PKPolitics Discuss » Faith and Religion

Jesus(as) Died Natural Death

(122 posts)
  1. fear

    Raheb,Lifeh20,and Fayyaz

    I know Fayyaz is Qadiani?. I don't know about both of U, But ur thoughts are very much Similar to Qadiani Cult?

    LeT See

    JESUS ALIVE OR DEAD

    Jesus (A.S.) also says in the Bible,

    ... and a little while and you shall not see me; and again a little while, you shall see me because I go to the Father.
    (Bible, John 16:16)

    ... and the Holy Qur'an says,

    And surely they slew him not. But Allah (God) raised him unto Himself.
    (Holy Qur'an, Surah Nisaa, Verse 157-158)

    As such, Muslims believe that Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) was raised to heaven. According to Hadith, he is on the second heaven. Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam=Peace be upon him) mentioned, "During the Meraj (Ascension), I met Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) on the second heaven. I found him of medium stature, reddish white. His body was so clean and clear, that it appeared as though he had just performed ghusal (ablution, cleansing of the entire body) and come." In another Hadith, Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) mentioned to the Jews that, " Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) is not dead, he will most surely return to you before Qiyamat (the Day of Judgement)."

    May Allah Guide all people to the Truth. Aameen.

    II. Hadhrat Isa's (A.S.) Descension The Physical Features of Hadhrat Isa (A.S.)

    He will resemble the famous Sahabi (A.S.) Hadhrat Urwa bin Masoodi (R.A.). He will be of average height and red and white in colour. His hair spread to the shoulders, straight, neat and shining as after a bath. On bending his head, it will seem as if pearls are falling. He will have an armour on his body. He will be wearing two pieces of cloth light yellow in color.

    His Descension

    He will descend on a Jamaat (group) that will be righteous at the time and comprising of 800 men and 400 women. The people will be preparing for war at the time against Dajjal (the anti-Christ). It will be time for Fajr prayers, and Imam Mahdi will be the Amir (leader). From the darkness of the dawn, a sound will suddenly be heard that "one who listens to your pleas has come" -- the righteous people will look everywhere and their eyes will fall on Isa (A.S.). Briefly, at the time of Fajr, Isa (A.S.) will descend. When descending, Isa (A.S.)'s hands will be on the shoulders of two angels (according to another source (Kab Abrar), a cloud will carry him). On their insistence Hadhrat Isa will introduce himself. He will inquire about their enthusiasm and thoughts on Jihad against Dajjal. Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) will descend on the eastern side near the Minaret in Damascus (or in Baitul-Muqaddus by Imam Mahdi). At the time Imam Mahdi will have proceeded forward to lead the Fajr Salaat. The Iqamat of the Salaat would have been said (already recited) and Imam Mahdi will call Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) for Imamat (to lead the prayer), but he (Hadhrat Isa (A.S.)) will instead tell Imam Mahdi to lead the prayer since the Iqamat of that Salaat has already been said for him. Thus Imam Mahdi will lead the prayer, and Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) will follow him. After the ruku, he will make this statement: "Allah has killed Dajjal and the Muslims have appeared."

    The Killing of Dajjal (anti-Christ) and the Victory of the Muslims

    After the completion of Fajr Salaat (congregational dawn prayers), Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) will open the door behind him where Dajjal accompanied by 70,000 Yahudis (Jews) will be. He will indicate with his hand to move away between him (Hadhrat Isa (A.S.)) and Dajjal. Dajjal will then see Hadhrat Isa (A.S.). At that time every Kafir on whom the breath of Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) will reach, will die. His breath will reach up to the distance of his eyesight. The Muslims will then come down from the mountains and break loose on the army of Dajjal. There will be war, Dajjal will retreat, and Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) will pursue Dajjal. Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) will have two flexible swords and one shield with him and with these he will kill Dajjal at the Gate of Hudd. He willl show the Muslims the blood of Dajjal which will get on his shield. Eventually the Yahudis will be selected and killed. The swine will be killed and the cross broken. People will revert to Islam. Wars will end, and people will return to their respective countries. One Jamaat (group) of Muslims will remain in his service and companionship.

    Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) will go to Fajr Rawha and perform Haj or Umrah (or both) from there. He will also go to the grave of Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) and present his greetings and Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) will reply. People will live comfortable lives. The wall of Yajooj and Majooj (Gog and Magog) will then break.

    III. The Blessings of Hadhrat Isa (Jesus) (A.S.)

    1 Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) will descend and stay on earth.
    2 His descension will be in the last era of the Ummat.
    3 He will be a just ruler and a fair judge.
    4 His ummat will be the Khalifa (deputies) of Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam).
    5 He will act himself and instruct others on the Qur'an and Hadith (Shariat/Tradition of Islam).
    6 He will lead people in Salaat (Prayer).
    7 He will stay on earth for a period of 40 years after descending. The will be the best era of the Ummat after the first era of Islam.
    8 Allah will protect his companions from Jahannam.
    9 Those who will save the Deen of Islam by associating themselves with Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) will be amongst the most loved by Allah Ta'ala.
    10 During this period all other religions and mazhabs besides Islam will perish, hence there will be no kuffaars (non-believers) in the world.
    11 Jihad will be stopped.
    12 No Khiraaj will be taken.
    13 Nor Jizya (protection tax) money from the kafirs (non-believers)
    14 Wealth and property will be in surplus to such an extent that there will be no one to accept the wealth of the other (everyone will be independent).
    15 Receiving Zakaat (Alms-giving, Charity to poor) and Saadaqa will be discarded (as there will be no poor to receive them!).
    16 The people will love the sajda (prostration to God) more than the world and what it consists of.
    17 All types of Deeni (religious) and worldly blessings will descend on earth (many halaal (lawful) things will be created).
    18 There will be peace, harmony and tranquility during the time of Hadhrat Isa (A.S.)'s stay in the world.
    19 There will be no animosity for a period of seven years, even between two persons.
    20 All hearts will be free from miserliness, envy, hatred, malice and jealousy.
    21 For a period of forty years no one will fall ill or die.
    22 Venom will be taken out of all venomous animals.
    23 Snakes and scorpions will not harm anyone to the extent that if a child put his hand in its mouth, he will not be harmed.
    24 Will animals will not harm anyone.
    25 If a man will pass a lion, he will not be troubled or harmed, or even if any girl will open its mouth to test if it will do anything.
    26 The camels will graze among lions, cheetahs with cattle and the jackals with goats.
    27 The fertility of the land will increase to such an extent that even if a seed is planted in a hard rock, it will sprout.
    28 A pomegranate will be so huge that a jamaat will be able to eat it and the people will use its peel as shade.
    29 There will be so much barakaat (blessing) in milk that a camel will suffice for a huge jamaat, a cow for a tribe and a goat for a family.
    30 In short, life will be most pleasant after the descension of Jesus (A.S.).

    His Marriage, Death and Deputies

    After his descension on earth, Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) will marry. He will have children, and he will remain on earth 19 years after marriage. He will pass away and Muslims will perform his Janaza Salaat and bury him net to Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam). (Tirmidhi)

    from: Hadhrat Esa (Alaihis Salaam): The Truth Revealed
    and Major Signs of Qiyamat
    by Mufti Afzal Hoosein Elias (May Allah reward him for his work in producing these kitaabs, aameen.)
    from the original (with references): "Aalalaat-e-Qiyyamat aur Nuzul-e-Eesa."

    =============================================

    And u are not agreeing Because Qadiani believe Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is Dead (The Promised Missiah for Qadian)?

    Mirza Ghulam Qadiani will go to the Jahanam and with him a lot of Innocent People will?

    So Leave the Qadianiat (A way of Devil).

    and Remember, Mark my Words?

    You will not agree with Quran unless u leave the Qadiniat?

    Posted 3 years ago on 10 Aug 2010 7:58 #
  2. @SS with all your respect please stop putting people in different boxes and answer their questions. They way you start answering is just like molvi. At start he says you are kafir, and even if he try to answer he makes it clear that he can not explain it to a kafir. So you are doing.

    I am not a qadyani or whatever you call me, i dont believe any so called prophets but respect all great people who worked great for Islam and humanity. Also i am grown up enough to say myself a Muslim rather then defining with a sect.

    Only thing that you people don't believe is free thinking, you walk on foot prints of your elders while i try to see where they are leading and free to choose my own way if i ever see them wrong.

    I am here for free open discussion. Repeating again, please answer the question 4 and correct me if i am wrong.

    Posted 3 years ago on 10 Aug 2010 11:22 #
  3. fear

    H20

    I am sorry i didn't mean u are qadiani, but ur believe match about Jesus match with Qadianis
    Please Click on question 4,

    U have quoted a wrong question?

    Posted 3 years ago on 10 Aug 2010 11:37 #
  4. and Remember, Mark my Words?

    You will not agree with Quran unless u leave the Qadiniat?

    :) well i agree with Quran but NOT WITH YOU! Someone told me that the concept of coming back of Jesus is actually of Jews and Christians because they never accepted a Prophet who did not belong to them (He came to Arabs) and they always waited for the Prophet that was promised by Jesus and Moses.
    Jews waiting for a Maseeh, Christians and Muslims waiting for Jesus come back

    Posted 3 years ago on 10 Aug 2010 11:45 #
  5. U have quoted a wrong question?

    It is correct now

    It was:
    http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/jesusas-died-natural-death/page/2#post-168455

    4. Why the meanings of word mutawaffi are not taken in last verse?

    From these versus it appears that it is nothing but a change of meanings.

    Posted 3 years ago on 10 Aug 2010 12:13 #
  6. hariskhan

    Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @LifeH2O: Tell me, why is the 'how' important ?

    I don't understand what your asking in Q#4.

    Posted 3 years ago on 10 Aug 2010 12:20 #
  7. @hariskhan

    Tell me, why is the 'how' important ?

    simply, because it doesn't fit my mind.

    I don't understand what your asking in Q#4.

    Read the versus that i pointed in my question. In all those versus, the word mutawaffi has given the meaning of death. but in the last one it is totally different.

    Posted 3 years ago on 10 Aug 2010 12:24 #
  8. hariskhan

    Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @LifeH2O: That is not a good enough reason for this question of 'how' to be answered/addressed.

    Ayah #157 of Surah Nisa, in Quran states that the 'how' has 'deliberately' been kept in 'confusion' by ALLAH ALMIGHTY.

    When I hear something from ALLAH ALMIGHTY in a matter, that is the last word for me. That is good enough for me.

    As far as I'm concerned, you are free to search for the answer to this question. I'm not going to go into it. It is irrelevant in this context.

    Posted 3 years ago on 10 Aug 2010 12:29 #
  9. As far as I'm concerned, you are free to search for the answer to this question. I'm not going to go into it. It is irrelevant in this context.

    Which question? 4 is totally relevant.

    Posted 3 years ago on 10 Aug 2010 12:34 #
  10. متوفی کا لفظ اردو میں عام استعمال کیا جاتا ہے جیسے اکثر اخبارات میں "متوفی <فلاں>" کا مطلب <فلاں> مرحوم لیا جاتے گا .

    سورة الأنعام 60
    وَهُوَ الَّذِي يَتَوَفَّاكُم بِاللَّيْلِ وَيَعْلَمُ مَا جَرَحْتُم بِالنَّهَارِ ثُمَّ يَبْعَثُكُمْ فِيهِ لِيُقْضَى أَجَلٌ مُّسَمًّى ثُمَّ إِلَيْهِ مَرْجِعُكُمْ ثُمَّ يُنَبِّئُكُم بِمَا كُنتُمْ تَعْمَلُونَ
    "اور وہی تو ہے جو رات کو سونے کی حالت میں تمہاری روح قبض کر لیتا ہے اور جو کچھ تم دن میں کرتے ہو اس سے خبر رکھتا ہے پھر دن کو تمہیں اٹھا دیتا ہے تاکہ یہی سلسلہ جاری رکھ کر زندگی کی معیّن مدّت پوری پوری کر دی جانے پھر تم سب کو اسی کی طرف لوٹ کر جانا ہے پھر وہ تم کو تمہارے عمل جو تم کرتے رہتے ہو ایک ایک کر کے بتانے گا" محمّد حفیظ جالندھری

    سورة الزمر42
    اللَّهُ
    يَتَوَفَّى الْأَنفُسَ حِينَ مَوْتِهَا وَالَّتِي لَمْ تَمُتْ فِي مَنَامِهَا فَيُمْسِكُ الَّتِي قَضَى عَلَيْهَا الْمَوْتَ وَيُرْسِلُ الْأُخْرَى إِلَى أَجَلٍ مُسَمًّى إِنَّ فِي ذَلِكَ لَآيَاتٍ لِّقَوْمٍ يَتَفَكَّرُونَ
    الله لوگوں ک مرنے کے وقت ان کی روحیں قبض کر لیتا ہے اور جو مرے نہیں ان کی روحیں سوتے میں قبض کر لیتا ہے پھر جن پر موت کا حکم کر چکتا ہے ان کو روک رکھتا ہے اور باقی روحوں کو ایک وقت مقرّر تک کے لئے چھوڑ دتا ہے جو لوگ غور و فکر کرتے ہیں ان ک لئے اس میں نشانیاں ہیں" محمّد حفیظ جالندھری

    سورة المائدة117
    مَا قُلْتُ لَهُمْ إِلاَّ مَا أَمَرْتَنِي بِهِ أَنِ اعْبُدُواْ اللّهَ رَبِّي وَرَبَّكُمْ وَكُنتُ عَلَيْهِمْ شَهِيدًا مَّا دُمْتُ فِيهِمْ فَلَمَّا تَوَفَّيْتَنِي كُنتَ أَنتَ الرَّقِيبَ عَلَيْهِمْ وَأَنتَ عَلَى كُلِّ شَيْءٍ شَهِيدٌ
    "میں نے ان کو کچھ نہیں کہا بجز اس کے جس کا تو نے مجھے حکم دیا وہ یہ کے تم الله کی عبادت کرو جو میرا اور تمہارا سب کا پروردگار ہے. اور جب تک میں ان میں رہا ان کے حالات کی خبر رکھتا رہا پھر جب تو نے مجھے دنیا سے اٹھا لیا تو تو ہی ان کا نگران تھا اور تو ہر چیز سے خبردار ہے" محمّد حفیظ جالندھری

    سورة آل عمران144
    وَمَا مُحَمَّدٌ إِلاَّ رَسُولٌ قَدْ خَلَتْ مِن قَبْلِهِ الرُّسُلُ أَفَإِن مَّاتَ أَوْ قُتِلَ انقَلَبْتُمْ عَلَى أَعْقَابِكُمْ وَمَن يَنقَلِبْ عَلَىَ عَقِبَيْهِ فَلَن يَضُرَّ اللّهَ شَيْئًا وَسَيَجْزِي اللّهُ الشَّاكِرِينَ
    "اور محمّد ایک پیغمبر ہی تو ہیں. ان سے پہلے بھی بہت سے پیغمبر ہو گزرے ہیں. بھلا اگر یہ مر جایئں یا مارے جایئں تو کیا تم الٹے پاؤں پھر جاؤ گے؟ اور جو الٹے پاؤں پھر جاتے گا تو الله کا کچھ نقصان نہیں کر سکے گا." محمّد حفیظ جالندھری

    This is the Ayyat where meanings collide.
    سورة آل عمران55
    إِذْ قَالَ اللّهُ يَا عِيسَى إِنِّي مُتَوَفِّيكَ وَرَافِعُكَ إِلَيَّ وَمُطَهِّرُكَ مِنَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ وَجَاعِلُ الَّذِينَ اتَّبَعُوكَ فَوْقَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ إِلَى يَوْمِ الْقِيَامَةِ
    "اس وقت الله نے فرمایا کہ اے عیسا میں ٺمہارى دنیا میں رہنے کی مدّت پوری کر کے تم کو اپنی طرف اٹھا لوں گا اور تمہیں کافروں کی صحبت سے پاک کر دوں گا اور جو لوگ تمہارے پیروی کریں گے ان کو کافروں پر قیمت تک غالب رکھوں گا" محمّد حفیظ جالندھری

    Posted 3 years ago on 10 Aug 2010 12:38 #
  11. hariskhan

    Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    I'm reading, for addressing Q #4.

    DISCLAIMER: Please note: I'm an intellectual. I'm not! as 'knowledgeable' as an 'AAlim' of Quran-o-Hadees.

    Posted 3 years ago on 10 Aug 2010 12:43 #
  12. hariskhan

    Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @LifeH2O: You are playing with 'words', here. If ALLAH ALMIGHTY wanted to say 'died', HE would have 'used' the word for 'died'.

    The following are irrelevant in this context;

    (1) Surah Al-An'am (6) Ayah #60 (6:60)
    (2) Surah Az-Zumar (39) Ayah #42 (39:42)
    (3) Surah Al-e-Imran (3) Ayah #144 (3:144)

    The following Ayah agrees with what I say, not what you 'claim';

    (4) Surah Al-Maida (5) Ayah #117 (5:117)

    You'r missing the 'context' in which the following Ayah is going;

    (5) Surah Al-e-Imran (3) Ayah #55 (3:55)

    so it is natural you'll be 'confused'.

    Posted 3 years ago on 10 Aug 2010 12:47 #
  13. I am not playing with words. I am showing the meanings of this word everywhere but in last Ayah.
    As the meaning differs you made them irrelevant.
    I forgot to mention ayah of al maida also where the meanings are taken totally in differently from those previous verses. Why? To give them the meaning as they are now?

    Posted 3 years ago on 10 Aug 2010 13:11 #
  14. Also see the how others did this task. Only first one is taking the meaning as death.

    http://www.alim.org/library/quran/ayah/compare/5/117/Al-Maida
    Surah 5. Al-Maida, Ayah 117
    Asad : Nothing did I tell them beyond what Thou didst bid me [to say]: 'Worship God, [who is] my Sustainer as well as your Sustainer.' And I bore witness to what they did as long as I dwelt in their midst; but since Thou hast caused me to die, Thou alone hast been their keeper: 140 for Thou art witness unto everything.

    Malik : I never said anything other than what You commanded me to say, that is to worship Allah, Who is my Rabb and your Rabb. I was a witness over them as long as I remained among them; but when You called me off, You were the Watcher over them and You are a Witness to everything.

    Pickthall : I spake unto them only that which Thou commandedst me, (saying) : Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. I was a witness of them while I dwelt among them, and when Thou tookest me Thou wast the Watcher over them. Thou art Witness over all things.

    Yusuf Ali : "Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say to wit `Worship Allah my Lord and your Lord'; and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; when Thou didst take me up thou wast the Watcher over them and Thou art a Witness to all things.

    Posted 3 years ago on 10 Aug 2010 13:14 #
  15. hariskhan

    Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @LifeH2O: I'm not going to engage in an endless 'arguing' with you. I have already stated what I needed to, in this context.

    I'll leave it at that, untill I have something worthwhile to talk about.

    If you want to go further into details, I would say, go to a local 'Aalim'.

    P.S. You haven't mentioned 'why' the question about 'how' is meaningful, important ?

    Posted 3 years ago on 10 Aug 2010 14:59 #
  16. NNL

    Read the 3rd post on this thread and you will find your answer.

    Posted 3 years ago on 10 Aug 2010 19:01 #
  17. fear

    ..................

    Posted 3 years ago on 12 Aug 2010 8:52 #
  18. fayyaz214

    Dear all, Assalamo Elikum, I learnt what happened to Hazrat Eisa from Dr. Israr Ahmad and believed that he is not dead. But, over the years, as I studied this topic, I came to a different conclusion. I pray to Allah (SWT) that if my conclusion is wrong, he help me correct it. At the same time, I will request to the readers to ask themselves a question after Isha tonight, while feeling the presense of Allah (SWT), have I let Quran and Sunnah guide me on this topic, or am I getting guidance from a certain Alim.

    Now to why did I change my mind. Let me start with the first reason

    Quran says, 10:46
    وَإِمَّا نُرِيَنَّكَ بَعْضَ الَّذِي نَعِدُهُمْ أَوْ نَتَوَفَّيَنَّكَ فَإِلَيْنَا مَرْجِعُهُمْ ثُمَّ اللّهُ شَهِيدٌ عَلَى مَا يَفْعَلُونَ
    This Ayah is talking about our beloved prophet and here we understand the word tawafee to mean death.

    Now, why would we take a different meaning of this word in the following verse, especially when there is a hadith (quoted below) that reinforces (at least indirectly) its meaning to be death and there is NO hadith that talks about Hazrat Eisa not being dead (I acknowledge there are ahadith about his second coming, but NO hadith about him not being dead that I am aware off)

    مَا قُلْتُ لَهُمْ إِلاَّ مَا أَمَرْتَنِي بِهِ أَنِ اعْبُدُواْ اللّهَ رَبِّي وَرَبَّكُمْ وَكُنتُ عَلَيْهِمْ شَهِيدًا مَّا دُمْتُ فِيهِمْ فَلَمَّا تَوَفَّيْتَنِي كُنتَ أَنتَ الرَّقِيبَ عَلَيْهِمْ وَأَنتَ عَلَى كُلِّ شَيْءٍ شَهِيدٌ
    I have not said to them anything but what You have ordered me to say, that is, _Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord‘ and I was a witness over them as long as I was with them. But when You “tawafee” me, You were the One watching over them. You are a witness over everything.

    Bukhari (may Allah have mercy on him), quoted following hadith in Kitab-Tafseer for this Ayah

    "Allah's Apostle delivered a sermon and said, "O people! You will be gathered before Allah bare-footed, naked and not circumcised." Then (quoting Quran) he said:--
    "As We began the first creation, We shall repeat it. A promise We have undertaken: Truly we shall do it.." (21.104)
    The Prophet then said, "The first of the human beings to be dressed on the Day of Resurrection, will be Abraham. Lo! Some men from my followers will be brought and then (the angels) will drive them to the left side (Hell-Fire). I will say. 'O my Lord! (They are) my companions!' Then a reply will come (from Almighty), 'You do not know what they did after you.' I will say as the pious slave (the Prophet Jesus) said: And I was a witness over them while I dwelt amongst them. When You tawafee me. You were the Watcher over them and You are a Witness to all things.' (5.117) Then it will be said, "These people have continued to be apostates since you left them."

    So again, my question is, why would we take meaning of word tawafee, other than death, in 5-117, while we'll not do that in Ayah 10-46 (as an example), especially in the light of Hadith from Bukhari that is suppose to explain this Ayah, and also given that there is NO hadith that talks about Hazrat Eisa not being dead (I acknowledge there are ahadith about his second coming, but NO hadith about him not being dead that I am aware off)

    Posted 3 years ago on 14 Aug 2010 12:56 #
  19. @Sufer Soldier (lolz, i am taking nick revenge :P)

    Here is another Proof that he is dead.

    -You know very well that NO prophet before Jesus is Alive

    See Surah Ma'idah 5:75
    http://www.islamawakened.com/quran/5/75/default.htm
    "The Messiah, son of Mary, was no other than a Messenger, like other Messengers before him who passed on. And his mother was a woman of truth. Both of them were human beings who had to eat food (like all other mortals). See how clearly We explain Our verses for them and note how they keep wandering in thought!"

    plus see this verse

    Surah Ale Imran 3:144
    "Muhammad is no more than a Messenger, surely the Messengers before him have already passed away. If then he dies or be killed, will you turn upon your heels?"

    Is it clear?

    Also see the properties and attributes of a Prophet defined by Quran. They were NOT super humans

    Surah Al-Anbiya
    21:7
    "We did not send before you (O Muhammad(pbuh)) any but man to whom We sent revelations; therefore you ask the followers of the Reminder if you do not know"

    21:8
    "And We did not give them bodies not taking food and neither are they abiding"

    Surah al-Furqan
    25:20
    "And We did not send before you any the Messengers, but they surely ate food and walked through the street."

    Still need more proof?

    Reference: http://www.freewebs.com/nadqur/

    Posted 3 years ago on 14 Aug 2010 20:41 #
  20. fear

    @LifeC20

    Surah Ale Imran 3:144
    "Muhammad is no more than a Messenger, surely the Messengers before him have already passed away. If then he dies or be killed, will you turn upon your heels?"

    Is it clear?

    Also see the properties and attributes of a Prophet defined by Quran. They were NOT super humans

    TRUE MEANING OF ‘QAD KHALAT’ IN QURAN 3:144

    Ahamadis (Qadianis) use the verse 3:144 to convey that all the Prophets before Holy Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) have died. They use it to suggest that even Prophet Jesus (PBUH) has died;

    ‘And Muhammad is only a messenger — messengers have already passed away (qad khalat) before him. If, then, he dies or is killed, will you turn back upon your heels?’ [Translation by Qadianis](Quran 3: 144)

    1-Meaning of ‘qad khalat’:

    Here the actual Arabic word is ‘qad khalat‘ which comes from the word ‘khala’.

    About ‘khala’ Raghib Isphahani says:
    والخلو يستعمل في الزمان والمكان لكن لما تصور في الزمان المضى فسر أهل اللغة خلا الزمان بقولهم مضى الزمان وذهب

    “Al-Khallu (the root of khala) is used for for both time and space and but as there is a nuance of the past in (its usage of) time so linguists take it to refer to the past.” (Mufradaat al-Quran 1/158) …. and then he gives Quran 3:144 and 13:6 as its examples.

    Thus he makes it clear that the verse does not refer to the death of the Prophets before Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). It does not even deal with their being alive or dead rather it only refers to their fact of their having lived in the past.

    2-Meaning of ‘khala’ for persons:

    It’s also wrong to say that when used for persons the word khala means death for we read in the Quran:

    ‘…and there never were a people, without a Warner having lived (khala) among them (in the past)’ (Quran 35: 24)

    Even according to the translation of Sher Ali Qadiani it reads as; ‘and there is no people to whom a Warner has not been sent.’

    In this verse translating the word ‘khala’ as Qadianis say otherwise will certainly be absurd.

    See Surah Ma'idah 5:75
    http://www.islamawakened.com/quran/5/75/default.htm
    "The Messiah, son of Mary, was no other than a Messenger, like other Messengers before him who passed on. And his mother was a woman of truth. Both of them were human beings who had to eat food (like all other mortals). See how clearly We explain Our verses for them and note how they keep wandering in thought!"

    3-Its meaning in relation to Quran 5:75:

    Quran 5:75 goes as:

    Some try to relate it to Quran 5:75 mistranslating it as:

    “The Messiah, son of Mary, was only a Messenger; surely, Messengers like unto him had indeed passed away before him.” [Qadiani Translation]

    Infact to take this verse 5:75 to refer to death of all the prophets is erroneous because we know that while Jesus (PBUH) walked this Earth Prophet Yahya (John the Baptist) was alive. So the correct translation of this verse is as under;

    “The Masih, son of Maryam, is no more than a Messenger. There have been messengers before him…”

    Therefore the best translation of Quran 3: 144 is as done by Shaykh Taqi Usmani i.e.

    ‘And Muhammad is but a messenger, there have been messengers before him. So, if he dies or is killed, would you turn back on your heels?’

    All the explanation above refutes the Qadiani position in favor of the Islamic creed.

    INDEED ALLAH KNOWS THE BEST!

    ========================
    Now my friend LIFE C20 Your knowledge is surely based on Cojeceture as many of Qadianis Believe?

    Please Prove me/

    How Jesus is Dead?

    Posted 3 years ago on 16 Aug 2010 9:22 #
  21. Fantasy has no proof and will never get any.

    The reason i am saying that Jesus is dead because my mind can not accept anything that has no logic, no reason, and does not meat nature laws.

    The reason i take the logical meanings of verses is that they are more close to reality and easier to accept. If you say that i am doing sin changing the meanings of Quran, you are wrong. For example if someone tells me 'hey, your friend said to me that i'll kill you. I will tell him that he must be kidding'. Same i am doing here, for me those meanings are more clear, logical, acceptable and natural.

    Two contradicting thoughts together

    All the explanation above refutes the Qadiani position in favor of the Islamic creed.

    and

    INDEED ALLAH KNOWS THE BEST!

    You said that

    Please Prove me/

    How Jesus is Dead?

    For your claim/question/conjecture here is a counter claim/question/conjecture

    Please prove me/
    How Muhammad(PBUH) and any other Prophet is Dead?

    Posted 3 years ago on 16 Aug 2010 20:52 #
  22. ....

    Posted 3 years ago on 16 Aug 2010 22:07 #
  23. fear

    LIFE H2SO4

    The reason i am saying that Jesus is dead because my mind can not accept anything that has no logic, no reason, and does not meat nature laws.

    Somethings are absoulute which human mind can't Accept?.

    I give u simple example of (Miraj Shareef). People don't believe it because it is over and above human mind, SO is the case Jesus (PBUH). Qadiani are agent of Britisher they want to change the original faith of Islam

    The reason i take the logical meanings of verses is that they are more close to reality and easier to accept. If you say that i am doing sin changing the meanings of Quran, you are wrong. For example if someone tells me 'hey, your friend said to me that i'll kill you. I will tell him that he must be kidding'. Same i am doing here, for me those meanings are more clear, logical, acceptable and natural.

    Please don't poison the air with HNO3. Talk with source

    Two contradicting thoughts together

    These are two supporting thoughts which u are not ready to accept

    How Muhammad(PBUH) and any other Prophet is Dead?

    people dont't believe that Muhammad (PBUH) and other Prophet had been raised to heaven, So i should prove which people believe, People believe that Jesus (PBUH) had been raised to heaven SO this also show ur childish thinking

    and I have proved you that Jesus (PBUH) had been raised in heaven. and you don't believe what i said, So for logically

    you have to prove, It's ur turn

    Please prove me how Jesus (PBUH) is dead

    Posted 3 years ago on 17 Aug 2010 5:30 #
  24. @Suffer Chatter

    Somethings are absoulute which human mind can't Accept?

    It is absolute for you, not for me.

    I give u simple example of (Miraj Shareef). People don't believe it because it is over and above human mind, SO is the case Jesus (PBUH).

    Whole story of Miraj Shareef is based on a single Quranic verse.

    Qadiani are agent of Britisher they want to change the original faith of Islam.

    Are you Qadiyani?

    Talk with source

    I can think with my own mind. I don't need a source most of the times. Anyway source of fantasy is human mind (if you agree that dreams are made built by mind and it is not the soul that travels while sleeping)

    These are two supporting thoughts which u are not ready to accept

    You too are unable to accept. For you science and religion are two different things. For me they can never be separated.

    How Muhammad(PBUH) and any other Prophet is Dead?

    people dont't believe that Muhammad (PBUH) and other Prophet had been raised to heaven, So i should prove which people believe, People believe that Jesus (PBUH) had been raised to heaven SO this also show ur childish thinking

    I have the same claim. My grand grand grand father is not dead. He is alive from 400 years and lives between us invisibly.
    There is no way you can prove my statement as false... try it

    Please prove me how Jesus (PBUH) is dead

    Sorry, i can't. You always have the 'correct' meanings of the verses. So do i.
    You never accept the more logical and near reality meanings. I never accept those that are not logical.

    Can you please give a try to this (http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/husn-e-yusuf-not-in-quran) question also.

    Posted 3 years ago on 17 Aug 2010 17:42 #
  25. fayyaz214

    @SS .. any feedback on my post above?

    Posted 3 years ago on 17 Aug 2010 19:58 #
  26. fear

    LIFE

    Whole story of Miraj Shareef is based on a single Quranic verse.

    The Whole story of Jesus is also mention in Quran and Also in Hadith

    Let SEE

    Hadith 1
    عن ابن عباس قال: لما أراد الله أن يرفع عيسى إلى السماء خرج على أصحابه …ورفع عيسى من رَوْزَنَة في البيت إلى السماء

    Ibn Abbas said, “When Allah intended to raise Jesus (PBUH) to the heavens, he went to his companions…and Jesus (PBUH) ascended to the Heavens through an opening in the top of the house.”
    (Ibn Abi Hatim 4/431 Hadith 6266, Ibn Kathir 2/449. Ibn Kathir called it Sahih)

    Hadith 2
    عن صفية أم المؤمنين رضي الله عنها أنها كانت إذا زارت بيت المقدس ، وفرغت من الصلاة في المسجد الأقصى صعدت على جبل زيتا فصلت عليه وقالت : هذا الجبل هو الذي رفع منه عيسى عليه السلام إلى السماء

    It is narrated from Ummul Momineen Safiya (RA) that when she visited Bait Al-Maqdis (i.e. Jerusalem) and finished prayers in Al-Aqsa Mosque she climbed up to Mt. Olives and prayed there as well and said: ‘This is the mountain from where Jesus (PBUH) was raised up to the Heavens.’ (Al-Tasrih bima Tawatar fi Nuzul Al-Masih Hadith 74 cf. Tafsir Fath Al-Aziz Surah 95)

    Hadith 3
    إن أبا هريرة رضي الله عنه قال : قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم : « كيف أنتم إذا نزل ابن مريم من السماء فيكم

    Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah’s Messenger (PBUH) said “What will be your condition when the son of Mary (i.e. Jesus) descends amongst you from the heavens…?” (Baihaqi’s Asmaa wal Sifaat 2/432 Hadith 855. Classified as Sahih by Shaikh Abdullah bin Muhammad Al-Hashidi)

    Baihaqi (RA) was recognized as a Mujaddid of 4th century A.H. by Ahmadis.

    Hadith 4
    عن أبى هريرة قال سمعت أبا القاسم الصادق المصدوق يقول …ثم ينزل عيسى بن مريم عليه وسلم من السماء فيؤم الناس

    Abu Huraira (RA) said: I heard Abul Qasim the Truthful and Trustworthy (i.e. Holy Prophet PBUH) say: ‘Then Jesus son of Mary will descend from the heavens and lead the people.’
    (Majma’ Al-Zawaid 7/349. Haithmi said, Bazzar has narrated it and all its narrators are those of the Sahih [i.e. Sahih Bukhari] except Ali bin Munzar and he is also trustworthy)

    Hadith 5
    قال ابن عباس : قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم : فعند ذلك ينزل أخي عيسى ابن مريم من السماء

    Ibn Abbas (RA) narrated that the Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said: ‘And near it will descend from the Heavens my brother Jesus son of Mary.’
    (Kanzul Ummal 14/619 Hadith 39726)

    Compiler of Kanzul Ummal, Ali Muttaqi Al-Hindi (RA) was recognized as a Mujaddid of 10th century A.H. byAhmadis.

    Hadith 6
    عن ابن عباس { إن تعذبهم فإنهم عبادك } يقول : عبيدك قد استوجبوا العذاب بمقالتهم { وإن تغفر لهم } أي من تركت منهم ومد في عمره حتى أهبط من السماء إلى الأرض يقتل الدجال ، فنزلوا عن مقالتهم ووحدوك

    About the verse, ‘If you punish them they are your servants’ Ibn Abbas (RA) said, he [Jesus] will say: ‘These slaves of yours have invited your chastisement by what they said [and believed]’. ‘And if you forgive them’ i.e. ‘those whom I left behind me and those who were there when I came down from the Heavens to Earth to kill Al-Dajjal and they turned back from what they said [i.e. Trinity] and believed in your Oneness…’
    (Durr Manthur 4/27 Under Surah 5 Ayah 118)

    The writer of Durr Manthur, Jalaluddin Suyuti (RA) was recognized as a Mujaddid of 9th century A.H. by Ahmadis.

    The True Call:(Qadianis's Can't Reject These Hadith)

    Now it is incumbent upon Qadianis to accept these Ahadith quoted by people whom they themselves accept as Mujaddidin and to leave the cult and join Muslim Ummah by sticking to its agreed upon belief about physical ascent and descent of Jesus (PBUH).
    وَمَا عَلَيْنَا إِلَّا الْبَلَاغُ الْمُبِينُ
    ‘And our duty is only to convey plainly.’

    INDEED ALLAH KNOWS THE BEST!

    How Muhammad(PBUH) and any other Prophet is Dead?

    People are agreed what happen to Muhammad (PBUH) and other Prophets but the they don't agreed the case of Jesus?

    So as matter of Fact I have proved u from Quran and Hadith

    If u don't accept my fact than you must prove it

    Please show how jesus is dead

    I have the same claim. My grand grand grand father is not dead. He is alive from 400 years and lives between us invisibly.
    There is no way you can prove my statement as false... try it

    Open the grave of ur Grand Father u will see the truth. But if u open the grave of jesus there is no one, All the christian believe and All the muslim believe the grave of JEUSE is Empty. But Qadiani don't believe it

    So qadiani have to prove it

    Posted 3 years ago on 18 Aug 2010 6:04 #
  27. fear

    Fayyaz

    Quran says, 10:46
    وَإِمَّا نُرِيَنَّكَ بَعْضَ الَّذِي نَعِدُهُمْ أَوْ نَتَوَفَّيَنَّكَ فَإِلَيْنَا مَرْجِعُهُمْ ثُمَّ اللّهُ شَهِيدٌ عَلَى مَا يَفْعَلُونَ
    This Ayah is talking about our beloved prophet and here we understand the word tawafee to mean death.

    Now, why would we take a different meaning of this word in the following verse, especially when there is a hadith (quoted below) that reinforces (at least indirectly) its meaning to be death and there is NO hadith that talks about Hazrat Eisa not being dead (I acknowledge there are ahadith about his second coming, but NO hadith about him not being dead that I am aware off)

    مَا قُلْتُ لَهُمْ إِلاَّ مَا أَمَرْتَنِي بِهِ أَنِ اعْبُدُواْ اللّهَ رَبِّي وَرَبَّكُمْ وَكُنتُ عَلَيْهِمْ شَهِيدًا مَّا دُمْتُ فِيهِمْ فَلَمَّا تَوَفَّيْتَنِي كُنتَ أَنتَ الرَّقِيبَ عَلَيْهِمْ وَأَنتَ عَلَى كُلِّ شَيْءٍ شَهِيدٌ
    I have not said to them anything but what You have ordered me to say, that is, _Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord‘ and I was a witness over them as long as I was with them. But when You “tawafee” me, You were the One watching over them. You are a witness over everything.

    Bukhari (may Allah have mercy on him), quoted following hadith in Kitab-Tafseer for this Ayah

    "Allah's Apostle delivered a sermon and said, "O people! You will be gathered before Allah bare-footed, naked and not circumcised." Then (quoting Quran) he said:--
    "As We began the first creation, We shall repeat it. A promise We have undertaken: Truly we shall do it.." (21.104)
    The Prophet then said, "The first of the human beings to be dressed on the Day of Resurrection, will be Abraham. Lo! Some men from my followers will be brought and then (the angels) will drive them to the left side (Hell-Fire). I will say. 'O my Lord! (They are) my companions!' Then a reply will come (from Almighty), 'You do not know what they did after you.' I will say as the pious slave (the Prophet Jesus) said: And I was a witness over them while I dwelt amongst them. When You tawafee me. You were the Watcher over them and You are a Witness to all things.' (5.117) Then it will be said, "These people have continued to be apostates since you left them."

    So again, my question is, why would we take meaning of word tawafee, other than death, in 5-117, while we'll not do that in Ayah 10-46 (as an example), especially in the light of Hadith from Bukhari that is suppose to explain this Ayah, and also given that there is NO hadith that talks about Hazrat Eisa not being dead (I acknowledge there are ahadith about his second coming, but NO hadith about him not being dead that I am aware off)

    U are Qadiani and u don't know how the elder of Qadian are playing with u for more detail please see how the Qadiani are changing the Teaching of Quran. They are changing the meaning to show themselives true

    see the detail

    1- MEANING OF ‘MUTAWAFFEKA‘ & ‘TAWAFFAITANI‘ IN QURAN 3:55 & 5:117.

    Qadianis say that the word mutawaffeeka in Quran 3:55 and tawaffaitani in Quran 5:117 speak of the death of Prophet Jesus (PBUH) and they erroneously translate the verses as;

    “Lo! God said:`O Jesus! Verily I shall cause thee to die, and shall exalt thee unto me…” (3:55)

    “I said to them naught save as Thou didst command me: ‘Serve God, my Lord and your Lord.’; and I was a witness of them so long as I was among them, but when Thou didst cause me to die Thou wast the Watcher over them. And Thou art Witness of all things.’” (5:117)

    But this is wrong. I present the Islamic view point in detail in the following lines;

    Correct Translation:

    Quran 3:55 informs believers that Allah will “take back” Jesus (PBUH), protect him from the unbelievers, and raise him to His presence. Many great Islamic scholars and commentators have interpreted this verse to mean that Jesus (PBUH) did not die. As the verse states:
    إِذْ قَالَ اللَّهُ يَا عِيسَى إِنِّي مُتَوَفِّيكَ وَرَافِعُكَ إِلَيَّ وَمُطَهِّرُكَ مِنَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا وَجَاعِلُ الَّذِينَ اتَّبَعُوكَ فَوْقَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا إِلَى يَوْمِ الْقِيَامَةِ ثُمَّ إِلَيَّ مَرْجِعُكُمْ فَأَحْكُمُ بَيْنَكُمْ فِيمَا كُنْتُمْ فِيهِ تَخْتَلِفُونَ

    “When Allah said: ‘O Isa , I am to take you in full (mutawaffeeka) and to raise you towards Myself, and to cleanse you of those who disbelieve, and to place those who follow you above those who disbelieve up to the Day of Doom. Then to Me is your return, whereupon I shall judge between you in that over which you have differed.’” (3:55)

    The part requiring special consideration is the sentence; “I will take you back (mutawaffeeka) and raise you up to Me.”

    And indeed Quran 5:117 also goes on the same lines.
    مَا قُلْتُ لَهُمْ إِلَّا مَا أَمَرْتَنِي بِهِ أَنِ اعْبُدُوا اللَّهَ رَبِّي وَرَبَّكُمْ وَكُنْتُ عَلَيْهِمْ شَهِيدًا مَا دُمْتُ فِيهِمْ فَلَمَّا تَوَفَّيْتَنِي كُنْتَ أَنْتَ الرَّقِيبَ عَلَيْهِمْ وَأَنْتَ عَلَى كُلِّ شَيْءٍ شَهِيدٌ

    “I have not said to them anything but what You have ordered me to say, that is, ‘Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord‘ and I was a witness over them as long as I was with them. But when You recalled me (tawaffaitani), You were the One watching over them. You are a witness over everything.” (5:117)

    A close examination reveals a most important truth: The verb carries a sense that differs from what is normally meant by “to die.” The word translated into English as “to die” comes from the Arabic root waffaa derived from the verb tawaffaa, which does not imply death, but rather taking the soul, or surrender.

    Meaning of tawaffa:

    1-Linguistically:

    Ibn Taymiyya said:

    التوفى فى لغة العرب معناها القبض والاستيفاء وذالك ثلاثه انواع أحدها التوفى فى النوم والثانى توفى الموت والثالث وتوفى الروح والبدن جميعاٌ

    “Al-tawaffa in the Arabic language means: to exact fully or take in full. It takes three forms; the first: to take in sleep; the second: to take in death; and the third: to take the body and soul all together.” (Al-Jawab Al-Sahih 2/83)

    In Kulliyat Abu Al-Baqa it is stated:
    التوفى الاماته وقبض الروح وعليه استعمال العامه او الاستيفاء واخذ الحق وعليه استعمال البلغاء

    “Tawaffa is putting to death and extracting the soul in common usage while in the classical usage it is ‘taking in full’ and ‘exacting the due right.’”

    2-Quranic usage:

    The Qur’an also reveals that taking a person’s soul does not always imply death. For instance, another verse uses tawaffaa to refer not to a person’s death, but to taking his or her soul while asleep:
    اللَّهُ يَتَوَفَّى الْأَنْفُسَ حِينَ مَوْتِهَا وَالَّتِي لَمْ تَمُتْ فِي مَنَامِهَا فَيُمْسِكُ الَّتِي قَضَى عَلَيْهَا الْمَوْتَ وَيُرْسِلُ الْأُخْرَى إِلَى أَجَلٍ مُسَمًّى إِنَّ فِي ذَلِكَ لَآَيَاتٍ لِقَوْمٍ يَتَفَكَّرُونَ

    “Allah fully takes away (yatawaffaa) the souls (of the people) at the time of their death (mawtiha), and (of) those who do not die (lam tamut), in their sleep. Then He withholds those on whom He had decreed death (al-mawt), and sends others back, up to an appointed term. Surely, in this, there are signs for a people who ponder.” (Quran 39: 42)

    The word here translated as “taking back” is the same as that used in Qur’an 3:55 and 5:117: tawaffaa. Since a person does not actually die during the night, the word yatawaffaa here refers not to death, but to taking the soul at night. If tawaffaa were being used in the sense of death, then that would mean that all people would be biologically dead during sleep. Thus, Jesus (PBUH) would have died every night of his life. Such an assertion is both irrational and illogical.

    3-Explanation from Hadith:

    Another instance in which sleep is regarded as a kind of death, but which does not refer to biological death, is the following Hadith:
    عَنْ حُذَيْفَةَ بْنِ الْيَمَانِ قَالَ كَانَ النَّبِيُّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ إِذَا أَوَى إِلَى فِرَاشِهِ قَالَ بِاسْمِكَ أَمُوتُ وَأَحْيَا وَإِذَا قَامَ قَالَ الْحَمْدُ لِلَّهِ الَّذِي أَحْيَانَا بَعْدَ مَا أَمَاتَنَا وَإِلَيْهِ النُّشُورُ

    Narrated Huzaifa: When the Holy Prophet (PBUH) moved to his bed (to sleep) he would say; ‘All praise is for God, Who has made us alive after He made us die [sleep] (Al-hamdu li Allah illazi ahyana ba’da maa amatana; wa ilayhi al-nushoor).’ (Sahih Bukhari Hadith 5837)

    No doubt, he used these wise words not to refer to biological death when one is asleep, but rather to a sleeping person’s soul being “taken.”

    4-Jesus (PBUH) was given a kind of sleep:

    Ibn Kathir, the famous Islamic scholar and commentator, used this Hadith, along with many other proofs in his commentary on Surah Al’-Imran, to explain that tawaffaa refers to sleep. In addition, he indicated the word’s meaning in other verses where it appears.

    Ibn Kathir gave his opinion using a Hadith handed down by Ibn Abi Hatim: Ibn Abi Hatim says that: “My father told us …
    عن الحسن أنه قال في قوله: { إِنِّي مُتَوَفِّيكَ } يعني وفاة المنام، رفعه الله في منامه

    … from Hassan that the meaning of the verse ‘I will take you back…’ is this: Here it means that ‘I shall kill you with the death of sleep.’ In other words, I shall cause you to sleep.’ So, Allah raised Jesus (PBUH) to the heavens while he was asleep.” (Ibn Kathir 2/47)

    Infact there is a Hadith which clarifies beyond all doubt. It goes as;
    قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم لليهود:”إن عيسَى لم يمتْ، وإنه راجعٌ إليكم قبل يوم القيامة

    Hasan (RA) narrated: “The Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said to the Jews, ‘Jesus has not died, he will return to you before the Doomsday.’” (Al-Tabari H.7133)

    5-Antonym of Hayat (Life) in the Quran?

    Further we know that in the Holy Quran only the word mawt (death) is used in contrast to hayat (life) e.g. See Quran 67:2, 25:3, 2:260, 30:19, 2:164, 16:45, 45:5, 3:49, 42:9. But not even once has the Quran used tawaffa against hayat. This is strong evidence that to the Author of the Quran tawaffa is not the opposite of hayat.

    6-Views of leading learned scholars:

    Islamic scholars agree that mutawaffeeka means that Jesus (PBUH) did not die, but that he was raised to Allah’s presence and will return to Earth. For example;

    Ibn Jarir Al-Tabari, the famous commentator and scholar , stated that mutawaffeeka is used in the sense of “removing from Earth” and interpreted the verse in the following terms: “To me the soundest opinion is to take this word in the sense of ‘to take into one’s possession’, ‘draw (away) from Earth.’ In that case, the meaning of the verse is: ‘I shall take you from Earth and into the heavens.’ [This is] because of the multiple ways it has been narrated from the Messenger of Allah (PBUH) that Jesus son of Mary will descend, kill Anti-Christ (Dajjal)…” (Al-Tabari 3/51)

    The great Islamic scholar Ibn Taymiyya stated that Quran 3:55 indicates that Jesus (PBUH) did not die, but most likely experienced a kind of “sleep death.” He then wrote: “This verse is proof that the death of Jesus (pbuh) is not being referred to… The word al-tawaffa [the infinitive form of the word mutawafeeka used] in the verse requires the death of the soul without that of the body, or of both, but with the existence of another piece of evidence explaining the circumstances in this sense. The meaning may be the death of sleep (as in Qur’an 6:60). The words at the end of the verse, to the effect that: “I shall separate you purified from the unbelievers,” are also along these lines. Had Jesus’ (PBUH) body been separated from his soul, then his body would be in the ground, as with the other prophets.” (Majmu‘Fatawa 4/322-323)

    So in the light of the Quran, Hadith and the views of learned scholars the meaning of mutawaffeeka is ‘to take in full’ i.e. with both body and soul.

    7-Ibn Abbas’s (RA) view on Mutawaffeeka:

    Now coming to the view of the pious Companion Ibn Abbas, we see that many people often quote a saying of him to confuse the whole case. It is quoted in Sahih Bukhari without any chain,
    وَقَالَ ابْنُ عَبَّاسٍ { مُتَوَفِّيكَ } مُمِيتُكَ

    Ibn Abbas (RA) said: “Mutawaffeeka is ‘I’ll cause you to die.’” (Sahih Bukhari 14/149)

    The complete narration along with chain is found in Ibn kathir 2/47, Al-Tabari 6/457, Ibn Abi Hatim 3/14 Hadith 3630.

    But we ought to consider other narrations of Ibn Abbas (RA) to understand his actual position on this issue. The following one clarifies his stand point;
    عن ابن عباس في قوله { إني متوفيك ورافعك } يعني رافعك ثم متوفيك في آخر الزمان

    Narrated Az-Zahaak from Ibn Abbas that the verse ‘Inni Mutawaffeka wa rafiuka‘ means: “I will raise you to myself then I’ll cause you to die near the End of Times.” (Durr Al-Manthur 2/347)

    It is enough to show that even according to Ibn Abbas’ (RA) view Jesus (PBUH) is alive yet and the verse to him refers only to his death in the End of Times after his descent.

    One may say how can the order be changed i.e. how can rafa (raising) precede tawaffa (death as per Ibn Abbas’ view) while it is mentioned later according to the make up of the sentence. This is no problem as it’s common in Quran that something mentioned later in the sentence precedes what’s mentioned before it. A perfect example is Quran 3:110.
    كُنْتُمْ خَيْرَ أُمَّةٍ أُخْرِجَتْ لِلنَّاسِ تَأْمُرُونَ بِالْمَعْرُوفِ وَتَنْهَوْنَ عَنِ الْمُنْكَرِ وَتُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللَّهِ

    “You are the best of the nations raised up for (the benefit of) men; you enjoin what is right and forbid the wrong and believe in Allah.”

    One can see that belief in Allah comes first but its mentioned after the mention of enjoining what is right and forbidding the wrong.

    Ibn Abbas (RA) believed in the physical ascension of Prophet Jesus (PBUH). This fact also refutes any notion of attributing Jesus’ (PBUH) death to him.
    عن ابن عباس قال: لما أراد الله أن يرفع عيسى إلى السماء خرج على أصحابه …ورفع عيسى من رَوْزَنَة في البيت إلى السماء

    Ibn Abbas said, “When Allah intended to raise Jesus (PBUH) to the heavens, he went to his companions,…Jesus (PBUH) ascended to heaven through an opening in the top of the house.”
    (Ibn Abi Hatim 4/431 Hadith 6266, Ibn Kathir 2/449. Ibn Kathir called it Sahih)

    This detail is enough to maintain that even the opinion of Ibn Abbas (RA) in essence goes with the established opinion of other Sahaba and later Muslim generations.

    And it’ll be nothing less than sham and hypocrisy to take one narration of a person and reject the other for no reason.

    Posted 3 years ago on 18 Aug 2010 6:11 #
  28. @SS

    Open the grave of ur Grand Father u will see the truth. But if u open the grave of jesus there is no one, All the christian believe and All the muslim believe the grave of JEUSE is Empty. But Qadiani don't believe it

    My grand grand grand father was vanished somewhere. There is no grave of him. He is alive and lives invisibly between us.

    Posted 3 years ago on 18 Aug 2010 18:23 #
  29. Humanity

    Mutawaffi................has been used in 25 different places in the quran and in no less than 23 of them it means to take away the SOUL AT THE TIME OF DEATH.........Only two places the meaning is to take away the soul at the time of sleep-------BUT here the qualifying word 'SLEEP'...or 'NIGHT'...HAS BEEN ADDED........

    Posted 3 years ago on 19 Aug 2010 7:28 #
  30. @SS If someone can mimic a 'miracle' than it is not a miracle. In Quran Allah told about 2 (counting could be wrong) miracles with a challenge for everyone to try to do the same. One is about life with a challenge to create even a small mosquito and another is about Quran with a challenge to do the same.

    Also in many verses Allah said that He did not go against His rules/verses.

    Misinterpretaions + mystic mind take the simple natural thing as totally different.

    What is the meaning of this sentence of Super Soldier?
    "Please don't poison the air with HNO3. Talk with source".

    I got a msg today "Dostoo yeh video Nepal ki aik masjid ki hay jahan per menaar k uper k hisay ko laganay k lia krain mangwai ja rahi thi tu wahan per mojood non muslims nay kaha k Allah ka ghar hay Allah ko kaho yeh uper rakh dien tu imam sahab nay khawab mein diekha ka Hazrat Muhamad (S.A.W.W) ki ziarat howi or unhoon nay kaha k gumbad per white kapra daal doo subha aisa karnay per kia howa yeh video diekhien."

    Posted 3 years ago on 20 Aug 2010 0:52 #
  31. fayyaz214

    SS, thanks for a very detailed response. I am reading it and absorbing it, will respond over the weekend when I have sometime.

    Posted 3 years ago on 20 Aug 2010 2:54 #
  32. fear

    @SS If someone can mimic a 'miracle' than it is not a miracle. In Quran Allah told about 2 (counting could be wrong) miracles with a challenge for everyone to try to do the same. One is about life with a challenge to create even a small mosquito and another is about Quran with a challenge to do the same.

    Also in many verses Allah said that He did not go against His rules/verses.

    Misinterpretaions + mystic mind take the simple natural thing as totally different.

    Quran is itself a Miracle and Jesus didn't die naturally is aslo Miracle and also a test for those who believe in the Powers of Allah.

    Can u please tell me if u are not Qadiani than why u believe what Qadiani Believes. WHy u underestimate the powers of Allah and why u reject the Hadith of Rasool about Jesus

    I got a msg today "Dostoo yeh video Nepal ki aik masjid ki hay jahan per menaar k uper k hisay ko laganay k lia krain mangwai ja rahi thi tu wahan per mojood non muslims nay kaha k Allah ka ghar hay Allah ko kaho yeh uper rakh dien tu imam sahab nay khawab mein diekha ka Hazrat Muhamad (S.A.W.W) ki ziarat howi or unhoon nay kaha k gumbad per white kapra daal doo subha aisa karnay per kia howa yeh video diekhien."

    Suppose a few days later that u will get a messege that the whole world is going to destroy in 2015

    Will u believe in the Messege????

    Posted 3 years ago on 20 Aug 2010 6:06 #
  33. Not Possible

    How can you possibly say there are no miracles in Islam? Have you even read the Quran? Have you not seen how Allah in Quran has described the miracles he granted to his Ambia? If the word of Allah and Quran is not enough for you what is?

    The miracles of Hazrat Ibrahim, Hazrat Nooh, Hazrat Moosa, Hazrat Essa, Rasool Allah(SAW) are all described there. Those who believe Hazrat Essa (Muslims call him that) died a natural death are not muslim, they are not even Christians but they are Jews. So this topic can only be instilled as another Zionist propaganda amongst Our midst.

    The miracle of ashab-e-kaif, Hazrat Essa being lifted to heavens its all in the Quran. Badar was a miracle, splitting of the moon was a miracle but above all Miraj and Islam,Itself are the biggest miracles of Allah and his Rasool Allah(SAW).

    Though rare the miracles of the mystical nature still occur but the miracles are due to the power of faith, belief and human mental strength. I need no mystical miracles to prove Islam to myself, for me life itself is the miracle of Allah, I see miracles is our daily affairs of life, in how human beings, the good ones, treat each other, the evolution of men, our progress sciences and technology... of how much we have achieved with our minds, of feats that we accomplish now that would have only been seen miracles in the past …that,,, that very human achievement is a miracle for me. .

    Mystical miracles were for humans of a less evolved age from the time where the rising of the sun used to mystify him. It doesn’t mystify anymore but its still a miracle in all the science we know. I see miracles all around me. Problem is your are not looking hard enough or your looking too hard, or you’re looking for the wrong kind of miracles. Evolve to the level humanity has and you will understand the miracles of this age.

    Posted 3 years ago on 20 Aug 2010 14:12 #
  34. @ Not Possible

    Very well said, had they ever bothered to read the Holy Quran they wouldn't have denied the miracles in Islam, as you've rightly said Quran is filled with the description of miracles that occurred through earlier prophets and even Quran in itself is a miracle. These people seem to be infected by Sir Syed virus, which seems pretty incurable.

    Posted 3 years ago on 20 Aug 2010 20:59 #
  35. I don't know about Qadiyanis beliefs. Only thing i know about them is they take ghulam qadiyani as their prohpet. Qadiani himself claimed that he is the one who you are waiting for (Jesus), why qadianis have such a natural belief i don't know.

    Another wonderful thing, i was watching some youtube videos. Someone commented that they (qadianis) use a lot less abusive language then other people. Than i saw it myself in some forums and comments on youtube. Still wondering why while every one tells about the abusive language of qadiyani.

    @fyaaz
    These are my questions
    If (Hazrat Eesa) was to born as a miracle
    Why there is a mother involved in His birth?
    Why he grew up and become aged just like everyone else?
    If that birth was a "virgin birth" what about other Prohpets including Muhammad. They all married and born normally. Were they less then Hazrat Eesa (adding word virgin to his birth has such meaning)?

    Posted 3 years ago on 20 Aug 2010 22:05 #
  36. @ H20

    Are you a Muslim?

    Posted 3 years ago on 20 Aug 2010 22:10 #
  37. Are you?

    Posted 3 years ago on 21 Aug 2010 13:14 #
  38. @ H20

    Yes, Alhamdulilah I am...

    Posted 3 years ago on 21 Aug 2010 13:37 #
  39. UmeR, Not Possible called LifeH20 a non Muslim, non Christian Zionist. What more do we need to know?

    Posted 3 years ago on 21 Aug 2010 22:43 #
  40. Humanity

    The controversy is abt two words in general........Muttawafeeka and Rafa.........

    The same word Rafa has been used fr Isa(as) and Idris (as)(surey Maryam)...wen u assume Isa(as) to b taken up in the sky bcos Allah has used the word RAFA fr him.........then is Idris(as)also in the sky...??

    Posted 3 years ago on 22 Aug 2010 7:55 #
  41. Humanity

    Mutawaffi is derived from TAWAFFA
    Tawwafa ....Allahu Zaidan i.e. GOD TOOK AWAY THE SOUL OF ZAID...i.e. HE CAUSED HIM TO DIE.

    Wen God is the subject and human being the object,

    TAWAFFA has no other meaning than that of taking away the soul wether in sleep or death.......

    All Arabic lexicographers agrees tht 'TAWAFFA' if used in the afore said manner has no other interpretation....

    All outstanding scholars like 1,,Ibn Abbas
    2.Imam Malik....3..Imam Bukhari...4...Imam Ibn Hazm.5...Imam Ibn Qayyim...6.Qatadah.7......Wahab

    and others are of the same view( Bukhari cahpter on tafsir--Bukhari ch. on bad'al -khalkh--Bihar-Al-Muhalla-Ma'ad p.19--manthur2--kathir)..

    Mutawaffi..has been used in 25 different places in the quran and in no less than 23 of them it means to take away the SOUL AT THE TIME OF DEATH.........

    Only two places the meaning is to take away the soul at the time of sleep-------BUT here the qualifying word 'SLEEP'...or 'NIGHT'...HAS BEEN ADDED........
    Only in 6:60...and 39:42........the word means to take away soul while sleeping...........

    Posted 3 years ago on 22 Aug 2010 8:34 #
  42. fayyaz214

    My dear SS,
    I never argued that word mutafee is not used for meanings other than death. My question was following

    “So again, my question is, why would we take meaning of word tawafee, other than death, in 5-117, while we'll not do that in Ayah 10-46 (as an example), especially in the light of Hadith from Bukhari that is suppose to explain this Ayah, and also given that there is NO hadith that talks about Hazrat Eisa not being dead (I acknowledge there are ahadith about his second coming, but NO hadith about him not being dead that I am aware off)”

    If I paraphrase the information that you shared .. I think you are saying that we’ll take a different meaning of word mutafee in verse 5-117 because of following two reasons

    1: Because of following two ahadith

    "Ibn Kathir gave his opinion using a Hadith handed down by Ibn Abi Hatim: Ibn Abi Hatim says that: “My father told us …
    عن الحسن أنه قال في قوله: { إِنِّي مُتَوَفِّيكَ } يعني وفاة المنام، رفعه الله في منامه
    … from Hassan that the meaning of the verse ‘I will take you back…’ is this: Here it means that ‘I shall kill you with the death of sleep.’ In other words, I shall cause you to sleep.’ So, Allah raised Jesus (PBUH) to the heavens while he was asleep.” (Ibn Kathir 2/47)

    Infact there is a Hadith which clarifies beyond all doubt. It goes as;
    قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم لليهود:”إن عيسَى لم يمتْ، وإنه راجعٌ إليكم قبل يوم القيامة
    Hasan (RA) narrated: “The Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said to the Jews, ‘Jesus has not died, he will return to you before the Doomsday.’” (Al-Tabari H.7133)"

    2: Because that is how some of our scholars understood it.

    Before I share my thoughts on this, I just want to confirm, did I understand your argument correctly?

    Posted 3 years ago on 22 Aug 2010 17:00 #
  43. fear

    My Fried Fayyaz

    The point which is i want to prove is that on the basis of these ayah u can't say that Jesus is dead???.

    Before I share my thoughts on this, I just want to confirm, did I understand your argument correctly?

    Yes continue please!

    Posted 3 years ago on 23 Aug 2010 7:37 #
  44. fayyaz214

    and the reason I cannot say that Hazrat Eisa is dead, is point number 1 and 2 in my above posting .. right? or is there another point as well?

    Posted 3 years ago on 23 Aug 2010 16:42 #
  45. My grand grand grand father was vanished somewhere 400 years ago. He is still alive and lives between us invisibly. :)

    Posted 3 years ago on 23 Aug 2010 21:08 #
  46. fear

    and the reason I cannot say that Hazrat Eisa is dead,

    Simple

    You agreed that meaning of (مُتَوَفِّيكَ)is not death at all
    this word is used for different meanings.
    see you quote

    I never argued that word mutafee is not used for meanings other than death.

    So u cant say that مُتَوَفِّيكَ prove that Jesus (PBUH) and

    10-46 (as an example), especially in the light of Hadith from Bukhari that is suppose to explain this Ayah,

    See the translation of 10-46

    Yusuf Ali
    Whether We show thee (realised in thy life-time) some part of what We promise them,- or We take thy soul (to Our Mercy) (Before that),- in any case, to Us is their return: ultimately Allah is witness, to all that they do.

    Pickthall
    Whether We let thee (O Muhammad) behold something of that which We promise them or (whether We) cause thee to die, still unto Us is their return, and Allah, moreover, is Witness over what they do.

    This ayah show different people have use different translation of مُتَوَفِّيكَ

    but as we know that Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him will not return again in this world, So its Jesus (PBUH) who will return and if jesus is dead than dead people can't return. It's against the sunnat of Allah.

    Can u give me only one example in which a dead man return to the world.

    SEe my freind

    =========================================

    LIFE FeO8H4P2 (iron(II) dihydrogen phosphate)

    Your grand grand grand father is myth. Jesus (PBUH) was not a myth he was great messenger of Allah, Why u are comparing the myth of ur grand father with Jesus (PBUH)

    Posted 3 years ago on 24 Aug 2010 6:19 #
  47. Your grand grand grand father is myth.

    No, it is a fact.

    Posted 3 years ago on 24 Aug 2010 18:37 #
  48. @Umer @Mirza Ghalib @Not Possible
    How you people will prove that you are a Muslim? I can say you all Munaafiq. What then?

    Posted 3 years ago on 24 Aug 2010 20:37 #
  49. barackosama

    Obviously he did not die:

    [4:157] And for claiming that they killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of GOD. In fact, they never killed him, they never crucified him - they were made to think that they did. All factions who are disputing in this matter are full of doubt concerning this issue. They possess no knowledge; they only conjecture. For certain, they never killed him.

    [4:158] Instead, GOD raised him to Him; GOD is Almighty, Most Wise.

    As per hadith he will come back, die and the Muslims would pray over him janaza. (Sahe Sitta)

    He will be buried next to Prophet SAW. (Musnad Ayesha)

    Posted 3 years ago on 24 Aug 2010 23:22 #
  50. Not Possible

    @ LifeH2O

    buddy you dont reason, you talk nonsesnse, you are like a very immature kid or a mentaly disabled person because you lack the common snese to make rational arguments. i mean its like you dont have a fully developed mind. So why would it matter what you think...because you think very little as it is. No Offense!

    Posted 3 years ago on 25 Aug 2010 1:26 #
  51. LifeH2O said:

    @Umer @Mirza Ghalib @Not Possible
    How you people will prove that you are a Muslim? I can say you all Munaafiq. What then?

    Well say whatever you want to. And we do not even have to 'prove' anything to you or against you, as the one who shies away from answering if he is a Muslim or not, is obviously a Munafiq.

    http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/jesusas-died-natural-death/page/2#post-171029

    Posted 3 years ago on 25 Aug 2010 1:30 #
  52. @NP

    No Offense!

    WOW! You have started going personal in all my threads and posts. I have seen your labeling style (saying zionist agent mostly) in other threads also (thanks GOD i was thinking that i am the only victim). Anyway it is not my concern what you are doing elsewhere.

    @UmeR
    I am a Muslim for myself, my faith is not for you. Also i don't care if you are a Muslim or not. I am not allergic to non-muslims.

    Posted 3 years ago on 25 Aug 2010 4:42 #
  53. Not Possible

    LifeH2O

    I apologise, I misunderstood you and have been harsh!

    Posted 3 years ago on 25 Aug 2010 13:17 #
  54. Indeed, I have not only been harsh, I have been unjust. I abjectly apologise to you LifeH20. It will not occur again. Please to forgive.

    Posted 3 years ago on 25 Aug 2010 15:13 #
  55. @ LifeH2O

    Your hesitation in telling me if you're a Muslim or not, led me to suspicion regarding you. But if you say you're a Muslim, I have no reason to believe otherwise. Unless off course if you say something that contradicts the fundamental principles of Islam. t/c

    Posted 3 years ago on 25 Aug 2010 20:05 #
  56. @Not Possible @Mirza Ghalib @Umer
    No problem. My request to all of you is that please stop labeling. When someone asks you a question you should have no problem with his identity. You have been asked a question, if you know the answer, answer, ignore otherwise. No one forces you to answer a question.

    Posted 3 years ago on 27 Aug 2010 18:00 #
  57. ^ Have some H2O and calm down

    Posted 3 years ago on 27 Aug 2010 22:32 #
  58. @Umer :) very good advice :-p

    Posted 3 years ago on 28 Aug 2010 11:56 #
  59. hariskhan

    Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    Video: Misconception about death of Maseeh Essa Ibn a Mariam AS
    Quran: Surah 004-AN-NISAA - Ayah # 155-159

    06-September-2010
    --------------------------------------------------------

    Posted 3 years ago on 23 Sep 2010 13:38 #
  60. kashifqdn

    Salaam
    Jesus a.s is dead and it is proved by bible and quran see here all proves
    http://www.deathofjesus.tk

    Posted 1 year ago on 08 Sep 2012 3:26 #

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