PKPolitics Discuss » Faith and Religion

Islam and Slavery.

(81 posts)
  1. shimatoree
    Member

    In modern historical times-

    The Thirteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution abolished slavery and involuntary servitude, except as punishment for a crime.
    It was passed by the Senate on April 8, 1864, passed by the House on January 21, 1865, and adopted on December 6, 1865.

    Abe Lincoln did not claim authority that he had legitimacy from God Almighty.

    My question is and has always been why Islam did not declare slavery illegal and immoral just like it did many social and economic evils.

    What is even more shocking is that a system( Islam) the proponents of which claim the ultimate authority of God – the Islamic scholarship has failed to make one statement to the effect of dealing with slavery.

    Posted 1 year ago on 03 Oct 2010 17:18 #
  2. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    You think;

    (1) slavery doesn't exist in the west today
    (2) slavery isn't being perpetuated by the west today

    simply because its 'written' in 'constitution' of USA or because you 'note' the people living their lives in luxury, harmony, tranquility in the west, today ?

    Check again. Look again. You haven't looked hard enough.

    Do you want me to open your 'eyes' i.e., the eyes of your 'mind' ?

    Posted 1 year ago on 03 Oct 2010 18:42 #
  3. HK above does have a point, I'd say. But perhaps it's not quite what shimatoree required as an answer. I don't know what to say either on the topic of this thread. But let me give you a few lines from Iqbal on the subject.

    "The Prophet of Islam, being a link between the ancient and modern world, declared the principle of equality and though, like ever wise reformer, he slightly conceded to the social conditions around him in retaining the name slavery, he quietly took away the whole spirit of this institution. That slaves had equal oppportunity with other Muhammadans is evidenced by the fact that some of the greatest Muslim warriors, kings, premiers, scholars and jurists were slaves."

    Does this help at all to answer some of your questions, shimatoree? In any case, whether slavery was "officially" abolished or not in Islam, it has not been officially practised for centuries now as far as I know.

    Posted 1 year ago on 03 Oct 2010 19:14 #
  4. As usual Shimatoree has posted an issue that demands a rational broadminded approach to tackle this topic. Best done by attacking thread topic and not members.

    Posted 1 year ago on 03 Oct 2010 19:43 #
  5. shimatoree
    Member

    MG-

    You did not answer the question that I have raised.
    The answers from circles who are frozen in time are meaningless and as expected they avoid the question raised by using rhetoric and euphemisms and assumptions that I do not know or I do not think. As Saadi said............

    I am not willing to accept an apologetic answer such as the condition of slaves was good and there were a lot of leaders in the Muslim world who were previous slaves. This approach though well meaning is disingenuous and avoids the question. Plus it selectively looks at a very few false examples which merely prove the contrary. You appear to be a kind and sensitive person-( in my opinion) with an open mind- so let me ask you a question.

    Do you know what it might feel to be taken by force and made into a slave ?
    To be a teenage girl - to have your mother and father killed and then taken as a concubine.
    And the Slave trade would have at least been reduced
    Do you know what Ayaz might have felt when he was taken as a slave before he went on to become a prime minister.

    This step not taken further damaged the Muslims in a way that most people either do not think about or do not wish to talk about.
    And that is the rampant discrimination that was the norm by the Muslim Arabs against the non Arab Muslims( Mawalis).

    That is the notion that somehow another human being is less human than the aristocracy of the Muslim armies( Arab).

    I am sure you can reflect and see the merit of my argument

    Let me try to re-phrase the question.

    What would have happened if Islam had declared slavery
    -illegal like it declared fornication illegal.

    -like it declared stealing illegal

    -like it declared murder illegal.

    What would have happened of the Holy Prophet had freed all his slaves. Everyone who followed him would have had to follow the Sunnah and the rest of the Muslims would have done the same.
    So why did he not do it ?

    That is my simple question

    I will tell you what would have happened.

    Today all of the world would be having an overwhelming Muslim Majority.

    I know I am asking a very difficult question for which I do not think there is an answer in spite of all the squirming and gesticulating that I am sure is coming.

    Posted 1 year ago on 03 Oct 2010 19:53 #
  6. Molvis say that Kaneez, nokrani, slave women is the PROPERTY of the man where she works. He can 'use' her. They prove it with islam, they say that it was allowed by Prophet.

    Posted 1 year ago on 03 Oct 2010 20:13 #
  7. Shimatoree, I did say the question stumps me and then I went on to quote Iqbal's views on the matter.

    As to what I would have felt if taken into slavery, etc., I'd probably have committed suicide. As it is, I have always thought of myself as a slave of the west and not just me; to my mind, the entire population of the Subcontinent has been in this state and for quite a long time now. That is why I have never had as happy a life as I should perhaps have had. Right, enough of the personal bit.

    Let me add one more thing. That Islam declared murder, stealing and fornication illegal came from the Old Testament already. The Old Testament did not condemn slavery either. Christianity which became the religion of the slaves within the Roman Empire did not condemn slavery in its turn. But then, of course, the New Testament carried practically no legislation of any kind. Why Islam did not go one step further and openly denounce slavery I can really not say. You would need theologians to address the question with any seriousness.

    Agreed that had it been done so at the time, the world today would have had an overwhelmingly Muslim Majority. But, then again, Shimatoree, even with this "omission" Islam has a world majority. Not an overwhelming one yet. That is yet to come. But a majority among world religious groups all the same.

    Posted 1 year ago on 03 Oct 2010 20:14 #
  8. shimatoree
    Member

    LifeH2O

    The whole thing is very difficult to decipher.

    Imagine that the Mullah and others retroactively created the myth that when the Holy Prophet married Ayesha she was 9 years old.
    That is not true and it was done to justify their own predilection for that kind of pleasure seeking adventures.

    Posted 1 year ago on 03 Oct 2010 20:29 #
  9. shimatoree
    Member

    MG-

    You remember the thread about

    Fate- a Muslim Tragedy

    This is more of the same issue of fate.

    Posted 1 year ago on 03 Oct 2010 20:31 #
  10. There are many things in mullah's religion on which a sensible person will think about its stupidness while mullah says Subhaan Allah

    Posted 1 year ago on 03 Oct 2010 20:44 #
  11. Yes, Shimatoree, I do agree. Fate has played a role in much of this. I was discussing this earlier with someone who knows the Holy Book better than I do. And he pointed out that the Quran Sharif does say that granting freedom to slaves would be an act of great merit. Only, Muslims down the centuries have tended to pay less and less attention to what Allah required of them. They stuck to ritual and ignored much of the rest. It is something we see happening down till today. Your remark about the Arab superiority complex has also played some part in maintaining slavery as an institution, whereas it should have been abolished by decree a long time ago.

    Posted 1 year ago on 03 Oct 2010 21:30 #
  12. NNL
    member

    It says in a hadeeth qudsi: “Allaah, may He be exalted, said: ‘There are three whose opponent I will be on the Day of Resurrection, and whomever I oppose, I will defeat … A man who sold a free man and consumed his price.’” Narrated by al-Bukhaari (2227).

    Hmm i can post a very good article on this topic but the questioner isnt interested in the answer just wants to insult Islam.

    Islam was never about Equality it is and shall be a religion of Justice ( I can imagine Haris going finally someone agrees)

    So whatever

    Posted 1 year ago on 04 Oct 2010 7:37 #
  13. fayyaz214
    Member

    NNL please post the article.

    shimatoree, good question. Islam did not outright ban slavary, as it did steeling, riba, drinking etc. I would like this group to consider this question.

    Was an outright ban of salvary better than a gradual dissolutoin of the institution for the people who were slave?

    What would have been a better approach to deal with prisoners of war at that time?

    Did Quran and the seerah not encouraged believers to free up slaves?

    If US had eliminated slavary gradually, then would conditions of Afro Americans in US today had been worse or better?

    Posted 1 year ago on 04 Oct 2010 15:12 #
  14. fayyaz214
    Member

    one more question, find a person who has worked for a company for 20 years. If they are suddently let go, they have really hard time find another job. Because only thing they know is that company. Imagine a slave, who suddently finds out that he has to make his own decisions and is not ready for it?

    Posted 1 year ago on 04 Oct 2010 15:15 #
  15. NNL, I've been thinking it over and what occurs to me is this: Can one conceive of Justice without there being Equality as well? Somehow no pat answer occurs.

    Posted 1 year ago on 04 Oct 2010 19:02 #
  16. change_is_close
    Member

    @MG
    "Can one conceive of Justice without there being Equality as well?"

    yes! is it just to force the woman to work just like men to make a living? no, it is not! but is it equal? yes, it is!

    @everyone
    the point that i'm trying to drive home is that what is just is decided by the Creator, whether or not it sounds equal or not. we are generally in a habit to justify the ahkaam shariah by logics and rationale - this is TOTALLY wrong! this is NOT the way of a muslim. a muslim 'listens and obeys' (Sami'na Wa Ata'na). where we do (and MUST) use rationale, however, is in Aqeedah (Existence and oneness of Allah, Muhammad (SAW) being Allah's last Prophet, Quran being Allah's book). Once we arrive to this conclusion via rationale, we simply listen and obey whatever we're given by Quran - makes sense? We can discuss more if it doesn't make sense.

    Here are a few references from Quran regarding listen-and-obey:

    "And it befits not a believing (Muslim) man or a believing (Muslim) woman, when Allah and His (Prophetic) Messenger have decreed a matter (for them), that they should (after that) claim ANY CHOICE in their matter; and whoso disobeys Allah and His (Prophetic) Messenger, he has surely gone astray in manifest error." (33:36)

    "And whatever the (Prophetic) Messenger gives you, take it and whatever he forbids you, abstain (from it), and be in reverential awe of Allah; surely Allah is severe in retributing (evil). (59:7)

    Human intellect is not capable to decide right and wrong about in every issue, that is why Allah has given us Shariah. The ayah below is one of those that really shakes me, especially, the last part:
    "It is written/ordered on you the fighting/killing, and it is hated to you and maybe/perhaps you hate a thing and it is best/good to you, and maybe/perhaps you like/love a thing and it is bad/evil to you, and God knows, and you do not know." (2:216)

    so brother, Allah tells us that we may dislike something, which is good for us and vice versa. so let's not try to justify every command of Allah based on our limited and relative intellect.

    Posted 1 year ago on 04 Oct 2010 19:35 #
  17. Thanks, change is close, shall think over your words as well. Egalitarian Islam has always been taught us a matter of course. Iqbal preached it to us as well. What you and others seem to be saying above is within that egalitarianism, some people are more equal than others, i.e. the male of the species. Needs some getting used to the idea, but no doubt over time that can be managed as well. But, in the final anaysis, we might come to the conclusion that Islam is neither the religion of equality, nor that of justice, but of something totally different which yet needs to be defined.

    Posted 1 year ago on 04 Oct 2010 19:42 #
  18. Lets share this too:

    In my opinion, among many other misconceptions about Islam is the notion that it gives sanction to slavery and permits its followers to enslave prisoners of war, particularly women and establish extra-marital relations with them. Islam, I must strongly affirm, has not the slightest link with slavery and concubinage. On the contrary, it completely forbids these practices. It is quite outrageous to associate such barbarities with a religion revealed to upgrade humanity.

    The point which needs to be appreciated and which, perhaps, is the real cause of the misconception is that Islam had adopted a gradual process to abolish the institution of slavery because of the social conditions prevalent in Arabia at that time.

    It must be kept in mind that slavery was an integral part of the pre-Islamic Arab society. There were scores of slave men and women in almost every house. This was largely due to two reasons: First, during those times, the standard practice of dispensing with prisoners of war was to distribute them among the army who captured them. Second, there were extensive slave markets in Arabia in that period where free as well as men and women of all ages were sold like animals.

    In these circumstances, in which slavery had become an essential constituent of the Arab society, Islam adopted a gradual way to eliminate it. An immediate order of prohibition would have created immense social and economic problems. It would have become impossible for the society to cater for the needs of a large army of slaves, who were, otherwise, dependent on various families. Also, the national treasury was in no position to provide them all on a permanent basis.

    A large number among them were old and incapable of supporting themselves. The only alternative left for them, if they were instantly freed, would have been to turn to beggary and become an economic burden for the society. The question of slave girls and women was even more critical, keeping in view their own low moral standards. Freeing them, all of a sudden, would have only resulted in a tremendous increase in brothels.

    Perhaps, the reason behind this gradual eradication can be understood better if one considers the position which interest occupies in the economy of Pakistan today.

    No one can refute Pakistan’s national economic structure is interest oriented. How the parasite of interest has crippled the national economy is apparent to every keen eye. However, there is no denying the fact that without it our present economic system cannot sustain itself. Every reasonable person will acknowledge that today if a government wishes to rid the economy from this menace then, in spite of its utter prohibition in Islam, it will have to adopt a gradual methodology. During this interim period interest oriented deals will have to be tolerated and temporary laws will have to be enacted to handle them, just as the Qur’an had given certain provisional directives about slaves during the interim period of their gradual eradication. An alternative economic framework will have to be steadily incorporated in place of the existing one. A sudden abolition, without another parallel base, will only hasten the total collapse of the economic system, which, of course, will be disastrous for the country.

    To avert a similar disaster and to ward off a similar catastrophe, Islam had adopted a progressive and a gradual scheme, fourteen hundred years ago, to do away with the inhuman institution of slavery. Following are some of the measures it took in this regard:
    1. In the early Makkan period, it pronounced that slave emancipation was a great deed of piety. The very initial Makkan surahs appealed to the Muslims to liberate as many slaves as they could.
    2. The Prophet (sws), unequivocally, directed the Muslims to raise the standard of living of the slaves and bring it equal to their own standard. This, of course, was meant to discourage people from persisting with them.
    3. For the atonement of many sins manumission of slaves was divinely ordained.
    4. All slave men and women who could support themselves in the society were directed to marry one another, in order to raise their moral and social status.
    5. A permanent head in the public treasury was fixed to set free slave men and women.
    6. Prostitution, which was largely carried out through slave women, who were mostly forced by their masters do so, was totally prohibited.
    7. The affronting names of ‘abd (slave-man) and amah (slave-woman) by which slave men and women were called, were abrogated so that people should stop regarding them as slaves. In their place, the words fata (boy) and fatat (girl) were introduced.
    8. Finally, the law of mukatibat provided very easy access for the slaves to the gateway to freedom. Every slave who was capable of supporting himself was allowed by law to free himself, provided that he either gave a certain monetary amount to his master or carried out certain errands for him. After this, he could live as a free man. A special head in the treasury was fixed for this purpose; also, wealthy people were urged to help the slaves in this regard. The net result of this law was that only handicapped and old slaves were left to be provided for by their masters, which not only went in their own favour but also prevented them from becoming an economic burden on the society.

    As far as the war you have referred to, let me correct you on your information.

    In the battle of Bani Mustaliq, the prisoners captured were either freed in the battlefield as a favour while some others were freed on ransom. The Prophet (sws) brought the remaining prisoners to Madinah and while waiting for their families to procure them, gave them into the temporary custody of his Companions (rta). Since at that time, the prohibition of slavery was passing through the interim period when it was still intact for reasons stated earlier, the Prophet (sws) accepted the right of masters to have sexual intercourse with the slave women as was the international law at that time but set about taking steps that could prevent this from actually happening. Let me explain the most important measure he adopted:

    Among the prisoners of this battle was Sayyidah Jawayriyyah as well. Her father arrived with some camels as ransom. The Prophet (sws) inquired about the two well-bred camels he had hid behind. This astounded him so much – for he knew that there could be no way that the Prophet (sws) could have had knowledge of them – that he accepted faith. At this, Sayyidah Jawayriyyah also accepted faith. The Prophet (sws) proposed for her to which her father consented. Upon this, the marriage was solemnized. The result of this marriage was that all the remaining prisoners of war were set free by the Muslim soldiers, since they thought that it was not appropriate to keep the Prophet’s in-laws in captivity.

    So actually no such instance of sexual intercourse with the slave women took place. It is totally wrong that they were raped. Also today as far as prisoners of was are concerned, they cannot be taken to be slaves and sexually benefited from. After the abolition of slavery that took place in the time of the Prophet (sws) as described above, no one dare maltreat a p.o.w. let alone sexually harass them.

    http://www.renaissance.com.pk/aprq12y2.html

    Posted 1 year ago on 04 Oct 2010 19:45 #
  19. change_is_close
    Member

    @MG
    Islam is definitely a deen of justice, b/c Allah is Al-Aadil (The Just) - it is part of our belief. I wouldn't be too happy to try and fit Islam into the definition of Egalitarian. I would, however, say that Islam is just, b/c Allah says that He Himself is Just.

    As for the notion of men being more equal than the women, the question that i raised about forcing a woman to work, proves the contrary, in the given scenario. you might find it the other way around in another situation. but whatever is the logic/rationale behind the Ahkaam of Allah, we can never ascertain. we can guess, like most ppl try to do these days, but we can never come up with a conclusive answer. so i'd say brother, let's leave the matter of deciding right or wrong to The Creator (that's his Job), and let's work to establish His commands, which is OUR job!

    one more thing that i'd like to say is, we should not be apologetic about the commands of Allah and should NOT try to justify them based on our limited intellect. As Allah says "...and God knows, and you do not know."

    Posted 1 year ago on 04 Oct 2010 19:54 #
  20. change_is_close
    Member

    @semirza
    thanks, brother.

    shimatoree was interested in knowing why islam didn't outrightly forbid slavery (as it did in case of riba or burying the daughters alive), and why the Prophet (SAW) approved of it? i was trying to say that it is not for a Muslim to question the commands of Allah and His Messenger (SAW) - we just listen and obey.

    Posted 1 year ago on 04 Oct 2010 19:59 #
  21. shimatoree
    Member

    semirza-

    I find it difficult to accept the explaination that has been put forth.

    The justification for a " gradual" approach is given as social upheaval .
    Now should we by using the same logic apply the same or similar rationale to some other events that took place in those times ?

    Or is this explaination an "after the fact" type ?

    Islamic Sharia was put in place because it was God's law without any other considerations.
    Also above someone has quoted that Islam means surrender to the will of God and no rationalization is allowed (a muslim 'listens and obeys' (Sami'na Wa Ata'na).)

    So I come back to my question again.

    If the Sharia forbids Fornication, murder etc why does it take a different approach towards slavery.

    The main problem I have with the explaination is that as a direct result of not banning slavery- for more than a 1000 years slavery continued as most took a legalistic approach- since it is not disallowed therfroe it is allowed.

    Posted 1 year ago on 04 Oct 2010 20:06 #
  22. change_is_close
    Member

    @shimatoree
    the matter of what is shariah ruling on slavery is to be discussed by the scholars of Islam, not you and i. as for the approach of your question, it is totally wrong to question the rationale of a command of Allah and His Messenger (SAW), unless They've told the logic Themselves. also, it is incorrect to try and justify the commands of Allah based on our limited intellect. i would again say, that this is about the Ahkaam Shariah, and not about the Aqeedah/belief of Islam itself. You're free to question/discuss the Aqeedah of Islam on a rational basis - as the scholars of Islam used to do. but once you're convinced that Islam is divine, you're not supposed to question the orders of Allah. I've quoted some evidences from Quran above. we can discuss if you disagree with the meaning of these verses, or the whole idea of submission to the will of Allah.

    Posted 1 year ago on 04 Oct 2010 20:26 #
  23. fayyaz214
    Member

    @shimatoree, i think we can agree that there are different kinds of deceases, some can be eliminated upright and some have to be eliminated gradually. For example, drug addiction, one needs to get rid of it gradually. Do you agree that there are two kinds of deceases? We may disagree in what category slavery fall, but I hope we can agree that some deceases have to be eliminated gradually.

    Posted 1 year ago on 04 Oct 2010 20:29 #
  24. shimatoree
    Member

    @change is close-

    I must respectfully but forcefully disagree about this bit about scholars of Islam.

    The scholars of Islam is the very reason why we are in this pickle today . Islam forbids priesthood and clergy even though some would like to sort of come from behind towards it by the words such as Mullah and Ayatollah and scholar.

    The scholars have merely tried to provide explainations after the fact which in a legal sense do not hold water.

    I will just say that not banning slavery has been the greatest tragedy for the Muslims and their history.
    This issue has functioned as the mother of many other evils which were justified and perpetuated for a very long time and the result is in front of everyone's eyes.

    Posted 1 year ago on 04 Oct 2010 20:51 #
  25. shimatoree
    Member

    fayyaz214

    To compare the process of legislation to medical conditions is not quite correct.

    My contention is simple-

    There was no reticence shown in declaring murder a crime and it was forbidden. No gradual approach there even though the Jahaliyah Arabs were wanton killers and murderers
    Dito for fornication .
    Dito for stealing.

    My problem is that I see
    -the non abolition of slavery also provides a justification for the designation of women with 50 % of rights of men.
    For example according to Sharia a girl only gets 1/2 of what the boy gets in inheritence and the explaination is given that when she gets married she also gets part of what her husband gets.
    Well, what if she does not get married ?
    Why does'nt she have an equal right of inheritence ?

    Now if you use the logic that the Muslims are not to question why- it is an order from above and all you have to do is follow the orders- well then we get into all kinds of difficluties.

    Posted 1 year ago on 04 Oct 2010 21:03 #
  26. Anwer Kamal
    Member

    No Concern with topic but read it.
    ایک شخص نے یوں قصہ سنایا کہ

    میں اور میرے ماموں نے حسب معمول مکہ حرم شریف میں نماز جمعہ ادا کی اورگھر کو واپسی کیلئے روانہ ہوئے۔ شہر سے باہر نکل کر سڑک کے کنارے کچھ فاصلے پر ایک بے آباد سنسان مسجد آتی ہے، مکہ شریف کو آتے جاتے سپر ہائی وے سے بارہا گزرتے ہوئے اس جگہ اور اس مسجد پر ہماری نظر پڑتی رہتی ہے اور ہم ہمیشہ ادھر سے ہی گزر کر جاتے ہیں مگر آج جس چیز نے میری توجہ اپنی طرف کھینچ لی تھی وہ تھی ایک نیلے رنگ کی فورڈ کار جو مسجد کی خستہ حال دیوار کے ساتھ کھڑی تھی، چند لمحے تو میں سوچتا رہا کہ اس کار کا اس سنسان مسجد کے پاس کیا کام! مگر اگلے لمحے میں نے کچھ جاننے کا فیصلہ کرتے ہوئے اپنی کار کو رفتار کم کرتے ہوئے مسجد کی طرف جاتی کچی سائڈ روڈ پر ڈال دیا، میرا ماموں جو عام طور پر واپسی کا سفر غنودگی میں گزارتا ہے اس نے بھی اپنی اپنی آنکھوں کو وا کرتے ہوئے میری طرف حیرت سے دیکھتے ہوئے پوچھتا، کیا بات ہے، ادھر کیوں جا رہے ہو؟

    ہم نے اپنی کار کو مسجد سے دور کچھ فاصلے پر روکا اور پیدل مسجد کی طرف چلے، مسجد کے نزدیک جانے پر اندر سے کسی کی پرسوز آواز میں سورۃ الرحمٰن تلاوت کرنے کی آواز آ رہی تھی، پہلے تو یہی اردہ کیا کہ باہر رہ کر ہی اس خوبصورت تلاوت کو سنیں ، مگر پھر یہ سوچ کر کہ اس بوسیدہ مسجد میں جہاں اب پرندے بھی شاید نہ آتے ہوں، اند جا کر دیکھنا تو چاہیئے کہ کیا ہو رہا ہے؟

    ہم نے اند جا کر دیکھا ایک نوجوان مسجد میں جاء نماز بچھائے ہاتھ میں چھوٹا سا قرآن شریف لئے بیٹھا تلاوت میں مصروف ہے اور مسجد میں اس کے سوا اور کوئی نہیں ہے۔ بلکہ ہم نے تو احتیاطا ادھر ادھر دیکھ کر اچھی طرح تسلی کر لی کہ واقعی کوئی اور موجود تو نہیں ہے۔

    میں نے اُسے السلام و علیکم و رحمۃ اللہ و برکاتہ کہا، اس نے نطر اُٹھا کر ہمیں دیکھا، صاف لگ رہا تھا کہ کسی کی غیر متوقع آمد اس کے وہم و گمان میں بھی نہ تھی، حیرت اس کے چہرے سے عیاں تھی۔

    اُس نے ہمیں جوابا وعلیکم السلام و علیکم و رحمۃ اللہ و برکاتہ کہا۔

    میں نے اس سے پوچھا، عصر کی نماز پڑھ لی ہے کیا تم نے، نماز کا وقت ہو گیا ہے اور ہم نماز پڑھنا چاہتے ہیں۔

    اُس کے جواب کا انتظار کئے بغیر میں نے اذان دینا شروع کی تو وہ نوجوان قبلہ کی طرف رخ کئے مسکرا رہا تھا، کس بات پر یا کس لئے یہ مسکراہٹ، مجھے پتہ نہیں تھا۔ عجیب معمہ سا تھا۔

    پھر اچانک ہی اس نوجوان نے ایک ایسا جملہ بولا کہ مجھے اپنے اعصاب جواب دیتے نظر آئے،

    نوجوان کسی کو کہہ رہا تھا؛ مبارک ہو، آج تو باجماعت نماز ہوگی۔

    میرے ماموں نے بھی مجھے تعجب بھری نظروں سے دیکھا جسے میں نظر انداز کر تے ہوئے اقامت کہنا شروع کردی۔

    جبکہ میرا دماغ اس نوجوان کے اس فقرے پر اٹکا ہوا تھا کہ مبارک ہو، آج تو باجماعت نماز ہوگی۔

    دماغ میں بار بار یہی سوال آ رہا تھا کہ یہ نوجوان آخر کس سے باتیں کرتا ہے، مسجد میں ہمارے سوا کوئی بندہ و بشر نہیں ہے، مسجد فارغ اور ویران پڑی ہے۔ کیا یہ پاگل تو نہیں ہے؟

    میں نے نماز پڑھا کر نوجوان کو دیکھا جو ابھی تک تسبیح میں مشغول تھا۔

    میں نے اس سے پوچھا، بھائی کیا حال ہے تمہارا؟ جسکا جواب اس نے ــ’بخیر و للہ الحمد‘ کہہ کر دیا۔

    میں نے اس سے پھر کہا، اللہ تیری مغفرت کرے، تو نے میری نماز سے توجہ کھینچ لی ہے۔ ’وہ کیسے‘ نوجوان نے حیرت سے پوچھا۔

    میں نے جواب دیا کہ جب میں اقامت کہہ رہا تھا تو نے ایک بات کہی مبارک ہو، آج تو باجماعت نماز ہوگی۔

    نوجوان نے ہنستے ہوئے جواب دیا کہ اس میں ایسی حیرت والی کونسی بات ہے؟

    میں نے کہا، ٹھیک ہے کہ اس میں حیرت والی کوئی بات نہیں ہے مگر تم بات کس سے کر رہے تھے آخر؟

    نوجوان میری بات سن کر مسکرا تو ضرور دیا مگر جواب دینے کی بجائے اس نے اپنی نظریں جھکا کر زمین میں گاڑ لیں، گویا سوچ رہا ہو کہ میری بات کا جواب دے یا نہ دے۔

    میں نے اپنی بات کو جاری رکھتے ہوئے کہا کہ مجھے نہیں لگتا کہ تم پاگل ہو، تمہاری شکل بہت مطمئن اور پر سکون ہے، اور ماشاءاللہ تم نے ہمارے ساتھ نماز بھی ادا کی ہے۔

    اس بار اُس نے نظریں اُٹھا کر مجھے دیکھا اور کہا؛ میں مسجد سے بات کر رہا تھا۔

    اس کی بات میرے ذہن پر بم کی کی طرح لگی، اب تو میں سنجیدگی سے سوچنے لگا کہ یہ شخص ضرور پاگل ہے۔

    میں نے ایک بار پھر اس سے پوچھا، کیا کہا ہے تم نے؟ تم اس مسجد سے گفتگو کر رہے تھے؟ تو پھر کیا اس مسجد نے تمہیں کوئی جواب دیا ہے؟

    اُس نے پھرمسکراتے ہوئے ہی جواب دیا کہ مجھے ڈر ہے تم کہیں مجھے پاگل نہ سمجھنا شروع کر دو۔

    میں نے کہا، مجھے تو ایسا ہی لگ رہا ہے، یہ فقط پتھر ہیں، اور پتھر نہیں بولا کرتے۔

    اُس نے مسکراتے ہوئے کہا کہ آپکی بات ٹھیک ہے یہ صرف پتھر ہیں۔

    اگر تم یہ جانتے ہو کہ یہ صرف پتھر ہیں جو نہ سنتے ہیں اور نہ بولتے ہیں تو باتیں کس سے کیں؟

    نوجوان نے نظریں پھر زمیں کی طرف کر لیں، جیسے سوچ رہا ہو کہ جواب دے یا نہ دے۔

    اور اب کی بار اُس نے نظریں اُٹھائے بغیر ہی کہا کہ ؛

    میں مسجدوں سے عشق کرنے والا انسان ہوں، جب بھی کوئی پرانی، ٹوٹی پھوٹی یا ویران مسجد دیکھتا ہوں تو اس کے بارے میں سوچتا ہوں

    مجھے اُنایام خیال آجاتا ہے جب لوگ اس مسجد میں نمازیں پڑھا کرتے ہونگے۔

    پھر میں اپنے آپ سے ہی سوال کرتا ہوں کہ اب یہ مسجد کتنا شوق رکھتی ہوگی کہ کوئی تو ہو جو اس میں آکر نماز پڑھے، کوئی تو ہو جو اس میں بیٹھ کر اللہ کا ذکر کرے۔ میں مسجد کی اس تنہائی کے درد کو محسوس کرتا ہوں کہ کوئی تو ہو جو ادھر آ کر تسبیح و تحلیل کرے، کوئی تو ہو جو آ کر چند آیات پڑھ کر ہی اس کی دیواروں کو ہلا دے۔

    میں تصور کر سکتا ہوں کہ یہ مسجد کس قدر اپنے آپ کو باقی مساجد میں تنہا پاتی ہوگی۔

    کس قدر تمنا رکھتی ہوگی کہ کوئی آکر چند رکعتیں اور چند سجدے ہی اداکر جائے اس میں۔

    کوئی بھولا بھٹکا مسافر، یا راہ چلتا انسان آ کر ایک اذان ہی بلند کرد ے۔

    پھر میں خود ہی ایسی مسجد کو جواب دیا کرتا ہوں کہ اللہ کی قسم، میں ہوں جو تیرا شوق پورا کرونگا۔

    اللہ کی قسم میں ہوں جو تیرے آباد دنوں جیسے ماحول کو زندہ کرونگا۔

    پھر میں ایسی مسجدمیں داخل ہو کر دو رکعت پڑھتا ہوں اور قرآن شریف کے ایک سیپارہ کی تلاوت کرتا ہوں۔

    میرے بھائی، تجھے میری باتیں عجیب لگیں گی، مگر اللہ کی قسم میں مسجدوں سے پیار کرتا ہوں، میں مسجدوں کا عاشق ہوں۔

    میری آنکھوں آنسوؤں سے بھر گئیں، اس بار میں نے اپنی نظریں زمیں میں ٹکا دیں کہ کہیں نوجوان مجھے روتا ہوا نہ دیکھ لے،

    اُس کی باتیں۔۔۔۔۔ اُس کا احساس۔۔۔۔۔اُسکا عجیب کام۔۔۔۔۔اور اسکا عجیب اسلوب۔۔۔۔۔کیا عجیب شخص ہے جسکا دل مسجدوں میں اٹکا رہتا ہے۔۔۔۔۔

    میرے پاس کہنے کیلئے اب کچھ بھی تو نہیں تھا۔

    صرف اتنا کہتے ہوئے کہ، اللہ تجھے جزائے خیر دے، میں نے اسے سلام کیا، مجھے اپنی دعاؤں میں یاد رکھنا کہتے ہوئے اُٹھ کھڑا ہوا۔

    مگر ایک حیرت ابھی بھی باقی تھی۔

    نوجوان نے پیچھے سے مجھے آواز دیتے ہوئے کہا تو میں دروازے سے باہر جاتے جاتے رُک گیا،

    نوجوان کی نگاہیں ابھی بھی جُھکی تھیں اور وہ مجھے کہہ رہا تھا کہ جانتے ہو جب میں ایسی ویران مساجد میں نماز پڑھ لیتا ہوں تو کیا دعا مانگا کرتا ہوں؟

    میں نے صرف اسے دیکھا تاکہ بات مکمل کرے۔

    اس نے اپنی بات کا سلسلہ جاری رکھتے ہوئے کہا میں دعا مانگا کرتا ہوں کہ

    ’ اے میرے پروردگار، اے میرے رب! اگر تو سمجھتا ہے کہ میں نے تیرے ذکر ، تیرے قرآن کی تلاوت اور تیری بندگی سے اس مسجد کی وحشت و ویرانگی کو دور کیا ہے تو اس کے بدلے میں تو میرے باپ کی قبر کی وحشت و ویرانگی کو دور فرما دے، کیونکہ تو ہی رحم و کرم کرنے والا ہے‘

    مجھے اپنے جسم میں ایک سنسناہٹ سی محسوس ہوئی، اپنے آپ پر قابو نہ رکھ سکا اور پھوٹ پھوٹ کر رو دیا۔

    پیارے دوست،

    کیا عجیب تھا یہ نوجوان، اور کیسی عجیب محبت تھی اسے والدین سے!

    کسطرح کی تربیت پائی تھی اس نے؟

    اور ہم کس طرح کی تربیت دے رہے ہیں اپنی اولاد کو؟

    ہم کتنے نا فرض شناس ہیں اپنے والدین کے چاہے وہ زندہ ہوں یا فوت شدہ؟

    بس اللہ سے دعا ہے کہ وہ ہمیں نیک اعمال کی توفیق دے اور ہمارا نیکی پر خاتمہ کرے، اللھم آمین

    ازراہ کرم! اگر آپ کو اس ای-میل کا موضوع اچھا لگا ہے تو اپنے ان احباب کو بھیج دیجیئے جن کا آپ چاہتے ہیں بھلا اور فائدہ ہو جائے۔

    مت بھولئے کہ نیکی کی ترغیب دلانے والے کو نیکی کرنے والے جتنا ثواب ملتا ہے۔

    کیا کبھی آپ میں سے کسی نے یہ سوچا ہے کہ موت کے بعد کیا ہوگا؟ جی ہاں موت کے بعد کیا ہوگا؟

    تنگ و تاریک گڑھا، گھٹا ٹوپ اندھیرا، وحشت و ویرانگی، سوال و جواب، سزا و جزا، اور پھر جنت یا دوزخ۔

    یا اللہ، پڑھنے والے کے دکھ درد اور پریشانیاں دور فرما دے، اور ہر اس شخص کی بھی جو وعظ و عبرت کیلئے اس کو دوسروں کو بھیجے۔
    آمین یا رب العالمین۔

    Posted 1 year ago on 04 Oct 2010 21:27 #
  27. shimatoree
    Member

    Anwer Kamal

    you might find it hard to accept but some of us cannot read Urdu.

    We would like to have the opportunity to benefit from what you have to say.

    Posted 1 year ago on 04 Oct 2010 22:49 #
  28. This mosque at Madina Az Zahra is in ruins too for the past several hundreds of years. That is a good place for the guy in the above hikayat.

    Posted 1 year ago on 04 Oct 2010 23:04 #
  29. Anwer Kamal
    Member

    @shimatoree
    I knew that and I am sorry for that.
    It is hard for me to write that in Roman, However tomorrow I will try that and more hard for me to translate into English due to my poor English, Note that I am 58 years old and here on net only to pass my time of my duty at night with my sick son. (7th year)

    Posted 1 year ago on 05 Oct 2010 0:33 #
  30. Abdul Rahman
    Member

    http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/94840

    Discussing slavery and asking questions about it on the part of those who promote Christianity and try to divert people from following the religion of Islam is something that annoys the wise person and makes him point the finger of accusation towards the ulterior motives that lie behind these questions.

    That is because slavery is well established in Judaism and Christianity, where it has taken unjust forms. They have many books which discuss that in detail and condone it. Therefore it makes you wonder: how can these churchmen call people to Christianity when Christianity condones and legitimizes slavery?

    In other words: how can they stir up an issue when they themselves are up to their necks in it?!

    The issue of slavery is completely different when discussed from the angles of Christianity and Islam, and when compared with the situation that prevailed at the advent of Islam.

    Hence we must discuss this topic in some detail with reference to what is said in Judaism, Christianity and contemporary culture on this matter, then we will speak of slavery in Islam.

    Many lies have been fabricated about Islam on this topic, at a time when criminals with lengthy track records are safe and nobody points a finger at them.

    Posted 1 year ago on 05 Oct 2010 0:47 #
  31. shimatoree
    Member

    Anwer Kamal

    I am sorry for the trouble but I cannot even read Roman Urdu. So do not worry about it.

    And about age- well I am 66 years so much for that.

    Posted 1 year ago on 05 Oct 2010 1:59 #
  32. Anwer Kamal
    Member

    @shimatoree
    Perhaps living somewhere else.
    Jawad Pasha Pakistan | Facebook

    Posted 1 year ago on 05 Oct 2010 2:10 #
  33. NNL
    member

    Shimatoree

    Islam Allowed Slavery and Didnt Abolish it immediately.

    Deal with it

    IF you cant and have issues regarding there are people who can arrange for you a meeting with Allah Azza Wa Jal and also provide you with a phone so that you can let us know about it.

    Wanna try it.

    Posted 1 year ago on 05 Oct 2010 4:24 #
  34. toamin
    member

    I agree with Change is Close & NNL.

    Islam didn't outrightly forbid slavery and as I muslim I accept the hukm of Allah & His Messenger because I rationally came to conclusion that Allah SWT is the Creator and Muhammad PBUH is His messenger and Qur'an is Allah SWT's book revealed to Muhammad PBUH.

    So why Allah didn't do something, I don't know unless Allah swt tells me the reason I can't imagine. Also people can make all sorts of guesses/defenses to justify reason of Allah but that would be mere guess.

    Like Allah swt says, you don't like something but it is good for you, that means our logic says it is bad but Allah swt says it is good, similarly something human logic says good (Riba) but Allah swt forbids from it.

    Bottom line =if you believe in Allah swt then accept/submit completely, don't believe in one part while reject other part.

    Posted 1 year ago on 05 Oct 2010 5:53 #
  35. change is close, above you made a few statements addressed to me. I thought best not to reply. But then today's another day. Strength ebbs and flows, returns on a daily basis.

    C-i-C, Of course God knows and I don't know. That goes absolutely without saying. Of course Allah is Just. But then tell me of one vision of God among the monotheistic steps to the Divine where Injustice is put forward as a characteristic of God? Saying God is Just is not adding anything to our faith. It's like saying God is Divine.

    As for the blind, unblinking obedience you argued for in an earlier posting, I have a question there, too. Okay, I'm willing to accept your advice to forget rationality. The rational never got us any closer to the Divine. Quite agree. But the haunting question remains: where is the role of free will in all this. Muslims tend to stress the fact that Allah's will and command are supreme, but we His creatures are also endowed with free will, hence a choice. With the best will in the world, I cannot square all this in my smallest of brains. There is a mystery here which yet remains to be approached by our theologians, scholars, etc.

    And now to our contradictions: Right, women are inferior to men. But this is only one very small portion of the Holy Quran. Can you tell me why each group of believers just clings on to one aspect of the message of Islam and ignores all the rest? Or so at least is the impresson I have gained from seeing the various groups is action. How is it that ritual always comes in first place and the rest of Islam (absolute honesty in our dealings, our duties to the downtrodden, equality, austerity, etc.) are left in a state of overgrown neglect?

    And last but not least, C-i-C, recently on another thread you spoke to us about how Muslims should be on their guard with Jews and Christians. Then tell me how come, Muslims the world over have chosen to bow to these very people? Pakistan, for instance, is best friends with Christian States and the richest of our Arab countries are not only firm allies of the Christians, they also happen to be supporters of the Jews of Israel?

    Do you really think any of all this is pleasing in the eyes of our Creator and our beloved Prophet (PBUH)?

    Salam, one comment to you: Who says our human logic says Riba is good. Never in all my born days have I thought Riba was anything except daylight robbery imposed upon the world by that now dying system known as capitalism.

    Posted 1 year ago on 05 Oct 2010 7:38 #
  36. toamin
    member

    dear mirza ghalib,

    i am sure you consider riba evil, but are there people who consider it beneficial? sure, there are, whole world order is structured around that principle of riba-

    regarding what is ruling of Islam on slavery, bottom line is, it is not haram, why is it not haram? we have to check the sources to see if we find any reason or else it could be one man's guess vs another man's guess.

    if a person asks ruling of islam on some subject we refer back to the sources/text to seek the opinion and give the ruling -as simple as that-

    laws or regulations on slavery, or how islam helps/encourages to terminate slavery, or rights of slaves etc is another debate, but still pertains to sharia text, not human mind, logic or perception.

    so i could say, hey God made a mistake (nauzubillah) i don't accept this ruling, then that would mean i am no more a muslim-

    Posted 1 year ago on 05 Oct 2010 8:08 #
  37. Salam, thanks for reply. Of course, the whole world order is structured roung the notion of riba. But then see into whose hands that "world order" has fallen? Riba is condemned by the Christians and in very strong terms at that. Even the Jews forbid it amongst themselves. But for the rest of the world, the goyim (=cattle), it's fair game. What I managed to see at a very young age, others could have seen as well if only their attention hadn't been taken up by other worldly matters. What I was objecting to, and only in passing at that, was the use of the words "human logic".

    About slavery, I have no special views or "perceptions". The thread was launched and I simply gave a sample of Iqbal's views on the matter. As for who qualifies as a Muslim and who doesn't, that would be another long and arduous discussion. I doubt there is any power on earth which can decide in place of Allah who should be termed a true believer and who not. Only on that Day of Last Judgement will that truth come forth.

    Posted 1 year ago on 05 Oct 2010 8:43 #
  38. Revivalist
    member

    "The act of 1807 outlawed the slave trade but not slavery. Slavery was made illegal in 1834. But it continued in all but name: former slaves were hired by their former owners in slave-like ‘apprenticeships’. The vacuum created by emancipated slaves eventually led to the need to identify a new labour force. The replacement came in the shape of two and half million Indians who were ‘indentured’ – contracted to work on plantations – but who were treated no better than slaves were. Indentured emigration went on until 1917, demonstrating that slavery certainly wasn’t over when we are led to believe it was.

    Today, the NGO ‘Free the Slaves’ believes that we have the largest number of people that has ever been in slavery at any point in world history and are being paid the lowest price that there has ever been for a slave in raw labour terms."

    Posted 1 year ago on 05 Oct 2010 8:50 #
  39. toamin
    member

    dear mirza ghalib,

    'human logic' is the point here, we are making 'human logic' as yard stick and then measure everything else according to this 'human logic', which means we make 'human logic' supreme idea-

    this philosophy of 'human logic' takes us back to the debate of basic definitions of good/bad, just/unjust, we have to define these first with respect to some 'ground' and only then we can move forward to use that as 'yard stick' to measure other subjects

    please do not take my above reference of rejecting Allah SWT book as label game, i am no one to call anyone believer or non-believer, but i can differentiate between actions and can pass judgement on actions only-

    Posted 1 year ago on 05 Oct 2010 8:52 #
  40. Thanks Salam. That was good. I mean the way you clarified what you'd meant by "human logic" and using it as a yardstick to fashion our own behaviour. I quite failed to see that aspect of things in my own reading of your post.

    Your last para: I wasn't speaking of you specially there, let's say. Rather I was addressing one of our major problems: Doing God's work of judgement in His stead. It's just a bad habit we Muslims have got into, accusing one another of not taking our Deen seriously and to the letter therby disqualifying ourselves as full-fledged members of the Ummah. A backlash of our growing fondness for sectarian rivalries.

    Rivivalist, your post on slavery past and present was highly interesting. I learnt new things from it. Thanks.

    Posted 1 year ago on 05 Oct 2010 9:09 #
  41. Revivalist
    member

    MG,

    Shukran!

    Posted 1 year ago on 05 Oct 2010 9:14 #
  42. shimatoree
    Member

    Let us suppose for a moment that Islam had in fact outlawed slavery lock stock and barrel.

    What would be the conditions in the Muslim world today.

    For starters- the wanton and legal economic exploitation of the poor Muslims under the guise of sanctioned economic system would be very difficult to justify and would in fact be illegal.
    Revivalist is correct in asserting the fact that though Slavery was outlawed in England but it was done in name only as the exploitation of poorer less powerful human beings has continued and is still continuing as of to day.
    If you have any doubts just go to Sindh and Southern Punjab and even Baluchistan.

    This is not an issue of the orientalists or by those that wish to defame Islam. This is a very profound problem of humanity and human rights.

    And it comes down to the selective use of morality that is practiced in the world including the Muslim World. Why the Muslim world is significant- because we claim to have a system that is for all times.

    So the sanction of Slavery as OK by Islamic law is what makes it OK today to economically exploit the poor and those that have no power.

    As to the argument that Slavery was not declared illegal by God and that we should just accept it-

    Well God has given free will to us and we are to be held accountable for our actions in this world.

    If that is the case and it certainly is- then I raise my question of Slavery all over again.
    What is the purpose ?
    To explore the human cost of slavery over eons or does that not matter?

    It is sort of like the question I had asked a Molana- after a child's murder.
    I asked what will happen to the killer. Death penalty I was told.
    I asked what about the suffering that the child was subjected to for 4 days.
    That book is closed I was told.

    The book of slavery is still open!

    Posted 1 year ago on 05 Oct 2010 12:48 #
  43. Revivalist
    member

    St,

    "So the sanction of Slavery as OK by Islamic law is what makes it OK today to economically exploit the poor and those that have no power". It’s indeed a very erroneous view of reality. The current economic exploitation is because of feudal system and democracy that allow feudals to secure their seat in the parliament and not because of Islam.

    Posted 1 year ago on 05 Oct 2010 13:03 #
  44. After reading shimatoree's post above, I can only say he's in the right of it.

    However, I wish to point out, too, that after Great Britain had finally legislated in the matter of slavery, that rotten institution continued under different names and is still going on down to the present.

    Had the Muslims turned abolition into a law, might it have made such a great difference today to the way we've come to treat the masses?

    Posted 1 year ago on 05 Oct 2010 13:11 #
  45. naseemkhanan
    Member

    Even before the dawn of Islam slavery was deep rooted in pagan Arabia. People became slaves because of their
    Unpaid debts
    Gambling
    Kidnapping
    Piracy
    Criminal actions
    Irresponsible parents
    Being descendant of slaves
    Prisoners of war
    Voluntary submission to be a slave due to acute poverty

    Some people question why God in the Quran did not prohibit slavery and instead commanded and rewarded the freeing of the slaves.
    God, The Almighty, knows that slavery is a social disease that will persist as long as humans are present on earth. If the order in the Quran is to prohibit slavery, it would be a noble command but since ONLY the believers in the Quran would be the ones following the Quran, the command would not help slavery outside Islam. Every Muslim would then free his slaves and remind the other Muslims not to have slaves anymore and their duty stop at that. The command in the Quran to FREE THE SLAVES, does not stop at the Muslims or Islam but extend to all the slaves wherever they are. A muslim would therefore free any slaves he might have had and after that turns to any other slaves in any location and of any religion to free, as commanded by God in the Quran. In other words, the command to free the slaves is far more reaching and far more effective than the mere order to stop having slaves.
    Van Denburg, a non-Muslim historian says, "Many regulations have been made by Islam, showing how noble was the feeling of the Prophet Muhammad and his followers towards slaves. In those regulations, we find that the merits of Islam are contrary to all the systems used until recently by nations, who claim to be most civilized and developed."
    Islam never became a force nor a party that promoted and condoned slavery. A balanced analysis of this issue would recognize the wisdom of Islam in managing the heinous practice of slavery and effectively putting an end to it.

    Posted 1 year ago on 05 Oct 2010 13:21 #
  46. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    Slavery is still existent in modern form or traditional form. Even in our country slavery is existent in the rural areas of Punjab, Sindh and Baluchistan.

    Posted 1 year ago on 05 Oct 2010 13:24 #
  47. shimatoree
    Member

    Revivalist-

    Your quote " The current economic exploitation is because of feudal system and democracy that allow feudals to secure their seat in the parliament and not because of Islam. "

    It is the mindset which allows that it is OK to have a slave.
    It is the mindset which says it is OK to give 1/2 of the inheritence to your daughter.

    It is the mindset which says women are Naqis Ul Aql

    And it is the mindset which says it is OK to have 4 wives and many more concubines!-( Slave girls).

    The wadera system is the result of a mindset which permits the notion that it is God who made someone poor and it is OK to have them work for peanuts.

    I go back to my supposition if Slavery was declared against the Sharia just like fornication was.
    Yes fornication has not stopped because of the criminal law against it and perhaps some would also have carried on with slavery- but they would have been far fewer and they would have to have been fearful of the sanctions of the society and the country.

    Islam came to create an egalitarian welfare state. Well once you allowed the Muslim soldiers to conquer the people in Iran and Syria- they could take the men and boys and sell them while keeping the women if they liked them.

    Let us not forget that the Saudis in modern times attacked Southern Iran, destroyed the tombs of Ali and Hussein- killed the men and boys and took the women and young children as slaves ! And they did it because they said slavery is allowed in Islam.

    Posted 1 year ago on 05 Oct 2010 13:35 #
  48. shimatoree
    Member

    Kalmago-

    Your quote " The Almighty, knows that slavery is a social disease that will persist as long as humans are present on earth. "

    Does that then mean the concept of free will is correct?

    Posted 1 year ago on 05 Oct 2010 13:37 #
  49. shimatoree
    Member

    KAalmago

    You said " muslim would therefore free any slaves he might have had and after that turns to any other slaves in any location and of any religion to free, as commanded by God in the Quran. In other words, the command to free the slaves is far more reaching and far more effective than the mere order to stop having slaves. "

    Could you please explain where does it say that.

    Posted 1 year ago on 05 Oct 2010 13:40 #
  50. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    Global economic slavery is one of the modern forms of slavery. Slavery has been existent in all times of world history and it is still existent in traditional, modern and invisible forms.

    Posted 1 year ago on 05 Oct 2010 13:44 #

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