JIHAD IN 2009! « PKPolitics Discuss

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JIHAD IN 2009!

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KHAN_Sahib
Member

Just a SIMPLE, STRAIGHT FORWARD QUESTION FROM YOU AND ALL OTHERS!
1. DO U BELIEVE IN JIHAD? (No Explanation, JUST YES or NO)

2. IF a certain muslim country has been invaded by a non muslim country and they are killing them, raping their women and draining their resources, will you say that calling for JIHAD is Rite in these circumstances! And if you say "YES" then who has the rite to call or announce for JIHAD and if once JIHAD is called for, will be it Fard if you are the neibouring country or region?

I would be interested to find the views of all the members of this board. Please Don't try to explain for the first Question.. Just Simple YES or NO (And I am talking by JIHAD as per Quran, so not nazroun ka Jihad ya Zaban ka jihad ya qalam ka Jihad... Jihad fee sabeel lilah) For 2nd question you can give reasons or discuss..
Also no highjacking of the topic! Stick to the topic rather then blaming PPP,MQM,JI,ANP,PTI please!

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Jun 2009 15:33 #
Oriel
Member

1. YES

2. YES, calling for Jihad is right in the circumstances you have outlined. Ameer of Ummat has the right to call............ most naff situation is Muslims have no Ameer, no ijtihad, no unity therefore groups, firka-bandi, misguidance, de-railing of scripture, deviation in the name of Islam and sheep-like mentality of blind followers of those calling for Jihad.

Hence one spaghetti junction mess!

But YES, if Jihad is called for your above stated reasons and Muslims had unity, it would be fard on neighbouring areas to be involved in this Jihad.

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Jun 2009 15:39 #
KHAN_Sahib
Member

So my second situation can be applied in Iraq, Afghanistan !
So Wat are we waiting for?

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Jun 2009 15:40 #
Oriel
Member

WE are waiting for someone else to do the fighting for US, so that WE can reap the benefits form minimum of effort from those that still have some dard-e-dil for fellow Muslims.

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Jun 2009 15:43 #
Oriel
Member

Muslims as a collective whole are in a state of decay.

We need to:

1. begin to open our eyes to our reality.
2. understand our weaknesses and work to correct them.
3. be in a position to make a counter-attack
4. fight Jihad with heads as well as braun.

We have non-of the above. Only jazba. Jazba alone will not help us to win any Jihad anywhere.

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Jun 2009 15:46 #
NNL
member

YES
&
Yes

We are sadly making an excuse that we are looking for an Ameer but we including me dont have the galls to stand up and say yes i will be the ameer anyone willing to follow.

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Jun 2009 15:49 #
netengr
blocked

1-Yes

2- If the muslim country attacked by any muslim or non muslim county then we have to know who is on the right side .in Afghanistan case Alqaida started the war with saudi arabia ,wast and USA and taliban government was fully accommodating Alqaida ,before 9/11 there have been attacks and accepted by the groups in Afghanistan ,If afghanistan wanted the war they should have gone for it ,instead f using terrorist tactics ,As a result the USA and NATO attacked them with UN resolution .

One side USA is a "dada " of the world but on the other side these alqaida and taliban with their idelogy took panga with USA .so no one is right ,no one in justified

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Jun 2009 15:49 #
LetsDoIt
Member

Khan

1- Yes

2- According to my knowledge the order of Qital (Jihad) could only be issued by a Islamic state, could not be issued by some individuals or individual groups. Unfortunately we dont even have a single Islamic state though we have lot of muslim states.

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Jun 2009 15:49 #
KHAN_Sahib
Member

lol@oriel... Totally agree!
So when people from Pukhtoonkhwa did that for years against russians.. They were called, "MUJAHIDEEN" and then after 9/11 when US was attacked, just one threat made us "Disown the same Mujahdeens" despite the fact that there was not eve "ONE" single Pukhtoon ayr Afghani directly or indirectly involve in 9/11! But Osama was the name of this game to wage war in this area for very obvious reasons! There is no OIL or GAS in FATA areas...so why USA is so interested to keep his presence or keep under control n check! If you think that USA is doing this to keep a check on Terrorism then all I can do is to "Smile"

North korea, Iran, Sudan, China, Saudi Arab... All of them are supporting either terrorism or JIHADIS or they are making nuclear weapons.... so why not them? Why its so Important that these westeners are so busy in engaging themselves in Afghanistan and FATA? hmmmmmmmmmmm

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Jun 2009 15:52 #
Oriel
Member

@NNL:

No excuses were made regarding need for an Ameer. Was stating the way in which Jihad is meant to be called.

Give me a name of one person that would call to be the Ameer and all Muslims would unite behind him? We are not even at the stage of tolerating each other's views, hence we wouldn't lay down our lives behind a person, right now, collectively as Muslims.

This is one of the reasons we are getting the stuffing beaten out of us in every field.... not only the battle-field.

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Jun 2009 15:54 #
KHAN_Sahib
Member

@netgrr..
IS USA justified in bombing Sudan, afghanistan,iraq,pakistan to stop terrorism? while havin friendly terms with a country who have the maximum number of highjackers (Saudi's) because they have Oil and they supply that Oil to USA on a decrease rate!
So where does this leave the muslims of Sudan, Iraq ,afghanistan and pakistan?
I understand that Afghanis did a BAD thing by hiding Osama!
Why did USA attack sudan and Iraq?
Why FATA?
OSama can't be in all these places?

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Jun 2009 15:56 #
NNL
member

OBL is dead bro

Obama's election campaign promise that he will get OBL got changed in teh last month as he said OBL aint the priority anymore.

The verdict is out

No hangups tere.

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Jun 2009 15:59 #
KHAN_Sahib
Member

Will u follow for a JIHAD call? if you have any one call for jihad?

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Jun 2009 16:01 #
Oriel
Member

@Khan Sahib:

Agreed with your views on Mujahideen.

But it makes little difference who calls who what. What U.S or Western Media label anyone means nothing in reality (reality being what is right and wrong in actuality regardless of 'dirty political games' being played out by various actors).

Those Mujahideen that fought against the Soviets were fighting a Jihad. Those that were using them, funding them and then disowned them after 9/11 are the politicians and matlab-parast that have no understanding of Jihad and its meaning for Muslims..... so take them out of the equation and focus.

U.S wants to keep its check on all areas of political significance. Pak is significant because of Afghanistan - you know there is much un-tapped resources under Afghan soil. As well as keeping its political leash on the S.E Asian area.

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Jun 2009 16:02 #
KHAN_Sahib
Member

No Oriel... Pakistan may have some significance but there is another reason!..
Just think that.. They could have easily disintegrated pakistan by supporting pukhtoons and FATA against Pakistan... this way they would have protected Afganistan from any invasion plus they could have a peaceful aaceess to the resources.. There is something else ! Think hard...

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Jun 2009 16:14 #
NNL
member

Oriel
I m was trying to say the same thing as you said but in different words perhaps wasnt clear.

I agree with u.

@Khan_sahib the same issue comes to light which Oriel has stated that we arent united in any way to accept anyone as a leader.

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Jun 2009 16:21 #
Oriel
Member

@Khan Sahib:

..."Why its so Important that these westeners are so busy in engaging themselves in Afghanistan and FATA?"...

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Jun 2009 16:22 #
KHAN_Sahib
Member

oriel...

Do some research and do some thinking..... Read Quran and read initially its translation... You will then know! But I will tell u in due course.(though u dont have to agree with me)

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Jun 2009 16:25 #
NNL
member

fulfilling some age old prophecies mentioned in the Scriptures and somethign to do with 2012 ?

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Jun 2009 16:25 #
crocodile
Blocked

"the order of Qital (Jihad) could only be issued by a Islamic state, could not be issued by some individuals or individual groups"

I had chosen to keep my mouth shut but this crap needed to be responded.Though I am purely brought up in the babu-folk rank or softy-rank but intellectual resistance I cant help to show.

The thing that you stated is what British Bought Mullah or impressed by them are stating.Sorry to burst your bubble.The "Islamic States" in Afghanistan and Iraq were dissolved so by saying YES as first option you are contradicting yourself.Cause resistance is still goin' on over there which according to your second point can not be valid resistance and hence these individuals and groups should drop their weapons?...:)

Think out of the box my dear and think clear!
One name I would Give ; Jamal-ud-din Afghani,Study him.I am not quite a fan of him but whenever such non-sense would be spitted,I would qoute him....:)

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Jun 2009 16:27 #
Oriel
Member

@Khan Sahib:

You are hinting at what you have said before about the Muslim armies coming from Khasaran to begin the Jihad against the baatil. Quranic ayats on this Jihad such as those in Surah Fatir, Al-Isra and others.

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Jun 2009 16:32 #
usman1423
member

1) yes
2)yes
Jihad is the only answer to the invaders

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Jun 2009 16:33 #
KHAN_Sahib
Member

@letsdoit..
If our Alims are like Maulana Diseal or they won't call for Jihad but u know that , its happening in your neighbouring country... Will u wait for the day of Qayamah for someone to call for Jihad?

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Jun 2009 16:33 #
KHAN_Sahib
Member

@oriel,
you are a fast learner!

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Jun 2009 16:34 #
Oriel
Member

@Khan Sahib:

Student is only as good as his teacher and gifts that Allah bestows.

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Jun 2009 16:36 #
chechen
Member

1) Yes

2) When any Muslim country is attacked and occupied, Jihad becomes fard ain. It is like obligatory prayer. Do you ask any Aalim for permission to go to masjid and perform obligatory prayers? You simply do that. You don't even have to ask permission from your mother.

No scholar - not Abu Haneefa, not Ibn Hambal, (Raheemhumullaah)- says that jihad is not fard Ain upon you when the Muslims are attacked. The modern scholars say that Iraq is jihad, Afghanistan is jihad, Filistine is jihad, Sheeshan is jihad, Kashmir is Jihad and China is jihad. Where do you find your excuse not to fight? If you have imaan you should desire to fight. If you have taqwa you should know that it is an obligation upon you to go in the path of jihad. If you do no agree with a method then do not practice it, but to deny jihad is an obligation is shirk, and to avoid it when it is in front of you is a major sin.

Where is our excuse? Some people do lose their guidance on the battlefield and do that which is haraam, but does the fact that some people pray incorrectly remove the obligation of namaz from your neck?

When you read about the Muslims dying, the tears of our mothers, and the calls of the sisters asking, “Ya Rabb! Where are your lions? Send us your lions to protect us,” what will you tell Allaah Subhanahu wa Ta’alaa?

The best of the Muslims is the one who goes out and leaves his wealth, his family, and all of this dunya for Allaah. The mujahid is he who is willing to leave this dunya for the akhira.

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Jun 2009 16:38 #
crocodile
Blocked

Oriel:"Why its so Important that these westeners are so busy in engaging themselves in Afghanistan and FATA?"

Soviet estimates of Natural reserves in Afghanistan were of Five trillion cubic meter of Gas reserves,Gold reserves,Uranium reserves and much more in hydrocarbon in unexplored region where they couldn't do the explorations.All these explorations were performed before invading Afghanistan.And these reserves are worth (Hundreds) of trillions of dollars.Thats why they were willing to spend every single penny of theirs over there and got bankrupt.The same very reason brought anglo-europeans over there.These trillionss of dollar reserves would give stability to the Anglo-European Economy for centuries and their control over the geo-politics of the world.The businesses that would mushroom in America and Europe would give rise to another cycle of Anglo-European hegemony over the world.

But one problem was there...these rag-tag junkies are creating problems....So all the mullahs,bhangis,kalay-angraiz,Paindas,Sell-outs,turnabouts have to be ordered to open up their mouth and oppose them with their mouth and blood.....:)

Hope that helps..:)

ps.Over that those rag junkies were wanting to establish rule with Islamic law which could transform into khilafa!

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Jun 2009 16:39 #
KHAN_Sahib
Member

:0)
Mujay Laaj away hay!

ALLAH is our LORD and Muhammad PBUH is the best Teacher!

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Jun 2009 16:39 #
KHAN_Sahib
Member

@chech..
No Offence! But If you have so much knowledge about Jihad then why are u not there? Or u r Guftaar kay Ghazi like me too?

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Jun 2009 16:42 #
Oriel
Member

@Chechen:

If you think that fighting and losing yet more Muslim blood will get you victory anywhere in the countries you have sited above you are mistaken.

You and few others are talking about 'Muslim lions'...... you think our lions that fought our Jihads and saved our honours where illiterate, non-practicing, wealth-ridden, duniya-daar, ready to be bought for few thousand dollars, sitting on the internet 'lions' women like me have given birth to today?!?!?!?

Those that fought for Allah, in the way of our Prophet were nothing like the 'lions' we have today......... go and find out what the men were like before, what the women were like that gave birth to them and then call for Jihad...... until then we will keep getting crushed by our non-Muslim wealth providers.

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Jun 2009 16:47 #
crocodile
Blocked

"go and find out what the men were like before"

Yaar merwa na dena!!!!!!!!!....lol

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Jun 2009 16:49 #
chechen
Member

At present I too am guftaar kay Ghazi. There are 44 ways to support Jihad. You can pick what is best for you as per circumstances. I don't have a link to that masterpiece written by a scholar.

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Jun 2009 16:51 #
KHAN_Sahib
Member

tou jayeeen
may abhee atta houn!
Woh Maa Beymar hay, Dawa lanee hay! OR
Yaar Tabeeyat theek nahee hay, raat say harray harray dussst ahe rhain hain!

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Jun 2009 16:52 #
KHAN_Sahib
Member

Mubbarak hoe Chec hen! LOL
App bhee hamree tarha niklay?
Chal Netgrr... tayra joree daar ahe gaya!

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Jun 2009 16:53 #
Oriel
Member

Maro jaa kar kissi sahi asool par. Kyun nahin?!?!?!

Batein kartey ho MARD ban kar. Konsey Mard ho tum sab?!?!?!

Tumharey hi bandey roz peestey hain tumhari hi sarhkon par...

Tumharey hi behnon ki tarah larhkiyan rozaana be-parda hoteen hain tumharey hi mulkon mein....

Tumharey Maaun ki tarah aurtein rozaana apney beyton ko kho deyteen hain khud-kush hamlon pe, larhayon mein....

Allah ne tum jaisey mardon ko yeh sar-zameen de rakhi hai na RAAJ karney ke liye.... sambhalney ke liye......

Baat kartey ho 24/7 mardon wali.....

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Jun 2009 16:55 #
LetsDoIt
Member

KHAN

The term JIHAD is get abused by many scholars who dont even know its true meanings.
There are certain things which are prerequisite for QITAL (I wont call it JIHAD because JIHAD has very vast meanings and QITAl is one of those meanings). You remember SHAHADAT of HAz. Sumiya and Haz. Yasir, and this was just a start after that what Kufar-e-makkah did to the new muslims. At that time many SAHABAS requested the permission of Qital many times but it was denied by Prophet Muhammad PBUH and Allah SWT. We could understand the reason only if we read the history. It was an excellent decision and this was the reason why Muslim survived. The permission of Qital was only granted once the Islamic state was established in Madina.

So JIHAD at this time should be done to establish the Islamic state and believe me that is much more difficult.

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Jun 2009 16:56 #
chechen
Member

Oriel,

There are lions around us if we care to notice them. The struggle continues as it has been for last 300 years in Caucasus mountains- Koh e Qaaz

http://kavkazcenter.net/

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Jun 2009 16:58 #
Oriel
Member

@Chechen:

A lioness will be best able to identify a lion. Not other 'so-called' lions.

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Jun 2009 17:05 #
NNL
member

A lioness will be best able to identify a lion. Not other 'so-called' lions

Brutal, Harsh yet True in a way.

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Jun 2009 17:08 #
chechen
Member

They are the lions alright. Problem seems to be with lioness to recognize its breed.

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Jun 2009 17:08 #
zingaro
Member

Agreed with Jihad.

Please correct me if i am wrong for the history I am gonna write below:

1-When 9/11 happened. The first statement by Bush was that a crusade has started.

2-Four American planes deviated from their original routes and reached to other destination for the purpose of terrorism and US aviation and Air Force could not notice this abnormal deviation.

3-There are hundreds of security planes always in air normally for US defense but none of them helped to prevent twin towers from "kidnapped planes".

5-Despite of having the most sophisticated technology and radar systems, and these "kidnapped planes" traveled for more than half an hour but could not be detected. May be hijackers applied vanishing cream on all planes :).

6-Without any investigation the immediate response came from USA that it is an act by Osama bin Laden.

7-Afghan government was threatened to handover Osama bin Laden to USA.

8-Afghan government demanded the trial in an impartial country and stated that if Osama is proved guilty, he may be punished.

9-USA did not bother to consider any request from the then Afghan government and ultimately attacked on Afghanistan.

10- The same Taliban afghanis were given red carpet welcome (before 9/11) by USA and were honored to have feast in White House.

11-Although USA had all maps of Afghanistan, and used unprecedented weapons, focused satellites, intelligence, Northern alliance, but these two guys Osama bin Laden, and Mulla Omar disappeared and could not be captured or confirmed dead. (i am laughing on it btw)

12-Osama bin Laden was a kidney patient as well and needs frequent treatment but God knows which hospital is giving him such good treatment till day.. (may be in new york).

13-Whenever there was a problem to Bush government a video tape used to emerge from Osama bin Laden cursing Bush and USA. In reality it never helped to Muslim Ummah but always worked very well for US interests.

Should I write more points or the above is sufficient ?

What actually happened with us ??? Shall anyone dare to think about ?

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Jun 2009 17:39 #
semirza
Moderator

Cant stray away from the truth..
1. YES
2. Yes

For those who may find it difficult arriving to a decision or are hesitant this may help:

Touba-o-mey ka merey yahan, her roz tasadum rehta hai
Yeh dhair hain tooti touba kay, anmbar hain wo paimanoon kay

Merey yahan means-the heart

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Jun 2009 17:41 #
zingaro
Member

well said semirza...

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Jun 2009 17:54 #
NNL
member

arey Seculars kahan ho kidhar ghayab ho.

Lagta hai
Noorani Mulla ji koi special conference kar rahe hain.

Seculars ki sooch (Ek idea hai)
Sab ek hi sooch mein mubtelah hain keh yeh log kis miti ke banay hain. for the last 2-3 yrs we have bee blasting them with all the negatives of Jihad and fundamental Islam on how worse it is and yet half of these nutjobs came out and said sorry cant stay away from the truth. and accepted Jihad.

Lol

Subhan Hai Teri Kudrat Ya Rab.

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Jun 2009 18:00 #
KHAN_Sahib
Member

Hmm...
Its good to see that despite all differences we do agree on something! Well Done!

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Jun 2009 18:53 #
chechen
Member

Zingaro, More on 9/11

Hundreds of thousands of Muslims massacred and two countries destroyed on false pretext- WMD and Taliban hillbillies. Below is an excerpt from Dr. Muzaffar Iqbal.

9/11 investigation are centered on Why it was allowed to happen rather than Who did that.

Whatever it was, for now 11 September 2001 stands as a watershed between the low intensity invasion of the so called 3rd world of the post-Soviet era and the present intensive and full scale war that has so far conquered two wretched countries and subjugated numerous others without a fight.
Afghanistan was more or less a trial run. Other than the blind fury and raw rage, there was nothing behind the wanton destruction of this ravaged land. Its most significant function proved to be the building of a war engine to provide a magic word for creating the most sinister label in recent
history: Al-Qaeda.
Since this word was invented, framed in a context and spun around a story, it has become a magic wand applicable to numerous situations. From Madrid to Bagdad and from Casablanca to Jakarta, anyone who is stuck with this label, stands guilty, ipso facto. No further investigation is needed. The general public is satisfied merely by the application of this label and the accused is lumbered with a verdict of guilty. This is perhaps the most criminal and brazen act of the aggressors, who have used the full force of their media to propagate this label worldwide.

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Jun 2009 20:30 #
chechen
Member

9/11 fraud, David Ray Griffin

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Jun 2009 20:35 #
Heather_Ali
Member

Chechen,
Don't sweat ! Every one knows about 9/11 and its Players.
We all kindda agree about Jihad but why is that,only one ethnic group went mainly for Jihad (In Kashmir,Afghanistan) and the rest of Pakistan was busy watching ZEE TV ?
and then after the same 9/11 those people are considered terrorists? what an Irony.

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Jun 2009 21:25 #
chechen
Member

There was not one ethnic group. May be from the sub continent but there were thousands of other fighters who obeyed the call for Jihad.

I saw hundreds of them in shalwar qameez at MidEastern airports but when I approached then they were Arabic speaking. There was full understanding between various players from US to Saudi Arabia. The godless communists have invaded Afghanistan and they need to be taught a lesson. US got a chance to save trillions of dollars that were earmarked for defense- Strategic Defense Initiative-SDI, Star wars and all high tech gadget defense programs. All were meant to thwart red menace-communists. The NATO and US military budget for trillion dollar programs was essentially geared for stopping the red menace since world war II. They fooled the world for 50 years to demonize communists. They got a golden opportunity in inciting young jihadi recruits. Thousands were patted on their backs and Reagan went onto invite them to Whitehouse as "freedom fighters". It was oridinary Mujahideen and Afghan civilians that bore the brunt of savage Soviet bombings that oblitereted the poor country. Moe than 2 million were shaheed including thousands of "foreign fighters" and then US, NATO got the dividend and saved trillions of dollars in defense. The US, NATO armies watched and enjoyed as spectators when Mujahideen routed the red army. Ever since that moment, plans were already on drawing boards to turn the freedom fighters aka Mujahideen overnight into terrorists. Then came the 9/11 and yesterday's freedom fighters are suddenly turned into bloodthirsty terrorists.

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Jun 2009 21:59 #
NNL
member

waisay when does the list of emails of people who agreed is gonna be handed over to the FBI as potential terror suspects ?

Just thinking out loud

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Jun 2009 22:40 #