Is it really India? « PKPolitics Discuss

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Is it really India?

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zia m
Member

“India should derive no satisfaction from Pakistan’s predicament. Although religious extremists see ordinary Muslims as munafiqs (hypocrites) — and therefore free to be blown up in bazaars and mosques — they hate Hindus even more. In their calculus, hurting India would buy even more tickets for heaven than hurting Pakistan. They dream of ripping apart both societies, or starting a war — preferably nuclear — between Pakistan and India.”
He goes on to say…..

It is time for India to fuzz the Line of Control, make it highly permeable and demilitarise it up to some mutually negotiated depth on both sides. Without peace in Kashmir the forces of cross-border jihad, and its hate-filled holy warriors, will continue to receive unnecessary succour.

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/editorial/is-it-really-india-819

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Nov 2009 19:45 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

In the Quran, Muslims are instructed to reconcile with fellow Muslims as well as instill FEAR of Muslims in the hearts of non-believers.

THAT is what I want to see happening in Pakistan. I want it to happen ALL around the globe.

ALL the rest is just useless talk.

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Nov 2009 19:54 #
Oriel
Member

Haris bhai:

In this era I think non-muslims are well versed in fearing Muslims. I see no good for Muslims in being perceived in this way.

Muslims are first instructed to READ. When we read the verses we will see every Ayah giving a warning against the non-Muslim either preceded or followed by Ayahs instructing us in self-sufficiency, decency, tolerance, peaceful and trust-worthy relations with all that have rights over us.

When we as a religious group are able to decipher how to stand on our own two feet, enable our children to become free-thinkers, developers of ideas for our betterment we will no more be the victims of India, Israel, US or any foreign country.

I dearly wish to see Pakistan with a predominantly educated population, able to make its own decisions, able to decide its own fate, able to compete with the most technologically advanced non-muslim country, able to be a torch-bearer within the international stage, a giver of its commodities and assets; in short I wish to see an able Pakistan rather than the disabled Pakistan of today.

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Nov 2009 20:08 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

MMA has a fully! researched, well organized plan for achieving;

self-sufficiency, decency, tolerance, peaceful and trust-worthy relations.

It is based on the Quran-o-Hadees's given ideas.

They have just never had power in the federation/Pakistan.

I will give one example to demonstrate this;

- When MMA got into power in NWFP, the provincial pocket was literally empty. Yet, they added a lot to the province in their term

We need MORE focused talk shows in Pakistan, focused towards the objectives, how they are going to be achieved, what we will do to gain what results.

We need a blunt!, open discussion on matters.

Right now, people running govt. of Pakistan will not allow this, because their personal interests get hurt very badly as a result.

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Nov 2009 20:12 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

We have a big communication gap, by which I mean, the religious people are saying things that no one else is able to understand or perceive, and everyone else is saying that which is not being received by religious people.

I have noticed this communication gap with many members of the community here.

This hindrance in communication is one of the primary reason because of which different facets of our society are not able to communicate their ideas.

For example, the plan of action, that the religious people have is not something that is impractical. This plan is not something that will push us into the stone age. This is a plan that will in-fact push into the next era of prosperity.

For example, the religious community in our nation has already embraced advances in education, science and technology, research and development.

Yet the not-so-religious community in our nation has not yet embraced the other, as yet.

Yet, religious people aren't able to communicate this to everyone else.

I hope our current, as well as comming generations will function as a bridge between the two, making the flow of messages easier! and hopefully swifter! as well. Speed! is the need of the hour. Our situation is critical.

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Nov 2009 20:36 #
netengr
blocked

Why the most practicing Muslims not involve in politics like Junaid Jamshed ,Taqi Usmani ,Ashraf ali thanwi ,Moulana Ilyas .

why semi political mullas are involved in politics and always talk about hatred and they do not involve "dawah " and do not consider as "practicing Muslim " in the society .

Kisi nay sahi kaha tha

neem hakeem Khatra-e-jaan
neem Mulla Khatra-e-emaan

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Nov 2009 20:50 #
msohail83
Member

Yahoodboy is at it again :-)

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Nov 2009 20:55 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

If I was ruler in Pakistan, I would NEVER allow people like Pervaiz Hoodbhoy and netengr to be there to cause confusion, to cause division.

I would behead them as Hazrat Umar (RA, RAA) did with someone, who came to confirm the answer to a question he had already asked from Muhammad (SAW)

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Nov 2009 21:28 #
dilpak
nu-inzi-shehzada

AbuJahil/hariskhan
Thank you for providing entertainment with your idiotic comments. Threatening forum members with murder threats is something only a complete idiot will do. Be proud since you have passed the test with flying colors. I suggest you should be given the glorious title of ABU JAHIL.

WARNING - Name Calling

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Nov 2009 21:44 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

Did you understand my words before you jumped to conclusions ? NO!. I think YOU are the Jahils' here.

I was talking about Hazrat Umar (RA, RAA) who beheaded someone. It is a Hadees. If you are not aware of the context or the Hadees, then why blame others for it ? Hazrat Umar (RA, RAA) did it for a DAMN! good reason.

I don't care for ****** like you who jump to conclusions before confirming what has been said.

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Nov 2009 22:05 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

The 90+ % of populace in Pakistan deems Pakistan's nuclear arsenal as a means of safety, security, not only for Pakistan, not only for the Muslim UMMAH, but for smaller nations as well.

Pakistan's nuclear arsenal has saved Pakistan and other states from being attacked by India on a number of occasions.

Yet we have Mr. Hoodbhoy here, talking against Pakistan EVEN HAVING a nuclear arsenal. He's good with the idea that the west have it. Yet, somehow he is against the idea, that Pakistan have it. Does THIS register on your not-being-used ALLAH gifted BRAIN ?!?!?!!! or are you people brain dead ?

Why does he intentionally go against the general consensus people have about something so! important, talking 100% opposite to common sense ?

- Do you think it is Afghani or Irani people who instigated matters in East Pakistan ?

- Do you think it is Afghani or Irani who are causing trouble in FATA, in NWFP, in Baluchistan ?

- Do you think it is Afghani or Irani people who established counselates in another country to harm Pakistan from another border ?

- Who attacked Sri Lankan cricket players in Lahore ?

- Who attacked location in Sindh, where Pakistan was working on submarines with Chinese or French teams ?

- After govt. of Pakistan has ALREADY confirmed India's envolvement in ALL the mess that we face in western part of current Pakistan, do you think Mr. Hoodbhoy is talking common sense ?

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Nov 2009 22:08 #
zia m
Member

He is against possession of nuclear weapons by all countries.Nuclear proliferation has brought us to the brink of destruction.Even Obama wants to see a nuclear free world.
Mullas of Iran claim use of nuclear weapons is unislamic.
Nuclear weapons is NOT the topic of his article.
Please enlighten us with your wisdom pertaining to his article.Open a separate thread for your sermons.Kabish

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Nov 2009 22:51 #
toamin
member

Regarding:

I would behead them as Hazrat Umar (RA, RAA) did with someone, who came to confirm the answer to a question he had already asked from Muhammad (SAW)

I don't have the reference to this hadith, but my understanding of that is two Muslims came to Rasoolullah SAS seeking judgement on their dispute, Rasoolullah SAS judged and resolved the dispute. One Muslim was not satisfied with the judgement so he went to Umar RA to get decision in his favor.

There hazrat Umar gave him capital punishment because he found that Rasoolullah SAS has already decided upon this matter and the Muslim not believing in Rasoolullah SAS judgement was '****'. So the punishment of **** was executed.

For those with western mindset, capital punishment is common punishment for 'high treason' charge, look around you before you utter some nonsense.

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Nov 2009 3:46 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

Muslims today, are suffering at the hands of non-Muslims.

Those who spread confusion amongst our ranks, those who promote divisions, should not be spared.

It is not that I have hate against a particular person. It is my consciounce which doesn't allow me to accept roadblocks in the path to our job to free Muslims from oppression.

I do not persecute people based on personal grudges. I ignore them. I engage people ONLY when I find their words, their actions meaning much larger things behind the curtain.

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Nov 2009 5:16 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@zia m: I do concede I read it later on. But, I did read that article. I read Hoodbhoy's prediction. I know what he wrote in that article. I quote;

------------------------------------------------------------------

Let me make an apparently outrageous proposition: in the coming years, India’s best protection is likely to come from its traditional enemy, the Pakistan Army. Therefore, India ought to now help, not fight, against it.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Hoodbhoy can 'predict' this because of KL Act. In KL Act, Pakistan govt. concedes, IT WILL make Pak Army fight off ALL militant groups that Pak army created, most of them who are busy in doing Jihad against India's oppression, US's oppression. Not just that, but also Pak Army will be forced by Govt. of Pakistan to implement, military operations far beyond that.

Through KL Act, they have effectively rendered Pak Army their boot licking policing Army, which will be tasked to kill its own people, mostly religious people, in the name of fighting 'terrorism'.

For example Mureedke, where they want to expand their military operations, is the base camp for 'Tableeghi Jamaat'. They will make Pak Army kill them ALL in the name of fighting 'terrorism'.

It is not only mind boggling, it is outrageous! to note his s|ck! thoughts.

Hoodhboy knows it pretty well. Through KL Act, US+Pakistan has legalized mass murder of innocent Pakistanis', those who are loyal to Islam, those who are loyal to Muslims' interests.

THAT is why he is 'able' to predict the future.

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Nov 2009 5:35 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

Right now, the military operations in FATA, in NWFP, have destroyed! the economy of FATA, NWFP. They have lost billions of dollar worth of infrastructure, business. They have made 30+ million IDPs out of people who were much better off before the military operations.

You don't go into an area, start mass level bombings to fight off a few hundred men, an area which has a large population. You conduct high intensity counter insurgency.

Who did it help in the end ? US! Because people of FATA, NWFP were busy helping Afghanis' against US's oppression.

Now their economy has been hit to an extent, it will be hard for them to help their brothers in Afghanistan.

A person who can't fend for himself, HOW is HE going to help his brother in Afghanistan or in Kashmir or in Pakistan itself ?

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Nov 2009 5:41 #
toamin
member

I haven't read Yahoodboy's article as I consider it waste of my time because I am aware of his views on neighbor relations + views on defense matters. Plus I doubt he would have changed his position that he has been preaching for over a decade.

What I find amazing is how you bring in reference to Muslim organizations to vent your fumes. Why do you think that it is the root cause problem of the whole world?

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Nov 2009 5:44 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@netengr: I am a Muslim. This is not about JI. This is about Muslims in general.

Either you are incredibly stupid, or you'r incredibly devious :-)

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Nov 2009 5:44 #
toamin
member

Good post Haris!

Keep it up.

Ignore the 'miss'-creant :)

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Nov 2009 5:48 #
zia m
Member

Americans need us more than we do them.KL-Bill is not worth the paper it is written on.What are they goining to do if we don't abide by their interpretation of the Bill? Sue us?

Obama is ready to send another 30-35 thousand troops to Afghanistan.We control their supply lines.We are in the driving seat.We should be able to convince them to lessen Indian influence in the region,if we play our cards right.

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Nov 2009 5:57 #
toamin
member

zia

Americans need us more than we do them.KL-Bill is not worth the paper it is written on.What are they goining to do if we don't abide by their interpretation of the Bill? Sue us?

Technically this is correct, but America knows how to use pressure tactics to get the things done.

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Nov 2009 5:59 #
toamin
member

Test

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Nov 2009 6:01 #
zia m
Member

We have a professional Army they can handle the presuure.
Zardari does not make national security decisions.

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Nov 2009 6:13 #
toamin
member

Army as institution is professional but army chief's character is questionable. Many sensitive issues surfaced after Seymour Hersh's report suggesting that things happening with full knowledge of Chief.

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Nov 2009 6:20 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

As bsobaid says, it is only baaps of establishment who can persuade establishment to submit to Pak Govt..

It is a deliberate plan to corner Pak Army through legal trickery.

If Pak Army;

- disobeys Pak Govt. US shows the rest of the world Pakistan is unstable, it needs help securing its nuclear arsenal

- obeys Pak Govt. it is forced to kill its own people under the garb of 'terrorism'

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Nov 2009 6:23 #
zia m
Member

I trust the army chief more than Seymour Hersh.
Or we can make you the army chief:)

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Nov 2009 6:26 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

In such a case, those who fight Pak Army for their survival, those who resist Pak Army, automatically become traitors, in the eyes of the nation.

Those who accept their murder at the hands of Pak Army die off without any hope of justice, retribution.

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Nov 2009 6:28 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

Why do you think GHQ was attacked JUST AFTER it came out in open public with its statement against KL Act ?

Are you ALL BLIND ?

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Nov 2009 6:31 #
toamin
member

zia m,

Blind trust or following is not good :)

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Nov 2009 6:32 #
zia m
Member

Those who fight against our army are guilty of treason.They must be eliminated.

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Nov 2009 6:33 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@zia m: Are you going to allow unjustified murder of innocent Muslims at the hands of Pak Army, just because Pak Army is supposed to be 'sacred cow' ?

How do you defend such utter crap ?

I don't accept this nonsense

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Nov 2009 6:34 #
toamin
member

No one is fighting against our army, it is Army that is forced to move to save American interests.

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Nov 2009 6:36 #
zia m
Member

No,they should be told to lay down their arms if they refuse the writ of the state must be established at all cost.

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Nov 2009 6:39 #
toamin
member

No, it is not about writ of the state, it is about protecting NATO/US interests accross the border.

Writ never existed there.. not even during British rule.

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Nov 2009 6:40 #
shahzad1924
member

@zia m - "No,they should be told to lay down their arms if they refuse the writ of the state must be established at all cost."

haven't we heard enough of this propaganda? the common man in Pakistan now knows that it wasn't the militants who challenged the writ of the state, it was the Americans who wanted to crush the safe havens in Pakistan in the first place.

who are you fooling?

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Nov 2009 6:41 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@zia m: You know what ? Laying down arms doesn't help. Because that means, they render themselves defenseless against Pak Army. Pak Army that is there to secure US's interests. Its been paid! money! for it, remember ?

Let me give you an example;

Watch the program Dunya Today dated 29-Oct-2009, in which Moeed invited Hamid Mir and one other guest. Listen to what Hamid Mir says in that program.

Musharraf ordered Gen. Orakzai to start! the killing of innocent people without! any reason, without! any violence from the other side, just because they wanted to appease US.

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Nov 2009 6:42 #
zia m
Member

If Sikhs were able to control the area,i am sure our army can handle it.Rest assured.

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Nov 2009 6:43 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

People call him as such because he openly supports and defends their made policies as if they were in the interest of Muslims, which they are never! Its an illusion.

When has adapting to US policy EVER helped Pakistan or Muslims of Pakistan ? In the entire history of Pakistan, WHEN has it helped us ?

He tries to give them intellectual cover, which is utter nonsense! from a person who's supposed to be 'educated'. By educated I mean, he's supposed to be able to differentiate between right and wrong, good and bad.

What do you call a person who is securing interests of foreigners while living within Muslims ?

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Nov 2009 6:46 #
toamin
member

As I anticipated, you don't know that perveiz is known Agha Khani and Agha Khani are non-Muslim.

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Nov 2009 6:47 #
shahzad1924
member

and if you dont believe JJ, go to QAU and ask anyone.

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Nov 2009 6:52 #
zia m
Member

We are willing to listen to Sey Hersh of jewish origin but not a Pakistani national.

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Nov 2009 6:53 #
toamin
member

Seymour Hersh is sharing research and facts, where as Hoodbhoy is sharing views that are contrary to mainstream society.

Hersh & Hoodbhoy can't be put in one equation, illogical.

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Nov 2009 6:54 #
zia m
Member

Sey is a close friend of Israel.How do you know he is not fooling you?

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Nov 2009 6:57 #
toamin
member

Like I said before, I don't blindly follow anyone :)

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Nov 2009 6:59 #
zia m
Member

Right,believe what you like to hear.

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Nov 2009 7:06 #
toamin
member

No, verify what you hear.

If a Jew tells you that your house is on fire, you would take action by first verifying and if true then putting out the fire.

Or you would ignore the news?

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Nov 2009 7:08 #
zia m
Member

You must have access to CIA and Pak Intelligence agencies.
Good luck!

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Nov 2009 7:22 #
toamin
member

I have access to ground reality! Can see things happening and can hear decisions made.

Only one needs to have skills to clear up propaganda clouds to get the real thing...

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Nov 2009 7:23 #
toamin
member

Pervez Hoodbhoy's family was follower of Prince Agha Khan, I think he even deserted that belief. Agha Khani are a further sect in Islmaili.

I don't want to go into your favourite discussions... Just wanted to inform you about it and now you know.

Members should avoid Muslim/Kafir issue and stay on topic

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Nov 2009 7:31 #
kq
Member

Moderator,

I want to know if calling a sect of Muslims as non-muslims i.e. Kafirs on the whims of a member, is allowed or not.
Isn't it a violation of the Code of Conduct?
If it is, action should be taken against the offending member.

Members should avoid Muslim/Kafir isssue and stay ontopic

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Nov 2009 8:23 #