PKPolitics Discuss » Current Issues

Is America really our Enemy No 1?

(40 posts)
  1. Six months ago, an extraordinary news report was published by Dawn, which recounted the contents of a military briefing given to journalists on November 30, 2010. A top Pakistani military official stated that Pakistan “has transited from the ‘most sanctioned ally’ to the ‘most bullied ally’” of the US. Essentially an off-the-record briefing, the contents were leaked to the public wherein the army leadership declared that the US had a “transactional” relationship with Pakistan. That the US was “interested in perpetuating a state of ‘controlled chaos’ in Pakistan”; and the “real aim of US strategy is to denuclearize Pakistan.”

    Paranoia about the US runs deep into the Pakistani psyche now. Other than the reticent generals, it is the vocal media men who have now made anti-Americanism an article of faith of Pakistani patriotism.

    The recently published Wiki Leaks cable of May 2008 reveals that many of Pakistan’s National Defense University (NDU) students and instructors “have an anti-American bias”. In the cable, former US ambassador Anne Patterson reported on US Army Colonel Michael Schleicher study period at the NDU, where he attended the Senior Course along with 110 Pakistani officers. Schleicher estimated that a third of the class was religiously devout, a third moderate and less than a third overtly secular. He also said that pedagogy at the NDU represented misperceptions about US policy and culture. A guest speaker (a general) held that “the US National Security Agency actively trains correspondents for media organizations”.

    At the time, this cable was released in Pakistan, Pakistan’s ambassador to the US, Husain Haqqani, also lectured at the NDU, where he tried to argue that it is “perfectly possible for two nations to have an alliance but not have a total convergence of interests. For example, just as Pakistan’s views about India are not shared by the US, America’s views about Iran are not shared by Pakistan.”
    After a long story on reasoned view of foreign policy, Haqqani asks, “What is the principal national security threat to Pakistan?” The audience is invited to vote by raising hands for categories, ‘from within’, ‘from India’ and ‘from the US’. Not surprisingly, a majority of hands were raised for the US.

    Perhaps the best summation of the syndrome comes in Haqqani’s own words: “If [the biggest threat to Pakistan’s security] really comes from the US, then we’ve already lost, ladies and gentlemen, because you can’t beat the US in a military confrontation and that is the reality which we have to accept, whatever our emotions. Because, let us be honest, we do not have the means to take on the one military power in the world that spends more on defense technology than the next 20 nations in the world. Therefore, that is where I think we sometimes end up having what I call ‘emotional discussion’. I see it on Pakistani television all the time.”

    A calm Haqqani tries to reason with martial minds: “How can we be integrated into the global economy if we are not part of the international economic system which, right now, whether we like it or not, is led by a single country. A reality based foreign policy for Pakistan will have to integrate [Pakistan] into the global economy. [The policy] will have to take into account Pakistan’s concerns emanating from the terrorist threat within the country.”
    Perhaps this is where the greatest of our challenges resides. The enemy is somewhere within, deep into the Pakistani psyche — an inheritor of the ‘invasion-threat.’

    In a century that defines power in terms of economic and technological advantages, our national ideology leads us to somewhat simplistic thinking. We still only celebrate Turko-Afghan Muslim invaders of the subcontinent and resent the arrival of the European colonialist in the garb of traders. However, the world has moved beyond Ghauri and Lord Clive. The religion-based ideology designed to forge national unity might end up being our undoing, coupled with an unwillingness to embrace the realities of the contemporary world. In any case, how can we explain how an institution continues to be the largest recipient of US assistance and its ally for decades; and apparently resents it too?

    http://tribune.com.pk/story/181759/is-america-really-our-enemy-no-1/

    Posted 10 months ago on 02 Jul 2011 6:33 #
  2. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    Our relations with the USA have to be viewed with facts and figures rather than emotions. We have no fraternal relations with the USA. When our interests match with the Americans, then 'give & take' relationship is established.

    In our history of 63 years, we got golden opportunities to negotiate the best of terms with the USA in our national interests, but our rulers and politicians took the opportunities in the disadvantage of the country rather than advantage. Our rulers and politicians took the advantages in their self-interests.

    Posted 10 months ago on 02 Jul 2011 7:02 #
  3. 2011pakistan
    Member

    America is not our friend......... this is very negative approach.

    Our actual enemy is present inside Pakistan not external one.

    We should not pass on the rezult of our wrong and foolish decission makings to others.

    We are responsible for our own decissions.

    Posted 10 months ago on 02 Jul 2011 7:57 #
  4. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    2011pakistan

    Yes Gentleman, America is neither our enemy nor friend. Friendship or animosity in the international politics is based on matching or clashing of interests.

    When America's interests were matching with us, our rulers did not take the advantage in the favour of the country but they exploited the situation in their self-interests. Our generals, politicians and political Mullahs made millions and billions during the Afghan war.

    When the interests were matching with the so called Jihad leaders of Afghanistan, the American President Ronald Regan introduced the so called Mujahid Leaders to the media as the heroes of the century. When the American interests clashed with the same, then they were termed as terrorists.

    Posted 10 months ago on 02 Jul 2011 10:30 #
  5. quaidkamazaar
    Member

    I think USA is not enemy of Pakistan.... so many Pakistanis work in the USA to keep their families surviving in Pakistan. a lot of cash flows from USA to Pakistan. so it would be very senseless to declare USA enemy as so many of our people are there...

    someones cousin, someones uncle... someones someone is there, and for their sake we cannot make USA our enemy #1 as they will have to come back having no more respect.

    Posted 10 months ago on 04 Jul 2011 3:53 #
  6. spruce
    Member

    America no more enemy of pakistan but those elements who have controlled pantagon,washington they are jew lobby who forced america to have strong relation with india as india is close ally with israil.

    india and israil are using guns on the shoulder of america.

    majority of americans support pakistan and manority related with jew lobby are agaisnt pakistan due to muslim atomic power country.

    Posted 10 months ago on 04 Jul 2011 4:44 #
  7. 2011pakistan
    Member

    America is our enemy,
    West is our enemy,
    Israel is our enemy,
    Iran is our enemy being shia regime,
    India is our enemy,
    Afghanistan is our enemy.
    All the other countries are our enemy.

    It means some thing is wrong with us.

    Posted 10 months ago on 04 Jul 2011 6:26 #
  8. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    2011pakistan

    Definitely, there are a lot of things wrong with our political, military, intellectual and religious leaderships.

    Posted 10 months ago on 04 Jul 2011 6:29 #
  9. America and some other countries definately have their interest and motives in Pakistan but who is making everything possible for them to finally occupy and destabilize this land? yes yes our very own puppet leaders and dictators!!!

    Posted 10 months ago on 04 Jul 2011 16:49 #
  10. Anwer Kamal
    Member

    What they are promoting.
    http://www.paktribune.com/news/index.shtml?241119

    Posted 10 months ago on 04 Jul 2011 23:25 #
  11. oneUp
    Member

    ^ WTH! So after democracy their latest export is "sodomy" ??? Why are they hell bent on embarrassing us?

    Posted 10 months ago on 05 Jul 2011 1:56 #
  12. he he he
    we are our own enemy No1.

    Posted 10 months ago on 05 Jul 2011 7:21 #
  13. saladin89
    Member

    US is enemy no2

    The hukumat is enemy no 1

    ppp, muslim non and MQM.

    Posted 10 months ago on 05 Jul 2011 7:47 #
  14. enemy No1 .hum khud
    enemy No2. all political parties PMLN, PPP,MQM ,JI etc.
    enemy No3. Amerika

    amerika hum se badmashi kar hi nahi sakta agar humary politician Iran ki tarha strong hoon.

    hum sub se baray qasoor waar jo har waqat amrica kay tattooyon ko vote de daltay hain.

    Posted 10 months ago on 05 Jul 2011 7:57 #
  15. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    Our enemy no. 1 are our corrupt army generals, politicians, journalists, judges and feudal lords. If we get rid of them, our nation will be in a position to tackle the strongest aggressor.

    Posted 10 months ago on 05 Jul 2011 9:30 #
  16. spruce
    Member

    @hussain farooqi

    agreed with HF view point that(((((Our enemy no. 1 are our corrupt army generals, politicians, journalists, judges and feudal lords.)))

    what happend with ZAB when he took stance against USA then what establishment done with him..

    Posted 10 months ago on 05 Jul 2011 9:58 #
  17. thedude
    Member

    Our enemy number 1 is us not US (don't confuse lowercase with uppercase)

    Posted 10 months ago on 05 Jul 2011 10:37 #
  18. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    In case of ZAB, corrupt politicians were funded to carry out agitation, then army generals were employed to overthrow his govt. and then the judiciary was employed to sentence him to death. The feudal lords bended on knees to Zia's martial-law govt.

    Posted 10 months ago on 05 Jul 2011 10:37 #
  19. @dude bhai,
    yahi tou mein bhi keh raha hoon itni dair se ,koi sunta hi nahi.

    he he he
    Zardari luteray ko vote denay wala kon? awam
    Nawaz chor ko vote denay wala kon? awam
    Altaf Ghunday ko vote denay wala kon? awam

    yeh sub chor hain, isi liye kamzoor hain.
    issi liye army waaly in pe ghalib aa jatay hain.

    India mein kaisay nahi aatay ghalib?

    Posted 10 months ago on 05 Jul 2011 10:57 #
  20. saladin89
    Member

    Our army generals not perfect, far from that however the hukumat PPP, MUslim Noon and MQM are worse.

    The main problem we have had in our country is that we have had liars as our leaders.

    Since quaid e azam, we have had a bunch of liars and corrupt leader's.

    Hopefully inshallah it will change with IK in power.

    Posted 10 months ago on 06 Jul 2011 3:54 #
  21. our enemy No1 are the stooges of America.
    who are playing the role of Mir Jaffer and Mir Sadiq.

    Posted 10 months ago on 06 Jul 2011 5:47 #
  22. Anwer Kamal
    Member

    نہ نو من تیل ہو گا نہ رادھا ناچے گی

    Posted 10 months ago on 06 Jul 2011 6:14 #
  23. he he he
    Amerika ka no tou buhat baad mein aata hay.
    amerka ne barbad kiya
    doston ki madad se.

    Posted 10 months ago on 06 Jul 2011 6:42 #
  24. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    Our educational system does not incorporate our religious and cultural in the minds of the public. Hence, a qualified person does know his values to protect or develop them.

    We are the enemies of ourselves.

    Posted 10 months ago on 06 Jul 2011 11:28 #
  25. spruce
    Member

    @choosy

    with reference to ur comments that"""""yeh sub chor hain, isi liye kamzoor hain.
    issi liye army waaly in pe ghalib aa jatay hain.
    India mein kaisay nahi aatay ghalib? )))))))

    curuption in india
    ==================
    Corruption in India is a consequence of the nexus between Bureaucracy, politics and criminals. India is now no longer considered a soft state. It has now become a consideration state where everything can be had for a consideration. Today, the number of ministers with an honest image can be counted on fingers. At one time, bribe was paid for getting wrong things done but now bribe is paid for getting right things done at right time.

    Indian administration is tainted with scandals. India is among 55 of the 106 countries where corruption is rampant, according to the Corruption Perception Index 2004 Report released by Transparency International India. Corruption in India leads to promotion not prison. It is very difficult to catch ‘big sharks’. Corruption in India has wings not wheels. As nation grows, the corrupt also grow to invent new methods of cheating the government and public.

    http://upscportal.com/civilservices/essay/An-Essay-Corruption-in-India

    Posted 10 months ago on 06 Jul 2011 13:49 #
  26. tou jee
    mein ne kab kaha kay Indian politician corrupt nahi?

    jo mein na kaha wohh tha yeh kay Indian Politicians kion nahi aatay army walon kay dhuassay mein ?

    Posted 10 months ago on 06 Jul 2011 14:08 #
  27. I am sorry that I have skipped the whole thread and my argument is based on the topic of this thread. So Apologies if some one has mentioned this before too.

    Our Number one enemy?

    -Pakistani Politicians
    -Pakistani Army Generals
    -Pakistani Mulla's (the one who use Islam for their own personal reasons)
    -Lack of Morality among Pakistani's

    Reasons:

    - lack of Education
    - Being away from Quran and Sunnah
    - Being divided by the corrupt elements (Politicians, Army, Establishment, Media, Religious parties/Mulla)

    Why look for enemies outside? We have enemies inside. And why would we think that USA, UK, Europe, Israel, India will be our friends and will never hurt us? In real life, would you expect this from your enemy? They are called enemies cuz they want to harm you, hurt you.

    We need to find the enemy inside our ranks. The one outside will never dare if we were honest to ourselves, loyal to our Religion and Country.

    Posted 10 months ago on 06 Jul 2011 14:32 #
  28. jaypk
    Member

    aik din jaypk k saath..!

    9 bajay convent school mein parhaee ke...dopehar ko McDonalds say khaana khaaaya...gher jaatay huay gaari mein the Doors ki CD suni.....shaaam ko apnay burger doston k saath cineplex mein American pie daikhee.......

    phir raat ko pkpolitics par aa kr amreeka ko gaaliaaan deeen..

    kia yeeehh khullaaaa tuzzaaaaad naeee...!

    Posted 10 months ago on 06 Jul 2011 17:37 #
  29. We began well enough with the leading thread and then back-pedalled fast enough to one of the favourite themes on this blog: how unbearable Pakistan actually is and we are our own worst enemies. Choosy, KHAN_Sahib and some others have given us a comprehensive enough list of who those enemies are. Nothing to be added there.

    But then a question occurs. If there are so many enemies laying Pakistan to waste, who on earth can we count among our friends. The answer is quick to suggest itself: the common man, the people of Pakistan, the awam.the vast, as a rule, silent majority. They it is who will save Pakistan, much to the chagrin of her many enemies.

    Tomorrow, the common man, wearied beyond measure of asking for a fair deal, will take things into his own hands and lead this country. The effete elite of Pakistan, which knows nothing but contempt for the poor, the disenfranchised, the downtrodden, the illiterate, will pay a high price and, along with them, the US will have been forced to leave our shores.

    Posted 10 months ago on 07 Jul 2011 9:26 #
  30. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    MG Saheb

    Majority of our common people (80%)are illiterate. They are as innocent in the hands of feudal class as the herds of sheep. Out of the 20% literate class, hardly 5% are educated. The educated class passes through the colonial style educational system which was meant for adjusting local people in govt. jobs of slavery. That is how the educated class also mostly carries mental slavery. That class is actually no.1 enemy of Pakistan.

    Our educational system needs to be revamped to produce good citizens.

    Posted 10 months ago on 07 Jul 2011 9:38 #
  31. jaypak,
    he he he

    Posted 10 months ago on 07 Jul 2011 9:42 #
  32. True enough, HF, true enough what you say. I'm making a prediction above. And when predictions come, it's not me speaking, it's my fingers. Time alone will tell how founded they were.

    Our educational system will be mended soon enough as soon as we have eased the enemies of Pakistan out of this country and linked hands with her friends.

    And off topic, if I may and just for you HF. You were our Turkey specialist at one time. And now just what is Erdogan up to exactly?

    Posted 10 months ago on 07 Jul 2011 10:33 #
  33. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    MG Saheb

    Turks are gradually and intelligently reviving their value to re-emerge with the glories similar to their Ottoman past. My father visited Turkey in 1990 and concluded that the sensitive Muslims of Turkey are doing their foundational Islamic works very well. They are still writing and publishing their books in the Arabic script.

    Posted 10 months ago on 07 Jul 2011 10:44 #
  34. Thanks HF, God be with you and your predictions. But Erdogan has turned out to be a disaster and I say this with profound depression. Turkey as a whole they just about might, but the Ummah will never ever forgive him for what he has been doing for the past few weeks.

    Posted 10 months ago on 07 Jul 2011 11:26 #
  35. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    MG

    The Turkish governments are undoubtedly the followers of the footsteps of the West. However, the members of Hizbur Rafah are building their foundations for the forthcoming opportune time.

    No such sings are evident in Pakistan. Our Army Generals, Political Mullahs, Judges and Civil Servants are extremely corrupt and still mostly follow the colonial system of the British era.

    Posted 10 months ago on 07 Jul 2011 11:55 #
  36. TruthBites
    Members

    More than America our own politicians and those people who vote these corrupt PPP , MQM, Kiyani who are licking feet of america for money. They are not afraid from ALLAH but america, they think America gives life and death and rizq to them noizbillah.
    Corrupt people can not be brave. they just find the ways to get haram money from all ways.

    Cowards cant lead. Our innocent pakistanies and army soldiers are dying every day but no body cares. They love money only

    Posted 10 months ago on 07 Jul 2011 13:13 #
  37. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    TruthBites

    Our political Mullahs are not behind politicians and army generals in the dirty bribery race. They all are bribers. America can be blameworthy for employing them for its public interests. What the Americans are doing in the global politics is in the best interest of their country. Why can't our Mullahs, politicians and army generals do something in the interest of their nation?

    Posted 10 months ago on 07 Jul 2011 13:54 #
  38. TruthBites
    Members

    Even foreigners belongs to other countries have more protection and respect in our country but no respect and protection of the nationals of this country.
    Slaves are ruling us so how we could be a proud nation. Haram khanay walay chor leaders are ruling pakistan. our system is corrupt ,, all the system is same as it was left by british to control the general public. police is not independent how they could be as they depend on politicians for appointments and promotions. Whole system is corrupt as you can see PPP won elections in Kashmir.. how ? No Hope ,, Corrupt System is killing us

    Posted 10 months ago on 07 Jul 2011 14:12 #
  39. TruthBites
    Members

    Even these leaders doesnot need public votes to win. they can buy the whole system to win it.. Democracy ,,, public opinion no hope,, change the system

    Posted 10 months ago on 07 Jul 2011 14:15 #
  40. Thanks, HF, thanks. You gave me back some hope. We could ill afford to lose the entire Turkish nation.

    As to why Pakistan behaves the way it does, I personally believe it's because we haven't really turned into a nation as yet. We are still too much influenced by the idea of each man for himself in place of the all for one and one for all attitudes of older countries.

    Posted 10 months ago on 07 Jul 2011 14:54 #

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