PKPolitics Discuss » Current Issues

Iran supports American war

(140 posts)
  1. Thanks, salam1. I saw this a day or two ago and wondered about posting it here. Thank God, I didn't. I'd have messed up this thread as well.

    Interesting points were made in the article. All in all, though, I do not quite agree with the conclusion of "the decades old American-Iranian deception" or the preying on sectarian fears in Muslim minds.
    Also, the great believer in the restoration of the Ummah that I am, I do not quite see ît as a return to the Caliphate. In fact, I think that a return to any form of Caliphate is next to impossible. But the return of the Ummah in a new and freer form with Pakistan, flanked by Iran, Afghanistan and Turkey  leading the charge is an absolute given.

    Posted 5 years ago on 24 Sep 2010 8:46 #
  2. @MG
    "The second link did not work,"

    Sorry about that...the links are valid...just this forum sometimes puts an extra double-quote in the end. Click on the link and the delete that extra quote. Here they are to save you the work:

    Posted 5 years ago on 24 Sep 2010 8:50 #
  3. salam1

    yes, i understand what you mean about the conclusion, but may be we can leave that a side and just focus on the evidences given on relationship between US/Iran to understand the geopolitical reality.

    Posted 5 years ago on 24 Sep 2010 8:51 #
  4. Yup, nota, that did work. Thanks for doing the work for me. Well Alan Hart is not only spot on, he's witty. A minus five on a rating from one to ten was beautifully done. And not a line of what he wrote needs changing. Security for Israel, indeed! And what about some security for Palestine for a change? Well, it's at times like these, nota, that I thank the blessed Lord that I'm a staunch Muslim. Otherwise the gun to the temple solution would hold out a lot of attraction.

    Posted 5 years ago on 24 Sep 2010 9:19 #
  5. Salam Sahib, good that we've got the conclusion out of the way.

    As for geopolitical reality, the arguments used sound persuasive enough. But I'm loath to put my faith in them. I still believe in the genuineness of Iran. At best, it could be that Iran is playing a double game here, like Russia or China. So much the better thên. We don't want yet another Muslim country to be brought to its knees through war. Come to think of it, even Obama might be playing a double game.

    But one thing I'm certain of. Iran will not tolerate a long-term west presence in our areas. A rightly-governed Pakistan neither. So whatever the geopolical reality may suggest today, it will not be of a lasting nature.  

    Posted 5 years ago on 24 Sep 2010 9:26 #
  6. Hussain Farooqui

    Since all the deals made by the Iranis are based on their patriotic sentiments so they are usually not sufferers as the results of any bad deals.

    We had a very good opportunity during Zia's regime to make advantageous deals with the USA, but the deals made were based on no patriotism, so Pakistan had to be on losing end instead of any gaining end.

    Posted 5 years ago on 24 Sep 2010 10:56 #
  7. barackosama

    Mirza Ghalib,

    General, you're never left out alone on any hill (thread) to get pass and the reinforcements come in, in this case your lieutenant Not Possible has come forward to lay down his life or weapon, or both.

    Not Possible, what a bunch of balogney, come down to substance. Check out CBC documentary on hidden **** clubs in Iran. Check out the public hanging of teen gays in Iran. Is that a style of punishment prescribed by the sharia Iran boasts about?

    Iranian support of the Palestinian cause, what a buncha non-sense. Palestinians defy everything Iran is religious about, they deny walayat of Ali RA, they deny the right of passage of caliphhood to ahle-bait, they supported Muawiyya RA in Levant and they deny death of Fatima RA and miscarriage of Mohsin at the hand of Umer RA. The Palestinians are Momin doing Jihad as per which Shia doctrine? Iran is simply conceiving a leadership role  by championing the Palestinian cause and winning the sympathies from the Muslim population. It must hurt them like hell to support people who defy their core idealogy but politics is about compromise. Why doesn't Iran support Kashmir cause in her neighborhood. Supply the Kashmiris weapons like the Palestinians. No, it needs the pipeline. 

    Bravery of the Iranians is your indoctrination, they couldn't do jack about the pathetic Saddam's army, Israel is going to be more lethal to Iran than US ever was to Iraq.

    Posted 5 years ago on 24 Sep 2010 13:48 #
  8. Not Possible

    CBC documentary, how about a documentary from Isreal that must be the truth!!!. Even so if it was true, it wont be hidden for long.

    Iranians matched the Iraqi Army bank rolled by KSA and by the West for 8 yrs and no one was supporting Iran, look how Iraninan backed Hezbollah has performed.

    Do you know what the shia doctrine is? It is the doctrine of the Ahle-e-Bait and this is how it goes.

    When all companions of Imam Hussein were killed, before departing for the battlefield  he came to say good bye to Hazrat Zainab and amongst the last things he instructed her was to say dont curse the soldiers of Yazeed, they are our grandfathers Ummah, they know not what they do.

    The unity of muslim ummah depiste its diffrences is critical above all and that is the message of Ahle-Bait. When I speak ill of even the Saudi Salfi I defy the message of the Ahle Bait for they would always prefer reprochement with anyone who called themselves a muslim even if that someone was after your life.

    Posted 5 years ago on 24 Sep 2010 15:27 #
  9. BO, if you like, we'll make a pact and act as your lieutenants too when next you go to war.

    NP, has covered the basis points. No need for more there. Except perhaps this. Hazrat Ali himself would have been the first pained by the split between Shia and Sunni which came after Karbala. So not to attribute wrongdoing to the Shia. That would also be going against your own faith.  

    As for Israel crushing Iran, you seem to be relishing the thought. Come on, BO, you're not Jewish, you're a Muslim. Set aside your sectarian prejudices and root for your own side for a change. Allah expects it from you, I'm sure.

    Posted 5 years ago on 24 Sep 2010 15:52 #
  10. barackosama

    Not Possible 

    Balogney after balogney. What illusive unity you fathom when your books are full of filth about the Sahabas RAs, when your Ayatullahs encourge cussing the beloved of the Sunnis. Any beghairat would sit down together on table talk with someone who's on 'baghal main churri mun per ram ram' agenda.

    I only agree with the following part of your statement.

    I defy the message of the Ahle Bait
    Indeed you do, indeed, not only you - all of the party. You guys are not on the track of Ahle bait, but you have espoused a panache of love of them that is only defincient in the action of ahle-bait.

    Posted 5 years ago on 24 Sep 2010 16:48 #
  11. Not Possible

    A supporter of US and Isreal has the nerve to lecture me on whats righteous,

    you are the spawn of fitna mongers if not one, .....lover of KSA facist kings

    the filth is in your head, that has been stuffed with as much lies as doctred books and stale tales.

    okay the point about speaking ill about Sahaba is an old lie but cussing beloved of sunni thats somethings new, are you the originator of this lie?

    Yes a lot of people form the shia may not be following on the exact footsteps of the Ahle-e-Bait but such is true of all muslims including sunnis,

    in any case as per subject matter of this thread it is clear that it is your bigotary and bias that drives you into white lies and speaking aginst Iran, hence what you say dosent really matter because its  a big fat lie based in prejudice.

    Posted 5 years ago on 25 Sep 2010 0:02 #
  12. Abdul Rahman

     NP quote that Iran is  also one of the most ancient civilizations of the world.

    No one denies that but to be "proud" of the fire worshipping pagan civilization is antithesis to Islam. As a Muslim you cannot be proud of such materialistic civilization just like the Western civilization.And lest we forget it was Musa AS that crushed and humiliated  such great civilization of Pharoah with help of Allah SBT. We have the Taliban brothers doing the same to "great" western materialistic civilization that is  in its last throes.  Islam came to crush once for all the linkages to such pagan civilizations be it the Pharoah of Egypt or Aryameher of Iran or Indus valley of Pakistan as Allama Iqbal said
    Aa dabaya mehr r Iran ko ajal ki shaam ne
    phir kisne zinda kiya tazkere yazdaan ko

    What you see in most of the so called Muslim country is this kind of pagan revival of identifying with such past. This is result of decades of colonial rule. The colonialists WANTED Muslims to be proud of their pre-Islamic pagan past rather than Islamic past and hence this trend took hold in the Muslim world. Same thing in Turkey where the nationalistic idol was given utmost importance to Muslim past. Take up any english dictionary and find the meaning of word "Turk". It means Mohammadan as per old  encyclopedia brittanica. The so called young Turks, agents of West, implanted the seed of nationalism and that took hold in Turkey and spread from Iran to Pakistan to Indonesia.

    Posted 5 years ago on 25 Sep 2010 0:20 #
  13. Not Possible

    AR come on, do you ever read my replies? do you ever match them with your old posts and queries? too see if your old point have been rebutted or not?
    and then you bring such new points?
    so the only thing particular to a civilisation is its worship???in that case Arabs were idol worshippers and converted muslims of the subcontinent as well as they were previously hindus

    the only people who retain fire worship are Zorastian or the Parsis.

    Posted 5 years ago on 25 Sep 2010 1:14 #
  14. Hussain Farooqui

    Abdul Rehman

    We can be proud of only the history which is related to our faith whether it is of our Prophet SAW's Ummah or the Ummahs of other prophets of Allah. We can not be proud of Moenjo Daro or Harpa. We can be proud of Mohammad Bin Qasim and Sultan Ghaznavi. 

    The Iranian Emperor Raza Shah Pehawlvi celebrated the 2500th anniversary of the Iranian empire and paid a tributary visit to the mousetrap of Cyrus.  Guests from the elite class of the world were invited and heavy sums of money were spent.

    Posted 5 years ago on 25 Sep 2010 5:03 #
  15. Hussain Farooqui

    Not Possible

    Interestingly in Pakistan and India, there are two communities among the worshipers of fire, i.e. Parsi and Irani. Both of them are Zoroastrians.  The Parsis are the ones who escaped from Iran at its time of conquest and settled down in Gujrat. The Iranis are the ones who later migrated to the subcontinent in the last few centuries. There are some cultural differences between the Parsi Zoroastrians and Irani Zoroastrians.

    Posted 5 years ago on 25 Sep 2010 5:10 #
  16. Not Possible

    Parsis are the ones who immigrated from Iran

    and the history that I am proud off is Hazrat lal shahbaz qalander, Hazrat Datta Gunk Baksh, not mauraders like Muhammed bin Qasim and Mahmood Ghaznavi, snap out of the violent version of Islam spread by barbarians.

    I have every right to be proud of the history of my land of any civilisation that existed on this land, for it is my land now. I am a muslim, a staunch muslim and a proud muslim and one whos faith is strong , I am not weak enought to think that just because I am proud that the history of my land has moanje daro that it makes me any less of a muslim.

    Posted 5 years ago on 25 Sep 2010 5:28 #
  17. Hussain Farooqui

    Not Possible

    Your opinion about Muhammad Bin Qasim and Mehmood Ghaznavi is based on some distorted history. They are the heroes of our history.

    Allah destroyed Harpa and Moenjodaro and then showed the remains for lessons. No town is destroyed unless it is cursed by Allah. Please be proud of only the things which were blessed by Allah. 

    Posted 5 years ago on 25 Sep 2010 5:33 #
  18. Not Possible

    No bro HF it is you who need to see history of why Muhammed bin Qasim came all the way here.Allah would have never blessed his cause,

    Allah has blessed diversity in nature, pluraity of cultures, mix of races, the only singularity in Allahs Universe is Allah himself.

    cherish the variety Allah has creates and only condemn abuse and oppression.

    Posted 5 years ago on 25 Sep 2010 6:16 #
  19. Hussain Farooqui

    Not Possible

    Indeed, the Persian history after the dawn of Islam is much more brightly  shinning than that of pre-Islamic era.  The writers and poets of the Persian language contributed great treasures of knowledge and wisdom not only to the Muslims but the entire world. The works of intellectuals like Sadi, Jami, Roomi,,etc. are still the subjects of research in nos. of European and American universities.

    Posted 5 years ago on 25 Sep 2010 6:27 #
  20. NP, you wrote something there I deeply hold as a fundamental truth myself:

    "Allah has blessed diversity in nature, pluraity of cultures, mix of races, the only singularity in Allahs Universe is Allah himself.

    cherish the variety Allah has creates and only condemn abuse and oppression."

    A truly philosophical approach!

    And a word on HF, as well, one of the most modest and understated of our bloggers here. If it's intellectual honesty we're looking for, turn to HF, I say.

    Posted 5 years ago on 25 Sep 2010 8:47 #

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