they think about their own decisions.
The researchers hope that learning more about these types of differences between people may help those with mental illness.
Co-author Dr Rimona Weil, from UCL's Institute of Cognitive Neuroscience, said: "I think it has very important implications for patients with mental ill health who perhaps don't have as much insight into their own disease."
She added that they hope they may be able to improve patients' ability to recognise that they have an illness and to remember to take their medication.
However, thinking a lot about your own thoughts may not be all good.
Cognitive psychologist Dr Tracy Alloway from the University of Stirling, who was not involved in the latest study, said that some people have a tendency to brood too much and this leads to a risk of depression.
More than 1,000 people took part in a nationwide study linking one type of memory - called "working memory" - to mental health.
Working memory involves the ability to remember pieces of information for a short time, but also while you are remembering them, to do something with them.
For example, you might have to keep hold of information about where you saw shapes and colours - and also answer questions on what they looked like. Dr Alloway commented: "I like to describe it as your brain's Post-It note."
Those with poorer working memory, the 10-15% of people who could only remember about two things, were more likely to mull over things and brood too much.
Both groups presented their findings at the British Science Festival, held this year at the University of Aston in Birmingham.

Posted 1 year ago on 17 Sep 2010 19:17 #
zia m
Member

A monarch said to a hermit, "Come with me and I will give you power."

"I have all the power that I know how to use," replied the hermit.

"Come," said the king, "I will give you wealth."

"I have no wants that money can supply." said the hermit.

"I will give you honor," said the monarch.

"Ah, honor cannot be given, it must he earned," was the hermit's answer. "Come," said the king, making a last appeal, "and I will give you happiness." "No," said the man of solitude, "there is no happiness without liberty, and he who follows cannot be free."

"You shall have liberty too," said the king. "Then I will stay where I am," said the old man.

And all the king's courtiers thought the hermit a fool.

Now and then somebody examines, and in spite of all keeps his manhood, and has the courage to follow where his reason leads. Then the pious get together and repeat wise saws, and exchange knowing nods and most prophetic winks. The stupidly wise sit owl-like on the dead limbs of the tree of knowledge, and solemnly hoot. Wealth sneers, and fashion laughs, and respectability passes by on the other side, and scorn points with all her skinny fingers, and all the snakes of superstition writhe and hiss, and slander lends her tongue, and infamy her brand, and perjury her oath, and the law its power, and bigotry tortures, and the church kills.

The church hates a thinker precisely for the same reason a robber dislikes a sheriff, or a thief despises the prosecuting witness Tyranny likes courtiers, flatterers, followers, fawners, and superstition wants believers, disciples, zealots, hypocrites, and subscribers. --Ingersoll-

Posted 1 year ago on 17 Sep 2010 21:46 #
haider3
member

zia m, This is good as was the very thoughtful comment you left on the other thread. Both left one with the feeling of profundity revisted.

Posted 1 year ago on 17 Sep 2010 21:59 #