If we revert back a bit in history, we may recall that this crisis of Modernism that Muslims are facing right now is not new to us. It happened when the Greek Humanism and Rationalism was being propagated by Mu’tazilites such as Ibn-e Sina, Ibn-e Rushd, Al Farabi and Al Kindi who tried to introduce a modern version of Islam just what the modernist is doing now. We need people of the caliber of Ghazzali to curb this vicious onslaught of intellectual dishonesty on Muslim beliefs.
PKPolitics Discuss » Current Issues
Islam is not in any danger...but Muslims are!
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Posted 2 years ago on 27 Sep 2009 16:54 #
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NNL
memberYes so true Mirza Sahib
You just took the words out of my mouth.
And also the Asharites. One also needs to understand their impact on the Original Sufism and then abuse of Ibn Arabi of it.
One would really understand why we are as we are.
Posted 2 years ago on 27 Sep 2009 16:56 # -
Muslims scholars hold a view that the church lost its influence because of irrationality among its views of the original sin, incarnation, trinity or priesthood. The church did face secular humanism and atheist materialism that was later on followed by the French Revolution.
The church committed a blunder of depending more on hearsay resorting to negative measures such as burning of books or keeping them on prohibited index, poisoning its scholars, scientists and even burning them at stake accusing them of blasphemy, while on the other hand Muslims were never in conflict with scientific progress and there is no such record of similar acts in reaction as was done by the Christians.
The Christian infrastructure was more of strangulation of a commoner, as it wielded absolute power. I believe the revolution could be understood now.Posted 2 years ago on 27 Sep 2009 16:57 # -
NNL
memberIndeed a good day.
The faster and sooner we the Muslims esp Pakistani ones realize our faults the faster we can correct ourselves.
Posted 2 years ago on 27 Sep 2009 16:57 # -
If anyone would like some background knowledge on how Islamic philosophy was influenced by ancient greeks ~ (references made by Mirza Sahib and NNL above) ~ here is a copy of a lecture on the subject.
http://www.lssu.edu/faculty/jswedene/.../Islam_and_Greek_philosophy.doc
Posted 2 years ago on 27 Sep 2009 19:04 # -
I found out the above link will lead you to the University page with a message 'page not found', and not to the document itself.Anyhow I found through further search from the same page and here is the link. Hopefully it should work:
http://www.lssu.edu/faculty/jswedene/FULBRIGHT_FILES/Islam_and_Greek_philosophy.docPosted 2 years ago on 27 Sep 2009 19:39 # -
Migel9
MemberAfter the Muslims ruled Spain for 800 years, the ungrateful Christians eradicated the Islamic culture and converted Muslims to Christianity, the religion of fraud. Yet it was Islam that gave birth to knowledge. Yet we find Muslims suffering all over the world.
The historical contrast is that Muslims preserved the knowledge of ancient cultures, when the Christians destroyed the world’s greatest libraries, burning to ashes millions of precious books. The Islamic civilization was flourishing when Europe was trapped in Darkness, and it was Islam that gave birth to the world as we know it today. Muslims contributed to every field of knowledge, along with other non-Muslim contributions. The Noble Quran was the Inspiration for these Muslim inventors. Jesus is recorded to have said “I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now” (John 16:12) Jesus was predicting that God would perfect His Divine Law after his departure, and the Divine Laws were perfected by Muhammad, the Last Prophet (peace be upon him).
Islam told the Arabs to leave their corrupt practices by recognizing the existence of their Creator, by obeying the God Who built them and their world. It stated that recognizing the proper position of God in relation to man was a great advance in thinking. It claimed that God Himself is the Creator of the mind, and therefore is the ultimate source of all knowledge. Claiming that God is inseparable from man and this world, Islam negated the concept that God is a reserved Being sitting on His unreachable throne, His being actively and intimately connected with all the proceedings of this world. Thus, the Muslims felt that as God holds the keys to knowledge, man’s purpose was to open the doors of ignorance by spreading this knowledge. This led them to view the entire universe as a divine gift for them to study in developing moral and intellectual strength to the utmost. In searching for knowledge, Islam strongly demanded that man study the sciences, since science itself is thought of as a divinely established system. To them, if God is the Creator of the elements on which chemistry must rely, He is also the Constructor of the solar system which the astronomer beholds, as He is the builder of the human biological system whose mind intrigues the philosopher, and to whose physiology the physician responds.
This was the mentality of the early Muslim chemists and scientists whose work is to be presented here. It is miraculous that the mental giants of whom we will speak developed their skills with little resource except the inspiration derived from their beliefs.
Since the Muslims possess the Quran, a book which they regard as unaltered divine revelation, this text became their starting point. The Quran instructed them to seek knowledge in all fields. Thereby stimulated, the Muslims went directly to the earliest sources of knowledge. Masterpieces of Greek, Persian, Egyptian, Syrian, and Indian science were recovered, translated, and where relevant, assimilated. These resources were easily accessible to them as even the storehouse of Greek manuscripts was found in the Near East, not in Europe. True, there were some Greek writings to be found in Medieval Europe. But these lay covered in the dust of monasteries, the keepers of which were too ignorant to understand their meaning, or to propound their contents.
For O and her nuns..Lol
Posted 2 years ago on 27 Sep 2009 19:55 # -
And this is the link for:
After the Muslims ruled Spain for 800 years, the ungrateful Christians eradicated the Islamic culture and converted Muslims to Christianity............That you forgot?
http://www.answering-christianity.com/abdullah_smith/islam_is_ultimate_source.htm
Posted 2 years ago on 27 Sep 2009 20:06 # -
rocketrevolt
BlockedIslam is not in danger but muslims are + and muslims are in danger from these Bhangis first and foremost!!!!!!!!
:)
Posted 2 years ago on 27 Sep 2009 20:53 # -
zia m
MemberThe gates of ijtehad(interpretation) were closed in 12th century.
The Mutazilites believed in reason and logic.The Asharites were keen on Taqleed.Without the freethinkers,the likes of Ibn Sina and Ibn Rusd the Islamic Golden Age came to an end.
That was one of the contributing factors in Muslim decline.
Mongolian invasion and later colonization by the west were other major factors.
We can deny history but can't change it.
To meet the challenges of future,one should learn from the past, not live in it.Oriel,
The link you provided is not working.
Migel,
Stop plagiarising, you are not setting a good example for us to follow.Posted 2 years ago on 27 Sep 2009 21:21 # -
When Muslims do not adhere to Islamic teachings, it is commonly said:
“Tou iss mein Islam ka kia qasoor hai”
But I see it otherwise. When Muslims do not adhere to Islamic teachings, it adversely affects the name of Islam. That means, Muslims and Islam cannot be separated
Having said that, it seems true when we talk about the topic of this thread. Islam is there due to the existence of Muslims. If there is no Muslim in the world, there would not be any Islam there.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
Posted 2 years ago on 27 Sep 2009 22:08 # -
Asli Moulana
BlockedZia I would sincerely suggest reading the works of Ibn Rushd and others before commenting or labeling the works of Kalam people as ijtihad.
One shouldnt just comment on things after reading from Wiki. (smile)
Bebus.
Your question is a very interesting and thought provoking.
If there are no Muslims then would Islam Exist ?
A Muslim Scholar shall argue with you on that on the Basis that the Central Point of Islam is Allah and Allah Alone. Thus Islam isnt based on the presence of Muslims as the central figure is there thus Islam was there since the beginning of time and got its name after Muhammad's claim to Prophethood.
Another one would say that no Islam wouldnt exist in its apparent sense as Muslims are its only representatives and thus a lack of representation would be considered as ceasing to exist (in the literal sense however the metaphorical sense may validate Islam).
2 opposing views both valid and with proof. will find out more on the issue.
Posted 2 years ago on 27 Sep 2009 23:14 # -
@Semirza,
u r so right .
it is not islam but Muslims who are in danger just coz of left right center strikes from the rest of the world in the name of getting modern.Posted 2 years ago on 28 Sep 2009 9:59 # -
Beenai
Please don't mind if I ask you that are you not modern as compared to a lady of your status a hundred years ago?
Posted 2 years ago on 29 Sep 2009 18:31 #
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