Iranis are a racist nation. They don't have respect for even the Pakistani Shias. The Iranis are purely Iranis for themselves. They are first Iranis and then Muslims. This is what I have heard from no. of Iranis. They feel very proud of their pre-Islamic history. They express hatred to the Arabs for attacking Iran during Yazdgard's regime.
Iran supports American war(140 posts)
Posted 2 years ago on 22 Sep 2010 12:25 #
HF, you've known the wrong Iranians, then. I've known many an Iranian myself, pukka Irani and shahdoost. The former were thorough Muslims in every respect. I think I said to you that I'd once worked for many years with them. Their hiring policy was a model of its kind. They hired Sunnis as much as Shias and they had no problems with Blacks either. They always expressed the greatest respect for Pakistanis (as do the Turks) and never behaved or showed any trace of the superior race complex you seem to attirbute to them. In one respect, though, they were extremely proud of themselves: their language. And who can blame them? Farsi is one of the most perfect languages one can imagine. But then so is Urdu. So we never let them get away with it.Posted 2 years ago on 22 Sep 2010 12:38 #
The Iranian Persian is so different from the traditional one that the Iranis of the present generation can't easily understand the great literary works of the scholars like Maulana Roomi, Sheikh Saadi, Jaami,,etc. I tried to share some verses of the Persian poetry with the Iranis. They could not follow it. The same thing when I did in the case of the Persian speaking Afghans, they began to understand and enjoy. The Persian called Dari is quite close to the traditional Persian. The Iranian Persian is distant from the traditional Persian.
One of my Iranian raced Pakistani friend worked in Khana Farhang Iran. He was a teacher of Persian language. He also complains about the racist behavior of the Iranis. Although, he himself belongs to Iranian origin from both maternal and paternal sides.Posted 2 years ago on 22 Sep 2010 12:54 #
HK, You're no doubt right about ancient and modern Farsi and the gap between the two, whereas Dari remains closer to its roots. As for your friends experience, seems like an individual phenomenon. Our contacts with the Iranians were on a collective basis. In our years with them, we saw hundreds of them from all walks of life. And not one non-Iranian ever complained about anything approaching racism from them. Which is again not to proclaim Iran and Iranians free from all defects. Racists there are the world over. They can be awfully stubborn and stupid at times. And I myself quit them on matters of principle.
But, again, they were good Muslims and trying hard to withstand the glamour of the West and their insane world hegemony policies.Posted 2 years ago on 22 Sep 2010 13:23 #
The best shape of Shia Sunni unity exists in Yemen. The Zaidi Shias and the Yemni Sunnis offer prayers together in the same mosques. The Imams of both Zaidia Shias and the Yemni Sunnis have agreed on offering prayers behind the Imams of each other. Similar unity needs to be established everywhere.Posted 2 years ago on 22 Sep 2010 13:45 #
The reason is that the Shia Zaidis are not hardcore, many of them are not even Twelver, that's why in Arabian Gulf many Shias pray along side the Sunnis behind a Sunni Imam. The Zaidiyya is probably the only dominant cross faith group, others are Jaferis and Rizvis. Zaidi Shias have occassionally Zaidi Sunni family members. These Sunni Zaidis probably split from the Shias in India some 150-200 years ago and become Barelvis but kept on certain traditions. Zaidis whether Shias or Sunnis always trace their lineage to Yemen.
However, I don't understand like evey Jew of the world has to support Israel, why every Shia of the world is scrupulous and conscientious about Iran?
Mirza Ghalib should help, won't you sir?Posted 2 years ago on 22 Sep 2010 23:00 #
<FONT face=Calibri>Haroon I have very little clue of what you are saying but 2 things
1.I have been to Iran, so all you state are lies and in case anyone doubts that I am lying, Iran is just next door, travel there and see for yourself, you will see the lies of such ignorant bigots exposed.
2.Haroon You are they byproduct of Saudi propaganda
Arab States Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Oman just bought arms worth 123 billion dollars to protect from Iran. They couldn’t even give one five billion together to aid flood victims in Pakistan, or help the Palestinians. But the just aided the failing economy of the US and also provided them bases in the region. So my question to bigots like AR is what about your Saudis are they Gods now?
Iran supports Hamas who are Palestinian both by funds and military assistance whilst Egypt and jordan actually aided the blockade of Palestinians in the west bank. Iran has always stood for the peaceful settlement of Kahsmir issue, its is the Saudi aligned Us i.e. American knave Pakistan who have cut our selves off from the Iranians and then we blame them for being cutt off? wow we cut them off and now we blame them.</FONT>Posted 2 years ago on 23 Sep 2010 5:15 #
<FONT face=Calibri>As for Iraq who says Iran didn’t help, who do you think US blamed for the IEDs?
Muqtada Al sadr and his Mehdi militia killed scores of American soldiers, what lies are you making and you have the nerve to speak ill about hezbollah the only force that secured a victory against almighty Israel whilst fighting with mere means for over a month, all Arab states wilted within days in the war against Israel. If Isreal or America was to make drone attacked inside Lebanon the Hezbollah truly an army of god will again fight them so will Iran, they are not toothless like us. Let us not forget the campign of terror inside Iraq where by American/Jewish/Saudi led terrorists are continuously bombing Iraq, Badghada shia neigbour hoods, shias of Kerbal, Najaf, all place, so many bombing going off even now, When the TTP bomb Pakistanis civilians is that righteous.? No Sadr is biding his time, the US will leave Iraq anyway and then US backed Saudi Wahabi terrorists who are trying to cause sectarians violence amongst shias and sunnis will be cut down to size. </FONT>Posted 2 years ago on 23 Sep 2010 5:16 #
<FONT face=Calibri>AR even if US and Israel both attacked Iran bigoted sellouts like you will still say Iran is allied to the US, if millions of Iranians were killed you will say Iranians are allied to US because you have nothing but bigoted hate filled inside you.
Even now these Arab states are letting US have bases and clearance to attack Iran because Iran will never retaliate against a fellow Muslim country. Any you Saudi propaganda fed bigoted Us sellout liars are blaming Iran?</FONT>Posted 2 years ago on 23 Sep 2010 5:18 #
<FONT face=Calibri>Some element of racism by some Iranians cannot be ruled out they are humans not angles, they are also one of the most ancient civilizations of the world, and rich in culture, what Arabs have the right to be proud and Iranians don’t? it is a very good thing that they take pride in themselves which we don’t.
HF how racist are the Arabs, how do they treat Pakistanis? Why do you not mention that. In fact we are racist one day in a minibus there were some Sudanese KU students travelling i don’t know if they spoke urdu but the bus conductor and few other laborers uneducated ruffians were making fun of our brethren Muslim educated students because of the color of their skin!! </FONT>
<FONT face=Calibri>Accusation against Iran must be based on reality and yes there is some truth to some amount of racism in a section of Iranian population that I concede, but after having refuted him countless time which AR like a proper Sauid/US puppet refuses to read or refute I must say there is very little credibility to the remaining lies that are being spewed against Iran here.</FONT>Posted 2 years ago on 23 Sep 2010 5:19 #
I am complainant about the insulting behaviors of both Iranis and Arabs. Both treat the Pakistanis like dogs. Iranis don't treat even the Pakistani Shias with any respect and so is the behavior of the Saudi Sunnis with the Pakistani Sunnis. Dear Friend, this is what I tried to express on my thread of 'Disasters of Sectarianism'.
We often get entangled with each other in the defense of these foreign countries and thus spoil our Pakistani unity. Let us care for Pakistan and the Pakistanis, the Iranis and Arabs are useless for us. We should not let these countries bring any war of theirs in our beloved country. We have been living together for centuries and will Inshal Allah continue to live the same way.
Please mind the fact that all the Jews support Israel because it is their country. Any Jew can go to Israel and settle down. Can any Pakistani Shia go to Iran and settle down? or Can any Pakistani Sunni go to the Arab states and settle down? No is the answer to both of the questions.
The country of Pakstani Shias or Sunnis is only Pakistan.. We have to safeguard the interests of our beloved country. .Posted 2 years ago on 23 Sep 2010 6:16 #
Most Pakistani Sunnis or Sunnis of the world are against Saudi Arabia. All Pakistani Shias or all Shias of the world, whether Saudi, Bahraini, Afghani are poltically inclined toward Iran and impressed with Iran model. Considering they are at risk among the Sunnis, all Shias of the world should move to Iran and parts of Iraq so we get a more clear Israel-Iran nexus.Posted 2 years ago on 23 Sep 2010 10:38 #
Well, BO, You addressed me by name earlier on and sorry I didn't respond then. I've just come across your comment.
Your question was why do Shia the world over support Iran just like the Jewish diaspora gives support to Israel? Well, for sure, not because they are Jewish in any way or take Jews as their model.
The very first answer that occurs is they find the Islamic Republic of Iran admirable. Why that? Well, they were the second Muslim country in the 20th centuy to venture upon a revolution in the name of the faith (the first being Pakistan, but no one really agrees with me on this one). And since the Revolution, they have struggled and striven to keep their country on the straight and narrow path of virtue. It is only over the past decade or so that some high ranking Iranians have allowed themselves to be bought up by the Zionists to spread trouble in Iran.
Iran's stand on Palestine is impeccable. They have held out the hand of friendship to all Muslim countries almost without exception, including the worst of the Arab nations. But as Not Possible said, they are human beings, not angels and sometimes they too have shown signs of injustice and in that respect we must always cite the sad sanction years in Iraq.
We, outside of Iran, have always looked to them for guidance in political matters, because they are born with a sense of how to run a country. They have not seriously betrayed Islam. They are anti-West, whatever the PR chiefs might be propagating. I have heard Sunni and Shia both glowing with pride to hear their President speak and at the same time bemoaning the fact that our own politicians know nothing but how to pile on vile flattery towards all things western.
And last but not least, they are not just talk, they happen to be the best fighters in Islam today, alongside the Afghan Resistance. They would lay down their lives for Islam and country without giving the matter a second thought. No wonder Shias the world over look towards them with utmost respect.
BTW Not Possible, AR has never expressed the least support for Saudi Arabia in any of his posts. His faith is a more subtle thing than the usual blind stuff we tend to hear. A lot can be learnt from him as well. At least, I find it to be so.Posted 2 years ago on 23 Sep 2010 11:51 #
MG-The un-champions of "tolerance" have spoken.And you have wondered why I am so bitter.We are like an intellectual donkey who was carrying a lot of dead weight on his back for 1400 years- and these people keep putting more and more dead weight on his back.Ossification of mind ?Posted 2 years ago on 23 Sep 2010 13:00 #
Dear shimatoree, pay no heed. The days of those you call so fittingly the "un-champions of tolerance" are numbered. We are in a new century, the first decade of which is coming to an end. We have started off disastrously, but for the sake of coming generations I absolutely cling to the thought that the 21st century will bring us liberation from many of the things that held us back in the past. Otherwise there's no survival for any of us, not in the East and equally not in the West. And like the threat of execution, the threat of extinction beautifully concentrates the human mind.Posted 2 years ago on 23 Sep 2010 13:31 #
MG-you are begining to sound like a philosopher and thinker-( Hallaj)and the thought police is coming after you too!Be careful !Posted 2 years ago on 23 Sep 2010 14:02 #
Thanks shimatoree, shall bear your warning in mind. Best thing to do then would be to shut up completely.Posted 2 years ago on 23 Sep 2010 14:13 #
mirza ghalib bhai
"Otherwise there's no survival for any of us, not in the East and equally not in the West"
the fear is that this fear of you may be ultimate result in coming time. if we start disastrously we end disastrously. instead of wishful thinking, we need to see what is wrong with us. how we can improve future of our coming generation. how we can learn to live peacefully with others.Posted 2 years ago on 23 Sep 2010 14:18 #
Hi achtung. You came late upon the scene, but at least you came. Thanks.
Now I wholly agree with what you say about our needing to see what is wrong with us and how we can improve the future of our coming generation. Also the bit about learning to live peacefully with others.
What I don't quite see follows is that one starts off disastrously, one must necessarily end that way as well. There are another 90 long years ahead of us to make some kind of a valid century out of this one. Or is that also no more than "wishful thinking" according to you?Posted 2 years ago on 23 Sep 2010 14:31 #
mirza ghalib bhai
i wish next 90 years bring peace and prosperity for our coming generations. thnx for responding.Posted 2 years ago on 23 Sep 2010 14:35 #
Thank you, achtung, thank you. I have to go out now. I'll be back later and look forward to further exchanges and good news.Posted 2 years ago on 23 Sep 2010 14:45 #
Where's the beef?
What is admirable about the revolution, if any thing there is an iron fist rule, the masses are desperate to migrate out of the country. Moussavi, Nida Agha and Mohammad Mostafaei, the lawyer and rift between Khatemi and Ahmedenajad only echo the news of a distressful, crumbling system. The new generation knows nothing about the revolution and don't give a ****. Ahmedinejad says we don't have gays in Iran like you do, yet he hangs blokes for homosexuality, even more, there are hidden **** clubs.
Their support for Palestine is superficial. Technically, as per Shia doctrine the Palestinians are not Momins in the first place to be qualified for waging Jihad. It is clear that the support is to establish a continuous Irani influence on the third holiest site of Islam, as a counter measure toward Sunni Saudi Arabia.
Anti-west rhetoric is hardly any qualification for one's fervor for Islam. Moreover 40% Shia Lebanon, 75% Shia Azerbaijan and 60% Shia Bahrain are pro-western and apparently do well. Why not look toward them? So why not just say that the religious seat is based off Iran, like all Catholics look at the Vatican and the Pope with deep respect.
Friendship to Muslim countries? Take their neighbor for instance, Pakistan. Their influence in Afghanistan and meddling in Pakistan is obvious. They put us on the spotlight by pointing they got the nuke tech from us. Iran defies Pakistan sovereignty like the US when their special forces rescue diplomats in cross border operation on our soil.
Best fighters? In recent past of 30 years they only fought with Saddam's Iraq which was an indecisive battle. What example of their display of battlefield bravery you have?
I reckon your respect to them and all of the other faithfuls is mired in religion by pompous papacy, pseudo-scientific gobbledygook and nothing more than pontifical hooey.Posted 2 years ago on 23 Sep 2010 22:47 #
Thanks BO, this has turned out to be your longest post to me so far, harsh and forcefully expressed. I hardly know how to reply to it. But let's give it a shot all the same.
About the masses wishing to migrate. I remember Ayatollah Khomeiny in his last message to the people of Iran wrote that his countrymen, even if they caught the common cold would feel like rushing to the West for medication. So nothing new there. The Iranians are like the Pakistanis enamoured of the West, but that is the elite. The ordinary Iranians love their country deeply. It's their lives that have changed very much for the better after the Revolution. About the gays, sorry, BO, I know nothing whatsoever, except that a **** Saudi diplomat recently asked for asylum in the US, fearing to be put to the death if he returned home. You must have heard about it too.
As regards the Palestinians, again, seems to me, you are trying to turn the Shia into something like the Jews. Not fair tactics, BO, not fair. And equally turning their concern for Palestine into a pawn in the power game with KSA is unfair. Unworthy of a Muslim. We'll leave Azarbaijan and Bahrain aside and concentrate on Lebanon alone. That country is in no way pro-west. Quite the contrary.
So after the Jews, we get the Catholics. Now tell me, then, would it be fair to say Mecca and Medina are the Muslim equivalents of the Vatican or that the KSA is? And the Ruling House our Muslim Pope and cardinals? In any case, I refuse to attack the Wahabis. To my mind before anyone belongs to any sect, he or she happens to be a Muslim.
You don't even accept Iran's deep friendship with Pakistan, then what am I too say? If they are meddling in Pakistan, as you say, then it's on a very small scale and vastly compensated by all the assistance it gives this country in various ways, much of which never reaches the public domain. BO, you probably won't like this, just as NNL didn't, I'm no seer, but I sincerely believe that Iran is patiently awaiting the revival of Pakistan to get the Ummah going at long last. Turkey is doing the same patient act. It wouldn't do anything to harm this country.
And best fighters, well yes. They threw themselves in their thousands on the mined fields separating them from Iraq so that their comrades could advance over their blown up corpses. After all, the banner of Shiism was raised on the deaths of the Ahle Bait. The Shia fear death as little as the Afghans do.
Bravo for the conclusion, BO, turned with brio, but impossible to answer. And I don't suppose you even expected one. I liked "pontifical hooey" best.Posted 2 years ago on 23 Sep 2010 23:27 #
Masses wanting to immigrate...thats about as much true as a piece of cow dung, would the decsion of the defense, clifton population of Karachi be reflective of the decison of Pakistan. Similarly the population of Northern Tehran do not reflect decison of all of Iran,and you know of the **** private **** clubs in Iran...how??
Please do tell me about the shia doctrine sire, tell me then how the universe functions, or What Allah nawzobialla thinks like. Who are you to make false assertions about the shia doctrine,and a patheticly feeble one as Paistianians are not momin. you know about the shia doctrine in so much depth and wisdom...how??
so now we are excusing Saudi Arabias support for the US and lack of support for Palistinains by saying Iran is trying to control the third holiest site to counter the great benovalant Saudi Arabia. Saudia Arabia is wahabi/salafi...they persecute even the berhailvi sunnis, so please dont genralise them as beimg sunni. not only is it okay for Saudia Arabia and others not to support Palistine (Egypt and Jordan supported a blockade of the west bank). but now Iran is being villified for supporting Palistinians...wow.
The only % you quoted to be true is Lebonan 40% shia, but thats in a population where 40% are christian. Azerbijan is 90% shia and so is bahrain.
Pakistan had a whole doctrine of strategic depth for Afghanistan and Iran is meddling? Why should Iran stand by and not help the slaghter of Hazra shia? Is Iran not a nehibour to Afghanistan, why should it not have an interest in stablising Afghanistan, when Pakistan can have a doctine of strategic depth and Saudi Arabia also interfers.
We cut off the Iranians they were always willing to support us, we let American agents kill and kidnap Iranians diplomat and then we didnt even try to rescue them, why then can Iran not try to rescue their people? we are at fault not them.
Iran fought against Iraq when whole of the west US and Saudi wealth and arms were backing Iraq. They did it alone, Iranains are brave souls and you will see that even if they had to go it alone if the US attacks you will see,
may Allah protect the ones who are just and stand fast in the way of kuffar, may all munafiqs of Islam be exposed by Allah,.Posted 2 years ago on 24 Sep 2010 4:58 #
for the impassionate saner reply there is always the wisdom of MG.Posted 2 years ago on 24 Sep 2010 5:01 #
There is a reason why every Jew considers Israel as his own state. Immigration to Israel is open for every Jew. Even the non- Jewish sons of the Jewish mothers are entitled for immigration to Israel.
Iran does not offer any such facilities to the Shias of the other countries.
Shias own only the countries in which they are living.Posted 2 years ago on 24 Sep 2010 6:35 #
nota, thanks for the Ahmadinejad excerpt. See how he spoke to a practically empty hall. The US representatives who upped an left looked absolutely ridiculous. But A's short summing up of prevalent attitudes towards 9/11 was masterly.
The second link did not work, but I don't doubt that for the moment it's "Goodbye to Peace". Changes in world history have always been such a tortuous, painful process.Posted 2 years ago on 24 Sep 2010 9:11 #
Uncovering the American-Iranian deceptionThis article is written by Brother Abid-MustafaOn Sunday 19th September, in an interview on ABC's "This Week" programme, Mr Ahmadinejad said, "If the US administration truly wishes to alter its policies in Afghanistan, and in Iraq, and to move in a direction that serves the interest of the people of those two countries, we are always open to cooperation, as we are now."Iran's offer of assistance to America over Afghanistan comes at an important juncture for the Obama administration. America's armed forces are stretched, NATO is extremely reluctant to contribute more troops and the Pakistani army is overwhelmed by the flood crisis. But why does Tehran want to extend cooperation, given America's recent efforts to impose fresh sanctions against Iran. Equally perplexing is Tehran's proposal to help America stabilize Iraq. One would have thought that instability in Iraq and America's inability to pacify the Iraqi resistance suited Tehran. But the converse appears to be the case.Also during the interview Ahmadinejad appeared very keen to discuss Iran's nuclear programme with the "P5 Plus One", a negotiating forum comprising the US, Britain, France, Russia, China and Germany. "I think we will have a plan to discuss things," he said. Again, the terms of P5 Plus One are very clear- Iran must renege on its nuclear ambitions and pry open its nuclear programmes to foreign observers-yet despite such harsh conditions the Iranian leadership remains steadfast in its quest to engage the P5.So why Iran does wants to squander its gains from America's predicament in Iraq and Afghanistan, and furthermore engage with the P5 to give up its nuclear programme? How can such overtures be explained.If one accepts the axiom that deception is an essential tool employed by nations to secure their interests then the present inconsistencies in Iran's behavior can easily be explained.Over the past 5 years, the bellicose nature of U.S.-Iran relations has followed a well trodden trajectory, and the tiff over Iran's nuclear programme and the ascendency of Ahmadinejad has played a pivotal role. That is to say fiery rhetoric employed by Washington and Tehran interwoven with covert collaboration between the two, has resulted in America consolidating its presence in the region. The pacification of Iraq and Western Afghanistan, new security arrangements with the Gulf countries, weapon sales for the beleaguered American military companies to Israel and Saudi Arabia, impetus behind the deployment of U.S. missile shield programme in Europe are some of the benefits accrued by U.S. policy makers through a vicious web of lies to hide America's relations with Iran.Now with American troops withdrawing from Iraq to boost the Democratic Party's flagging fortunes at home, and America facing stiff opposition in Afghanistan, Tehran-its most trusted surrogate in the region-is stepping up efforts to bolster American endeavours to subdue the upward resistance in both countries. This is the reason behind Ahmadinejad's gambit to extend full support to America.For America to fully utilize Iran's support in the region, the Obama administration has to placate Israel's concerns over Iran's nuclear programme and curb Israeli efforts to attack Iran. In the past America has snubbed Israeli advances to attack Iran. America played down Israel's show of air power over the Mediterranean a few months ago, and has refused to sell it the powerful GBU-29 bunker-busters bombs. Today, America is still trying to restrain Israel, and is working to find an amicable solution to the Iranian nuclear programme that is acceptable to all parties. Unlike the Israelis egged on by the Europeans, America does not want to weaken Iran by facilitating a military strike, as it damages American interests. Tehran's desire to restart negotiations is a way to help America extricate itself from Iran's nuclear quagmire. Ironically, it is Tehran's to Washington together with America's reliance on Iran that provides ample ammunition to uncover the decades old American-Iranian deception that haunts the region. Ahmadinejad's so called expressions of concern for the people of the region are wicked lies aimed at deceiving the ummah by consolidating America's hegemony over her and denying her the return of the Caliphate.Posted 2 years ago on 24 Sep 2010 9:33 #
Thanks, salam1. I saw this a day or two ago and wondered about posting it here. Thank God, I didn't. I'd have messed up this thread as well.
Interesting points were made in the article. All in all, though, I do not quite agree with the conclusion of "the decades old American-Iranian deception" or the preying on sectarian fears in Muslim minds.
Also, the great believer in the restoration of the Ummah that I am, I do not quite see ît as a return to the Caliphate. In fact, I think that a return to any form of Caliphate is next to impossible. But the return of the Ummah in a new and freer form with Pakistan, flanked by Iran, Afghanistan and Turkey leading the charge is an absolute given.Posted 2 years ago on 24 Sep 2010 9:46 #
"The second link did not work,"
Sorry about that...the links are valid...just this forum sometimes puts an extra double-quote in the end. Click on the link and the delete that extra quote. Here they are to save you the work:
http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-world/iran-leaders-september-11-speech-sparks-us-fury-20100924-15p75.htmlPosted 2 years ago on 24 Sep 2010 9:50 #
yes, i understand what you mean about the conclusion, but may be we can leave that a side and just focus on the evidences given on relationship between US/Iran to understand the geopolitical reality.Posted 2 years ago on 24 Sep 2010 9:51 #
Yup, nota, that did work. Thanks for doing the work for me. Well Alan Hart is not only spot on, he's witty. A minus five on a rating from one to ten was beautifully done. And not a line of what he wrote needs changing. Security for Israel, indeed! And what about some security for Palestine for a change? Well, it's at times like these, nota, that I thank the blessed Lord that I'm a staunch Muslim. Otherwise the gun to the temple solution would hold out a lot of attraction.Posted 2 years ago on 24 Sep 2010 10:19 #
Salam Sahib, good that we've got the conclusion out of the way.
As for geopolitical reality, the arguments used sound persuasive enough. But I'm loath to put my faith in them. I still believe in the genuineness of Iran. At best, it could be that Iran is playing a double game here, like Russia or China. So much the better thên. We don't want yet another Muslim country to be brought to its knees through war. Come to think of it, even Obama might be playing a double game.
But one thing I'm certain of. Iran will not tolerate a long-term west presence in our areas. A rightly-governed Pakistan neither. So whatever the geopolical reality may suggest today, it will not be of a lasting nature.Posted 2 years ago on 24 Sep 2010 10:26 #
Since all the deals made by the Iranis are based on their patriotic sentiments so they are usually not sufferers as the results of any bad deals.
We had a very good opportunity during Zia's regime to make advantageous deals with the USA, but the deals made were based on no patriotism, so Pakistan had to be on losing end instead of any gaining end.Posted 2 years ago on 24 Sep 2010 11:56 #
General, you're never left out alone on any hill (thread) to get pass and the reinforcements come in, in this case your lieutenant Not Possible has come forward to lay down his life or weapon, or both.
Not Possible, what a bunch of balogney, come down to substance. Check out CBC documentary on hidden **** clubs in Iran. Check out the public hanging of teen gays in Iran. Is that a style of punishment prescribed by the sharia Iran boasts about?
Iranian support of the Palestinian cause, what a buncha non-sense. Palestinians defy everything Iran is religious about, they deny walayat of Ali RA, they deny the right of passage of caliphhood to ahle-bait, they supported Muawiyya RA in Levant and they deny death of Fatima RA and miscarriage of Mohsin at the hand of Umer RA. The Palestinians are Momin doing Jihad as per which Shia doctrine? Iran is simply conceiving a leadership role by championing the Palestinian cause and winning the sympathies from the Muslim population. It must hurt them like hell to support people who defy their core idealogy but politics is about compromise. Why doesn't Iran support Kashmir cause in her neighborhood. Supply the Kashmiris weapons like the Palestinians. No, it needs the pipeline.
Bravery of the Iranians is your indoctrination, they couldn't do jack about the pathetic Saddam's army, Israel is going to be more lethal to Iran than US ever was to Iraq.Posted 2 years ago on 24 Sep 2010 14:48 #
CBC documentary, how about a documentary from Isreal that must be the truth!!!. Even so if it was true, it wont be hidden for long.
Iranians matched the Iraqi Army bank rolled by KSA and by the West for 8 yrs and no one was supporting Iran, look how Iraninan backed Hezbollah has performed.
Do you know what the shia doctrine is? It is the doctrine of the Ahle-e-Bait and this is how it goes.
When all companions of Imam Hussein were killed, before departing for the battlefield he came to say good bye to Hazrat Zainab and amongst the last things he instructed her was to say dont curse the soldiers of Yazeed, they are our grandfathers Ummah, they know not what they do.
The unity of muslim ummah depiste its diffrences is critical above all and that is the message of Ahle-Bait. When I speak ill of even the Saudi Salfi I defy the message of the Ahle Bait for they would always prefer reprochement with anyone who called themselves a muslim even if that someone was after your life.Posted 2 years ago on 24 Sep 2010 16:27 #
BO, if you like, we'll make a pact and act as your lieutenants too when next you go to war.
NP, has covered the basis points. No need for more there. Except perhaps this. Hazrat Ali himself would have been the first pained by the split between Shia and Sunni which came after Karbala. So not to attribute wrongdoing to the Shia. That would also be going against your own faith.
As for Israel crushing Iran, you seem to be relishing the thought. Come on, BO, you're not Jewish, you're a Muslim. Set aside your sectarian prejudices and root for your own side for a change. Allah expects it from you, I'm sure.Posted 2 years ago on 24 Sep 2010 16:52 #
Balogney after balogney. What illusive unity you fathom when your books are full of filth about the Sahabas RAs, when your Ayatullahs encourge cussing the beloved of the Sunnis. Any beghairat would sit down together on table talk with someone who's on 'baghal main churri mun per ram ram' agenda.
I only agree with the following part of your statement.
I defy the message of the Ahle Bait.
Indeed you do, indeed, not only you - all of the party. You guys are not on the track of Ahle bait, but you have espoused a panache of love of them that is only defincient in the action of ahle-bait.Posted 2 years ago on 24 Sep 2010 17:48 #
A supporter of US and Isreal has the nerve to lecture me on whats righteous,
you are the spawn of fitna mongers if not one, .....lover of KSA facist kings
the filth is in your head, that has been stuffed with as much lies as doctred books and stale tales.
okay the point about speaking ill about Sahaba is an old lie but cussing beloved of sunni thats somethings new, are you the originator of this lie?
Yes a lot of people form the shia may not be following on the exact footsteps of the Ahle-e-Bait but such is true of all muslims including sunnis,
in any case as per subject matter of this thread it is clear that it is your bigotary and bias that drives you into white lies and speaking aginst Iran, hence what you say dosent really matter because its a big fat lie based in prejudice.Posted 2 years ago on 25 Sep 2010 1:02 #
NP quote that Iran is also one of the most ancient civilizations of the world.
No one denies that but to be "proud" of the fire worshipping pagan civilization is antithesis to Islam. As a Muslim you cannot be proud of such materialistic civilization just like the Western civilization.And lest we forget it was Musa AS that crushed and humiliated such great civilization of Pharoah with help of Allah SBT. We have the Taliban brothers doing the same to "great" western materialistic civilization that is in its last throes. Islam came to crush once for all the linkages to such pagan civilizations be it the Pharoah of Egypt or Aryameher of Iran or Indus valley of Pakistan as Allama Iqbal said
Aa dabaya mehr r Iran ko ajal ki shaam ne
phir kisne zinda kiya tazkere yazdaan ko
What you see in most of the so called Muslim country is this kind of pagan revival of identifying with such past. This is result of decades of colonial rule. The colonialists WANTED Muslims to be proud of their pre-Islamic pagan past rather than Islamic past and hence this trend took hold in the Muslim world. Same thing in Turkey where the nationalistic idol was given utmost importance to Muslim past. Take up any english dictionary and find the meaning of word "Turk". It means Mohammadan as per old encyclopedia brittanica. The so called young Turks, agents of West, implanted the seed of nationalism and that took hold in Turkey and spread from Iran to Pakistan to Indonesia.Posted 2 years ago on 25 Sep 2010 1:20 #
AR come on, do you ever read my replies? do you ever match them with your old posts and queries? too see if your old point have been rebutted or not?
and then you bring such new points?
so the only thing particular to a civilisation is its worship???in that case Arabs were idol worshippers and converted muslims of the subcontinent as well as they were previously hindus
the only people who retain fire worship are Zorastian or the Parsis.Posted 2 years ago on 25 Sep 2010 2:14 #
We can be proud of only the history which is related to our faith whether it is of our Prophet SAW's Ummah or the Ummahs of other prophets of Allah. We can not be proud of Moenjo Daro or Harpa. We can be proud of Mohammad Bin Qasim and Sultan Ghaznavi.
The Iranian Emperor Raza Shah Pehawlvi celebrated the 2500th anniversary of the Iranian empire and paid a tributary visit to the mousetrap of Cyrus. Guests from the elite class of the world were invited and heavy sums of money were spent.Posted 2 years ago on 25 Sep 2010 6:03 #
Interestingly in Pakistan and India, there are two communities among the worshipers of fire, i.e. Parsi and Irani. Both of them are Zoroastrians. The Parsis are the ones who escaped from Iran at its time of conquest and settled down in Gujrat. The Iranis are the ones who later migrated to the subcontinent in the last few centuries. There are some cultural differences between the Parsi Zoroastrians and Irani Zoroastrians.Posted 2 years ago on 25 Sep 2010 6:10 #
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