It's time to talk to the Taliban.....

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It's time to talk to the Taliban.....

(34 posts)

KHAN_Sahib
Member

The Guardian, Saturday 7 November 2009

There is much evidence that the Taliban are less a fundamentalist religious group dedicated to sponsoring al-Qaida in international jihad and more an amalgam of groups seeking to fight foreign occupation and reassert the traditional dominance of the Pashtun group, which has largely been ceded to Tajiks and others, despite Karzai himself being a Pashtun (Brown will not walk away from fight but public support falters, November 6).

In this sense, Nato has helped to promote a civil war as well as resistance to what is seen by many Afghans as imperialist aggression, particularly by Britain, which has invaded Afghanistan three times.

Britain, the US and Nato should get out of Afghanistan and a negotiated settlement be sought involving regional powers and the Taliban, who may not prove dedicated to continuing to support al-Qaida's presence. This is the only way. Otherwise Nato will be forced to withdraw as Russia was only 20 years ago, after the death of 15,000 troops.

But terrorism cannot be properly fought by extra surveillance on the streets of Britain. The only way is to convince Muslims that the west is not against them. This must involve rapprochement with Iran and Syria, withdrawal from Iraq and above all a just settlement in Palestine. Then we might be getting somewhere

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/nov/07/afghanistan-karzai-nato-troop-withdrawal

Posted 2 years ago on 07 Nov 2009 1:17 #
KHAN_Sahib
Member

West is coming to a conclusion which many of us already reached... I want to see that when "Pakistani Nation" will also reach this conclusion. And being a slave of British and Americans, it will be interesting to see the U turn of our Intellectuals...It may be late but this will happen.

On other Hand NATO AND USA has realized that despite their modern arsenal, they just can't defeat this nation of Pukhtoons!

Posted 2 years ago on 07 Nov 2009 1:24 #
amin1924
member

Recent surveys and polls conducted by international/local organizations already show that people of Pakistan are against this war and never supported invasion of Afghanistan by imperial invaders.

There is no difference of opinion on this.

Posted 2 years ago on 07 Nov 2009 2:41 #
zia m
Member

Every fair minded person is against wars only right wingers clamour for their dominance.
We should always try to find a political solution.War should be the last resort after negotiations with the hard lines fail.

Posted 2 years ago on 07 Nov 2009 5:34 #
amin1924
member

We will talk/negotiate swiftly when our master let us do this. Until then they are all our enemy!

Posted 2 years ago on 07 Nov 2009 5:52 #
KHAN_Sahib
Member

Our mASTERS Won't let us negotiate but will wait for their own safe exit!
we will pay for their sins in Afghanistan and northern Pakistan!

Posted 2 years ago on 08 Nov 2009 4:16 #
amin1924
member

We will continue to pay until we get freedom/independence.

Posted 2 years ago on 08 Nov 2009 4:39 #
KHAN_Sahib
Member

I met few Pakistani businessmen few hours ago.... One said a beautiful thing...that we, Pakistani's are a dead nation and we wont be able to change anything but this time the movement for change will come from outside and not from within! And we all agree with him...

Posted 2 years ago on 08 Nov 2009 4:48 #
amin1924
member

We were nation as Muslim and voted for Pakistan, but later started fighting for ethnic rights, so yes as nation we are dead.

Now we are only bunch of ethnics and looking for small short term goals for our people.

Posted 2 years ago on 08 Nov 2009 4:59 #
KHAN_Sahib
Member

Its sad but true!

Posted 2 years ago on 08 Nov 2009 5:20 #
truepakistani
Member

Our recent past is evident that whenever, we opted talks with criminals,their got more organised and became more stronger.

Take the example of MQM in karachi.

Take the example of more terrorists activities in Swat and tribal areas after having talks.

Actually, taliban are Fitna and only solution is to kill them. You can not change their minds.

Posted 2 years ago on 08 Nov 2009 11:32 #
amin1924
member

Your solution is already in implementation for last 8 years but has that worked? No.

They were heroes and patriots but just a couple of years ago they became enemies, did you ever analyze why?

Posted 2 years ago on 08 Nov 2009 11:39 #
truepakistani
Member

they were made heroes in 80s by cia, isi, s.arabia, mossad etc. aginst paying $$$$$$$, weapons and training, at that time they were heroes of islam, mujahedin, etc. etc.

now, usa,isi, mosad saying this is terrorism so these so called accept the advise of their godfathers.

actually, they were paid criminals/militants/terrorists in 80s and even now they are terrorists being paid by foreigners.

it was aFitna in 80s and even now, it is FITNA,

Fitna is never stopped by negotiations, read the history, all Fitnas are crushed by force. no other way.

since last 8 years trying to crush this fitna, no matter even it takes 20/30 years, we should fight against this fitna elements including those who are supporting these terrorists and their foreign fathers.

Posted 2 years ago on 08 Nov 2009 12:48 #
amin1924
member

so when did they become fitna and why?

Posted 2 years ago on 08 Nov 2009 12:53 #
truepakistani
Member

afghan jehad drama was played to;

fight against USSR,

advised and funded by USA/Israel/s. arabia etc.

who benefited from this war? USA., our religous parties.

who loosed ? afghans & pakistan.

pakistan is target of bomb explosions, trade of weapons, trade of drugs, flood of refugees, becoming war zone, centre of warriors/terrorists, etc. etc. since last 35 years.

Afghan war since 1975 todate has ruined very foundations of pakistan.

afghan war has put pakistan economy on collapse due to being in war zone.

Pakistan has become so impotent that without foreign aid/loan can not survive even a weak.

shameful to all those who formulated afghan policy in late 70s till todate and all those who have been used like toilet tissue paper in this international game.

Posted 2 years ago on 08 Nov 2009 13:02 #
javedsheikh
Members

There are three kinds of Taliban.
1. Taliban by Choice
2. Taliban by Chance
3. Taliban by Force and Fear

The first category consists of dedicated, loyal, sincere and faithful to the Philosophy, as they understand.

The other two sections of Taliban could be motivated, educated and changed to a realistic, social, and political solution through negotiations.
Taliban by chance and Taliban by force could be convinced through diplomatic efforts, to get back to normal principles of civic life.

Posted 2 years ago on 08 Nov 2009 13:06 #
amin1924
member

I don't see any evidence/proof linked with your rhetorical statements.

How did religious parties benefit from this war how afghan/pakistan lost?

Didn't we earn billions of dollars and international support during these wars?

Posted 2 years ago on 08 Nov 2009 13:08 #
KHAN_Sahib
Member

@true pakistani...

You said "Our recent past is evident that whenever, we opted talks with criminals,their got more organised and became more stronger.
Take the example of MQM in karachi.
Take the example of more terrorists activities in Swat and tribal areas after having talks.
Actually, taliban are Fitna and only solution is to kill them. You can not change their minds"
..........................................................

Do you mind en-lighting us, that why MQM waley were not all killed but they have being incorporated in regional-national politics but Taliban have been side-lined and according to your "Wish" should be killed!
Even IRA (Irish Republic Army) which has been officially labelled "Terrorist" organization by UK and who has been involved (They claimed) in London and Omagh Bombing have been invited for table talks and now are part of the northern Ireland Peace process BUT when it comes to Taliban your MASTERS and people like you (Until now! as now the Masters have spoken about talks with taliban!!!)want to kill Millions of People (as compared to few thousands of IRA) who supports or work as Taliban????

Also, Could you tell me wat made u issue this statement that Taliban are FITNA???cuz Millions of People thinks that they are against the FITNA of westernization and ethnicity based politics? May be you can enlightens us and change our hearts!

Posted 2 years ago on 08 Nov 2009 13:16 #
truepakistani
Member

since our childhood, our parents used to warn us not to make any contact with pathan because they can give you some kind of anesthesia and bring you to tribal areas.

most of the criminals run to tribal areas to get hide out,

most of the car thieves go to tribal areas,

innocent childs disappeared in streats are mostly found in tribal areas,

bank robers fly to tribal areas,

etc. etc. etc.

tribal areas since long have been centre of criminals hide outs.

even foreign terrorists and arab government opponents got hide outs , safe heaven in tribal areas of pakistan.

since, decades no strong action is taken against these criminals having safe heaven in tribal areas.

most of trible people are illiterarte having centuries old social customs/values.

The people who have shifted to cities and got modern education, have changed themselves into better civilians.

The rest of people living in tribal areas are left open on the evils of madrisa culture who teach them their own version of islam using mosques, madrisa and beard.

People in tribal areas are seeing only so called jehadi mulla, criminals, car lifters and drug smugglers.

They are still living in stone ages.

Government of pakistan must take emergency steps to teach them modern education and to crush all criminals using that area as safe heaven.

Posted 2 years ago on 08 Nov 2009 13:20 #
KHAN_Sahib
Member

@JS...
Instead of classifying Taliban which I don't agree anyway! Could you actually comment on the thread? Now that US and UK wants to talk to the "Terrorist" Taliban... Whats your viewpoint? I think once a terrorist is always terrorist! Why bother talk? Just Kill them as true Pakistani suggested?
Or is this that the "Masters"have realized their fate in the form of another Vietnam and they now want "Billi ka Raasta"?

Posted 2 years ago on 08 Nov 2009 13:20 #
KHAN_Sahib
Member

True pakistani!

How dare u said this "Filth" about Pakhtoons! You ****! You and your brain washed upbringing who cries on all "Zulim" AGAINST YOUR KIND! but fail to see the cunning and racist part hiding inside your black, hate filled hearts!

YOU surely needs to grow up... I will refrain to comment about your parents but I do blame them for the brain-washed racist and bias up-bringing! Shame on u.

Posted 2 years ago on 08 Nov 2009 13:24 #
amin1924
member

TP,

So this is your childhood indoctrinations and paranoia coming out, I was mistaking it as political analysis -sorry.

Posted 2 years ago on 08 Nov 2009 13:24 #
KHAN_Sahib
Member

He must have some painful memories! I feel for Him!

Posted 2 years ago on 08 Nov 2009 13:25 #
amin1924
member

lolzz... I am glad that the cat came out sooner than I estimated and I am sure he is unaware of not only NWFP but also of Balochistan reality due to his childhood indoctrination & paranoia.

True Pakistan, stay away from PKPolitics site, there are many Pakhtoons here too. They will drug you and put you in a bag and sell you out in tribal area

lolzz

Posted 2 years ago on 08 Nov 2009 13:28 #
truepakistani
Member

listen, all pukhtoons are not terrorists,

all pukhtoons are not smugglers,

all pukhtoons are not drud edicted,

all pukhtoons are not stone agers,

all pukhtoons are not paid jehadees of americans/israel/india etc.

BUt, what I described is a fact. Try to understand what I mentioned in my expression.

Such type of criminals are also present in other parts of pakistan.

It does not mean all pukhtoons are criminals.

thse are criminals, not pukhtoons, not punjabees, not baloch, not muhajirs, just criminals.

do not take to your sect or sub nation.

criminal is criminal only.

Posted 2 years ago on 08 Nov 2009 13:39 #
javedsheikh
Members

Khan Sahib,
History guides that the process of negotiation is always initiated by the moderates out of two rivals.
Extremists on both sides still oppose any diplomatic solution.

As I mentioned earlier at another thread the final outcome of the war on Terrorism would be a Settlement among America, Pakistan and Afghanistan.
We will see a Moderate Section of Taliban would come forward to stage a Diplomatic and Honorable conclusion.
It might create a rift and division within Taliban, what is already emerging.

Posted 2 years ago on 08 Nov 2009 13:45 #
KHAN_Sahib
Member

Sheikh Sahib,

I see your point but why do we have to be on table with Taliban once we already decided that they are "Extremist" "Terrorist" "Islamist" or "FITNA" as some of our brothers think!

Why do we have to agree to our Master's Nod and have no courage to find the facts! If you remember that I was and still am against anyone who kills any civilians or any innocent human being. I have always opposed Taliban to engage in war within Pakistan but during my last few visits to Pakistan,I have come across, hundreds of people from swat and Waziristan and also I have met few "In service" men who works for ISI and Army on quite higher level. The overall story was that Taliban has never targeted any civilians in Pakistan and that govt was doing this operation for $$$$ only. There is No Taliban in Waziristan as all of them have moved across to Afghanistan or other areas of Pakistan (The clever people announced the Waziristan invasion weeks in advance) so army is not fighting Taliban's but bushes or killing common tribal men to match their statistics for Americans!

Just answer me a simple Question! These Taliban who managed to kick that red Russian butt out of Afghanistan and then defeated Northern Alliance alone and now have made UK AND US to come on table talks were so weak that our "Brave" Army were able to clear them out in few weeks??? Bravo! Then the Americans should hire Pak Army to fight for them on daily wages in Pakistan while their black water agents kills our civilians!

Posted 2 years ago on 08 Nov 2009 13:59 #
SufiSoul
Member

First of all their is a universal rule that {defeated} have no say on table talk..
Taliban already issued messages to neibour countries that we would remain as friends with countries accepted our govt,This message was from Mulla Umer somemonths bfore.
Iraqis remained stupid after a freedom fight by accepting the same democratic system,means americans will still have their say..
The agenda from Taliban is purely an Islamic state NOT democracy.
If they accepts democracy for example they will be the loosers their,after useless Jihad.
Their is no chance to let american's any symbol in afghanistan..
Thats why i said that this arrangement would be just temporary,purely according to Taliban agenda as americans have no other choice..
But within a limited time i can see another war between Muslims and non-muslims and will not be limited to just Afghanistan.
Al-Qaida global Jihad agenda is created not just for fun here BUT to tackle upcomming world war.
Many of the countries feel free to talk with Taliban but they are not ready to accept AlQaida global Jihad strategy..
Peace will still be a wish for long time UNLESS survival of the fittest proves at either side......

Posted 2 years ago on 08 Nov 2009 14:15 #
javedsheikh
Members

Khan Sahib,
You wrote:
" why do we have to be on table with Taliban once we already decided that they are "Extremist" "Terrorist" "Islamist" or "FITNA" as some of our brothers think!"

It is very simple to answer.
Why Muslim League, Indian National Congress decided to sit at the Round Table to patch up the Communal Dispute with their common enemy, the British Government?

Why Japan and America got friendly even after a deadly Nuclear Attack?

Here I put a verse from Sahir Ludhianvi,

woh afsana jise anjaam tak lana na hoo mumkin
usse ek khoobsoorat mord de kar choorna accha

This is called Diplomacy.
(According to respectable moderator, Beena, it is a Deal)

Posted 2 years ago on 08 Nov 2009 14:17 #
KHAN_Sahib
Member

There will be no PEACE in south east ASIA for a very very LONG time, specially the INDO-PAK and Afghanistan...

Posted 2 years ago on 08 Nov 2009 14:18 #
truepakistani
Member

red Russians were defeated once all Europe, Arabs, Americans all supported provided $$$$$$$$$, weapons and trainings.

Afghan could never defeat Russians alone.

now, Americans/NATO and other countries are occupying afghanistan since last 8 years.

Are afghan able to defeat them ? no.

Unless European and Americans themslves decide to quit afghanistan due to financial & political decissions, Taliban in Afghanistan can not defeat the foreign forces.

foreign forces from 15,000 k.m attacked and occupied afghanistan and Ammerulmomenin is hiding on motorcycle from one cave to other.

Is it Jehad?????????

when Russians defeated and quited afghanistan, americans were also not present in afghanistan in 90s. We all know, how militant/jehadi groups started fighting & killing each other.

rent a jehad culture must be stopped now.

If afghans can not safe guards their country, pakistan should not take responsibility of indulging in their internal wars.

We should not interfere in other's internal affairs, we should safe guard our country.

Posted 2 years ago on 08 Nov 2009 14:18 #
KHAN_Sahib
Member

JSSAHIB,

khoobsoorat mord YA incomplete Moar?

Posted 2 years ago on 08 Nov 2009 14:20 #
SufiSoul
Member

No one should think that Zardari is stupid for announcing war in Waziristan in advance,to let the Taliban shift to other areas.
BUT this was a courtesy message to Taliban also and satisfy americans..
Pakistan can never afford full fledge enemity with Taliban.
This will leave Pak Army shattered in Pakistan chasing Taliban.
On the other side India is Underground preparing for the Post-shattered Pak Army,attack over Pakistan.
Double game relating to Taliban with US is the main cause of punishment from US through India,to Pakistan..

Posted 2 years ago on 08 Nov 2009 14:20 #
KHAN_Sahib
Member

Don't Worry about INDIANS! Taliban can alone take care of them as Pak ARMY moved Talibans from their western border to their eastern border in last big border tension between the two countries! The Hypocrisy of Dirty Politics..

Posted 2 years ago on 08 Nov 2009 14:27 #