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Khilafah and its illustrious Golden Age

(81 posts)
  1. Revivalist
    member

    The Islamic Khilafah and its illustrious Golden Age

    The call for the Islamic Khilafah is growing in momentum the world over as each day passes by. From North Africa to Far East, Europe to Central Asia, Muslims are working tirelessly to restore the Khilafah. This has been recognised even by the western colonial powers and their puppet slaves who illegitimately rule the Muslim world today. In a major speech, delivered on 5th September 2006 to US military officers and US diplomats, George W Bush attempted to mislead the world about what the forthcoming Khilafah will look like in the 21st century. Bush sought to bolster support from the western world for the infamous "war on terror" and his speech was thus unsurprisingly littered with venomous propaganda and lies. Following the footsteps of his Crusader ancestors like Pope Urban II, Bush falsely declared that Muslims who want to regain their political destiny by restoring the Khilafah wish to,
    "...establish a violent political utopia across the Middle East, which they call Khilafah, where all would be ruled according to their hateful ideology... This Khilafah would be a totalitarian Islamic empire encompassing all current and former Muslim lands, stretching from Europe to North Africa, the Middle East and Southeast Asia".[1]
    What Bush described as a "totalitarian empire" was in fact the leading civilisation that led the world in every known field. This article seeks to illustrate some of the great achievements of the Khilafah in the early Abbasid period, commonly referred to as the Golden Age. Due to its limited scope, this article adopts a thematic approach and therefore only examines the following aspects: life in the cities; economy, trade and industry; education, science and intellectual progression; life of non-Muslims and da'wah; and politics and governance.
    Life in the cities of the Khilafah
    The Abbasid period ushered in an era of city and infrastructure building, including markets, trade centres, roads and water systems, as large numbers of people settled in these thriving city centres. By the 9th and 10th centuries, a traveller who had travelled widely could differentiate the Islamic world from other parts of the world. This distinction was enabled by the magnificent architecture and buildings the Khilafah had constructed. Whether in Islamic Spain or Iraq, the common architectural features appeared unmistakably distinctive to any observer.
    Cities such as Alexandria, Jerusalem, Damascus, and Aleppo, in addition to many of the eastern cities like Samarkand were established prior to the rise of Islam. However, the intellectual strength of Islam and its culture meant that the populations in these cities did not resist Islam and soon adopted its values and culture. As Matthew Gordon writes, "The Arab armies avoided these cities at first, but over time, the integration of Arab populations, and the adoption of Islam and Arab culture by long-established populations, transformed the older cities".[2]
    The history of Baghdad is absolutely fascinating. Built around 762 (CE) by the Abbasid Caliph al-Mansur (754 - 75), it housed the Abbasid rulers and was known as Madinat al-Salam (the City of Peace). By the 10th century and beyond it became the "premier commercial and cultural" centre within the Islamic world.[3] Baghdad under the Abbasid Khilafah is comparable to present day cities like London and New York because of its global significance at the time.
    The famous Muslim historian Muhammad al-Tabari narrated in his book, Tarikh that when Caliph al-Mansur had decided to build the capital of the Khilafah in Baghdad, he laid the first brick himself saying, "In the name of Allah, and to praise Him. The earth is Allah's; he causes to inherit of it whom He wills among His servants, and the result thereof is to them that fear Him". He then said to the workmen "Build and [may] Allah bless you".[4] Contrast this Caliph's humbleness and gratitude to Allah despite his grandeur and power to the present day rulers' arrogance and ungodliness and one easily appreciates the qualities of these great Islamic personalities.
    Major Islamic cities such as Cairo, Baghdad, Cordoba and Fez were well developed at a time when European cities were not even a comparison. During the Abbasid era Baghdad had an estimated population of 840,000, Cairo had 300,000 - 450,000 and other smaller Islamic cities had around 10,000 - 20,000 inhabitants. In contrast, Paris had an estimated population of 210,000, London had 40,000 and Venice had 180,000.[5] Therefore, Baghdad's population was clearly larger than the population of several of the European cities combined together.
    In addition to the Khilafah's advancement, the citizens of the Khilafah enjoyed a high living standard. Bloom and Blair illustrate the high living standard of the citizens of the Khilafah, whether Muslims or non-Muslims, "In the Islamic lands, not only Muslims but also Christians and Jews enjoyed a good life. They dressed in fine clothing, had fine houses in splendid cities serviced by paved streets, running water and sewers, and dined on spiced delicacies served on Chinese porcelains".[6]
    People's standard of living in Cairo is visualised by the following narrative written by a Persian spy in the 11th century. The spy's narrative describes the spacious houses the people in Cairo enjoyed at the time and the wide number of shops that existed in Cairo alone, that he estimated to be around 20,000.
    "In the midst of the houses in New Cairo are gardens and orchards watered by wells. In the sultan's harem are the most beautiful gardens imaginable. Waterwheels have been constructed to irrigate these gardens. There are trees planted and pleasure parks built even on roofs... These houses are so magnificent and fine that you would think that they were made of jewel..."[7]
    It is evident that people had comfortable living conditions under the Khilafah in cities that were not just larger than London or Paris but also far exceeded in terms of material progression. When the Crusaders attacked the holy land the lifestyle, which the people in the holy land were enjoying, made the Crusaders rather unsurprisingly envious and resentful. "The rough-and-tumble Crusaders were knocked off their feet by the luxuries they found for sale in the Near Eastern bazaars".[8]
    Economy, trade and industry
    As Islam's intellectual, political, economic and military strength grew stronger, it triggered an inevitable demise of the nearby Sasanid and Byzantine empires and eventually they collapsed at the hands of the Khilafah. The Khilafah, covering a massive geographical territory, offered its citizens the opportunity of unfettered travel and trade, which resulted in considerable prosperity in all fields of life. During this period the growth in agriculture added to the commercial boom. Rice and sugarcane, mainly found in India, were transported through Iran to the Mediterranean region where they were deemed to be luxury commodities. In addition, various fruits such as oranges, apricots, mulberries and bananas were introduced in the region at the time. Various spices, precious stones, fine and luxurious cloth and porcelain came from India and China.
    However, Muslims did not just import goods for consumption but also exported finished goods. Whilst the European industrial revolution may have triggered the practice of mass production, Muslims had produced goods such as military armaments, sugar, paper, fine textiles etc in large scales for export a thousand years earlier.
    The textile industry was of huge importance to the Islamic economy. The four main fibres - wool, silk, cotton and linen - were very widely produced by farmers in the region. The textile industry was as important as the automobile industry in the west today. Other successful industries included metalworking, glassblowing, and pottery. Gordon write that this "...growth of regional and trans-regional trade, and of urban manufacturing, produced new level of prosperity across the city landscape".[9]
    Due to this vibrant economy, an internationally recognised monetary system based on the gold and silver standard had developed. "The Abbasid gold dinar remained an instrument of exchange for centuries..."[10] This economic system was not merely based upon primitive coinage; Muslims had also developed a credit issuing system comparable to the modern system of cheque, which was used by traders travelling across the globe. These letters of credit would not have been acceptable to traders in parts of the world unless there was an established economic system. This was also made possible partly by the fact that the Khilafah was expanding over vast territories whose populations were also becoming Muslim.
    It is narrated that when Caliph Harun al-Rashid died in 808 CE, his treasury department had 900 million gold dinars in surplus cash.[11] Unlike the worthless paper currencies of the 21st century, the Abbasid gold dinar had in intrinsic value. Therefore, this astounding sum of money in any nation at that time would have made it a very wealthy nation indeed. This material wealth of the Abbasid Khilafah was a direct result of the Islamic economic system.
    Education, science and intellectual progression
    The growth in trade and the general prosperity directly contributed to the rise and proliferation of Islamic culture and learning internally and led to its promotion externally to other peoples. The urban wealthy Muslim traders understood the purpose of life and hence extended their support to scholars and artisans alike. These early Muslims made a concerted effort to strengthen the culture and values of Islam in their societies.
    As the Caliphs governed an ever-growing state, they did not shy away from embracing science and technology to aid their governance. The Khilafah needed scientists and mathematicians to assist in matters such as keeping accurate records of revenue collection or survey of lands. The bureaucrats made use of the available knowledge even if they were from Indian, Persian or Greek scientists at the time.
    However, Muslims scientists or mathematicians neither dogmatically accepted the available contemporary scientific knowledge, nor did they reject it because they came from the Greeks or the Persians. Instead, Muslim scientists conducted their own empirical research and experiments to assess the strength of scientific theories available at the time and, "thereby initiating a new era of scientific inquiry".[12] They challenged fundamental Greek scientific theories and often offered refutations based on their improved research findings.
    Therefore, Muslim scientists introduced a revolutionary new method of progressing knowledge, a method that is valid to this day. They focused on the scientific methods and instruments used for experiments and their reasoning qualities to elicit impressive results.
    By the 8th century, there was a flourishing paper industry in Islamic world, which facilitated the growth of scholarship and wide availability of books. In addition to religious knowledge, expertise in various scientific fields was actively promoted. Wealthy families, including from the Abbasid household, funded research in scientific scholarships.
    Muslims started the translation movement, which translated into Arabic works in other languages such as Greek, Persian and Indian in order to progress scientific knowledge. This was a well-funded movement, receiving funds from across society. People of all religious background participated in this search for knowledge in fields such as philosophy, medicine and astronomy. Amongst many pioneering scholars was Muhammad ibn Musa al-Khwarizmi. His work on astronomy was the standard work for many centuries whilst his book Kitab al-Jabr was the first work of algebra (the name "algebra" originated from the title of this book).
    The Bayt al-Hikma (House of Knowledge) library in Baghdad, founded by Caliph Harun al-Rashid, by the end of 9th century housed Arabic translation of all the major works of Persian and Indian geography and science. Moreover, the Al-Azhar University in Egypt, which was the first of its kind in the world, was founded in 970. Whilst education and learning may not have been universal, it was certainly very common under the Khilafah. The general masses could read and write; but at the very least they could read. Bloom and Blair argue, "the general level of literacy was greater in the medieval Islamic lands than in Byzantium or western Europe. Writing was found everywhere in this culture..."[13]
    The Khilafah invested heavily in the nation's education and scientific research and development. Higher education institutions (madrasa) were established by the 11th century in all major cities. The curriculum included Islamic sciences such as studies about the Qur'an and hadith, in addition to natural sciences such as mathematics, medicine, geometry, astronomy, philosophy and literary arts such as Arabic language and grammar. A graduate from such a madrasa was well equipped to enter diverse career paths including teaching, scholarship and legal positions.
    As a result of this successful education system, it is "highly probable" that the European higher education and college systems, e.g. in Spain and Italy, were modelled along the madrasa system. This proposition is supported by the fact that the Islamic world had a well-established education system more than a century prior to its European counterpart. As Europe had regular encounters with the Islamic world, both within commercial and intellectual spheres, it is perfectly conceivable that Europe learnt from the Muslims.[14]
    The Khilafah produced some of the best personalities in the world at the time because under Islamic rule, there was no dichotomy between the temporal and the spiritual spheres and hence society excelled in all fields. As Armstrong writes, "Muslim scholars made more scientific discoveries during this time than in the whole of previously recorded history".[15]
    Scholastic giants such as al-Khwarizmi (mathematician/ scientist), Ibn al-Haytham (the "father" of optics), Ibn al-Nafis (physician), Ibn Sina (physician/ scientist), Ibn Hazm (philosopher), Ibn Khaldun (philosopher/ historian) and al-Ghazzali (theologian) are only a few to name. These are only some of the figures known to western academics, whilst there are countless others who remain unknown in the west. Yet they too made similarly extraordinary contributions to humanity. In acknowledgment this point, Gaston Wiet comments, "People of the west should publicly express their gratitude to the scholars of the Abbasid period, who were known and appreciated in Europe during the Middle Ages".[16]
    Life of non-Muslims and da'wah
    Islam's tolerance of other faiths is exemplified by the fact that one did not have to be Muslim to be affluent and established in society. In fact, western academics acknowledge that Jews and Christian citizens of the Islamic state flourished in trade. Merchants came from all background within the Islamic state. Even traders from the Byzantine Empire and Italian city states like Venice an Genoa were known to have traded freely within the Khilafah.
    However, Muslims did not restrict their business relationships to mere monetary exchange. Armed with a confident and powerful value system, Muslims in the Abbasid era actively promoted and disseminated Islamic culture and its way of life to outsiders. As a result of interactions between Muslim traders and non-Muslims, large number of people became Muslim.
    The Jews were at ease with living alongside Muslims in the holy land and elsewhere in the Khilafah. The following example illustrates this point. When the Crusaders conquered Jerusalem in 1099 and mercilessly slaughtered Jews, Christians and Muslims, the Jews sided with Muslims. A Jewish pilgrim to Jerusalem wrote to a relative in 1100, "The Franks arrived and killed everybody in the city whether of Ishmael or Israel... Now all of us had anticipated that our sultan - may God bestow glory upon his victories - would set out against the Franks with his troops and would chase them away..."[17] Unlike the states in the Middle East today, including the apartheid state of Israel, non-Muslims lived happily under Islamic rule and prospered.
    Islam safeguarded the rights of non-Muslims and generally they were not oppressed under the Khilafah. The heads of non-Muslim communities ensured that the terms of the dhimma (contract of protection, which consisted of peace, order, obedience to the state and it laws) between the state and the non-Muslim citizens were honoured. Non-Muslims participated in all aspects of civic life. The Coptic Christians in Egypt worked within the financial services whilst the Jews commonly worked within the medical profession. Hourani mentions, "Relations between Muslims and Jews in Umayyad Spain, and the Muslims and the Nestorian Christians in Abbasid Baghdad, were close and easy".[18]
    Islam's ideological and cultural strength can be appreciated when one studies the rate at which many different nations and peoples accepted Islam as their way of life. By the middle of the 8th century less than 10% of the populations in Spain, North Africa and the Middle East (excluding the Arabian peninsula) were Muslim. However, within two centuries there was a completely different picture, as these populations had entered Islam in their masses. Whilst some polemicists may claim that Islam was spread by the sword, those who objectively examine the spread of Islam appreciate that "in general they were not forced to convert" to Islam; rather "the inducement to convert existed"[19] because of the strength of Islam together with the Islamic state's active policies which encouraged populations to embrace Islam.
    As Islam spread amongst people of different races and ethnicity, it uniquely shaped their identity. The notion of Ummah was very deeply engraved in the Islamic society as Islam won people's hearts and minds and gelled all Muslims together. Hourani explores the state of the Muslim identity by the 10th century:
    "men and women in the Near East and the Maghrib lived in a universe which was defined in terms of Islam... [Muslims] were aware of belonging to something broader: the community of believers (the umma). The ritual acts which they performed in common, the acceptance of a shared view of man's destiny in this world and the next, linked them with each other..."[20]
    The notion of modern ethnic nationalism based upon a common language and territorial entity was completely alien to Islam. The nation state model, which exists today, is a foreign concept to Islam and indeed stands diametrically opposed to the history and culture of Muslims.
    Politics and governance
    The Abbasid Caliphs from the very beginning ruled only by the Shariah. The judiciary had a very distinct role separate from the executive, at the apex of which sat the chief qadi (Judge). The Abbasid Caliphs understood and practically implemented the concept of an independent judiciary. Hourani notes that the judge's "functions were separated from the governors. He had no political or financial duties..."[21] The judges' role was to resolve conflicts and give decisions in accordance with the Shariah. The judges were specially trained in the madrasa.
    The Abbasid Khilafah had administration systems divided into various departments, which was certainly complex for its time. To put it into contemporary context, they had departments for military, legal, revenue collection, treasury, security and intelligence. The Caliphs and their governors used to conduct joint public gatherings whereby they heard the people's concerns directly. To prevent the governors from being overly entrenched in their positions and thus becoming neglectful, the Caliphs kept them in regular checks through the various intelligence gathering mechanisms.
    The Islamic scholars kept themselves independent of the Caliphs in order to maintain their ability to keep the rulers in checks and acted as the protectors of Islam. Unlike today, Islamic scholars under the Khilafah were multidimensional in their professional skills. They were scholars, teachers and traders etc, as their education was of a high standard.
    The Abbasid era was a time of rapid changes in many ways, as the Khilafah experienced demographic and territorial expansion, in addition to scientific and technological and intellectual challenges. The Muslims however faced these challenges within the framework of Islam. They resorted to Ijtihad to deal with new situations, and therefore, the Islamic state prospered.
    The Khilafah was not an oppressive police state, as the Shariah safeguards the individual in society against state oppression. Armstrong states, "...no institution, such as the Khilafah or the court, had any power to interfere with the personal decisions and beliefs of the individual".[22] This had particular implication for the non-Muslims because they were left alone to practice their beliefs so long as they obeyed the laws of the state.
    Conclusion
    The Abbasid Khilafah was a "political and economic success" from its infancy, as Caliphs like Harun al-Rashid maintained peace, security and prosperity for all citizens of the state.[23] The Khilafah was a state that led the world in every field, whether scientific, intellectual or philosophical. Unlike secular liberal capitalist states, the Islamic Khilafah was a balanced nation that maintained the equilibrium between the spiritual and the temporal spheres. It is however absolutely clear that this astonishingly successful civilisation was founded upon Islam. Therefore, far from being a "hateful ideology", Islam guided many races and peoples out of backwardness. Islam again has the unique opportunity to lead this world out of the misery created by the cataclysmic failure of capitalism, which can only be achieved once the Khilafah is restored.

    Posted 2 years ago on 11 Jun 2009 12:57 #
  2. ****!

    Mulla!

    Posted 2 years ago on 11 Jun 2009 16:03 #
  3. chechen
    Member

    It is not ****. Mulla wouldn't be using computer keyboard if it was not for the contribution of Muslims of that era. Technological industry and computer encription wouldn't be there if it was not for that caliphate. And attempts are underway from Morocco to Indonesia to regain that glory as beautifully stated by Carly Fiorina in her historic speech to Hewlett Packard employees after 9/11. Even Carly longs for that Caliphate.

    There was once a civilization that was the greatest in the world. It was able to create a continental super-state that stretched from ocean to ocean, and from northern climates to tropics and deserts. Within its dominion lived hundreds of millions of people, of different creeds and ethnic origins. One of its languages became the universal language of much of the world, the bridge between the peoples of a hundred lands. Its armies were made up of people of many nationalities. Its military protection allowed a degree of peace and prosperity that had never been known. The reach of this civilization's commerce extended from Latin America to China, and everywhere in between.

    This civilization was driven, more than anything, by invention. Its architects designed buildings that defied gravity. Its mathematicians created the algebra and algorithms that would enable the building of computers and the creation of encryption. Its doctors examined the human body and found new cures for disease. Its astronomers looked into the heavens, named the stars, and paved the way for space travel and exploration. Its writers created thousands of stories - stories of courage, romance and magic. Its poets wrote of love, when others before them were too steeped in fear to think of such things.

    When other nations were afraid of ideas, this civilization thrived on them and kept them alive. When censors threatened to wipe out knowledge from past civilizations, this civilization kept the knowledge alive and passed it on to others. While modern Western civilization shares many of these traits, the civilization I'm talking about was the Islamic world from the year 800 to 1600, which included the Ottoman Empire and the courts of Baghdad, Damascus and Cairo, and enlightened rulers like Suleiman the Magnificent.

    Although we are often unaware of our indebtedness to this other civilization, its gifts are very much a part of our heritage. The technology industry would not exist without the contributions of Muslim mathematicians. Leaders like Suleiman contributed to our notions of tolerance and civic leadership. And perhaps we can learn a lesson from his example: It Was leadership based on meritocracy, not inheritance. It was leadership that harnessed the full capabilities of a very diverse population that included Christianity, Islamic and Jewish traditions.

    This kind of enlightened leadership - leadership that Nurtured culture, sustainability, diversity and courage - led to 800 years of invention and prosperity. In dark and serious times like this, we must affirm our Commitment to building societies and institutions that aspire to this kind of greatness. More than ever, we must focus on the importance of leadership - bold acts of leadership and decidedly personal acts of leadership. With that, I'd like to open up the conversation and see what we collectively believe about the role of leadership.

    Posted 2 years ago on 11 Jun 2009 16:10 #
  4. oye stupid bandar! :)

    give me a single name of a sahabi who invented something ?

    like a scientific discovery ? come on.....oh and yes if you cannot come up with a single evidence then please try to say that i was being disreputable towards sahaba radillallah..you can hide behind such allegations and divert attention..

    Mulla!

    and if you cant find a single sahabi who invented something scientific then you can start calling me a kafir, hindu agent and even a qadyani.....:) hide your loss by calling me names ok ?

    Posted 2 years ago on 11 Jun 2009 16:15 #
  5. chechen
    Member

    Never ever ridicule Sahaba Karaam. No one ever came into this world like them and never will. All inventions todate pale into insignificance compared to the light of knowledge given to mankind by those illustrious stars.

    They laid the foundation of first genuine Islamic state that brought manking from darkness to light, led the world, ignited rennaisance, and paved the way for scientific revolution. When you hit the grave- eternal abode the questions that will be asked is not about inventions and gadgets but piety and belief. Inventions are means and not the goal itself.

    Allama said about the later day Muslims like us comparing to sahabas:

    Tu jis karwan ki manzil tha
    Main us karwan ki gard hoon

    Posted 2 years ago on 11 Jun 2009 16:24 #
  6. The members @ the Pkpolitics are waiting for the last two years to witness the emergence of Khalifa.
    We are desperately waiting for the revival and appearance of Khilafat.
    I am frustrated, as I understand; it is not possible within my life time.

    jaldi borin ve khalifa, nee taan mein mar gayee aan
    tere ishq nachaya mainoo kar thayya thayya

    Posted 2 years ago on 11 Jun 2009 16:27 #
  7. Mulla,
    I do respect your thoughts and input on various subjects but I personally think that you should be careful when reffering any Sahaba karam or any prophets or Quran. It's very easy to say things which perhaps you never intend to or people can refer to any of your statements without context. Sahaaba has not invented any thing! I agree.. I am a Doctor and despite my knowledge and degrees, I have not invented anything either! I have a friend who is an engineer but he has not invented anything although he work for Microsoft on a very good post but together we have contributed to medical science and engineering in our own way. A Heart surgeon can not even treat a deep wound infection caused by him but requires a plastic surgeon to help him out.. A plastic Surgeon needs an Infection control team and they need a microbilogist to help them. And if the patient dies,they can't do anything.... then they need a priest and a Mulla to bury the same patient... My point is that you don't need to invent to be a Sahabi as people were labelled sahabi if they have seen the era of Muhammad PBUH and have kept his teaching alive. Please don't redicule them as it will hurt the feelings of a common muslim who may not be that intellectually bright as you and JS sahib!

    Posted 2 years ago on 11 Jun 2009 16:38 #
  8. astaghfirullah!

    how could i even think of , even think for a second to make fun of any Sahabi...astaghfirullah.....may Allah save me from this even if I did not intend to...nazubillah...

    the question is to this stupid bandar who is lying to us...I want him to realize that what he is saying is the glorious time of Islamic khilafat is a false idea, the areas the geographicall areas where this so called khilafat was , were areas already rich with educational tradition, the persian and iraqi lands were already rich with eduation, arabs occupied them, and later the same people who now had islamic names were written in history as muslim inventors....the reality is that these nations were already education oriented....

    just like jews who convert to islam, have high traditions of love of knowledge...its ingrained in them and not a direct reaction to their islamic conversion...yes we loosers can pretend to be proud by calling this person a muslim inventor but his principle was already in him.....

    in this context, I want these bandars to show me an single evidence of any sahabi radiallah on sceintfic invention level ? there is no evidence form Sahaba that they even cared for scientific discovery.....if there is I would like to learn ......its not making fun astaghfirulla....

    do you get my point......?

    like pathans, they are brave and generous (most of the time), by nature and its not that its their Islam which makes them brave or generous..otherwise muslim memons would be the same too, the quality is already there but we take credit for it......which is wrong projection...

    Mulla!

    Posted 2 years ago on 11 Jun 2009 16:50 #
  9. NNL
    member

    the question is to this stupid bandar who is lying to us...I want him to realize that what he is saying is the glorious time of Islamic khilafat is a false idea, the areas the geographicall areas where this so called khilafat was , were areas already rich with educational tradition, the persian and iraqi lands were already rich with eduation, arabs occupied them, and later the same people who now had islamic names were written in history as muslim inventors....the reality is that these nations were already education oriented....

    =========================================

    Lol another amusing rant by Noorani Mulla!

    Posted 2 years ago on 11 Jun 2009 17:00 #
  10. haha, when you have no proof you always laugh....

    good tactic to ignore the fart!

    Mulla!

    Posted 2 years ago on 11 Jun 2009 17:02 #
  11. chechen
    Member

    Mulla is talking like stupid Saudis who put a first "Muslim" astronaut in space. You have all manual laborers from poor countries and saudis start directly with astronaut. This is no way to progress.

    The progress of a country/civilization starts from grass roots level-bottoms up. If Mulla bothered to learn American psyche there is a sweeper to president tendency. You first build the infrasctructure to nurture scientist and technocrats. You don't start directly with scientists.

    The sahaba karaam enabled the building of that infrastructure that later culminated in the mushroom growth of Islamic civilization that led the world.

    Posted 2 years ago on 11 Jun 2009 17:23 #
  12. chechu...

    bring proof ...stop lecturing about infrastructure.....stop hiding behind logic now....

    bring me a single evidence of a scientific discovery from first 100 years of Sahaba's radiallah hu tala wa ajmaeen....

    stop giving us now variety of bull crap....get me a single name ....yallah ....!

    Mulla!

    Posted 2 years ago on 11 Jun 2009 17:57 #
  13. shamwariz
    Member

    evidence of a scientific discovery from first 100 years of Sahaba's radiallah hu tala wa ajmaeen....

    Lots of discovries..

    Science of Killing own moslim brothers.
    Science of wars.. battle of Jamal, battle of Safin....
    Scince of sahaba Vs Sahaba but all go to jannah..

    Posted 2 years ago on 11 Jun 2009 18:26 #
  14. chechen
    Member

    Mulla and Shamwariz are blinded by "bandar ki aulaad" education devoid of God Almighty. Incidentally Mulla is under the spell of bandar as he quotes it so many times in his posts.

    The essence of secular education is theory of evolution that man is evolving and has evolved from monkeys. If man has evolved from monkeys, why are still so many monkeys around. Whatever you rant about wars, killings etc etc the West has acknowledged that they are indebted to Islamic civilization as spelled out in post 3 above in this thread.

    Also remember it was Musa AS the Prophet and goat herder who challenged and then humiliated the might of Pharoah and its magicians. Fast forward to this century - the magicians are present day scientists and Pharoah is the super power of the day. And guess who is Musa AS of this day.

    Posted 2 years ago on 11 Jun 2009 19:16 #
  15. exactly what I meant!

    all of these bandars who call themselves muslims are nothing but cheaters and kidnappers...

    see how they fail to produce even on sahabi's name radillah, who did anything for the furtherance of science ? and when we ask for such proof they start giving American psyche examples...

    they are such munafiqs and we are not realizing that ....

    I ask again to the entire islamic world, give me one name from the first 100 years of Sahaba e ikraam who did any discovery of scientific nature.......

    and yes do not twist my question as a disrespect for our holy sahaba or our religion I am asking for empirical evidence...
    Mulla!

    Posted 2 years ago on 11 Jun 2009 19:21 #
  16. shamwariz
    Member

    do you think battle of Jamal, battle of Safin are theories of "bandar ki aulaad"

    Posted 2 years ago on 11 Jun 2009 19:22 #
  17. Potohari
    Blocked

    Mulla well I am not a religious guy but can't you relate head chopping with something modern as Body world exhibition by Dr. Gunter van hagen in London?

    Posted 2 years ago on 11 Jun 2009 19:24 #
  18. he has no proof thats why he attacking us personally ..ignore that and just ask for proof....

    Mulla!

    Posted 2 years ago on 11 Jun 2009 19:24 #
  19. nagatorpun
    Member

    Agreed
    It is totally ****!!!!

    khilafat=islamo fascism, religious intolerance,No freedom of thinking and expressing it and mullacracy.

    Posted 2 years ago on 11 Jun 2009 19:24 #
  20. good point!

    choppity chop!

    Mulla!

    Posted 2 years ago on 11 Jun 2009 19:25 #
  21. Potohari
    Blocked

    chop chop and head chop, saudi express.

    Posted 2 years ago on 11 Jun 2009 19:30 #
  22. Potohari
    Blocked

    chop chop and head chop, saudi express.

    Posted 2 years ago on 11 Jun 2009 19:30 #
  23. jhoot par mabni mazhab hamesha tabahi lata hai! hamesha!

    Mulla!

    Posted 2 years ago on 11 Jun 2009 19:32 #
  24. chechen
    Member

    ridiculing sharia?

    Go ahead but real chop chop will start when you hit the grave. It will not only be chop chop but burn burn and incinerate incinerate- Farishta express

    Posted 2 years ago on 11 Jun 2009 19:32 #
  25. shamwariz
    Member

    do you think battle of Jamal, battle of Safin are theories of "bandar ki aulaad

    Posted 2 years ago on 11 Jun 2009 19:35 #
  26. Potohari
    Blocked

    Most Islamic books were written by court attendees who made sure to cosy up to the rulers, or otherwise, chopy chop chop... I am not sure any straight talker would have stood a chance when ruthless psychos were ruling Muslims. Most literature was written long after the demise of Prophet Mohamad(SAW). This literature can't be taken literally, though regards and respect to them if they take it literally.

    Posted 2 years ago on 11 Jun 2009 19:35 #
  27. its mostly fiction.....

    stories of other cultures adopted to arabized versions...

    the night Rasool Allah passed away....it started right there and then!

    Mulla!

    Posted 2 years ago on 11 Jun 2009 19:41 #
  28. Potohari
    Blocked

    Mulla I can't agree more, that Islam in it's pure form didn't last more than 30 years, mostly during Prophet Mohammads(SAW) lifetime. It is my view and you are allowed to disagree with that.

    Posted 2 years ago on 11 Jun 2009 19:43 #
  29. Potohari
    Blocked

    Mulla gee kharree kharree nah karo, sub kuch gokarh dandha hai.

    Posted 2 years ago on 11 Jun 2009 19:44 #
  30. chechen
    Member

    Mullah is saying same as disbelievers said in Quran :

    “This is a glorious reading on a book well kept, which none but the purified teach. This is a revelation from the Lord of the Worlds.” Surah 25, verse 5: “They (disbelievers) said: Tales of the ancient which he has caused to be written and they are dictated to him morning and evening?”

    Posted 2 years ago on 11 Jun 2009 19:54 #
  31. Potohari
    Blocked

    chechen I think it is a secular question not a religious one. If I ask one how to get a rail ticket, they don't have to recite religion, do they? I think it is close to bullying when religious people start qouting religion to shut up others.

    Posted 2 years ago on 11 Jun 2009 19:56 #
  32. chechu...

    you are loosing buddy....

    you are loosing your war...

    bring proof or go pooof...

    bas karo bakwas apni or proof lao...

    Mulla!

    Posted 2 years ago on 11 Jun 2009 19:58 #
  33. shamwariz
    Member

    @chechen
    Your poor Khalifa

    Posted 2 years ago on 11 Jun 2009 20:02 #
  34. skyfacts
    Blocked

    chechen

    You must notice that attacking sahaba has will never end to blame ISLAM only.
    shaba collected the Quran so this is not original QURAN.
    sahaba has the AHADEES and so AHADEES are also not valid.
    At the end thier is no ISLAM on this earth.
    Go and you are allowed to do every thing as thier is no knowledge about ISLAM and no ISLAM so every one is allowed to do anything he wants.

    Yes disrespect to sahaba throw you out of the ISLAM and i think ALLAH wanted about the ppl the same who are involved in enemity with sahaba.So its useless to teach anty sahabas.

    Posted 2 years ago on 11 Jun 2009 20:11 #
  35. skyfarts:

    when you fail and your history of sahaba fails...then why cant you see the reality...

    why do you have to "throw" folks out of your narrow **** circles...

    why cant you ...eh well its useless to talk to you...

    sahaba converted kafirs into muslims, and you mashallah convert muslims into kafirs , shahbash!

    and remember I extend my hands of friendship only once..do do not cry when I return to my "question"...remember that!

    Mulla!

    Posted 2 years ago on 11 Jun 2009 20:16 #
  36. shamwariz
    Member

    History History of sahaba cutting each other throat..

    ALi razi allah VS Muavia razi allah
    ALi razi allah VS Ayesha razi allah
    who kiled Hazart Usman razi allah Sahabas..

    who kiled Hazart Umer razi allah

    Posted 2 years ago on 11 Jun 2009 20:16 #
  37. skyfacts
    Blocked

    Enemies of Sahaba has a long history and this is not questione of today about sahaba.
    Attacking sahaba is actually to prove that thier is no such religion like ISLAM.Because sahaba RTA has transferred the knowledge and every thing about ISLAM.

    Sahaba abusing or opposition is so dangerous thing one cannot imagine.

    Posted 2 years ago on 11 Jun 2009 20:18 #
  38. shamwariz
    Member

    @ skyfacts

    Just reply to history say yes or No

    ALi razi allah VS Muavia razi allah
    ALi razi allah VS Ayesha razi allah
    who kiled Hazart Usman razi allah Sahabas..

    who kiled Hazart Umer razi allah

    Posted 2 years ago on 11 Jun 2009 20:19 #
  39. chechen
    Member

    What proof and what bakwaas? You are blinded by so called discoveries. The discoveries are means not goals. Man can susrvive without those discoveries that has brought more destruction than benefit.

    There is no proof if crackpots ask questions dictated by shaitaan like existance of God. You can keep repeating I want proof mantra until you die but your question itself is shaitaan inspired. No proofs for that.

    Posted 2 years ago on 11 Jun 2009 20:20 #
  40. shamwariz
    Member

    @ chechen

    Just reply to history say yes or No

    ALi razi allah VS Muavia razi allah
    ALi razi allah VS Ayesha razi allah
    who kiled Hazart Usman razi allah Sahabas..

    who kiled Hazart Umer razi allah

    Posted 2 years ago on 11 Jun 2009 20:22 #
  41. skyfacts
    Blocked

    ALLAH doesnot want disclose some things to certain people.As was in the case of MUNAFIQEENS were not allowed to see the Muhammad SAWW as prophet.But they were seeing him as MAJIC.
    But ALLAH is NOT ZALIM with his ppl,actually he give every one his share,he is looking for,either from HAQ or BATIL.
    You will get the same what your innerself wants.Dont worry.

    Posted 2 years ago on 11 Jun 2009 20:24 #
  42. shamwariz
    Member

    @ skyfacts
    @chechen

    Please answer to my humble query..

    Just reply to history say yes or No

    ALi razi allah VS Muavia razi allah
    ALi razi allah VS Ayesha razi allah
    who kiled Hazart Usman razi allah Sahabas..

    who kiled Hazart Umer razi allah

    Posted 2 years ago on 11 Jun 2009 20:26 #
  43. chechen
    Member

    shamwariz, All Yes. So what. What are you trying to nail?

    Omar RA was killed by non-Muslim. so what

    What is your point. Why are you clinging to that faith with such a bloody history? There is lot of freedom around. Just take a hike.

    Posted 2 years ago on 11 Jun 2009 20:31 #
  44. skyfacts
    Blocked

    We are bound to keep you unaware about these happenings.
    As you are the enemy of sahaba.And its punishment in this life for you .You can expect the punishment in comming life.

    Posted 2 years ago on 11 Jun 2009 20:32 #
  45. shamwariz
    Member

    Thanks.
    for admitting in a hard way... Dont need any bloody Khilfat with bloody History..

    Posted 2 years ago on 11 Jun 2009 20:35 #
  46. skyfacts
    Blocked

    chechen

    Pls stop the things their.They will never understand this about sahaba.
    Let him die with the same concept pls.........
    chechen it will not be fair....pls stop

    Posted 2 years ago on 11 Jun 2009 20:36 #
  47. chechen
    Member

    shamwariz,

    Khilafa, Like it or not it is already in the making. The 7 semi autonomous Muslim republics in Caucausus mountains in southern Russia have declared an emirate -precursor to Khilafa. The red army is bogged down for last 300 years and struggle has intensfied. The other 5 semi autonomous republics from Tatarstan to Bashkistritan will be next addition. Just relax and watch.

    http://www.kavkazcenter.net/

    Posted 2 years ago on 11 Jun 2009 20:42 #
  48. nagatorpun
    Member

    Question: In history many sahaba ikram had killed other sahabas. Now how you will count these actions.. As according to quran, "A muslim can not be a muslim if he murders a muslim"..

    Now think about it and give me an answer. Usual stuff given by maulvis that allah will decide so you should not about it, is mistaken. Because then these same sahabas are used to give credibility to many ahadis which are highly questionable.
    Or you have to decide which group of sahaba was correct and that means you have firqas like shias and sunnis..

    Posted 2 years ago on 11 Jun 2009 20:44 #
  49. shamwariz
    Member

    Jungle mein more nacha

    Posted 2 years ago on 11 Jun 2009 20:44 #
  50. nagatorpun
    Member

    @chechen rest assured no khilafat is coming only tyrannies will come and go in the name of religion..

    And probably in next few years religion will slowly release it's control on human life as it will be faced with lots of challenges which will not be solved by praying...

    Posted 2 years ago on 11 Jun 2009 20:48 #

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