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Islam is not in any danger...but Muslims are!

(64 posts)
  1. Islam is not in any danger…but Muslims are…immediate danger being Modernism!

    Muslims all over the world are facing an adversary in the form of MODERNISM that has colonized almost all civilizations except Islam. Christianity the first to resist desperately was the first to fall victim. The others simply followed blindly but Muslims are standing up till now as modernists are encountering stiff resistance from them.

    Modernism is re-modeling; a renewal according to the ideas of the twentieth century that professes manifold ideals, opinions, and tendencies. From time to time these tendencies work out into systems that are to renew the basis and superstructure of society, politics, philosophy, theology, of the Church and now of Islam in particular.

    Fundamentals of Islam the Quran and Sunnah are intact unlike other religions. Islam is self sufficient, comprehensive and all embracing, not tolerating eclecticism or will compromise with any faith in conflict with its principles telling us what to do and how to do unlike the extant teaching of numerous –isms that are mere fragmentary borrowings, restricted or limited in scope.

    When all what is said is true than the question comes up: why no Islamic leadership emerged from any of the Islamic States? The answers lie with the colonial forefathers of the current modernist regimes like Lord Cromer who in the end of his book ‘Modern Egypt’ states that Imperialistic England is willing to grant freedom to all its colonies provided a generation of brown slaves (politicians and intellectuals) educated by English system of education, are ready to take over but under no circumstances the British were willing to allow freedom to any as an Islamic State.

    A look at the current social structure of post colonial states (former colonies) will lead us to two distinct groups.

    The first are the same Modernists-Western educated elite, although a small fraction, are the remnants of their colonial masters determined to keep their countries on line with western values and systems and beliefs. Our senior politicians, bureaucrats and media backed intellectuals belong to this creed.

    The second belongs to a very large population of Muslim countries. They do not receive a modern education or face direct impact of western culture. Ullama-e-Din also belong to the same class. These people are mostly poor, generally illiterate and hold humble occupations. Most of them are good Muslims but because of their ignorance, regardless of their number are easily deceived as they also happen to be weak and disorganized.

    Hope can be the third and emerging group that by the grace of Allah (ST) belongs to the working class, are educated in the west being thoroughly exposed to the western culture. These are the torch bearers demonstrating their faith and love for Islam in their daily lives and readiness for self-sacrifice to implement their faith. This is the group that possesses the necessary intellect as a weapon to effectively resist the modernist penetration in the Islamic way of life. Such youth are really qualified for the future leadership of the Muslim world and not pretenders as seculars, liberals or modernists that are nothing but a class of opportunity driven hypocrite brown slaves

    Posted 2 years ago on 26 Sep 2009 12:52 #
  2. Asli Moulana
    Blocked

    Well written and thought provoking article tells a lot about the current situation of the Muslims and what they need to do with themselves instead of relying on someone else to do the work for them.

    Posted 2 years ago on 26 Sep 2009 13:08 #
  3. zjshami
    Member

    Almost 98% Muslims, throughout the World, love their religion, Islam, but have been confused to live according to Islam due to different interpretations of Quran.
    One activity is Islamic in Turkey but non-Islamic in Iran?
    One action is Islamic in Pakistan but non-Islamic in Saudi Arabia.
    Muslims Ulemas and Scholars have responsibility to pull a synthesis out of rapidly changing and evolving Modernism.
    This is called Ijtihad. (To cut and figure the cloth according to body structure)
    They are required to get united for drawing a line to end up the centuries old Tug of War in progress to establish Halal and Haram.
    Most of the modern innovations, inventions and requirements of human life could be Islamized what would help to make Musalmans more productive.
    aeeni nau se darna, tarzi kuhan pe ardna
    manzil yehi kathan hai qommon ki zingadi mein

    Posted 2 years ago on 26 Sep 2009 13:48 #
  4. I don't think I should agree with you, as your argument falls short of what I have emphasized.

    Posted 2 years ago on 26 Sep 2009 14:00 #
  5. zjshami
    Member

    I guess I failed to make you understand where I tried to support your point of view that Islam is not in danger but the Muslims.
    I don't believe that acceptance of modernism with modesty could bring any harm to the fundamentals of Islam.
    It would be a total denial of Ijtehad.

    First we need to define the limits and modes of Modernism.
    Negative immoral activities, colonialism and nudity cannot be bracketed with modern education, technology, research and innovations.
    Muslims are in danger due to lack of education in the modern fields.

    Posted 2 years ago on 26 Sep 2009 14:33 #
  6. usman1423
    member

    agreed Islam is not in danger.
    Muslims are in danger due to the lack of real islamic leadership and the islamic system.

    Posted 2 years ago on 26 Sep 2009 17:19 #
  7. shriq
    Member

    Allah (SWT) states in Quran:

    INNA NAHNU NAZZALNAZZIKR WA INNA LAHU LAHAFIZOON.

    We have revealed the advice and we WILL protect it.

    God has taken the responsibility on Himself to protect Islam, so dont worry about it.

    Muslims on the other hand are the ones target of so many attacks. These come in so many forms and colors. Modernism is one type of attack, many muslims are falling prey to it. They think that they are the illuminated ones but actually away from the right path. These modern muslims should understand(elite or from other classes) that there is no reason to be on defensive when it comes to religion. Our religion is not against the basic human rights, does not call to kill every non-muslim.....

    The need is to allocate some time from their busy schedules to go through the basic source of Islamic teachings sincerely. My request to this part of our religious society is, "Do not see Islam through the lens of the western "scholars". Check it yourself, you would be amazed to see its beauty and hopefully relieved that you are NAAM LEVA of a good way of life."

    Posted 2 years ago on 26 Sep 2009 18:05 #
  8. Anonymous

    Our Islamic political parties always remain worried that, according to them, America and West is waging a war against Islam knowing that God has taken the responsibility on Himself to protect Islam.

    So, why the said parties frequently express their worries on every forum? Don't they have trust in God?

    Posted 2 years ago on 26 Sep 2009 19:33 #
  9. NNL
    member

    To the Person who attempted to Translate the Ayah of the Quran.

    Are you SURE THAT WHAT YOU HAVE PARAPHRASED IS THE RIGHT VERSION

    I think the ayah which you have quoted is from Surah Hajar Ayah 9

    إِنَّا نَحْنُ نَزَّلْنَا الذِّكْرَ وَإِنَّا لَهُ لَحَافِظُونَ ﴿٩﴾

    Verily We: It is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e. the Quran) and surely, We will guard it (from corruption). (9)
    Translation of Hilali & Khan.

    Its not Islam thats protected its the Quran thats protected. Protection of Islam is for the Muslims to do. Akhi i think you might have meant the Quran.

    Apologies for any harsh words.

    To rest of the folks who have commented on Islam being Protected well bring something which remotely is better than Islam and then we will can argue about it till then sod off.

    Posted 2 years ago on 26 Sep 2009 21:38 #
  10. NNL
    member

    Darn Good Article by Mirza Sahib

    Zahami sahib
    what do you take to be the meaning of Ijetihad ?

    Posted 2 years ago on 26 Sep 2009 21:39 #
  11. zjshami
    Member

    I don't know the correct and real meanings of Ijtehad.
    I would be glad to learn more about Ijtehad from the real scholars on Islam.

    Posted 2 years ago on 26 Sep 2009 23:52 #
  12. zia m
    Member

    Just a few hundred years back the Christians opposed the scientific view that earth is round and it is not the center of solar system.They have learnt from the past mistakes nowadays even the Catholic Church accepts the Evolution as a fact.Muslims on the otherhand are regressing to the dark ages of Christianity.
    We don't have to adopt the western way of life but to deny the science and deprive Muslims from progress is simply a crime in my opinion.
    Of course,the global corporations will try to impose the western culture and ideology on us but it is upto us to be able to differentiate.
    If we keep rejecting science in the name of modernism,we will be the obvious losers.The rest of the world could careless.
    The moderates need to speak up against the fundamentalists.

    Posted 2 years ago on 27 Sep 2009 1:34 #
  13. zjshami
    Member

    Very well worded opinion by zia m.
    I am glad still there are some wise members like zia m, at the Forum who preach sense and reality but not emotionalism.

    Posted 2 years ago on 27 Sep 2009 1:41 #
  14. rocketrevolt
    Blocked

    The funny thing is that Bhangis are comparing european christdom with muslims thinking while in addition to ignoring the ~600 yrs era of muslims in spain;the centre of scientific and free thinking, they also ignore that muslims still think with the same principles and were never rejecting the scientific logic unless its in itself flawed. But its not the Muslims that are controlling the powers to allocate fundings for scientific research,Laws to govern,the power to make decisions,its their Bhangi administrators and their Bhangi Administrators take order from their masters.Hence no research in Muslim countries.Which means that it boils down to the simple fact that Bhangi rulers are the culprits not the religion.Is that so difficult to comprehend for a Bhangi brain? Lets debate on how much efforts common Muslim scientists are putting to make things happen and how they are being failed.Lets debate how bhangis make life a living hell for Muslim scientists who want to work and are not being supported by those Bhangis rather are being harassed cause of the ignorance of those Bhangis.Its not the Mullahs or religion or the ordinary Muslims that have those powers;the power to control fund,the power to control laws,the power to control legislature,the power to administer and rule.So who's is the real culprit?

    Another funny thing is that Bhangis follow the european mantra of criticizing religion cause it was european problem and try to impose their second hand mind set unto muslims that didnt go through that stage in the first place that europeans had gone through.That just shows the infertility of the Bhangi brain and it proves that Bhangi brain is incapable of thinking independently or freely but only under the influence of Bhang they drank by the direct orders from Europeans.

    'Once a slave could always be a slave'
    Dr. crocodile
    Honorary Ph.D,
    Crocodile Institute of Technology

    ps.That message was for the two posters above me.

    Posted 2 years ago on 27 Sep 2009 3:43 #
  15. zjshami
    Member

    The Muslims will stay in danger unless they struggle to change their position from slave to master.
    Which one would survive?
    Watermelon or knife?

    Posted 2 years ago on 27 Sep 2009 4:32 #
  16. rocketrevolt
    Blocked

    "Watermelon or knife?"

    watermelon being muslims? Which muslims? muslim Scientist? or that watermelon is being used for Islam?

    :)

    Posted 2 years ago on 27 Sep 2009 4:43 #
  17. amin1924
    member

    crocodile,

    Well said, that is a nice post.

    These fellows can't rebut that comprehensive thought.

    Posted 2 years ago on 27 Sep 2009 4:48 #
  18. zia m
    Member

    Can't think of any scientific achievement by Muslims for the past 800 years.
    I guess Bhangis have been incharge for too long.
    In last 100 years Jews won 180 Nobel prizes vs 3 by 1.5 billion Muslims.
    We have no shame.

    Posted 2 years ago on 27 Sep 2009 5:06 #
  19. amin1924
    member

    So we become jews and then win nobel prizes?

    Posted 2 years ago on 27 Sep 2009 5:11 #
  20. @all
    Offtopic posts will be removed.
    semirza

    Posted 2 years ago on 27 Sep 2009 5:11 #
  21. amin1924
    member

    Author says:

    Hope can be the third and emerging group that by the grace of Allah (ST) belongs to the working class, are educated in the west being thoroughly exposed to the western culture.

    Sure, this class is not fooled by masks worn by the believers of modernity.

    Posted 2 years ago on 27 Sep 2009 5:15 #
  22. Modernist is the one who is a real danger to Muslims. This pest has many faces and claims to be a Muslim while he/she is not. To stay clear of them you have to identify them first.

    Posted 2 years ago on 27 Sep 2009 5:15 #
  23. rocketrevolt
    Blocked

    "Can't think of any scientific achievement by Muslims for the past 800 years."

    Already answered that in my post.The modern research in science requires huge machinery and it didnt start 800yrs ago(that again shows the Bhangi's lack of comprehension),it started quite recently(i would date it with the discovery of radioactive phenomenon or engine discovery (I call it discovery cause its the utilization of already created=invented 'metals'& 'hydrocarbons').Whats your background zia m? I am not gonna run away even if i lose.. so stay the course.

    "I guess Bhangis have been incharge for too long."

    Thats based on your false premises of 800yrs modern science which I have proven as wrong premises or assumption.Which means that its wrong to put it that way.But Bhangis did control it since the start of the modern scientific research that started with the industrial revolution in which times there were hardly any free muslim countries;except maybe Afghanistan or Iran.And under British occupation of India they didnt build a single high profile research facility for the same type of scientific research that was being carried out in Britain in whole of INDIA!Prove me wrong!!! The government college(universty) Lahore was established in 1864 to produce the gutter elites with false sense of having 'scientific knowledge'.The experimental Physics equipment were brought for the first time in 1954 to the affiliated research facility of GC(even before atomic energy commission was formed or atleast got hold of any experimental research equipment)!!!
    Lot more to discuss here!If you have guts...lets discuss!!

    "In last 100 years Jews won 180 Nobel prizes vs 3 by 1.5 billion Muslims."

    First of all its a political prize so its not given much importance even by the Swedish professorS that I have met.Again the modern scientific research requires huge infrastructure which requires money which again is performed through government allocated funds.Now whos allocating those funds?The days of doin' scientific research with just nuts and bolts are over!!

    :)

    ps.on a fun note,Crocodile Institute of Technology also gives Prizes and you might have just earned the Bhangi Prize!
    You dont need to be ashamed of it.Be proud of it if you qualify!!!

    Posted 2 years ago on 27 Sep 2009 5:25 #
  24. amin1924
    member

    Impressive!

    Posted 2 years ago on 27 Sep 2009 5:30 #
  25. amin1924
    member

    I guess believers of modernity ran away.

    Posted 2 years ago on 27 Sep 2009 6:21 #
  26. Revivalist
    member

    These modernist always fail to understand a simple point that Islam as an Ideology and its history is testimony to the fact that Muslims for centuries were the leading in all filed. Their example of "800 years" is self conflicting; if Muslims are fail to do any scientific discovery in the last 800 years that mean all the inventions were done in the initial few hundred years!! Besides, one of their fatal mistakes is that they want to copy past the European historical experience upon the Muslim world and are equating Christianity with Islam, which is utterly erroneous.

    Posted 2 years ago on 27 Sep 2009 6:56 #
  27. rocketrevolt
    Blocked

    Now thats enough I have waited over three hours and have numerous times page refreshings...no reply!

    I would count down 10,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1 .....and the prize goes to zia m...!!!!

    Congrats!! Now you are a Certified Bhangi!!!!
    with official seal of Crocodile Institute of technology!

    Posted 2 years ago on 27 Sep 2009 8:48 #
  28. Anonymous

    JJ Khan

    What impressed you above........................

    Posted 2 years ago on 27 Sep 2009 11:22 #
  29. zjshami
    Member

    1. It is for the first time to witness an anti-modernist attitude, only at this forum.
    2. Is there any member at the Forum who prefers to wear the same dress, he/she used to wear in elementary school?
    3. Is there any member at the forum who uses nipple-bottle to drink milk?
    4. I am sure all of the anti-modernists would be living a modern life with modern facilities in a modern neighborhood.

    Posted 2 years ago on 27 Sep 2009 11:40 #
  30. amin1924
    member

    Modernity has its precise definition. So far I have seen that people calling for ijtehad and modernity don't even understand these two terms!

    Posted 2 years ago on 27 Sep 2009 11:44 #
  31. Mirza Sahib:

    I will try to reply to your original post only.

    It has already been pointed out by croc, but its not correct to compare what happened to Christianity and what is currently happening to Islam. Christinaity is still the number one religion of the world.Catholicism on the other hand is directly comparable.Catholicism is abound with deliberate movements to create systems that keep the truth about Jesus and his message, methodology of prayer and the Trinity away from the people.

    We are heading towards the same fate as the Catholics. Marginalized, misunderstood, malligned by accusations due to mis-trust by educated and uneducated alike.

    I would like to focus on the educated. Today, we are in an era governed by Western advancements in academia and science/technology. It is a fact the Muslim population, if taken as a whole, is in no state to compete until our own weaknesses are addressed.

    Mirza Sahib, much of what you write is indeed the case, from a socio-political perspective. If I may, we can add to this with a theo-historical perspective to better understand what has happened to religions in the past in the attempt at avoiding much the same occurring to our own.

    One last comment: If Islam is not in danger, then neither are the Muslims. Islam and the Muslims are one and the same. We need to understand this in our hearts and realize the 'isms' are not the threat.... we ourselves are the threat.

    Posted 2 years ago on 27 Sep 2009 15:23 #
  32. Mirza Sahib:

    I would like to understand your thoughts behind what you write in the 2nd paragraph of your original post. Would like to discuss upon this, without making any incorrect assumptions before-hand. (by the way dialogue will be the aim here, rather than debate)

    Posted 2 years ago on 27 Sep 2009 15:36 #
  33. Migel9
    Member

    The greatest SIN in islam is IGNORANCE..Islam is Allah deen,
    it is going stay on this planet earth till the day of judgement.This is a gift is from almighty to mankind.

    We the muslims have becaome ritualistic on our practice of
    Islam. What we need is go back the basics,justice unity,faith and trust in ALLAH and his Rasool.

    But we replaced Allah with america and her deputies the demonic capitalistic blood suckers zionist cabal of terrorist.
    Both the Noble Quran and the Bible claim that GOD Almighty is an Absolute One and only One:

    "Say: He is God, the One and Only; God, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him. (The Noble Quran, 112:1-4)"

    "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one. (From the NIV Bible, Deuteronomy 6:4)"

    "The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. (From the NIV Bible, Mark 12:29)"

    O..Notice also how Jesus said "our God", which included him to be under GOD Almighty's creation and Divine Authority, and not someone or an entity that is equal to GOD Almighty.

    Trinitarian Christians often refer to trinity as the "Holy Trinity". A very powerful statement indeed for a satanic word that doesn't even exist, not even once, in the Bible!!

    Trinity is a lie period.O..For you..

    Posted 2 years ago on 27 Sep 2009 15:38 #
  34. Thanks Migel..... you and I would have had a hell of a time debating this fact to my theology teachers at school! But you knew I was making just this point as you read my post above... right? :-)

    Posted 2 years ago on 27 Sep 2009 15:46 #
  35. amin1924
    member

    It would be not fair to equate catholicism with islam. This equation emanating from philosophy of modernity is flawed.

    Posted 2 years ago on 27 Sep 2009 15:48 #
  36. JJ:

    Please explain your statement. The comparison between the two religions has nothing to do with modernity. I am coming from a theo-historical perspective. Where are you coming from?

    Posted 2 years ago on 27 Sep 2009 15:51 #
  37. amin1924
    member

    I'll deliberate on one point, basic one only to keep it short.

    Catholicism is based on divinity of it's leader. Leader can not be challenged on his policy/ruling because he has divine role.

    Where as in Islam the representative call him caliph or imam can only interpret/deduce legislation from the text and even a common woman can stand up and challenge his ruling based on stronger evidence. There is especial court system to decide if any dispute arises.

    That is one fundamental difference.

    Posted 2 years ago on 27 Sep 2009 15:55 #
  38. Migel9
    Member

    O..Theology teachers,refer them to the great SHAIKH AHMED DEDAAT.Believe me in five seconds you will hear them say'UNCLE"..

    The force is with you always..

    Posted 2 years ago on 27 Sep 2009 15:55 #
  39. amin1924
    member

    Further to my above post:

    Oh yes, the comparison if agreed upon by default will lead to common ground for application of modernity!

    Posted 2 years ago on 27 Sep 2009 15:58 #
  40. Migel:

    lol, no I meant at school, it was a Catholic school, I would have been around 9yrs and the only Asian and Muslim in the school. Sheikh Deedat entered my conscious mind 11yrs after endless debates with the Priests and Nuns.

    Posted 2 years ago on 27 Sep 2009 16:04 #
  41. JJ:

    I am not trying to apply modernity. I am commenting on the demise of Catholicism due to its inability to understand the world in which it was attempting to guide its followers.

    Posted 2 years ago on 27 Sep 2009 16:09 #
  42. amin1924
    member

    Right, I understand.

    I was only suggesting where that inference could end up.

    Posted 2 years ago on 27 Sep 2009 16:15 #
  43. NNL
    member

    Oriel Behen.

    It would be quite unfair to Islam if one tries to compare it with Catholicism or even Christianity for that matter.

    For one very obvious reason.
    Christianity today would not have been possible if they didnt have the Nicene Creed. For if it werent for an Idolater Emperor Constantine and Arius ( a Libyan Preacher who started it all by claiming that Jesus was created by God thus less then God challenging the concept of Trinity)

    Islam Alhamduillah doesnt have such trivial issues as where and how of important things. They have been perserved as they were originally intended.

    The problem lies with the Muslims that they have failed to understand their own Deen and have kept it aside as a matter of rare interest.

    Like how many of us do actually know what we recite during our prayers.

    Forget that.

    How many of us do actually pray the obligatory 5 prayers everyday without gaps.

    It shocks most Muslims when they learn that all the Sahabas and Early Scholars didnt consider a person Muslim if that person was not praying 5 times a day and they equated him to being nearing kufr.

    The problem is amongst Muslims and to be honest we are running out of excuses to blame others. We are the ones who arent following the Commands of Allah Subhanhu Wa Taala.

    Posted 2 years ago on 27 Sep 2009 16:22 #
  44. No problem JJ.

    But you know, if we were to put the differences of Aqeeda to one side, Catholics and Muslims are very much similar in struggle towards taqwa, nearness to God via Ibaadat, focus on haquq-ul-abaad during life-time, rewards in the after-life etc.

    Posted 2 years ago on 27 Sep 2009 16:26 #
  45. amin1924
    member

    Agreed, there are many similarities that is why they have especial status of ahley-kitab.

    But to equate catholicism with islam in order to identify the reasons why these failed in response to protestant revolution is not fair. And that is a different discussion all together.

    Posted 2 years ago on 27 Sep 2009 16:30 #
  46. NNL:

    Bro Salaam after a long while!

    Agreed with all after the 2nd paragraph (ie. have no contention with your thoughts on Muslims)

    We are also in agreement that the Christian hierarchy formulated the Nicene Creed elevating Jesus from the Prophet that he was and was stated as such in the ancient Arameic texts, to a position equal to God and simultaneously the son of god, ie. to a position of divinity.

    It would be great to get into a discussion about the fallacies of Christian doctrine, but that would a) be something we already know and b) a complete parabolaic tanget from this thread. Either way, there is no arguement between us.

    Posted 2 years ago on 27 Sep 2009 16:44 #
  47. NNL
    member

    If you guys have the time then do go over the Arianism and its philosophy you will it to be more closer to what Hazrat Issa alahisallam was given as a message to spread. And might understand what the inference of which of the followers of Jesus would have Allah Appreciated more than others.

    Posted 2 years ago on 27 Sep 2009 16:48 #
  48. NNL
    member

    walaikum Masalam.

    Sister.

    Yes after a long time.

    Yes we can get our families and friends to be more receptive and appreciative in learning the Quran and Arabic so as to know what Allah Subhanhu Wa Taala has said to us then believe you me it would be a lot easier for us to be true Muslims.

    Posted 2 years ago on 27 Sep 2009 16:51 #
  49. :-) today has been a good day on this site!

    Posted 2 years ago on 27 Sep 2009 16:52 #
  50. NNL
    member

    I just wish that every Muslim and especially Pakistani Muslims learn Arabic and understand Quran instead of going to the Mulla of every little thing we would be saved from a lot of crap thats being hurled at us.

    Posted 2 years ago on 27 Sep 2009 16:54 #

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