TEHRAN: Iran has dug mass graves in which to bury US troops in case of any American attack on the country, a commander of the elite Revolutionary Guard said Tuesday, warning that a military strike would spark an ''extensive war'' in the region.
What a way to welcome!
Will America ever dare to attack Iran in your opinion?
Yes.
gv
Member
@Natasha
No because as long as they maintain an active presence in Afghanistan and Iraq it would an incredibly stupid thing to do from both a political and military perspective.
Plus Iran has a highly educated population with a very clear sense of national identiy. It would be suicide for the americans to attack them with an open front in Afghanistan and continuing presence in Iraq.
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
Yes. The west will do whatever is in their power to satisfy their animalistic urges to satisfy their lust of all kinds. They may change the way they go about it, but in the end that's what their objective is.
I would adhere to Islam's set standards of;
(1) war
(2) dealing with prisoners of war
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
@gv: What you are not acknowledging is the fact that Zionists/Unjust Jews + Christians + their allies are doing everything in their power to pave the way for Israel to take the status of the 'next ruling state' in the world.
That is their objective right now. ALL the hala-balo all around the world, around Pakistan is for achieving this objective.
After that comes the very;
(1) merciless
(2) indiscriminate
(3) unstoppable
(4) cold
persecution of Muslims on a global scale.
Keeping in mind America's troubled economy , and their fate in Iraq/afghanistan war - I dont think they'll do that in the near future. But then , you can always expect them to 'bring peace' to any land they want , any time.
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
You'd be surprised at what they can pull off, even now.
shimatoree
Member
I have a close friend who was in Iarn studying when Iraq attacked at behest of the West. Ahe joined the Iranian army and fought on the front for three years.
He has told me a bit about the Iranian's sense of nationhood.
Let us just say this. They are not something you want to mess with.
They are a fascinating people when it comes to adversity.
The best example would be what the hizbollah did in Lebanon against Israel.
Iran will not be attacked. US and its west allies only attack the defenceless and those unable to retaliate. Iran is just one size too big for their courage and capacities.
Abdul Rahman
Member
"He has told me a bit about the Iranian's sense of nationhood."
Not quite right. To fight for nationhood is not Jihad. Nationalism is akin to idol worship as Allama Iqbal said about Wataniyat:
Ye botkhaane me naya bot wataniyat ka
The Iranian Zorastrain nation or the Aryamehr nation was crushed once for all by Sahaba Karaam RA. Read Allama Iqbal sher in Bange Darah
Aa dabaya mehr e iran ko ajal ki shaam ne
Phir kis ne zinda kya tazkea yazdan ko
Abdul Rahman, now love of the nation is also part of the categories of shirk, is it? Well, in that case Pakistan is the most innocent place on earth of any such crime against Allah.
Iran may have been Zorastrian once. Now it's an outstanding Muslim country, whether one likes it or not. KSA and its supporters will probably claim: "Yes, Muslim it may be, if you insist, but Islamic it's not. That only we are." and so we'll go on and on.
However, whatever the reason, the west has as little hope of overcoming the Islamic Republic of Iran militarily as they have of colonising the moon.
Abdul Rahman
Member
MG,
We do not have the concept of a "nation" in the narrow minded western terminology. Islam calls for a Ummah. But until that happens there can be individual states on interim basis based on Shariah-Divine Law. But the ultimate goal must be to attain the unity of Ummah and implementation of divine law. Iran and Pakistan are no way near that cherished goal. Neither is the corrupt monarchy in Riyadh. You can label yourself a Islamic Republic or a Khilafat but that does not mean anything. The state of affairs of a nation based on Quran and Sunnah will not be hidden but will be visible and crystal clear for the whole world to see and emulate and insha'Allah those days are coming.
Iran is a wild card that West will eventually use for its own vested interests just like they used them in occupying Afghanistan and Iraq.
Quote"Keeping in mind America's troubled economy , and their fate in Iraq/afghanistan war - I dont think they'll do that in the near future"
America's economy was also in crisis after the end of the cold war. Then it had millions of about to expired arms,ammunition and nukes which were produced for a potential war with Soviet block. Later the same Depot of Ammo was sold to Saudi's and Kuwaiti's and every bullet was sold to the ****'s of middle east, resulting in Million's of Dollars rejuvenating economy of USA.
They will attack Iran but first will make Saudi's and Middle eastern block believe that Iran is going to attack them with their nukes.... Just the way, they fooled Saddam.
achtung
Member
abdul rehman bhai
ground reality yeh hy keh yahaan ummah naam ki koi cheez nahee hy aur na hee hoti nazar aati hy.
US will not be able to mend its economy (does it even exist, this strange, mythical thing?) ever again. It has lost the only base of power it ever had, i.e. its dollar monopoly. It will never regain it again. The downfall of the west is pre-programmed and coming about slowly but steadily every day that passes. And that, dear achtung, if you don't mind my borrowing your phrase is "ground reality".
AR - the ummah as you describe it will certainly come about, but I don't think it will do so in this century. We'll begin slowly, cautiously by joining up in a loose confederation first and then, after experience has taught Muslim peaceful co-existence will the next step be taken. Or that's how it seems to me.
KHAN_Sahib - Iran can only be attacked within the context of a serious nuclear Third World War, not just as a simple extension of the ongoing Muslim Wars. Is the West willing to take this final step in which finally their own physical safety will be in jeopardy? Your guess is as good as mine. The wilfires in Russia at the moment make me think it will not happen, this frightening nuclear war.
shimatoree
Member
Abdur Rahman-
Everything you have said has nothing to do with ground reality.
What Iqbal said is great poetry but Iran today is a country- much smaller than it used to be but it still is one country. My friend who fought alongside the Iranians against Iraq is from Pakistan. The Iranians fought like the Muslims that they are.
They did not cave in.
They did not capitualte on the advice of the West.
I feel sorry for you in ref: to your comments.
I hope youtr comments have nothing to do with them being Shia.
Abdul Rahman
Member
ST,
I was on the side of Iran too at that time but later realized that there is something terribly wrong with the so called "islamic" revolution. When the real Islamic revolution burst out of Arabia in 7th century no power in the whole world including mighty Roman and Persian Empire could stop it until it reached the frontiers of China and Spain in Europe. And this Iranian revolution (not Islamic) was stalled at its borders by a US puppet-Saddam. Why? If it was genuine revolution the oppressed mankind would have embraced it but it didn't happen that way. Petty criminals like Saddam were able to stop that revolution. Iranians should have taken a back seat and re-evaluated their strategy and the reasons for their failure. But they didn't do a thing and continue to make mockery of Islam as the Saudis are doing.
The root cause of the problem was definitely has to do with Aqeedah which is based on nationalism and heirarchical clergy of so called Ayatollahs. My brother worked as a doctor-Sarparast in Iran and was flabbergasted by the "idol" worshipping of Iranians. He could not go to any Masjid for prayer as every masjid was decorated with photos of Ayatolahs. There was not a single Masjid in whole of Tehran where he could pray Jumah without the idols-photos. If this is the trend, then forget any Islamic revival. The Ayatollahs have amassed immense power and created cult worship around them fooling the ignorant masses.
toamin
member
gv is right, as long as iran is tacitly collaborating with US/NATO in iraq/afghan war, there is no way they would launch a military operation on iran.. iran is their ally.. only if one can see the ground reality and not rhetorical slogans..
These kinds of acts have destroyed so many strong and powerful regimes...Hitler had also got same feelings but end up with defeat...During Israel Arab war Arabs were also got same feeling cause their numbers but they got defeated even Saddam also had same feeling when he attacked Iran but he also got defeated...Saddam also had same feeling when he sent his thousands of tanks in Gulf war and he was so confident that he called it "mother of all battles" but he got defeated in that as well....Now its Iranian regime doing the same thing which world's strongest regime did and Allah knows what could happened due to that...
Hussain Farooqui
Member
There seem to be no chances of any war between Iran and the USA. Iran cooperated with American wherever the Iran interest lied. In the cases of both Afghanistan and Iraq, Iran cooperated with the USA.
Salam Sahib, I often wondered where you were while we were sinking under the weight of our flood waters. So good you're back.
About Iran, the latest stories today: The Bushehr Nuclear Power Plant will start functioning by August end.
And then this:
Israel may not ask for American 'green light' to attack Iran
By Natasha Mozgovaya
Israel might attack Iranian nuclear sites within a year, if Iran stays the current course and the U.S. administration doesn't succeed in persuading Israel's leadership that U.S. President Barack Obama is ready to stop Iran by force if necessary.
So apparently the whole business of the Iran attack has now been put off till 2011. Whatever anyone says, Iran has a sharp, fully developed sense of politics, a bit like the Chinese or, to a lesser degree, the Russians.
Friends, think a bit, we've already sacrificed several Muslim countries to avoid a large-scale WWIII. Let's hope that's the only sacrifice that will be demanded of us.
US should never attack Iran. The more war hysteria grows with the Americans as success becomes far reaching, the quicker they will move toward a final solution - mushroom cloud.
alirazaster
Disabled upon Request
iran is following islam better than pakistan to say the least
iran brought a revolution on its land, it has influenced muslims in other countries as well... but to expect the revolution, which targeted the collapse of the monarchy of a so called muslim state, to go beyond its national boundaries is not justifiable under the socio/eco/political situation of that time and even today
and why does one expect or wishes the revolution to go beyond the irani boundaries when he accuses the post-revolution muslims of iran of idol worship etc???
Abdul Rahman
Member
"iran is following islam better than pakistan"
What do you mean by following Islam better? Pakistan is not a datum. For any Islamic state the role model until the day of judegement is the first Islamic state that was established in Madinah Munawwarah by Prophet SAS and his companions RA.
Iran did not influence any one. If it did, it did it in the wrong way. Iraqi masjids and streets are now awash with photos of religious leaders from nauzubillah- Prophet SAS to Ali RA to Hussain RA and other religious figures both old and new.
Forget about influencing any other country, they could not even convince overwhelming Shia brethren in Iraq to join the so called revolution and have to wait for American help to oust the dictator Saddam. Why is Iran silent to the American occupation when Ayatollahs kept fooling the Iranian masses with fake slogans like "marg bar America" and "great shaitan". Why are they not doing anything to the occupying Shaitan next door? Are they comfortable with the Shaitan's subjugation of a brotherly country? Why are they silent and not joining the Mujahideen who are being martyred every day in fighting the occupation?
Dear Abdul Rahman, Rizvi Sahib is right: Iran has been and still is a role model for many Muslim countries round the world. As for practising Islam better than Pakistan, it should be understood in the sense that at least no one is dying of hunger in Iran and their literacy rates are almost a 100%. So they do respect the haqool-al Ibad injuunction of the Koran Sharif. But that's by the way.
What I really want to point out is what I said above and which barackosama confirmed, too, in his comment: the fear and genuine danger of the outbreak of WWIII. How come only the two of us know this serious risk exists? Iran knows it, Turkey knows it, Venezuela knows it, Russia and China ditto, and, and, and. Much of their behaviour must be seen in this light. No open opposition to west behaviour. But behind the scenes, no holds barred.
Abdul Rahman
Member
MG, I would say the leadership and masses in Iran are not as corrupt like Pakistan. Compare the life style of Ahmedinijad and Zardari. One lives in utmost humility and moderation and the other mimics decadent Western life style amassing illegal wealth ignoring the plight of fellow citizens dying of hunger. Even Indian leaders fare better. Gandhi refused to wear a shirt unless all Indians could have proper clothes. I don't intend to criticize Jinnah but Pakistani leaders in general tend to emulate the western life style of Jinnah which was quite different than a average Pakistani.
100% literacy rate does not matter if you don't have any authentic Islamic education centered around morality and ultimate accountability to the Creator. Israel and West are 100% literate but are losers. They may have attained short term materialistic success in this life but lag in spritual and moral arenas. The maximum divorce, murder and suicide rates in the world are incidentally in most "prosperous", 100% literate countries. Sweden and Norway are countries that are very rich and 100% literate but have highest suicide rate.
Thanks, AR, that was an excellent response on your part. And you answered the literacy question in a really masterly fasion. Yes, one can have the most highly educated population in the world, but if, at the same time you don't teach them the language that gives access to the divine, they're toast, as one likes to say in some circles.
Let's hope Iran avoids that fate as it goes along.
alirazaster
Disabled upon Request
atleast least they do have a higher literacy rate. iran is ranked first in scientific development, its growth rate is outstanding and the westerners are worried. it is one nation that stands with the palestinians, supports hezbollah in lebanon and threatens israel openly without any kind of pressure. its resistence to all the sanctions and embargos is commendible.
making portraits and adorning mosques is another religious matter, and is open to debate... we have talked about it in other threads and you may open a seperate thread for ir or visit the faith and religion category to review the past topic about it.
and please, are you implying that literacy is something western, its something alien to islam?? islam puts great emphasis on education. very unfortunately, pakistan lags behind in every aspect except the negetive ones.....
no education, no eduality, no justice, dependence on the alms from the zionists etc.... if u compare iran, it is definitely far ahead... even the arabs are busy in all kinds of materialism
Abdul Rahman
Member
Literacy as it is understood today is certainly alien to Islam. The pioneers of modern science were Muslims and they were Believers first before they were scientists. Islamic civilization reached its nadir and led the world for 800 years. You could not do research in Europe until 19th century if you did not know Arabic. The material sciences and religion were fully integrated. Islamic civilization declines asnd we can dicsuss its reasons other times. The West took over the material sciences from Muslims but relegated religion to Sunday worship as its religious dogmas based on Bible were contradicting scientific discoveries. Everyone knows how Galileo was persecuted by Church for his scientific theories. Islam never had such "dualism" as Quran was/is and will be compatible with all scientific discoveries until the end of world.
Literacy was integration of material sciences and revelation of Almight God in Islam whereas literacy as it is defined tooday is purely materialistic sciences based on pure observation.
Please read this famous excerpt after 9/11 from Carly Fiorina who was ex ceo of Hewlett Packard and now aspiring to be Governor of California. She is recommending the fellow Americans to learn from the greatness of Islami ccivilization.
nlightened civilizations by Carly Fiorina (HP's CEO)
There was once a civilization that was the greatest in the world. It was able to create a continental super-state that stretched from ocean to ocean, and from northern climates to tropics and deserts. Within its dominion lived hundreds of millions of people, of different creeds and ethnic origins. One of its languages became the universal language of much of the world, the bridge between the peoples of a hundred lands. Its armies were made up of people of many nationalities. Its military protection allowed a degree of peace and prosperity that had never been known. The reach of this civilization's commerce extended from Latin America to China, and everywhere in between.
This civilization was driven, more than anything, by invention. Its architects designed buildings that defied gravity. Its mathematicians created the algebra and algorithms that would enable the building of computers and the creation of encryption. Its doctors examined the human body and found new cures for disease. Its astronomers looked into the heavens, named the stars, and paved the way for space travel and exploration. Its writers created thousands of stories - stories of courage, romance and magic. Its poets wrote of love, when others before them were too steeped in fear to think of such things.
When other nations were afraid of ideas, this civilization thrived on them and kept them alive. When censors threatened to wipe out knowledge from past civilizations, this civilization kept the knowledge alive and passed it on to others. While modern Western civilization shares many of these traits, the civilization I'm talking about was the Islamic world from the year 800 to 1600, which included the Ottoman Empire and the courts of Baghdad, Damascus and Cairo, and enlightened rulers like Suleiman the Magnificent.
Although we are often unaware of our indebtedness to this other civilization, its gifts are very much a part of our heritage. The technology industry would not exist without the contributions of Muslim mathematicians. Leaders like Suleiman contributed to our notions of tolerance and civic leadership. And perhaps we can learn a lesson from his example: It Was leadership based on meritocracy, not inheritance. It was leadership that harnessed the full capabilities of a very diverse population that included Christianity, Islamic and Jewish traditions.
This kind of enlightened leadership - leadership that Nurtured culture, sustainability, diversity and courage - led to 800 years of invention and prosperity. In dark and serious times like this, we must affirm our Commitment to building societies and institutions that aspire to this kind of greatness. More than ever, we must focus on the importance of leadership - bold acts of leadership and decidedly personal acts of leadership. With that, I'd like to open up the conversation and see what we collectively believe about the role of leadership.
I doubt if Iran is following the model laid out by Muslim pioneers of modern science. Their literacy model seems to be copy cat of western model. Allahu Alam
alirazaster
Disabled upon Request
it is ur opinion that there literacy model is a copy of 'western model'
dont u agree with the excerpt that u posted in ur last post?
it says that the west is inspired by the muslims, they are indebted to the muslims who are the pioneers of science and other fields of education and development. even 'IF' iran is following the west, then the west itself wud have been nothing without without the muslim pioneers.
i have been to iran 4 times and i have visited their meuseums, shrines, libraries, historical sites etc.... i can confidently say that iran is one muslim nation that has preserved the muslim heritage in its best form!... they have libraries named after great muslim philosophers, scientists, mathematicians, astronomers, poets and there is a culture of libraries... their education is much better and they top the male-female ratio in schools
they use local products, they have local cars, local appliances, local food products, everything is local... they put research in all that, the west hasnt gifted them all that..... infact west is trying everything it can to disrupt the expanding economy of iran and stop its scientific development
and i dont believe in western model of literacy and muslim model of literacy. i believe in knowledge and education
Hazrat Ali said 'ilm haasil kero chahay ilm kisi kaafir say he mil raha ho' and Prophet said 'ilm haasil kero chahay tumhein cheen he kyun na jana peray'
islam emphasised on acquiring knowledge, it doesnt specify or limits the source of knowledge
Bravo for carrying on the discussion at such a high level. Rizvi Sahib, I, too know, Iran quite well. I have a great deal of respect for our Iranian brothers and sisters.
On the other hand, I do know they have made many mistakes. The one I forgive them least for is what they did to Iraq during the long sanctions years. They contributed to the deaths of some half a million children at least. Sheer desire for revenge for the Imposed War Years and hatred for Saddam Hussein were at play there. And no amount of pleading could make them understand they were doing the wrong thing. What their present relations with Iraq are, I cannot tell.
So AR is not wrong to say they have still a way to go before we can call them the model of what a Muslim country should be.
Iraq could not have been controlled without inside help to the US from Iran.
You do not find Mosques except for the Shia in Iran. Iran was the mouthpiece of USA during Khomeini times calling it the great Satan. America used this scare crow of the Gulf to scare off Arabs so that military bases could be secured in that region.
Iran is supporting the Northern Alliance is no secret and we all know why.
Iran is involved in Iraq even today killing non Shia Iraqis.
Patriot, I'll let Rizvi Sahib or others answer your charges if they so choose.
I wish to say simply that much of what is said about Iran has a decidely sectarian twist to it. And is based in conjecture.
I have already heard Ayatollah Khomeini treated as a CIA-asset on this site. The reasons you give for it sound plausible enough. Except that it lets some of the Arab nations off the hook for their cowardly behaviour.
However, CIA-asset or not, the great Ayatollah was absolutely right to call US Shaitan-e-Akbar. That they are and will remain until their downfall is cosummated. Iran was the first to proclaim the Luciferian nature of the US construct. For that, I shall be eternally grateful to that country.
Abdul Rahman
Member
SAR quote: Prophet said 'ilm haasil kero chahay tumhein cheen he kyun na jana peray'
This Hadith often quoted to justify materialistic education is a daeef and not a authentic Hadith. Even if we assume it is OK, what "ilm" Prophet SAS was refering to here? Certainly not materialistic ilm devoid of God Almighty. As you also quoted Ali RA, we have to acquire ilm even from Kafirs but we need to integrate that ilm with Divine guidance to make it beneficial to humanity.
Let us look at the meaning of ilm as per Quran. One of Allah's attributes is Aleem meaning knowlegeable. So who is knowledgeable? Certainly the one who is near to the source of knowledge that is Allah SBT Himself. The ilm is not worth anything if it does not bring you near to the source of knowledge-Allah SBT. So knowledge as defined in islamic perspective is not the same knowledge as defined by secular materialistic education. As Allama Iqbal said about Western scientist 70 years back and still holds true:
Dhoondne wala sitaroun ki guzargaahoun ka
apni afkar ki duniya ka safar kar na saka
The one who is exploring the outer fringes of Solar system or Universe is not able to comprehend his own existence.
alirazaster
Disabled upon Request
AR
can u please elaborate materialistic knowledge or ilm?
science is just an evidence of the Quran, its does not support different theories of nature than those which are already in the Quran... the more a person studies nature, the more his/her believe in a God is strengthened
and what exactly do u mean by acquiring ilm and then "integrate that ilm with Divine guidance to make it beneficial to humanity"???
do u mean to say that ilm should be used efficiently? for good causes? like doctors use it to save patients?
well, if thats what you mean, i agree with that
but you see, ILM itself is not bad, and acquiring ilm is one of the things that islam has put GREAT emphasis on
and btw, its not just 'material' ilm that can be misused. i m sorry to say, but people today misuse the holy quran, the hadis and sunnat... such people are supposedly muslims, and muslim masses follow them and accept whatever they preach!
what is your point? shall we stop acquiring scientific knowledge? will you stop using all the gadgets and appliances that have made our lives so much easier, almost all of which are designed and produced by the westerners or non-muslims? what is the harm in it if iran is producing its own cars, its own goods, its own stuff, its own satellite, its own submarines?
plus, i did not misuse that hadis, i dont know if its authentic or not... but as i said, i dont believe in non-muslim and muslim model of knowledge? knowledge is knowledge from wherever it can be acquired...
and we do have to strike a balance between deen and dunya..... acquiring knowledge is part of both of them, and a BIG part.
Abdul Rahman
Member
SAR,
Yes but we have to have control over those gadgets. These gadgets are also destroying the planet. TV has been misused especially in West where young kids are becoming killers and losing morality. An average kid sees several hours of TV daily and is getting addicted to it and loses mental ability to think and becomes burden to society. This is just one example.
Iran can produce cars , submarines but not to destroy the planet like the West has done. When the Gulf of Mexico oil volcano started 5000 feet under the sea, US navy with state of the art submarines were called in to help plug the hole but they could not do it. They have trillions of dollars of submarines, aircraft carriers, battle ships and destroyers that control the seven seas of the world but not a single one could plug that hole that caused The navy admiral on CNN said those ships are NOT designed to plug the hole. One concerned American said: Sure you cannot plug the hole cuz the US navy is nothing but WMD weapons of mass destruction meant to destroy the world and not build or repair it.
Iran simply cannot have one family one car life style like West. They should not try to copy West and produce cars enmasse but limited quantity for their own consumption. Iran , Pakistan and others should opt for mass transportation and not copy West's decadent life style that is devouring the planet with ozone emission and other pollution. America consumes 20 million gallons fuel per dayand in order to have that lifestyle and is devouring the planet and waging unjust wars to fill her appetite for more oil.
The western concept of knowledge that we are blindly imitating comes from the Darwin's theory of evolution AKA bandar ki aulaad system of education.
Their idea of knowledge is solely based on observation. They don't beleive in revelation of Almighty God.
Islamic knowledge or real knowledge as per Quran is based on observation and revelation. This was the knowledge that propeled Muslims to lead mankind for 800 years.
alirazaster
Disabled upon Request
and as far as i can do 'tashreeh' of iqbal's shair, it doesnt discourage western education/knowledge.
it is about the intellectual development of the people... 'loge taleem hasil ker letay hain, lekin apnay shaoor, apni fikr ko ujaagar nahin ker patay'..... like perhay likhay jahil
as far as i can recall what i studied, iqbal to spent some time in the west to acquire knowledge (correct me if i m mistaken)
alirazaster
Disabled upon Request
i had more to say before your reply but electricity went off
anyway, islam prohibits attack, but its allows defense... so submarines etc are not made for defense... and they are not solely used for war puposes.. they are used for marine biology and deep water exploration etc
and do spend some time reading online articles and researches of irani scientists... they are not just making gadgets... that was just to give you an idea... look at their health sector, their transportation system... they self rely on all of this to a huge extent, almost completely
tehran, mashad, qom have development mass transit systems and its expanding.. iran is ranked among the top countries to produce research papers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_rankings_of_Iran#Science_and_technology
look at the 2010 rankings....
it is one of the biggest producers of natural gas and oil... and its the only country beside venezuela which has the guts to threaten US through this advantage... the rest of the 'aaeeyaash' arabs are busy in the show licking of the west...
you should see the lifestyle of the irani leaders as nationas are identified with their leaders. ahmedinijad lives in a two room house... just search it online and you'll find images of him sleeping on a mat... eating food with common people sitting on the floor...
the people of iran are very hospitable to all muslims
and do not categorize knowledge.... islamic and non islamic ans western etc... knowledge is knowledge... one has to make the right use of it... as i said earlier..... mullahs even misuse the knowledge of quran, hadis and sunnat...
alirazaster
Disabled upon Request
@patriot
these are baseless and immature accusations
in iran, people are not discriminated on the basis of shia sunni..... they pray in the same mosques by their own ways... the mosques are too big to accomodate more than one jamaats.. its we who differentiate on the shia sunni basis and expect others to do this too.... instead of learning something good from them, we want them to adopt the wrong ways!?
why are arabs such thumb sucking dumdums. cud they not retaliate? cud they not threaten the US with their oil supply? do you seriously expect iran to act for these arabs who themselves are too busy in all 'aiyashiyan' and non islamic activities? they trade luxury cars and building in return for oil instead of equipping their people with those skills to make themselves self reliant, they spend millions on beauty pageants of camels and horses...
and if iran wants to get rid of non shias, then why doesnt it start off from its own country where shias have an 89% + majority, the rest being sunnis and a very little portion of bahai, parsis and christians??
iran lost huge portion of its male population in the wars it fought which was fought against iraq under saddam's rule... saddam was the one who killed shias in his own country and in iran (both shias sunnis)... he was a US pawn... and when he was no more required, US cleverly hanged him and threw him out of the way
Rizvi Sahib, do not condemn Saddam Hussein out of hand. Sure, in his war against the Iranians, he was mostly to blame, although the Iranians, too sure of themselves, egged him on a bit as well. But he did wonders for Iraq itself. And his fight with the Iraqi Shias, in which killings were involved, true, belonged only to the first years of his rule. And as for the stupid Kurdish stories, that was all it was. Simply stories to arouse the attention of the West.
When a true history of this period comes to be written, Saddam Hussein will come out as one of the flawed Muslim heroes of the 20th century. Because, sadly enough, most of them were heroic enought, but flawed at the same time.
alirazaster
Disabled upon Request
i disagree MG Sahib
i have been to iraq in 2004.. trust me, baghdad is the only city that i visited which had developed infrastructure, it is a well decorated city as it served as the home of saddam, where he had his palace...
iraqis live in a pathetic state (shia or sunni)
holy cities like najaf, karabala, samarra, kazmain are neglected despite the fact that they generate a lot of money through the visitors who visit the shrines and other holy sites... an iraqi woman invited my family to her place and told us how happy people were cuz of the US invasion because it dethroned saddam.. little did she know that US was no better than saddam
and before america invaded iraq, poor iraqis who waited for alms from the foreign visitors at the holy sites were beaten if they were caught taking food or money from the visitors... there were 'caretakers' who used to keep an eye on the visitors to see if they were helping the iraqis, trust me!
shrines of Imams are surrounded by 'kachchi abaadis' the infrastructure is in a bad shape... saddam did nothing for the people of iraq
i failed to understand how the media managed to generate sympathy for him when he was hanged... may be it was because he was hanged by the US for the incorrect reasons :S
Abdul Rahman
Member
SAR,
A country cannot achieve progress just because it has skyscrapers, highways, mass transit, advanced technology, research etc etc. It has to excel in moral and spritual sphere too. If iran is in that category then it will really excel. No doubt. Time will tell.
Pharoah's civilization was greatest in the world at that time but perished after Musa AS destroyed Pharoah's pride and Kingdom. Pharoah's magicians were like present day scientists that were best in the world. Pharoah confronted Musa AS and asked his magicians to challenge Musa AS. You know the story of Musa AS and the encounter with magicians. Musa AS did not possess any magic but he accepted the challenge of the magicians and humiliated them. That was triumph of God's power over man made technology aka Magicians.
Allama Iqbal went to Europe but he "discovered " Islam in West and understood the hollowness of Western civilization based on false knowledge-material secular sciences devoid of God Almighty. That was the period of his learning and he understood the greatness of Islamic way of life that encompasses every sphere of life. Nothing wrong with acquiring materialistic education but a Muslim should be aware that it should be put in proper perspective in conformity with Divine guidance from Quran and sunnah.
AR, Good that you point out the effect living in the west had on Allama Iqbal. A real wake up call that was for our great philosopher-poet. And true, too. that any civilisation, however advanced, if it misses out on spiritual depth and dimension is doomed to fail in the long run. But you and Shimatoree have one thing in common, I've noticed. You are both in too much of a hurry to see results. The Muslim world has only now begin to revive from all the wounds inflicted upon it. Give them time. Patience, I'd say to both of you.
Rizvi Sahib, I've never been to Iraq myself. But I once wrote a doctoral dissertation on that country. Not for myself, but for someone else who needed the work done. I read up everything under the sun on the subject of that country to get the work done. One thing which really made me happy about Iraq was that it had a better health care system than most western countries. Back to education and gender equality: they had more educated people than any other Muslim country at the time and many of their best scientists were women, etc., etc. As for the state of the houses, I don't know. But this is again, as AR would rightly point out, applying west standards to the world of Muslims. In Cuba, too, houses were in a fairly rundown condition, but they, too, had made extraordinary progess in many fields others could only dream about.
Oh, forget it. Why should I defend Saddam to people who were pleased our arch enemy US hanged him for no crimes that I can see. Some will hate him for being too secular, others will hate him for sectarian reasons. I wonder why the Pakistanis hated him enough to send their pilots to bomb Iraq during that infamous thing called Desert Storm, whereas India refused to join the coalition and, to their great honour, Iran, too, refused to take any part in that preliminary bout of Shock and Awe.
shimatoree
Member
Mirza Sahib -
I am not in any hurry as I know Time has it's own tempo and Fate it's own time.
Saddam Hussein was good man if you ask the Sunni but the devil himslef if you ask the Shia.
We do not look at him in those terms.
He did bring Iraq to a stage when as you said the education and healthcare were as good if not better than many countreis in the West.
But at the same time he was very harsh to those from whom he felt a political danger.
I would say he was a modern Hajaj Bin Yousuf, cruel and inhuman yet efficient.
He was not a very capable leader and of course we do know that he worked for the CIA for sometime till Abdul Kareem Qasem was ovetthrown. He attacked Iran at the instigation of the West in 1980.-( I know this for a fact from someone who was a very close advisor of his)-
And since he was not a miltary man, he knew nothing about planning and logistics of War.
Inspite of what some people here say, the Iranians rose as one nation with great leadership and they defeated him. He continued the War with the great amounts of money from The Arabs and the West for 8 years.
Khomeini continued the War because he thought that this War would sterngthen the revolution (which it did) but also because he felt that they would remove Saddam Hussein and Iraq would become another Shia dominated country.
But when he was put on the gallows- Saddam showed immense and exceptional courage facing death.
That was his one redeeming gesture which will live forever- thanks to modern technology which made it possible for the people of the world to see.
But I have question for you since you studied Iraq in depth.
Why is it that Iraq always has very harsh and cruel political leaders ? From 3000 BC till Saddam Hussein.
Abdul Rahman
Member
ST,
Please do not compare that psycho with Hajjaj. It is no secret that Saddam's role model was Stalin who he emulated in ethnic cleansing. He was nothing but hardcore Arab nationalist, manipulated and later dumped by West. Remember Saddam's Baath party was founded by Michael Aflaq , a Christian Arab and preached extreme Arab nationalism. Saddam removed the name of Salauddin Ayoubi, the liberator of Jerusalem from school text books saying "He was not a Arab but a Kurd".
alirazaster
Disabled upon Request
scientists do not do anything different than supporting the facts of islam! it plays the role of evidence to the teachings of islam... it is still discovering why islam has certain procedures.... eg, how prostration help the human body!?
magicians on the other hand, PLAY with nature
MG sahib, please dont be mistaken
i was not pleased by US attack on iraq. i agree that saddam was hanged for wrong reasons by the US.
Abdul Rahman
Member
The example of magicians was given to prove that Allah SBT selected Prophets at certain time of history when particular traits of human beings were at their peak. During the time of Moses AS, the art or science of magic was at its peak just like technology is these days. During the time of Prophet Mohammad SA, Arabic poetry was at its peak and Allah SBT revealed Quran in Arabic to prove the superiority of Divine knowledge. As a matter of fact when the kuffar of Quraish were mocking at the Prophet SAS that he was just a soothsayer, then Quranic verse was revealed challenging the Kuffar who excelled in Arabic poetry to produce anything similar to Quran. Of coorse they were not able to produce something akin to Quran.
And if you (Arab pagans, Jews, and Christians) are in doubt concerning that which We have sent down (i.e. the Qur'an) to Our slave (Muhammad Peace be upon him ), then produce a surah (chapter) of the like thereof and call your witnesses (supporters and helpers) besides Allah, if you are truthful. [Qur'an 2:23]
Likewise Moses AS proved that he could tackle Pharoah's magicians with power of God. It is very interesting to learn that Pharoahs' magicians were experts in the world in their field and when they saw Moses AS beating them in the contest, they realised that what Moses AS was able to do was beyond the realm of magic and they fell down and accepted Islam acknowledging the greatness of Divine knowledge over man made knowledge.
Modern scientists are mostly atheists who have no clue about Divine wisdom and their entire reseach is made on pure observation. They are still debating big bang theory and have no clue what was there in universe before big bang happened.
Shimatoree, thanks for extremely balanced response to my defence of Saddam Hussein. It made me feel somewhat better. But only just. We have ever been thus with our heroes. Implacable, unforgiving. I really can't answer your question. I just read up on Saddam, not on the entire history of Iraq. But it's not for nothing we called Iraq the Cradle of Civilisation. They probably needed strong leaders to usher in the new era in the development of mankind.
Rizvi Sahib, to you too many thanks. At least we agree about Saddam's inexcusable fake trial and execution.
AR, I have to rush for the moment. So in a few words: Why do you find Saddam's efforts to reunite the Arabs so offensive? It could have changed the face of the world had he managed and it might also have advanced the advent of a reunited Muslim Ummah.
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