Khilafat - The select process - The Institutions

PKPolitics Discuss » Video Links

[closed]

Khilafat - The select process - The Institutions

(81 posts)

12 Next »

hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

Let's talk about the specifics of how a Khaleefa is/will be selected.

Its an age old argument, but let's discuss the process. I want to establish the fact that we ALREADY HAVE the system in parts to establish Khilafah or its subset.

I believe, in Khilafah system, there's a 'shura'. There's the system of 'bayt'. I believe, Khaleefa is selected by those in the shura through their 'bayt'.

I may be wrong. I want EVERYONE to bring in the specific details. I believe you have more info on this topic than me.

The point of my statements above is, we have the 'shura' i.e., parliament. We have the members of the shura, who are selected via 'bayt' i.e., election system. After that we also have the 'bayt' between members of Shura, who select Khaleefa i.e., prime-minister or president.

Am I on the right track? Let's establish the basics and then move upward with rights' and wrongs' in the specifics

Posted 2 years ago on 02 Sep 2009 15:31 #
chechen
Member

As per authentic Hadith once Prophet SAS said a time will come when Muslims wil be humiliated and disgraced by Kuffar all over the world. The Sahaba RA asked: Will we be very few? prophet SAS said you will be too many but like foam on the waves meaning worthless with no value whatsoever.

We need to fear Allah SBT not the mantra La Ilaha Illa CIA

Posted 2 years ago on 02 Sep 2009 16:00 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

If we already have the 'shura' and the 'bayt' system, then what is missing in establishing Khilafah ?

Posted 2 years ago on 02 Sep 2009 16:14 #
rafi
Member

Ameer-ul-Momineed ruled Muslim world for 14 century. Only exception were first four who never transfered power to their off springs. Rather most capable person was elected.

Posted 2 years ago on 02 Sep 2009 19:12 #
mulla1
blocked

the first four khulafa e rasheedeen are also relatives among each others. The first Two are father in laws of Nabi e Pak, and the later two are sons in laws of nabi e pak. (s.a.w) (radilla hu tala wa ajmaeen)...

Mulla!

Posted 2 years ago on 02 Sep 2009 19:15 #
rafi
Member

True, but they were capable isn't it. And they had confidance and approval as well. I think.

Posted 2 years ago on 02 Sep 2009 19:16 #
chechen
Member

the first four khulafa e rasheedeen are also relatives among each others.

No one ever pointed a finger at those stalwarts, the likes of whom will NEVER be born. And you have nerve to question their selection. No one dare raise a finger. The decadent environment of your new found Masters have taken its toll on your ability to appreciate those angels.

Posted 2 years ago on 02 Sep 2009 19:22 #
chechen
Member

Hadhrat Umar RA was stabbed by a deranged Persian and the first thing he asked although mortally wounded was whether the assasin was a Muslim. Mullah does not know that there was no shia sunni label during that time but has branded the assasin as "sunni" Muslim.

What was the reason Umar RA asked about the religion of assasin and felt satisfied when told that he was not a Muslim? He felt that his caliphate was lacking something that gave opportunity to Muslims to be dissatisfied- SubhanAllah. He was so much concerned about the welfare of the Ummah. It is beyond doubt that teh assasin was a pagan Zarastrian and Mulla os concocting a lie that he was not only a Muslim but a "sunni" Muslim.

Posted 2 years ago on 02 Sep 2009 19:37 #
rafi
Member

Sounds like old and new testaments, pre and post constantine christainity. In both religions history that was written later was more controlled and edited. Whereas original history was more authentic and real, but eventually distroyed. Same as the case of front page blogs of pkpolitics, which is more controlled and edited. Whereas this side blog is kind of open and original.

Posted 2 years ago on 02 Sep 2009 19:38 #
chechen
Member

Prophet SAS was "illiterate" in worldly sense that he could not read the scriptures. Everyone knows that. But you fail to notice that by definition he was far far more knowledgeable than most of the literates of that time. The key word is he was most closer to source of Knowledge-Allahj SBT and that is what is counyted and not your Ph.Ds. Get it.

Posted 2 years ago on 02 Sep 2009 20:44 #
chechen
Member

Khilafa is not "modern day". It is as old as Adam AS. I would rather discuss the disastrous effects of secular education that prompted Iqbal to say that if Phaorah would have known about the ill effects of secular education, he would have rather taught it to the new borns than killing them.

Posted 2 years ago on 02 Sep 2009 20:49 #
shahzad1924
member

Mulla "what if the shura is a collection of homosexual criminal elements with long beards and with fake degrees printed in a printing press."

nah, you wont be eligible for the shura :)

come on brothers, are you going to take Mulla's words seriously?

anyway, coming to the questions raised by brother haris. i must say, that those are very important questions. because anyone who knows the situation of the Islamic world knows that there is a severe under-current within the Ummah and the Ummah is yearning for the re-establishment of the khilafah. and the re-establishment of the khilafah is a promise from Allah (SWT) so we should know the details of the khilafah before it has been established.

if you have the time, you can read this booklet for all the details of the process; http://www.khilafah.com/index.php/the-khilafah/issues/1752-the-method-to-appoint-a-khaleefah

you have the basic understanding already Alhamdulillah, just take out some time to read the details.

now as for the current parliament being the shura, that is not true because the shura is not just an arabic name for the parliament. if my memory serves me right, we had a discussion about the constitution of Pakistan in which i presented some points to prove that it is not Islamic. i didn't get any response from you, so i don't know where you stand at the moment. but anyway i will assume that even if you do not agree with my opinion, at least you understood what i was saying. and given that, any act of the parliament is not from Islam because the basis for their legislation is not Islamic. in fact Islam does not give the right of legislation to humans. the primary role of the shura is to account the khaleefah and to advise him in administrative issues. legislation is not the job of the shura. we can go into the sharii details of this if you want.

so, thats the main difference between today's shura and the shura of the future khilafah state. if you understand this, we can move further, insha Allah.

Posted 2 years ago on 02 Sep 2009 21:15 #
khurram Zaman
Member

Zandiqa shud not be allowed as some of the shia members shud remain within some boundaries.
Shia history is totally made of jews and developments are constantly made in some where Israel their..
Shia school of thought think,
Their is no Sahaba authentic.
No quran is authentic.
No hadees is authentic.
no islam is their on the earth.
so chill pill.

Every thread started abt some Islamic topic is always filled with same filth abt Islam.
the intention is the same to close the thread,if Islamic.
Mods,
you shud not close the thread but need to warn the blsphemous ones and delete all the irrelevant posts here.

Including my this post..

Shia sunni every thing is different and cannot find any relationship between shia sunni.
their history,books,religion is totally different from sunni's..
therefore shia sunni debate needs to be deleted here and any blasphemic approach shud be warned by the admin and mods..

thanx

Posted 2 years ago on 02 Sep 2009 21:22 #
semirza
Moderator

@all
Members should refrain from posting comments that are or equate to blasphemous content. This thread remains open for discussion. All irrelevant posts will be edited of such content or deleted. Same applies to other threads.

Posted 2 years ago on 02 Sep 2009 21:31 #
khurram Zaman
Member

Mods,

Irrelevent posts shud be deleted i would like to comment over the topic on the thread......

Posted 2 years ago on 02 Sep 2009 21:32 #
Revivalist
member

HarisKhan,

"Let's talk about the specifics of how a Khaleefah is/will be selected". Bro I think we need to first agree that khilafah and democracy are different ruling systems and that khilafah is an obligatory system upon us as Muslims to live under its umbrella, which will re-unify the Ummah and will implement Islam in all sections of Life. If we won’t sort this issue out first we can never resolve the issue and can not make each other understand of what exactly we want. Besides, when we will agree that khilafah is one of the most prime obligations in Islam then we will see and analyze which organization is working for achieving this and weather the party which claims to re-establish khilafah has the homework ready etc.... So this should be the logical sequence of our discussion!!!

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Sep 2009 7:10 #
NNL
member

Chechen & Revivialist could you guys hit me on the email.

Thanks,

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Sep 2009 7:19 #
Revivalist
member

Bro NNL, Internationalist1@gmail.com is my email Id.

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Sep 2009 7:20 #
LetsDoIt
Member

@shahzad1924

good post, agree with the difference of shura and parliament except for one sentence in which you wrote

(legislation is not the job of the shura.)

IMO this sentence should be written as Legislation in Mubah is the job of the shura also shura could suspend some law (HADD)for some particular time period in certain conditions.

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Sep 2009 11:45 #
shahzad1924
member

Jazak Allah khair bro for the clarification.

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Sep 2009 12:27 #
shahzad1924
member

BTW, brother Haris, are you there?

should we go on with the discussion?

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Sep 2009 12:28 #
mulla1
blocked

i am not in agreement with this khilafat fruad!

and I warn all users to be careful ....

Mulla!

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Sep 2009 14:17 #
shahzad1924
member

yeah, and im not in agreement with this Mulla fraud.

and i warn all users to be careful...

:)

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Sep 2009 14:18 #
amin1924
member

Khilafat is synonyms of Political Islam and it a reality that can't be suppressed!

Accept it or else put your head in sand like an ostrich pretending it doesn't exist.

West might have got success in suppressing this feature of Islam temporarily but numerous ayaat & ahadith guarantee it's return and dominance.

So better buckle up, it is gonna come sooner than later -inshAllah.

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Sep 2009 14:25 #
khurram Zaman
Member

khilafat concept is their with sunnis only and rest of the sects would never want sunnis to get united..
Same is the case with Imam Mahdi.Only sunni muslims will accept and go out with Imam mahdi.rest of the sect will wait for their own mahdi and they will finally join Dajjal..
this is very obvious situation if Imam Mahdi comes and helps out the Mujahideen fighting against US and west than the ppl called the mujahideen as fraud will definitly called the Imam Mahdi also as fraud and they will never join mahdi army..this will be the point that muslims and non-muslims will be separated due to imama Mahdi.
Imam mahdi itself will declare that sect as non-muslims..
where they will stand by that time OR they will issue a fatwa of non-muslim against Imam Mahdi and his Army....
Mahdi will only expact to come in sunni muslims only and he will give and equal importasnce to hadees and sahaba....

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Sep 2009 14:32 #
f.a.khan
Member

In the famous book of Ahadith, Musnad Ahmad by Imam Ahmad bin Hambal, there is one prophetic Hadith narrated by Hadhrat Huzaifa (may Allah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be on him.) said: “Prophethood will remain among you as long as Allah wills. Then khilafat on the lines of Prophethood shall commence, and remain as long as Allah wills. Then corrupt/erosive monarchy would take place, and it will remain as long as Allah wills. After that, despotic kingship would emerge, and it will remain as long as Allah wills. Then, the khilafat shall come once again based on the precept of Prophethood.”

Khilafat on the percept of Prophethood Khilafat-ala-Minhaj-e-Nabuwwat

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Sep 2009 14:39 #
shahzad1924
member

"khilafat concept is their with sunnis only and rest of the sects would never want sunnis to get united.."

so, why do the shias have iran? why not just have small tribal territories in iran.

look, even shias believe that before Imam Mehdi we should try to unite Muslims. we can't just sit back and wait for Imam Mehdi. the concept of a single Ummah is very much engraved in every Muslim's mind irrespective of the school of thought he/she belongs to Alhamdulillah

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Sep 2009 14:46 #
zjshami
Member

.....and Khalifa Imam Mahdi would abrogate all the Constitutions of the Secular States, such as France, USA, UK and there would be a complete system of Khilafat in these States.........
people will witness the Khalifa occupying the White House in Washington D.C., at Buckingham Palace in London, in Paris, in Tokyo, and Beijing..... and the World would be very peaceful........

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Sep 2009 14:47 #
chechen
Member

Brother zaya, Jazakallah for that Hadith. If you read that Hadith in conjunction with the hadith about Khurasaan, present day Afghanistan you can easily interpret and understand what was predicted by Prophet SAS and what is going on now when Kuffar have gathered under 80 flags in Afghanistan.

Narrated By Auf bin Mali: I went to the Prophet during the Ghazwa of Tabuk while he was sitting in a leather tent. He said, “Count six signs that indicate the approach of the
Hour: my death, the conquest of Jerusalem, a plague that will afflict you (and kill you in great numbers) as the plague that afflicts sheep,the increase of wealth to such an extent that even if one is given one hundred Dinars, he will not be satisfied; then an affliction which no Arab house will escape, and then a truce between you and Bani Al-Asfar who will betray you and attack you under eighty flags. Under each flag will be twelve thousand soldiers.”
[Sahih Bukhari]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5c/Afghanistan_ISAF_Sept2008.jpg

If you count other countries that have miitary presence not shown on the map you will come to the number 80 predicted by Prophet SAS. Even tiny Guatamalo from South America has troops there. India has also a large military presence in guise of protecting their illegal workers. Their consulates are filled with military.

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Sep 2009 14:49 #
shahzad1924
member

@zjshami - may Allah accept your prayers :)

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Sep 2009 14:51 #
mulla1
blocked

zjshami:

that would be the real khilafat, not this khilafat which is being advertised by cia on the blogs!

hizb u tahreers khilafat is a fruad to get us killed, its a bizns actually!

Mulla!

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Sep 2009 15:02 #
chechen
Member

Shahadat is only by intention. Mulla and afraid of shahadat? Please call yourself other name on this blog. Mulla no longer fits your scary cat ciaphobic attitude.

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Sep 2009 15:06 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

I'm around..

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Sep 2009 15:09 #
shahzad1924
member

"that would be the real khilafat, not this khilafat which is being advertised by cia on the blogs!"

according to the hadith that informs us of Imam Mehdi, there will be a khilafah already in place. there will be a dispute on appointing the next khaleefah and people will put their trust in Imam Mehdi. so, even if thats what you call the "true khilafah", there has to be a khilafah in place before that.

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Sep 2009 15:12 #
mulla1
blocked

please find me a reference for "mahdi a.s" from Quran first!

lets see ....

Mulla!

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Sep 2009 15:14 #
amin1924
member

Are you asking because you know there ain't any?

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Sep 2009 15:19 #
NNL
member

Mullay but you believe in Mahdi dont you ?

So why ask the reference ?

Or do you have a better reference as its not in the Quran therefore can be considered a better source ?

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Sep 2009 15:23 #
mulla1
blocked

i wana show them their "mistake"....

they are thinking of "mahdi" as a person....while I am of the opinion that a personality reference was used to explain the minor details as its an analogy, I consider it to be a "system" ......

Mulla!

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Sep 2009 15:24 #
shahzad1924
member

"please find me a reference for "mahdi a.s" from Quran first!"

Lo ji!

aap hee nay kaha tha "that would be the real khilafat, not this khilafat which is being advertised by cia on the blogs!"

i was just commenting on that.

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Sep 2009 15:26 #
NNL
member

Mahdi as a system instead of a specific person ?

So if Mahdi is the system then how come Shia's believe him to be the 12th and final Imam

Cos mostly its referenced as a person ?

if you got some good material for study then do post please.

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Sep 2009 15:26 #
Bullay Shah
Member

the select process of Caliph is neither mentioned by Prophet nor by Quran.

First four capliph's process of selection was contradictory to each other. as Abu Bakar was selecctedd on the moethod of "Consensus of Elites". Umar was selected on the method of "Nomination". Usman came into power through "Committee approach". Ali became caliph through Civil War.

the next coming caliphs were a dynasties tribal politics.

I think Prophet was not concerned about devicing a "political system" rather he kept it open and flexible for each culture. His major concern was making of a social system.

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Sep 2009 15:34 #
shahzad1924
member

"First four capliph's process of selection was contradictory to each other. as Abu Bakar was selecctedd on the moethod of "Consensus of Elites". Umar was selected on the method of "Nomination". Usman came into power through "Committee approach". Ali became caliph through Civil War."

bro, help me out here. because if fail to see the contradiction in the different methods. things that are different, are not necessarily in contradiction to each other.

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Sep 2009 15:37 #
Bullay Shah
Member

well, Civil War is contradictory to Consensus of Elites and Nomination is contardictory to Committe approach.

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Sep 2009 15:43 #
mulla1
blocked

bullay shah..your understanding is very correct!

Mulla!

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Sep 2009 15:46 #
chechen
Member

Blind leading another blind

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Sep 2009 15:49 #
mulla1
blocked

khilafat is actually very non prophetic model, its actually based on roman governance model which was dominant style of government at that time....

prophet was sent to abolish all kingdoms, afsoos after his physical parda from the world, we ended up with a Romanesque model of governance painted with a brush called "holy" and pushed down the throats of those who did not buy it right away!

read the history, this is not my words this is what the history speakth! and do not fight amongst ourselves...lets move on!

Mulla!

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Sep 2009 15:52 #
chechen
Member

history written by whom? Zionist thugs? Colonialists? Orientalists?

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Sep 2009 16:01 #
mulla1
blocked

yes, exactly, jews becoming muslims and then writing all this!

Mulla!

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Sep 2009 16:02 #
chechen
Member

name one. Don't bs

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Sep 2009 16:07 #
mulla1
blocked

look who is talking....but you, harriskhan, nnl, jj, when you guys all loose your argument you start accusing and defaming a person....is that a signal for the rest to abondon the thread ?

Mulla!

Posted 2 years ago on 03 Sep 2009 16:16 #