PKPolitics Discuss » Current Issues

Lal Masjid in Gaza

(103 posts)
  1. netengr
    blocked

    http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/08/200981513215600148.html

    http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/08/200981422158703726.html

    Hammas killed the Militants who declared Hammas government non sharia and want to implement Sharia in Gaza .
    16 to 50 people killed including the Ameer of Jamaat assalfia shiakh Musa .

    I want to know

    -Is hammas governemnt is Sharaee or non sharaee ?
    -Why the whole "Ummat-e-Muslima " and other Islamic groups are silent on this issue ,why they do not raise their voice of killing of "Palestinians brothers ".
    -Why there is double standards if the same thing happen in Pakistan these Militants got support from so called Political islamic group but the same thing happen in Gaza or Saudi Arabia and they stay silent ?

    -Is hammas action or operation is according to shaira or other group is right who want to establish their sharia ?

    why there is no protest against hammas or in the favor of Militants in Pakistan as we used to do when palitinians got killed by israel ?

    ------------------------------------------------------

    Hamas ends Gaza mosque clash

    Abdul Latif Musa, centre, demanded that Hamas implement a stricter interpretation of sharia [AFP]

    Clashes between Hamas security forces in Gaza and supporters of an armed group whose leader had declared the territory "an Islamic Emirate" have ended, leaving at least 16 people dead.

    The fighting errupted in the town of Rafah on Friday after Sheikh Abdul Latif Musa, the religious leader of the group and imam of the Ibn Taymiya mosque, called for Gaza to be ruled by sharia (Islamic law).

    "The ministry of interior here in Gaza has essentially declared that the operation has been completed," Al Jazeera's Ayman Mohyeldin said of the fight against members of al-Jamaa al-Salafiya al-Jihadya in Palestine.

    He said early on Saturday that police were investigating two battle sites, looking for bodies and trying to identify the whereabouts of Sheikh Abdul Latif Musa.

    "It is still unknown at this stage wheather or not he was killed in the fighting or somehow managed to escape," he said.

    "There are reports that they may have detonated explosives around the house and there is also a belief that there may be a tunnel that has allowed some of the fighters to escape."

    Sharia demand

    The fighting began at the Ibn Taymiya mosque after Musa's speech. Hamas security forces seized control of the building late on Friday after several hours of heavy clashes.

    "We are today proclaiming the creation of an Islamist emirate in the Gaza Strip"

    Abdul Latif Musa, leader of Al-Jamaa al-Salafiya al-Jihadya in Palestine

    Some of the fighters holed up inside then managed to escape to Musa's home.

    Scores of people were wounded in the fighting outside that building, several of them critically, medical officials said.

    Musa leads a group called Al-Jamaa al-Salafiya al-Jihadya in Palestine (The Jihadist Salafist Group in Palestine), which seeks a Palestinian legal system based purely on the sharia and which has accused Hamas of being too liberal.

    The group is said to have threatened to burn down internet cafes, and has called for people using Gaza's beaches to dress more modestly.

    "We are today proclaiming the creation of an Islamic emirate in the Gaza Strip," Musa had told worshippers at the mosque on Friday.

    'Support at mosque'

    Musa said that if Hamas were to implement sharia he would immediately instruct his followers to comply with the movement's instructions.

    In video

    Call for Islamic law in Gaza sparks Hamas crackdown
    An audience of several hundred men filled the mosque as Musa spoke, cheering and shouting in response to his address.

    A spokesperson for the Hamas-run interior ministry dismissed Musas's comments and described him as being mentally unstable.

    In a statement, the ministry warned that those violating the law would be pursued and dealt with by the law.

    "Everyone outside the law and carrying arms in order to spread chaos will be pursued and arrested," it said.

    The ministry of religious affairs has asked Musa on several previous occasions to resign his post, but he has refused.

    Foreign fighters

    Mohyeldin said: "It is important to put this situation into the context of the discussion that has been going on here over the past week, and in fact for some time now.

    Heavily armed men accompanied Musa as he addressed worshippers at the mosque [AFP]
    "There has been some criticism that Gaza has become a bastion or a safe place for a lot of foreign fighters ... and that is something that many here, in particular from Hamas, believe undermines Hamas's ability to rule."

    Earlier on Friday, Ismail Haniyah, the de facto prime minister in Gaza, rejected Israeli allegations that non-Palestinians who had fought in Iraq and Afghanistan were crossing into from Egypt in order to set up bases in the territory.

    "Such groups do not exist on the soil of the Gaza Strip ... there are no fighters in Gaza except Gazan fighters," he said.

    Sami Abu Zuhri, a Hamas official, said that Musa's group, which two months ago attempted horseback attack on an Israeli base, "has no affiliation with foreign groups".

    Posted 2 years ago on 27 Aug 2009 20:46 #
  2. chechen
    Member

    Hamas is a nationalist organization and has nothing to do with freedom struggle of Masjid Al Aqsa in particular and Palestine in general. They think Bait Al Maqdis is their property.

    They are more concerned in pleasing Kuffar than Allah SBT.

    One of their stupid leaders said in an interview after that Masjid massacre that "they are not like Taliban". See their slave mentality. No one asked them about Taliban but to attract attention from reporters they used the Taliban as bogeyman. That statement was purely to please Kuffar with desperate attempt to win recognition from West.

    Masjid al Aqsa was liberated before by Salauddin Ayoubi. He was neither Palestinian or a Arab. He was Kurdish. Insha'Allah it may vey well be a Pakistani who will liberate it this time. How about netengr?

    Posted 2 years ago on 27 Aug 2009 20:56 #
  3. netengr
    blocked

    Chech

    please do not drag this to emotional Masjid-e-Iqsa issue .

    Masjid damage ,40 muslims killed by Hammas is not the concern ?

    If Hammas in nationalist then these militant group is Islamic ?

    Who is Qatil and who is Shaheed ?

    My question is if the same thing happen in Pakistan ,political islamic groups support militants why they do not support them in GAZa ?

    Posted 2 years ago on 27 Aug 2009 21:01 #
  4. shahzad1924
    member

    i know you might not read this because of your bias, but anyway here is a leaflet that explains the history;

    http://www.hizb-australia.org/global-dawah/leaflets/906-hamas-follows-the-path-of-fatah-inch-by-inch-hand-span-by-hand-span

    Posted 2 years ago on 27 Aug 2009 21:46 #
  5. amin1924
    member

    Both parties have been exposed to local citizens, there is no more enthusiasm in people as it used to be in 70s/80s.

    Current generation is sick of them, both negotiate on Western agenda while compromise on agenda promised to locals.

    Posted 2 years ago on 27 Aug 2009 22:57 #
  6. Chechen
    'They are more concerned in pleasing Kuffar than Allah SBT.'

    Its u who decide who is pleasing Kuffar ?

    Bahi , don't make every thing so religious. There are several interpretations of the same thing . They are right in their thinking and u r right in your . So wahts the point ?

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Aug 2009 3:19 #
  7. shahzad1924
    member

    how can two things be right at the same time when they are in opposition to each other?

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Aug 2009 3:50 #
  8. shahzad1924

    Anything logical is not meant for u my dear . Please first read , understand and then respond.

    '
    There are several interpretations of the same thing . They are right in their thinking and u r right in your
    '

    Everything has different perspective. Lets be tolerant and accept/accomodate different point of views

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Aug 2009 3:57 #
  9. shahzad1924
    member

    did you go to primary school or did you just run away? you have some serious problems in understanding things.

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Aug 2009 4:10 #
  10. junaid
    Member

    hamaas is a political party and it has nothing to do with shareat. they did blatant mistake by attacking mosque and by killing innocents. ansaar only declared that they want the state to be sharee but these hamaas stooges went straight to the mosque without any negotiations. inshAllah they will face the consequences.

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Aug 2009 8:08 #
  11. Red-Scorpion
    Blocked

    @junaid

    ""hamaas is a political party and it has nothing to do with shareat""

    >>>

    Wallah, yeh Mujahadeen-e-Hamas par Buhatan-e-Azeem hay !

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Aug 2009 8:16 #
  12. khurram Zaman
    Member

    i would like any one already participated in this thread to discuss the International and local situation Hamas is playing in..
    I mean to say we shud know abt the contest of the situation in pelistine bfore discussing such an issue.....

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Aug 2009 8:53 #
  13. amin1924
    member

    Before commenting on Palestinian issue it is recommended to understand:

    #1- American Road map and progress made so far in achieving it, hurdles that are hindering implementation

    #2- European (French/Britain) Road Map and progress made so far in achieving it, hurdles that are hindering implementation

    #3- PLO (fatah) Road Map, negotiations, dialogs, what is holding back?

    #4- Hamas Road Map...

    Then one can comment who is following whose plan. Don't rely on slogans and media propaganda, Wiki is a good source to study and understand this MOST COMPLEX CONFLICT of the world.

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Aug 2009 8:54 #
  14. junaid
    Member

    @Red-Scorpion
    i assume you were being sarcastic. mujahadeen can never attack on the mosque; not even on that person who was quoting hz umar rz.

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Aug 2009 8:59 #
  15. amin1924
    member

    Also important to know whose agents are rulers of Syria/Egypt/Jordan/Lebanon. This adds further to complexity of the issue stated above.

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Aug 2009 9:02 #
  16. Red-Scorpion
    Blocked

    @Janu Jerma

    Please tell me when did Khalifah party of GB organise a protest for the killings of 'innocent muslims' and desecration of Masjid ?

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Aug 2009 9:32 #
  17. shahzad1924

    If different perspective don't exist on the same issue then why there are different ways of offering prayer ? Even in just sunnis--leaving shias aside.

    Mein school say bahga tha yaa nahi, leave that aside , and come up with something logical. (quite impossible from any mulla)

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Aug 2009 10:18 #
  18. NNL
    member

    Asif

    I think you havent met the Mullahs of Karachi.

    Come back again to Karachi and then hook up with some true people of Karachi.

    Insha Allah if i m around and if you come back then i will introduce you to some mullahs.

    They have the intellect to shock you and rock your world (ina good way :))

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Aug 2009 11:44 #
  19. amin1924
    member

    AsifK says:

    why there are different ways of offering prayer?

    No different ways, what are you talking about? I encourage you to do a little exercise and then tell me what results you get:

    #1- List all the fard actions in a prayer
    #2- List all the wajib actions in a prayer
    #3- List all the sunna actions in a prayer
    #4- List all muhtasib actions in a prayer

    Then tell me what is difference in CATEGORY 1 in Shia/Sunny.

    You will be amazed to see that even shia/sunni are same!

    Take off your prejudice glasses and see things from Islamic lens.

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Aug 2009 11:52 #
  20. shahzad1924
    member

    @Red-Scorpion "Please tell me when did Khalifah party of GB organise a protest for the killings of 'innocent muslims' and desecration of Masjid ?"

    how is this relevant here.

    @AsifK "If different perspective don't exist on the same issue then why there are different ways of offering prayer ?"

    come with an example on which you have some command. shariah and fiqh are not your subjects.

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Aug 2009 12:05 #
  21. shahzad1924
    member

    "Take off your prejudice glasses and see things from Islamic lens."

    bro, im afraid those are not just glasses that could be taken off. he has surgically implanted them in his eyes.

    BTW, Asif j/k so don't take it seriously :)

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Aug 2009 12:06 #
  22. khurram Zaman
    Member

    shehzad ,NNL,JJkhan,haris khan,

    Koi muqabil nahi door tak.........Balke bohat door tak...

    Great logics,well done,.......Salute

    jazakallaho ahsana..

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Aug 2009 12:09 #
  23. amin1924
    member

    Asif Khan,

    Come on brother, don't be rude by ignoring my post above, that was especially written for you to enlighten "DIFFERENCE IN PRAYERS".

    I hope you understand now and wont put this rhetorical question again ever.

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Aug 2009 12:14 #
  24. amin1924
    member

    bebus,

    Good question, because as Muslims we are bound to live according guidance from Allah swt, Rasoolullah saw is our example.

    There is no one in the world who can claim that I have no lens, everyone has a perspective to view things. For example your suggestion implies secular view!

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Aug 2009 12:20 #
  25. shahzad1924
    member

    bro, not a good idea these days. ive heard the ozone layer is fast going away and the UV index is increasing each day :)

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Aug 2009 12:20 #
  26. amin1924
    member

    Shahzad,

    Good one... LOLzz

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Aug 2009 12:22 #
  27. amin1924
    member

    bebus,

    Care to tell us, perhaps for our education, what is defination of your "neutral view", may be we adopt it, if it is good.

    Secondly, how are you correlating Islamic ideology with political issues?

    Two muslims having conflict doesn't mean that there is conflict in Islamic Ideology, right?

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Aug 2009 12:58 #
  28. Anonymous

    @JJ Khan

    Dear friend

    Whatever I said was simple and clear.
    Neither I can teach you nor can you teach me.
    I did not correlate Islamic ideology with political issues.
    I did not say that, "two muslims having conflict doesn't mean that there is conflict in Islamic Ideology, right"
    I shall say again that whatever I said was very simple and clear.

    Regards

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Aug 2009 13:18 #
  29. amin1924
    member

    bebus,

    No problem if you can't defend your arguments logically. I think you have some confusion in those terms, perhaps good idea to understand yourself first so you could present them with logic.

    Thanks-

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Aug 2009 13:23 #
  30. JJ Khan

    Neither i m rude not clueless to ignore your msg but obvioulsy i m not here 24 hours to answer your question.

    To answer your question.

    A) Whats Zoharain and Maghrabian prayers in shia school of thought ?

    B) Why Braveles don't offer prayer behind Deobands and Wahabis ?

    Don't show ignorance that this doesn't happen.

    Man, personally speaking i dont' have any issue with any of these methods becaz i believe that Prophet PBUH offered prayer in each away (adopted by these school of thoughts) and one school of thought has considered one 'rayat' more authentic than the other.

    Point mentioned was just to elaborate that same thing has different perspectives and each perspective is true for its belivers.

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Aug 2009 15:34 #
  31. shahzad1924
    member

    Asif you are not getting the point. in the examples you have quoted both ARE right because that is allowed from Islam. in a dhanni (doubtful) issue, two or even three opinions could be right.

    but in the case where chechen made a comment, only one thing can be right. now, i wont speak further about hamas because i have already pasted a link of what i think about the situation.

    there is a very big problem in your understanding. if someone kills a person on reasons of family rivalry, the killer should be punished. but if we take your logic we could say that "oh, the killer's father was killed by the victim's father, so the killer is right too". so who will you punish. if everything is right then whats the point in having laws etc.

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Aug 2009 21:26 #
  32. amin1924
    member

    AsifK,

    You said

    If different perspective don't exist on the same issue then why there are different ways of offering prayer ?
    Then you challenged to give logical answer!

    I gave you answer on that and placed a counter challenge, now you tell me where is difference in prayers that you taunted? Or you agree that there is no difference? Please be kind enough to accept if someone presents something solid.

    Now regarding zohrain, that is also practiced in sunni mazahib, don't you know? Difference is of frequency, but I don't want to go into fiqhi debate here, they have daleel sharia for that action, daleel is weak according to sunni but no one can say they are sinners!

    Regarding bralvi/deobandi/wahabi, come on when they are at hajj they pray behind each other, similarly when outside Pakistan no such difference is there.

    In Pakistan majids run on donations received from people who come on regular basis. Call them subscribers, to secure donations for their masjid only they use emotions or inflame people so they are only tied to one masjid hense revenue is secured.

    Back in the day when auwkaaf was present (destroyed by british) these were elite institutions, mulla/moalana were elite titles that british turned into gali and our coconuts proudly follow.

    There is unity in Muslims, hardcore unity in all aspects, you follow the drill i suggested for any action and you would be surprised to find out that 99.99% is all same in all mazhahib.

    I do expect a decent response from you now.

    Thanks-

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Aug 2009 22:51 #
  33. 'Difference is of frequency, but I don't want to go into fiqhi debate here, '

    Man , u have already given response in the above lines.

    Whats fiqhi difference?

    Following is copy from my last msg which probably u didn't get.
    '
    Man, personally speaking i dont' have any issue with any of these methods becaz i believe that Prophet PBUH offered prayer in each away (adopted by these school of thoughts) and one school of thought has considered one 'rayat' more authentic than the other.
    '

    Posted 2 years ago on 29 Aug 2009 7:29 #
  34. amin1924
    member

    Right, so you agree there is no issue, then plz stop putting rhetorical challenges, or else I'll ask you again to do exercise on category #1 (For Sunni)!

    Posted 2 years ago on 29 Aug 2009 7:34 #
  35. JJ Khan

    BAhi, u agree that there are fiqhi differences althought we have to live by that.

    Same thing i said that there are different perspectives of everything and we have to be tolerarnt. So whats the point u r trying to prove ?

    Posted 2 years ago on 29 Aug 2009 13:56 #
  36. amin1924
    member

    AsifK,

    Right, what I am saying is that difference of opinion was even there during sahab's time, that is a healthy indicator.

    What unifies muslim is concept of IMAM, for example when imam is leading a prayer do you see how disciplined that 'exercise' is?

    All follow imam, irrespective of "forohee ikhtalaf" that is what we are missing, Imam that can unite people by adopting one principle where unity among muslim is must.

    There are many ahadiths that bind Muslims to obey the Imam.

    Posted 2 years ago on 29 Aug 2009 14:04 #
  37. Muslims are bound only by quran and sunnah , nothing else. All human beings are equal and every human is personally liable to understanding , interpreting and practicing.

    If u don't like an imam , there is no biding that u have to offer prayer behind him.

    Posted 2 years ago on 29 Aug 2009 14:11 #
  38. NNL
    member

    All human beings are equal and every human is personally liable to understanding , interpreting and practicing.

    Could you elaborate what you mean by that statement.

    Posted 2 years ago on 29 Aug 2009 14:13 #
  39. zjshami
    Member

    Imam should be a Leader, who has been confined only to lead prayers in a Masjid.
    This is not the correct manifestation of the philosophy behind Imamat.
    Imam should be a person who could be well qualified to be elected as Ruler in an Islamic State when needed.
    How a carpenter could be appointed as Surgeon in a Hospital without having a basic Medical Degree?
    That prompted Allam Iqbal to say:
    tera imam be hazoor teri namaz be saroor
    ase imam se guzar asi namaz se guzar

    Posted 2 years ago on 29 Aug 2009 14:40 #
  40. amin1924
    member

    Yes, zjshami's interpretation is correct, AsifK you took imam as masjid's imam, that was not what I meant.

    Imam is a ruler, Caliph, Khalifah. Imam unites various opinions on one subject by selecting the best opinion. This is same as in capitalism many experts provide opinion on solving credit crunch problem and president selects best opinion to solve the problem. People are entitled to hold their understanding and research it but for implementation purpose and state policy purpose Imam's ruling will be implemented.

    Got it?

    Posted 2 years ago on 29 Aug 2009 14:55 #
  41. NNL
    member

    JJ

    Shami sounds like another Iqbal ka Ashique lol

    However what Shami is hinting is something to the effect of the Twelver Imamiate concept.

    Its a cheeky one though.

    Posted 2 years ago on 29 Aug 2009 14:58 #
  42. NNL

    I don't see anything worth elborating . Its crystal clear.

    a) All Human Beings are equal.
    b) every human is personally liable to understanding , interpreting and practicing faith (in our case Islam).

    Posted 2 years ago on 29 Aug 2009 15:07 #
  43. amin1924
    member

    AsifK,

    Now back to actual topic, please see the passion in George Galloway's talk on Palestine! Why don't our leaders have same?

    Posted 2 years ago on 29 Aug 2009 15:15 #
  44. zjshami
    Member

    tu ne poochi hai imamat ki haqiqat mujh se
    haq tujhe meri tarah sahib i israr kare
    hai wohi tere zamanay ka imam i bar haq
    jo tujhe hazar o mojood se bezar kare
    maut ke aaeeney men tujh ko dikha kar rukh i doost
    zindagi tere lyye aur bhi dushwar kare

    Posted 2 years ago on 29 Aug 2009 15:29 #
  45. amin1924
    member

    Junaid Jamshed...

    Posted 2 years ago on 29 Aug 2009 15:37 #
  46. netengr
    blocked

    Hammas is not the nationalist party ,This is started by Palestinian wing of Alakhwan .Hammas is abbreviation of حركة المقاومة الاسلامية

    Posted 2 years ago on 29 Aug 2009 18:07 #
  47. chechen
    Member

    May be started as Ikhwan but taken over by nationalists.

    We are living in times when the Hadith of Prophet SAS is very appropriate:

    The One who is a Believer in the evening turns into Unbeliever in the morning and vice versa.

    Posted 2 years ago on 29 Aug 2009 18:20 #
  48. netengr
    blocked

    who is right shaikh Abdul latif musa and Abdul Rasheed Ghazi or Ismail Hania and Pervez Mushrraf ?

    Who is Qatil this time Ismael hania ?

    Pakistan main deen kay naam per jo kero "hero" ban jayeh ga
    Gaza or saudia main wohi kaam keray ga uss ki khir nahi hogi ..

    wah wah kia usso hain hamaray bhi

    Posted 2 years ago on 29 Aug 2009 20:40 #
  49. chechen
    Member

    It is easy to find. The one who is wrong is always trying to please Kuffar. Busharraf and Hania are in that category.

    Posted 2 years ago on 29 Aug 2009 21:05 #
  50. shahzad1924
    member

    @AsifK "If u don't like an imam , there is no biding that u have to offer prayer behind him."

    huh, and you call me mullah :)

    Posted 2 years ago on 30 Aug 2009 1:33 #

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