Is our memory short being a nation?

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Is our memory short being a nation?

(29 posts)

aristotle
Member

A number of people say that Pakistani public has a very short memory that’s why PPP, PML-N and other political parties are still surviving in this country and ruling us. People have forget Zardari and Nawaz‘s corruption which was historical.

In my personal opinion, perhaps our memory is short but it’s not lost. We all remember Mr 10% and Mr Sharif’s adventures and achievements but the problem is that we don’t have 2nd option. Also, if we reject political parties so we will have military dictators who have proved them more cruel and nasty. So what we can do?

Guys! What do u think about it? plz comment.

Posted 3 years ago on 11 Aug 2008 11:52 #
azeem1
Member

we have third option. whats wrong with imran khan.

Posted 3 years ago on 11 Aug 2008 12:14 #
raheb
Member

OF course we have 3 rd. option! NOT TO VOTE for these corrupts. By that it do not necessarily mean military rule. There are many others who never get a good chance and they can be capable to run the country. Even then if I will be forced to choose among these corrupt politicians like, Nawaz, Zardari and com. and army, I will VOTE for Army, as I believe there can be few corrupts there also but much LESSER and at least more capable and many loyal with country, so option is always there.

raheb

Posted 3 years ago on 11 Aug 2008 13:49 #
azeem1
Member

@raheb
i really appriciate your courage otherwise on this jamhooriat loving forum no one can talk good about generals.

Posted 3 years ago on 11 Aug 2008 14:00 #
latentry
Member

You are right lads cant trust these politicians. Who can forget FAMOUS MR 10% now he is trying to be champion of JAMORIAT.
They all suck

Posted 3 years ago on 11 Aug 2008 15:36 #
rafi
Member

Vow, breeding ground for lovers of Dictators.

Posted 3 years ago on 11 Aug 2008 20:26 #
Insider
Member

how was musharraf cruel and nasty? the whole country loved him until he sacked the chief justice......then everyone remembered that he is a mahajir and that sindhi and punjabi pride overrules everything else.

Posted 3 years ago on 11 Aug 2008 22:35 #
rafi
Member

Nations memory is crisp and fresh. Gifts from Army rule and Controlled democracy from time to time:
1. Bangladesh
2. Siachin Debacle
3. Kargil Misadventure (By decepting NS)
4. Klashinkov & Heroin Culture
5. Adhocism
6. Worshipping the personality culture
7. Present FATA and Swat fall back
8. Alienation of smaller provinces
9. Defense Housing Authority (Sale of plots at dirt cheap rates)
10.Superiority complex by by Major Colonel etc with Bloody Civilian mindset.
11. Weaknening of all pilars of state with the exception of Armed forces.
12. Promoting feudalism

These aristocrats ruled the country for last fifty years (since 1958) directly or indirectly with complete immunity. So far I don't know name of any General who spent time behind bars. AZ, NS and almost all policians spent time in jail. As far as why he was popular fifteen month ago and why he isn't now. The answer is very simple, first of all he is not a king so he isn't a His Highness to rule the country forever. Secondly, public opinion doesn't need permission from pro dictatorship intellectuals who want to tell the public the that you guys are illiterate and hence not ready for democracy.

Posted 3 years ago on 12 Aug 2008 2:31 #
javedsheikh
Members

A 50 years Military rule could not deliver any extra-ordinary direction to make Pakistan a better worth living State.
Still there is a section of people, looking for the return of Martial Law as the only rescue.
It is nothing about the shortness of memory of the Nation, but the lack of political awareness.
This is the beauty of Democracy that political parties and the leaders once ousted and rejected by the voters can re-emerge and manage to come back with a fresh manifesto according to changing situation.
In America, the Republicans and Democrats. in UK Conservative, Labor and Liberal Parties, in India Congress, Junta , Communist and few other Parties are holding the political arena for the last 60 to 100 years. In spite of political, economic, moral and social mistakes by these political parties and their leaders, no one ever demanded or asked for Military intervention in the above mentioned Democratic States.
Do you think, the electoral college in the USA, UK and India, is short on memory?

Posted 3 years ago on 12 Aug 2008 4:03 #
secular__pakistan
Blocked

In America, when G W Bush and his entire administration of 20,000 people finish their two terms, they can never ever think of coming back. In the UK, when Tony Blair resigns, he can never even think of coming back. Over there, after a while, it is fresh faces, new leadership.

In Pakistan, the same group of people come back again and again and again. We have virtually the same people in politics and in the assemblies since 1985. And, then they pass the power on to their heirs. From Bhutto to Benazir to Zardari to Bilawal. From Nawaz Sharif to Shahbaz Sharif to Hamza Nawaz.

This beauty of democracy, is only theoretical, and, in Pakistan it doesnt work.

And I love these random figures you keep coming up with Mr. JavedShiekh. How did you come up with 50 years of military rule now?

11 years Ayub + 2 years Yahya + 11 years Zia + 8 years Musharraf = 32 years

What fresh manifesto have these re-emerged democrats given to Pakistan? Even their slogans have not changed much for 40 years (such as Roti, Kapra, Makan).

Posted 3 years ago on 12 Aug 2008 4:17 #
rafi
Member

JS Saheb
It is very unfortunate that people think Martial Law is better that democracy. But I don't blame them they are either too ignorant or they just didn't really enjoyed democratic values. I am sure that there are many intellectuals who maintain double standards. They want to live in a democratic country with full citizenship rights human right etc. but they don't want to give that same right to other fellow citizens of their own country. This is sheer hypocrisy. They question why media is so open in Pakistan while their adopted country does have same freedom of media.
They say a same politician comes back over and over; at least we have choice to elect one out of two. We do not have choice in dictatorship. Public have a stake in democracy, there is no stake in dictatorship.
It is true that the performance of present Government is not too good so far; well they had four months yet. We will see after four years and eight months; if they are still not up to expectation. Don't vote for them, do not re-elect them, bring another party give Imran Khan a chance. If one party is not performing the alternative is another part. Alternative is not Martial Law; but due to continuous grooming by PTV Khabarnama mindset of people has become like that. They act like PTV Khabarnama, where option is democracy VS. Martial law. Real option must be inside democracy.
One reason for this kind of mindset is very simple; they want magic wand to change everything by click of button. Click and here we have martial that would change everything, then another click and we have elected government that would change everything. Since they cannot make dictators accountable therefore they always make democracy accountable. There is brighter side too; subconsciously they actually expect from Democracy, that is why they criticize democracy which is good sign. They actually know that criticizing martial doesn’t mean anything but criticizing politicians may bring some positive results.

Posted 3 years ago on 12 Aug 2008 4:28 #
Asif
Blocked

"It is nothing about the shortness of memory of the Nation, but the lack of political awareness."

You are cent per cent right.

Whenever political forces have a chance, even then they never tried to raise the level of political awareness.

Why? Is it intentional or unintentional? which factor forces them to suppress the political awareness even when they were in govt.

Posted 3 years ago on 12 Aug 2008 4:30 #
secular__pakistan
Blocked

They dont want to raise political awareness as that will damage their own interests.

Mr. Rafi, perhaps you should come from America and live in Pakistani society first and see how democratic the society is. We are not yet capable of being a democracy, admit it, we are a nation of jahils. We do not believe in tolerance or democratic values.

I dont know why you assume democracy automatically results in civil rights, human rights, free media, freedom of choice/expression etc etc etc

This happens the world over. From Pakistan to the Palestinian terrorities to Bahrain.

I sure would love a liberal democracy like in the west, but, that wont happen in a backward jahil society like that of Pakistan.

Posted 3 years ago on 12 Aug 2008 4:49 #
javedsheikh
Members

The interference of Pakistan Military into politics started just after the death of the Qauid-i-Azam.
The real story starts with the assassination of Liaqat Ali Khan in 1951.
After the retirement of Gen. Gracy, the first Military Head in Pakistan, it was for the first time in a democratic culture where Ayub Khan the C-in-C of Pakistan Army, manipulated to win the status of member of the Cabinet in 1954, without being contesting the election from any Constituency.
How and where Maj. Gen. Skindar Mirza, the founder of Republican Party in 1956, came from?
The Military Generals enjoyed a long tenure up to 10 years or so, where the democratically elected leaders were never allowed to complete the Constitutional term.

Posted 3 years ago on 12 Aug 2008 4:54 #
rafi
Member

Politicians comes from us, they are not aliens who appear from flying saucers. We pee at the side of the road, so does District nazim. We spit our Paan or naswar so does MNA/MPA. Politicians mature with the nation, right now nation has strted showing signs of maturity so obviously policians are replicating it. Not a single glass was broken during long march, even MQM is maturing and doing mature politics rather than agitational style poltics. They are echos of the nation, army will not dare to interfare if nation will show maturity. We do not have to burn tyre or buses instead we must contineously put pressure therough, media, blogs and formemost in our behavious by showing tolernace and respect for other persons expression. I don't know if anybody noticed it or not but even this forum matured over last one year. Blogers started respecting the opinion of other blogers and in case of disagreement I see reasoning as a response rather than profanity and surse. I remember 1988, Benazir's first tenure I was sitting in group of five or six educated people at somebody house in Karachi. Suddendly, topic turned to politics and one gentelman praised BB and hell broke out another gentelman started with all kind of profanity against her and seen was very close to turn into wild west bar brawl. And beleive me it is not politics only, it trickled into very small behavious patterns in our lifestyles we take very small disagreement as an offense.
Our so called educated gentry doesn't use very simple words like PLEASE, SORRY and THANK YOU. Because these are words of weakness according cultural traditions.

Posted 3 years ago on 12 Aug 2008 5:06 #
Beenai
Moderator

@Dear Shiekh sahib,
military rulers enjoy longer period ....coz they ahve got nobody to interrupt their ruling ....
for civilian rulers there is always a check from military,stablishment and rival parties ....military and stablishment never want a civilian ruler to stay longer...
they just want to prove that politicians are incapabile to govern...

see ...a dictator was ruling us for the past 9 years ...and we tolerate him...
now a loly langri civilian Govt is here and ppl cant stand it for 4 months .
that s what military want ...stablishment wants ...
and more unfortunately our opportunist politicians wants...
like MQM,PIR PAGARA ,PML Q and others....

so if we have a longer period of ,Military rule blame has to b equally shared with militray ,stablishment ,ISI ,and political opportunists .....

Posted 3 years ago on 12 Aug 2008 5:20 #
secular__pakistan
Blocked

JavedShiekh,

After Quaid e Azam Jinnah, the interference was started by civilians, not by military. Ghulam Muhammad is widely believed to have been the man behind LA Khan's assassination. And, he was the one who for the first time in Pakistan's history, dissolve the assemblies.

Point is, you cannot blame the military alone. Military cannot interfere without their civilian collaborators and provokers. They are equally to be blamed.

Posted 3 years ago on 12 Aug 2008 6:05 #
javedsheikh
Members

It was just to clarify your query about the notion of 50 years Military control over Pakistan.
(Right now we are not discussing who did what?)
The Pakistan Military as an Institution, started to orchestrate for the control the Civil Administration, at the early stage of 50's.
They remained at the stage constantly, sometime as Actors, and sometimes as Directors and Music Directors.

Posted 3 years ago on 12 Aug 2008 6:39 #
secular__pakistan
Blocked

Mr. Sheikh,

I agree that the military has meddled in politics. But blaming them alone is not right for they have been encouraged and often provoked by their civilian counterparts to do so, and, their interference would not be possible without the the support of civilian counterparts or the blessing of the people.

Posted 3 years ago on 12 Aug 2008 6:54 #
Beenai
Moderator

@Dear Shiekh sahib,
here we have to agree with secular ....

Posted 3 years ago on 12 Aug 2008 7:21 #
aristotle
Member

Insider
i don’t think there is an issue of mush's nationality or community identity. Everyone who is cruel, nasty, humiliating the people, curbs the media & civil society ruined all institutions and sold the nation, he or they have to be answered. Every dictator had got his fate- a very terrible death and nobody remember them. More over, for ur kind information and just to keep record correct, all country had not been loving or liking mr mush before judiciary crisis, there was a major part of our society who did not like their policies and attitude but iftikhar ch gave a courage to nation and his”No” to the dictator is the leading factor of this wave. But I must say that only mush is not cause of chaos, Q-League and other partner political parties should be similarly accountable for all whatever happened in this country during past years.
I would request to all fellows, plz don’t discuss community based identity here. We all r Pakistanis and we must move towards a Pakistani nation building beyond the discrimination of cast, creed and community. This is need of hour, becoz politicians are always use these tactics to divide us and divert our attention from real issues. We don’t give them a chance again to do it.

Thanks all of u for ur comments

Posted 3 years ago on 12 Aug 2008 8:09 #
azeem1
Member

@all jamhooriat lovers

do u feel zardari, NS, bilawal, rehman malik, shreen rehman etc are one of us ?

i never felt so.

but for pervez musharef, somehow i feel he is a patriot pakistani.

God will never let him be disgraced through zardari.

Posted 3 years ago on 12 Aug 2008 9:05 #
Beenai
Moderator

@Azeem ,
i am surprised ....
u feel that a person who has sold Pakistan s soveregnity ...who has sold hundreds of ppl of Pakistan to US ....who has sold its institutions ....who has sold the land of Pakistan in the name of logistic support to US.....who has allowed US to come any time and start bombarding in our territory....who has ordered to kill innocent kids in Lal masjid and Jamia Hafsa....who has ruined the constitution of Pakistan.....
is somehow Patriotic??????
by no means ....i guess .
yah ...i am not saying that Bilawal or Zardari or Rehman Malik are patritic .
but Mush is in the same queue of opportunits ....

Posted 3 years ago on 12 Aug 2008 9:53 #
azeem1
Member

@beenai
I have a different opinion about lal masjid and jamia hafsa.
as far as logestic suport and helping ammericans is concerned, even imran khan would have done the same not to talk about others. ( remember Imran khan was with pervaz musharef in refrendum and change of policy regarding talibans).
constitution is not an asmani sahifa its a man made document and can be modified.
my dear supreme court of justice iftikhar allowed him to do so.

Posted 3 years ago on 12 Aug 2008 10:42 #
Asif
Blocked

The closed loop of generals & their poodles have to end. It started from Ayub & is continued till now.
The street movement for justice across the board has damaged this closed loop very heavily. And I thank the lawyers & media for spreading this message across the streets of Pakistan.
Even the current coalition are the long time poodles of generals so they think that one of them(mush & coalition) have to go to save this closed loop. And now its the turn of poodles as they have decided to sacrifice mush this time.

Justice driven courts is threat to generals as well as to their poodles. Both of them made money from the blood of Pakistanis & invested abroad. So they both want to divert the attention of the masses from justice to some other issue otherwise its the end of this closed loop.

Posted 3 years ago on 12 Aug 2008 13:26 #
SherryShamsi
Member

People memory is same like a person's memory. They never forget anyone who had done something for their betterment. That is why PPP inspite of all its leadership flaws, corruptions, and mistakes is only beloved party of Pakistanies. And that is why it is attacked by all means from around, it faced killings, bashings and imprisonments. All coalitions are formed against it. Recent version is also temporary, because establishment can't trust PPP in its any form. So dear, people memory is'nt short, they love their party and they trust it would surely come to them in the end.

Posted 3 years ago on 13 Aug 2008 15:53 #
Asif
Blocked

The lawyers are doning the job that the so-called major political forces should have done long ago, spreading of political awareness & awarness about their rights.

Thats the sole reason I regard lawyers movement much higher when we talk of democratic culture. I think its easy for all you to understand.

Posted 3 years ago on 13 Aug 2008 18:13 #
rafi
Member

Asif
I agre with you 100% percent, ;awyers movement is above all political parties. When the history will be written, Lawyers movement will be termed as the prime factor in turning point of Pakistan towards progress.

Posted 3 years ago on 13 Aug 2008 19:25 #
khyal-e-tanzim
Member

very informative and great comments on all the parties but can anyone tell me where all these people came from? are they not Pakistanis? If you read all the post and analyze them carefully then one thing will become clear that everyone has good and bad points against each other but the truth is that they all talk the same and do the same. When one is in power he tells the people that he does it for writ of the government and others tell the people that they are getting dictation from america. This is what is going on. Beenai can see the bad side of musharrif but she cannot see the good done by him. this is how we deal with matters. when we are with someone then we never accept that he can be wrong or when we are against anyone we never accept that he has some good in him too.

we love blame game this gives us satisfaction that we are good. Hope all the participants will not mind this simple fact.

Regards.

Posted 3 years ago on 13 Aug 2008 20:43 #