1lhr
Member
A massive explosion has rocked a Japanese nuclear power plant casuing radiation leaks. Huge pall of smoke coming from the plant at Fukushima and several workers were injured.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12720219
Qst: Now shouldnt Japan and any other countries eg US which are more volatile to natural disasters like tsunamis, hurricanes etc be banned from keeping nuclear arsenals to avoid a global catostrophe?
[rather than targeting countries like Pakistan]
A very good point you make, 1lhr. Japan's terrible tsunami and its effects will now re-open the nuclear debate with a vengeance.
About US, they too have at least two nuclear power plants built on very tsunami-prone points in California close to the Pacific Ocean, etc. And they are less good administrators than the Japanese.
Whether they'll get the message or not about the futility of their wars is quite a different matter. This week, Karzai has called upon them to end it and go home. And on the upcoming Thursday, US Congress is going to vote on finishing the Afghan War. Keep your fingers crossed, as they say.
Not only this is a very valid question that should be answered by nuclear powers. Free use of depleted Uranium in Iraq and Afghanistan should be exposed as an addition to this question.
Bravo! I didn't want to bring up the DU point again. Have done so repeatedly and no one has picked it up so far.
With each bullet they fire, DU released in the air. We are the first victims of this uranium pollution, Iraq, Afghanistan and their neighbours. But soon it will be airborne into every part of the world as well. We shall all pay the price. Nature has already been turned into a nuclear dump. That's why many of us do not hesitate to call the present wars a genocide. If this carries on, over-population will be a thing of the past.
d0ct0r
Member
Japan's Nuclear Crisis May Resonate in the U.S.
The crisis at the Fukushima and Daini nuclear plants in Japan comes at a sensitive time for an industry that’s been looking for new life in the United States. There’s been renewed interest in building nuclear plants – including from the Obama administration – given both oil prices and concerns about the environmental impacts of burning fossil fuels. But public safety concerns remain a strong element of the discussion.
Accidents matter: In 1988, two years after the Chernobyl disaster, just 30 percent of Americans in a Harris poll supported building more nuclear power plants in this country. That’d advanced to 52 percent in an ABC/Post poll in January last year (it was a similar 49 percent in a poll we did last June). And in March 2010 a Gallup poll found 62 percent support for the use of nuclear power in general (not specifically for building more plants), a high in its polling since 1994.
But compunctions have remained in place: In our January 2010 poll, while slightly more than half supported building nuclear plants in general, far fewer, 35 percent, said they’d support construction of a nuclear plant within 50 miles of their own home. And we noted sharp differences in views on nuclear power by political affiliation (lower among Democrats), age (lower among young adults) and sex (lower among women).
Support for renewable energy – e.g. wind and solar power – has been far higher and far less divisive. Whether nuclear power can regain a place at the table may well depend much on unfolding events, not here in the United States, but at the imperiled nuclear stations on the coast of northern Japan.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenumbers/2011/03/japans-nuclear-crisis-may-resonate-in-the-us.html
liv_2_die
Member
and we give prizes in this world established in the name (and by) a person who invented dynamite .. every single nuclear device should be abolished from the world along with weapons if we want to give a good future to our next generations (i know i m dreaming) .. a very valid question though that why are such plants built in fault lines and why not shift them to safer locations once this fact was known
1lhr
Member
nuclear poliferation is getting worst .....and with normal secrecy around 'superpowers' nuclear matters we perhaps only know a fraction of real damage
- 2nd blast at reactor no 1
- 3rd reactor effected as well
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12729138
@MG. "...and its effects will now re-open the nuclear debate with a vengeance"
i hope what you say is really followed up by those responsible, although i have serious doubts. considering there has really been 2 major nuclear catastrophes todate
1) US dropping the bombs on civilians in Japan
2) Chernobyl mismanagement/poliferation.
Yet it failed to stop the 'superpowers' unnecessary expansion of nuclear assets and thinking more responsibly towards the disasters.
Reletated comment here:
http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/89-earthquake-and-tsunami-has-hit-japan/page/2#post-218806
LATEST:
Fukiyama 3 Explosion:
Hydrogen explosion at stricken Japanese nuke plant
AP journalists felt the explosion 30 miles (50 kilometers) away:
And this is a surprise since there was no new earthquake:
Large new tsunami to hit Japan coast within minutes
A new three-metre (10 foot) high tsunami rolled toward the disaster-shattered northeast coast of Japan early Monday, with authorities warning it would strike within minutes
Breaking: Second Nuclear Reactor Explodes In Japan, White Smoke Rising From Another
Side Note:
USS Ronald Reagan Runs Into Radiation, Reactor 3 Explodes As Fear Mounts
Does any one know what this "MOX Fuel" is? Never heard of it before...
Related:
Official: 2 Japanese nuclear reactors may be in meltdown
(Here is something on MOX Fuel)
MOX FUEL confirmed in Plant #3 by Four Different Sources!
"In the meantime, there have been suggestions that an incident at reactor 3 would inherently be more dangerous than at reactors 1 and 2 because it burns “mixed oxide fuel” (MOX) containing plutonium.
Plutonium is produced during nuclear fission, so is present in all reactor cores – the longer the fuel has been there, the more plutonium will be present, up to about 1%.
In some countries, spent fuel rods are re-processed and the plutonium set to one side.
However, Japan – in an attempt to be more frugal with a valuable resource – has a programme that mixes the plutonium coming out of the re-processing facility back into new fuel rods that also contain uranium. This is MOX fuel."
For those who might not be aware, please DO KEEP IN MIND that Chernobyl is NOT something that happened in the PAST! Chernobyl ONLY STARTED 24 years ago....
^^^
BTW: Remember this is what they have been selling:
Nuclear power is true ‘green’ energy
The Canadian Nuclear FAQ: NUCLEAR ENERGY: THE GREEN ALTERNATIVE
1lhr
Member
i was reading in one of the papers today which had a map of other nuclear installations in japan (trying to find it on web). All of those (approx 16) seem to be on opposite side of japanese island where tsunami hit, but alongside ocean. imagining the nuclear after effects if tsunami/quake had hit that side first?
@nota
thanks for the useful links particularly chernobyl. if that started 24 years ago and perhaps after effects will last another (minimum) 24 years...... i dont want to imagine the after effects of japanese disaster (which is not over yet) lasting how long??.....and more importantly over what area? certainly will not be restricted to japan but may spread as far as US!
@1lhr
"and more importantly over what area?"
Oh, don't even talk about that...
"If Radioactive Material Gets Into The Jet Stream Then... We Share That With The World"
BTW: Some are saying the question IF we will have a meltdown or two -- they are saying the explosions WERE a RESULT of meltdowns...
Meltdown Caused Nuke Plant Explosion: Safety Body
(Those selling the "no meltdown yet" spin are admitting the cooling is breaking down...and no cooling leads -- VERY QUICKLY -- to meltdown)
Nota, I take it you know by now that MOX Fuel is simply another term for plutonium-powered.
1lhr, I've just seen an article which assures us that no way could the effects of exploding nuclear reactors in Japan reach US. But I've also read another which is categorical: the next big tsunami will hit the Californian coast.
@MG
Now I know :)
BTW: If it does reach America, should we really shed any tears? See this:
“The human toll here looks to be much worse than the economic toll, and we can be grateful for that.”
So says CNBC’s Larry Kudlow of the Japan earthquake. If you listen closely at the end, you can hear his co-anchor add, “This is good news for the US economy.”
1lhr
Member
@nota
perhaps this is what they meant/knew and hence used the word 'yet' after no meltdown!
Japan is the most secretive nation of all (bypassing US or N Korea may be) so i believe we only know a small fraction of the disaster (nuclear wise)
another qst that comes to mind ...if this type of incident had happened in Pak (say when equake or floods hit Pak) the international community along with IAEA (or whatever they are called) would have well screwed Pakistan by now over this (and unfortunately some of our crowd would have joined them too!)
@ilhr
"would have well screwed Pakistan by now over this (and unfortunately some of our crowd would have joined them too!) "
Indeed...BTW: This throws out their "You are too backwards to handle nuclear...only we and India can handle it" :-P
Side Note:
Since we are talking nuclear disaster and those responsible (FIRST world), let me put in here how those 'responsible' nations behave (besides nuking Japan, Iraq, Afghanistan):
Stuxnet worm is aimed to sabotage Iran's nuclear ambition, new research shows
Computer expert says US behind Stuxnet worm
Remember this too was desined to cause a meltdown as it was designed to make valves etc report false values, make the cooling function go haywire etc. and yet show the instument panels of the operators show as if all was well...or in short it was designed to compromise digital safety systems so as to create a nuclear disaster...
1lhr
Member
@MG
"I've just seen an article which assures us that no way could the effects of exploding nuclear reactors in Japan reach US"
although interesting but leaving california coast news aside for now......i dont believe an article in newspaper will be an obstacle in the way of nuclear radiations reaching anywhere!
Joke of the day:
Nuclear Industry: "Trust us NEXT time, too"
Nuclear industry vows that lessons from Japan will make reactors 'even safer'
(Note the "even safer" double-talk....:)
More bad -- but expected -- news:
Japan’s Stricken Nuclear Power Plant Rocked by Blasts, Fire
In Japan, damaged nuclear reactors spew radiation
Fourth Japanese Nuclear Reactor Explodes ... Government Says High Levels of Radiation Being Released
And this one reminded me of the old "In case of a nuclear strike, hide under your desk and you will be fine..." propaganda videos from the 50s
Japanese PM urges residents near exploded Fukushima reactor to stay 'indoors'
I almost want to sind "Duck and Coverrr..." :)
"...even if you are exposed to extreme radiation and suffer radiation burns, you will recover completely...
RELATED:
Core issues: worst-case nuclear reactor scenarios
Full Core Meltdown In Japan Will Send Radiation Over United States:
BUT What happens if THREE or more have meltdown???? Well, folks, we are already there:
Japan's nightmare gets even WORSE: All THREE damaged nuclear reactors now in 'meltdown' at tsunami-hit power station
The situation is critical in the extreme. One doesn't know whether to hang one's head and weep or go and hang oneself from the nearest tree.
In such a mood, the two jokes above were a welcome diversion, yours, nota, on the incredible statements coming out of the nuclear industry at this point in time and also yours, 1lhr, which made me smile and say: touché.
God help us with the three damaged nuclear reactors racing against time.
d0ct0r
Member
At least they're concerned about people's laundry..
Radiation from Japan's quake-stricken Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant has reached harmful levels, the government says.
Radiation levels in the Japanese capital were reported to be higher than normal, but officials said there were no health dangers.
In a televised address, Prime Minister Naoto Kan said: "There is still a very high risk of more radiation coming out."
He added that the last remaining people within the existing 20km (12 mile) exclusion zone around the plant must leave.
Those living between 20km and 30km were also at risk and should not leave their homes.
"Now we are talking about levels that can impact human health," said Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano.He told residents: "Please do not go outside. Please stay indoors. Please close windows and make your homes airtight.
"Don't turn on ventilators. Please hang your laundry indoors."
bsobaid
Member
This is extremely worrying and concerning. I am praying for japenese.
Any idea how far it can spread if reactors leak? Will it spread all the way to us if wind direction is towards us?
kulla
Member
I am so glad that pakistan today doesnt have any nuclear plants for power generation.... I wish we could get wind and hydro power (although too many dams destroy agriculture though)..
bsobaid
Member
@kulla, Pakistan does not have have nuclear power plants anymore??
I dont think so. I think we still do.
kulla
Member
for power generation. what we have are small nuclear reactors for fuel for our nbombs...but they are very smal lscale limited.
asif65
Member
10 years ago I took part in exhibition in Islamabad. There was also a stall for nuclear plant. I visited them and warned them about consequences of nuclear energy. There were three gays on the stall two of them were bearded one of them was clean shave. I was a little disappointed as the two boys with beard gave me Fatwa to be enemy of Islam and agent of Israel but the clean shave young man was very nice to me and supported my arguments. At that time I was against the nuclear power and I am still against the nuclear power. Germany has reacted and has stop 13 from 17 nuclear plants. There was demo of 60.000 people against the nuclear power.
liv_2_die
Member
asif65
stop this racism about boys with beard did this and that .. What the F has beard to do with arguments of one person on any topic .. people like you create classes between people, spread hatred and fights ... absurd
back to the topic ...
i am all aginst use of nuclear energy for all purposes since the evil oppertunities it brings out weighs the benefits
bsobaid
Member
So any word on how far radiation can spread? all the way to us?
asif65
Member
As most of the reader already knows that I am a Tablighi and as most of the tablighi have beard I have also a beard. Actually I told the things that happened. At that time I was expecting a different behavior but I learned from that occasion that only beard doesn’t make you a sensible person.
Another thing I learned that most of the people in Pakistan want short term solution without thinking about the long term damage with it. Instead of working and investing for solar plants (long term solution without any damage/evil) most of the resource were given for nuclear plant or nuclear energy knowhow. And anybody who tried to speak against these steps was stamped as enemy of Islam or agent of Israel.
@So any word on how far radiation can spread? all the way to us?
Nuclear radiation clouds can go any where depend on wind direction.
BTW: There is a doubt that American army is using light atomic weapons in Afghanistan and in Pakistan tribal areas. once soil contaminated with radiation that can cause many disease for thousands of years.
And it confirmed by many western nuclear radiation research teams.we are already victims of nuclear radiation.
Depleted uranium, radioactive toxic waste that is a by-product of uranium enrichment, was first used in 1973 in the Yom Kippur war when Secretary of State Henry Kissinger and the U.S. government gave it to Israel to use on the Arabs. It is now used in Afghanistan and Iran, plus some European countries. Extensive studies by scientists have indicated that exposure to DU aerosols from DU munitions before and after they are exploded are poisoning soldiers at the scene and civilians who remain in their countries, since radiation contamination lasts for many years once it gets into the air, soil, and water. Some describe the spread of the material as genocide.
http://lonestaricon.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=736:is-use-of-du-bioterrorism&catid=35:worldwide&Itemid=69
A NEW WEAPON DEVELOPED WITH DEPLETED URANIUM which would leave particles with a half life of perhaps 4.5 Billion Years. America and the Allies took great pleasure in the FIRST GULF WAR and SECOND GULF WAR which is still ongoing so very pleased at the fact that the so called terrorists and enemy did not have such a weapon of mass destruction which would not only destroy military personnel and weapons but be guaranteed to contaminate the entire country where the weapons were dispersed with little or no casualties to American or Allied Forces.
Depleted uranium has been used for military use from Bosnia-HerzegovinaMontenegro Serbia to the Gaza Strip, Lebanon Kuwait Iraq, and Afghanistan.
The use of depleted uranium (D.U.)—more properly nuclear waste—and other substances in Iraq and Afghanistan cannot be ruled out as a cause of post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) reported by U.S., Coalition, and NATO veterans. Veterans who have served in Anglo-American occupied Iraq and NATO-garrisoned Afghanistan are coming back in sizeable numbers with medical, stress, and psychological problems, but there are undoubtedly more factors involved than just the theatre of military service or the war zone.
It is now known that Gulf War Syndrome was caused by the large-scale use of depleted uranium against Iraq in 1991. Additionally, about 70% (even possibly more) of Gulf War Veterans have had children born after the Gulf War with mutations, deformities, genetic disorders, and severe medical illnesses.
"A significant portion of the civilian population"? It appears that by going after a handful of terrorists in Afghanistan we have poisoned a huge number of innocent civilians, with a disproportionate number of them being children.
The military has found depleted uranium in the urine of some soldiers but contends it was not enough to make them seriously ill in most cases. Critics have asked for more sensitive, more expensive testing.
According to an October 2004 Dispatch from the Italian Military Health Observatory, a total of 109 Italian soldiers have died thus far due to exposure to depleted uranium. A spokesman at the Military Health Observatory, Domenico Leggiero, states "The total of 109 casualties exceeds the total number of persons dying as a consequence of road accidents. Anyone denying the significance of such data is purely acting out of ill faith, and the truth is that our soldiers are dying out there due to a lack of adequate protection against depleted uranium". Members of the Observatory have petitioned for an urgent hearing "in order to study effective prevention and safeguard measures aimed at reducing the death-toll amongst our serving soldiers".
http://thetruthnews.info/depleted_uranium.html
"Gilani said we cannot fight against U.S."
you fight or not you are going to die anyway.)
asif65
Member
I hope we realize soon these changes too and start invest heavily in new plants (e.g. solar energy)
German commentators have proclaimed the end of nuclear power as a global source of energy -- even as China and India reaffirmed their commitment to invest heavily in new plants to satisfy their surging energy needs.
The fear is driven in part by the evident similarities between the two highly developed, industrial nations, both known for their technological prowess and rigorous safety standards. If it can happen in Japan, then it could certainly happen here, say Germans, who have a high level of respect for Japanese engineering.
Conservative newspaper Die Welt declared in a commentary on Monday that Fukushima would have a political and psychological impact "as great as 9/11," ....
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,751135,00.html
Eyes Wide Shut: Japanese Government
Radioactivity forecast system down
"Radiation? What radiation?"
GOOGLE
Member
No need to be worried too much. I am living not very far from the plant. There is lot of information available but in Japanese. Situation start becoming better.
This is the current radiation levels all over japan.
http://www.mext.go.jp/component/a_menu/other/detail/__icsFiles/afieldfile/2011/03/16/1303723_4.pdf
This is the radiation level at the plant and its is not too much.
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