our society is almost divided into two groups;
Liberals OR Extremists. is there any third option?
Our liberals are so called progressive, westernized always come out with new thoughts while having 3/4 packs of whisky in call girls party.
The other group consists of religous extremists, fundamentalists, jehadees supporting taliban to conquer the whole world while having hasheesh/churs/ using teen agers for sexual satisfaction.
Let us think any 3rd option.
amin1924
member
Do you live in Pakistan?
I don't see these two types around me??
People are normal people.
if people are normal why not seen organised and prominent against these two groups ?
amin1924
member
People don't organize, only leaders do.
Sincere leaders are not allowed -period.
sincere leaders ??
JUI (F), MQM, ANP always are part of the government either PPP leading or PML.
what is the credibility of our political leaders ?? always ready to polish the shoes of actual rulers.
amin1924
member
Yes, so why are you terming these slaves as liberal/extremist??
They are just slaves nothing more.
liberals and extremists as mentioned above , are one and the same, only their face and dressing different.
Adonis
Member
Both secular and religious extremists are fringe groups. The bulk of Pakistani society is moderate Muslim which for example considers drinking a sin but does not think that everyone should grow beards.
The upheaval in our country is because the secular extremist fringe tried to impose its agenda over the rest of us and as a result, the religious extremists became stronger.
The only way out is to tune our national policies according to the wishes of the overwhelming moderate majority and reject the views of all shades of extremists.
sasherwani
Members
@ Truepakistani,
Your defination of Liberals and Extremists consists of probably 0.5% of the Pakistani population. The remaining 99.5% is somewhere in the middle.
Human Nature could be categorized into four trends.
1. Reactionary
2. Conservative
3. Moderate or Liberal
4. Radical or Revolutionary
Reactionary and Radical is also known as extremist.
Politically these four trends of human choices are grouped into three sections.
1. Rightists, Who are generally religious and want to stay clung with the traditional way of life.
2. Liberals or Centralist, who support or oppose any change after a logical evaluation.
3. Leftists, who support and promote revolutionary changes at an outdated social, political and economic system of life.
Most of the World population is Moderate, Liberal and Centralist.
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
religious fringe groups ?
I'm a common man. I have a beard. But I don't force others to have beards.
I live in Lahore. Lahore is as lawless as the rest of the nation. I don't see people in Lahore forcing others to have beards. In-fact I have NEVER seen a person do it in the last 30 years of my life.
Why ALWAYS this bias about beards ? Who in Pakistan is forcing the other to have beards ?
Yes, I express my views with a certain 'jalaal' ( in urdu ), but that doesn't mean I force others to adhere to my sayings.
I consider myself a practicing Muslim. I don't do drugs, hasheesh (as you put it), teenage sex.
religous extremists? How exactly ?
Yes, I'm a fundamentalist. I adhere to Islam's fundamental laws, principles, prescribed ways.
WHAT is wrong in that ?!?!!
Yes, I love Jihad. But I don't force it on others. Others CAN remain cowards, CAN die the deaths of cowards.
WHAT is wrong in that ?!?!!
Well, supporting Taliban is important. Why ? Because US / Nato has brought Army of 40+ countries + private contractor force onto the poorest nation of the world -> Afghanistan. It is important to support them. They are our Muslim brothers.
WHAT is wrong in that ?!?!!
How can a Muslim ignore another Muslim who is being killed by military forces of 40+ countries + private contractor force ? Are we INSANE ?!
P.S. US is now slowly moving that WAR to Pakistan. They are planning on focusing on the war inside Pakistan. ALL that military force is planned to come to Pakistan.
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
Let me add one thing though.
Islam is coming. It will get implemented in Pakistan, whether it is the religious extremists as you put them or moderates. Islam will get implemented INSHALLAH.
The only question that remains is, will it come through a bloody or a peaceful revolution.
I don't care who implements Islami Nizam (in urdu), as long as they implement Islami Nizam (in urdu).
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
‘And so (O Muhammad) judge/rule [Hukm] among them in accordance with God’s revelations to you’
[Quran 5:49]
We have sent our messengers with Clarifications. And We revealed with them the Book (of Allah) and the STANDARD, so that people may establish Justice…
[Quran 57:25]
It may be that you hate something when it is good for you and it may be that you love something when it is bad for you. God knows and you do not know
[Surat al-Baqara: 216]
sane
Member
Just to clarify one thing.
Either I am "a Muslim" or I am "not", there in no such thing as a "moderate Muslim".
back to basics...
Muslim: A person who submits his will to the Will of Allah.
either we live according to the commandments given by Allah or we live against them. It is not possible that we pretend to be a muslim but behave like a non-muslim, by the way this is refer to as 'hypocrisy'.
now, its upto you to label "a muslim" as extremist or a hypocrite as a "moderate muslim"
zia m
Member
Currently Muslims all over the world are caught in middle of orthodox fundamentalism on one hand and neo imperialism on the other.We need to rise above both to create a better and peaceful world.
The Judeo-christian concept of promised land has done a great injustice to Muslims.
We have great Islamic thinkers like Ziauddin Sardar,who are advocating reformation.Sooner or later we will have to listen to the saner voices within our society.Our very survival depends on it.
amin1924
member
What is this thing 'orthodox fundamentalism'?
Any definition anywhere?
zia m
Member
Salafis, Wahabis and their followers like Taliban are all fundamentalists.
amin1924
member
I am referring to your new invention: 'orthodox fundamentalism'
What is the definition of that thing?
zia m
Member
Orthodoxy and fundamentalism go hand in hand and Taliban are the prime example.
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
Fundamentalists, you say ?
Have you seen that Will Smith movie Bad Boys II ?
In that movie, Will Smith and his partner (cops) go to a deserted old decapitated house owned by Haitians. Shooting begins. Will Smith engages them and his partner says, common! man, talk to them. Don't just start shooting at them.
Will Smith stops and tells his partner;
You want to talk to them ? OK. Talk to them .. His partner starts talking to him, (shooting continues from the other side). Sir, we'r not here to hurt you. We'r here to talk with you (shooting continues from the other side)
Will Smith says, they can't hear you, because they'r still shooting AT YOU.
Anyone get the message ?
Hassan Nisar is right in one sentence. He says, yesterday YOU were powerful, YOU conquered countries, empires. Today, THEY are powerful, they are conquering YOU .. and the game continues...
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
@truepakistani
--------------------------------------
'our society is almost divided into two groups;
Liberals OR Extremists. is there any third option?
Our liberals are so called progressive, westernized always come out with new thoughts while having 3/4 packs of whisky in call girls party.
The other group consists of religous extremists, fundamentalists, jehadees supporting taliban to conquer the whole world while having hasheesh/churs/ using teen agers for sexual satisfaction.'
Let us think any 3rd option.
----------------------------------------
Who are the:
-religious extremists?
-Jihadis?
-fundamentalists?
Kindly pls define!
Also pls do educate me about 'liberals' and do they follow any religion or they are just liberals, defying all as they please! Or defying all codes of conduct means liberal? Or liberals have anything to do with religion at all and it is just a way of living?
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
Some months ago, it was only Jamaat-e-Islami which was saying 'Go America Go'.
Today media anchor persons, like Hamid Mir, Moid Peerzada, Talat Hussain even, ALL of them are ALSO saying, 'Go America Go'
Who is the extremist now ?
Sir Syed Ahmad Khan, Sir Agha Khan, Allama Iqbal, Mohammad Ali Jinnah, Liaqat Ali Khan, Mohtarma Fatima Jinnah, Ayub Khan, Khan Abdul Wali Khan, Yahya Khan, Z.A. Bhutto, Mohammad Khan Junejo, Ch. Fazal Elahi, Khawaja Nazim-u-Din, Benazir Bhutto, Gen. Musharraf, Fiaz Ahmad Faiz, Mirza Ghalib, Imran Khan, Aitzaz Ahsan, Ahmad Raza Kasuri, Asma Shirazi, Talaat Husain, Shahid Masood, Hamid Meer, Nadia Khan, Jasmeen Manzoor and Moderator Beena, are some of the celebrities who could be placed as Moderates and Balanced Liberals.
I am very much interested for a rational answer to my questions!
@hariskhan
I appreciate your effort but it was not upto what should have been an appropriate response. My questions have nothing to do with the personalities you mentioned!
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
Mirza sb. I didn't mention them as an answer to your question(s).
It was an independent new post on this thread.
expakistani
Member
well i personally like this rule
" AAP ko aap ke Darhi mubarak or mujhe meri Daru"
Dont force me to follow ur religion and i wouldt force you to leave ur religion....
let me try my best to
Who are the:
-religious extremists?
Who try to force their religion in our lifes, call them wahbies, people from deobund or Jonah witness guys....
-Jihadis?
Jo har kaam Allah Ke liay kareen, apni nabz per qabo kerna bhi eik Jihad hey... PK politics per aker Sach ko Sachi or Jhoot ko Jhoot bolna bhi jehad hey
-fundamentalists?
People who think every freaking thing under blue sky is fundamental right of mighty Human....
These people Make joke of Hazart Mohmmad (SA),
Hidu Dharam, Qadiyani religion, for them its OK to poke joke about Hindus and COWs... Muslim and Pigs etc
Because Freedom of speech is their fundamental right
So those people are fundamentalist....
bravogameover
Member
For truepakistani
//JUI (F), MQM, ANP always are part of the government either PPP leading or PML.
what is the credibility of our political leaders ?? always ready to polish the shoes of actual rulers. //
Actions/policies and implementation is the only proof for any Ideology which demands its truthfulless and righteousness.
I am afraid that no one thinks,analyze neutrally ( leaving hatred,jealousy,enemity for MQM) that the people/parties who have got 2/3/4 times of Prime Ministership,2/3/4 times of Presidential ship, 2/3/4 times of Chief Ministerships in all four Provinces and Pakistani Bureaucracy (zionist bureacracy of Pakistan which is menace of Pakistan has also been recruited by these "TWO" parties) means these "TWO" parties have served inallkey positions in Pakistan but wha did they do , " ZERO "
they both deliberately,
1.ignored " provincial Autonomy Bill " which was the dream of Indian Muslims before 1947 and still it is dream for Ex Indian Muslims,who are now Pakistanis after 62 years.
2.ignored " Local Government Bill ", it is the system which is practiced in almost all developed countries with extreme power for creating " best possible " governance,we buy latest PC's,cell phones,medicines xyz which are the product for outside Pakistan but the " SYSTEM" by which the countries develop thier societies, our Ruling Elite ignore it completely.
3.ignored the justicefull distributuion of revenues b/w provinces, by solving this issue Balochistan and upcoming Sindh's issues can be solved forever.
4.ignored the " MERIT " criteria and divided the nation/nation's Bureaucracy in four segments and produced
"Black Law Quota System",now we listen "Punjabi Establishment" term,"depriviation" was the so called reason behind that law which was introduced for 10 years now it is 39 years but I do not know Either Merit is deprived or the National intersts are deprived b/w of it, plus after this law it is observered that depreviation is strengthened more after this law, well to me " 400 years " are needed to remove quota system.
4.ignored the land distribution to those landless farmers who are landless from 3 to 4 generations and have voted largerly for these both parties but are stil empty handed,as powerty on its extreme is closely realted to Rural areas which can be revolutionised.
5.ignored to create revolutions in "TAX" syetem, as by justiceful tax system the country could getrid from Aid/Loans plus the agriculture sector which contributes 25% of National economy doesnot pay a " single penny " for income Tax like if you earn 25 ,000 PKR/Month from any occupation except agriculture,you are liable for income Tax , BUT if you earn 25, 000 PKR/month or 100, 000 PKR /Month or 10,000, 000 PKR/Month from agriculture then YOUR INCOME IS INCOME TAX FREE, how injusticeful it is from 1947 or this injustice is from pre 1947 too.
Both of these parties strikes against each other for
" Ultimate Power ", If they really stand on any 3 issues described above people will support them extraordinary but how could these two take a step on above issues as by serving on these or real issues their own and Establsihment interests will be finished as all of their leaders belong to the " Feudal , Tribal Lords,Land Lords, Media tycons ,Industrialist, Investors, Top Military and Civil bureacracy , Intelligence Agencies Bureacracy , RTD civil and Military Beacracy ( who are now Feudal also ) , Top Judicicary have same interest and they just manuplate the issue do not solve it , do know PPP and PML N " were used " by Establishment to erase MQM so Establsihment always try to minimize the power of each other and certain both of these parties were happy to remove MQM as MQM was the common ones party.
I ask why these both do not stand on these issues as Pakistan is here for unsolving these issues.
I could debate more and more and explain what MQM is, but I found people are most generous for throwing allegations on MQM instead of recognising MQM on its historical ideology, policies and working when ever MQM get sny space , actually people deliberatley forget the 1947 to 1960's period , 1964, 1972 , 1974 , 1986, 1988, 1990, 1992 to 1999 , 25th,december,2007 , 31. November.2008 , Do Know only , when you want to
know
aware
analize MQM ( without having hatred, jealousy, enemity) purely and neutrally so, MQM delivered through LG system as in Pakistan to push a brick is not easy and what MQM has done in all dept of life through LG can be studied and learnt.
I will put MMQ in these 2 parties category if MQM got the C.M or P.M seats and would not do any genuine, truth full revolution for people . do know PPP and PML N " were used " by Establishment to erase MQM so Establsihment always try to minimize the power of each other and certain both of these parties were happy to remove MQM as MQM was the common ones party.
expakistani
Member
@bravogameover
Very impressive .... I mean bravo topic over!!! good job
there is always been a middle path.
but unfortunately ,being an extremist is easier than being a balanced person.
we have a very emotional society ...ppl and parties considered either Angle of Evil ...
if u love BB and Bhutto ,they are Angles for u .
and u wont listen to any one talking anything against about them ,no matter ,it be a fact .
if u hate BB and Bhutto ,then they are evils for u .
u wont listen or admit what they have actually done good for the country .
either u r extremely religious to go to jihad and fight with every one ,while keeping aside your duties to your family ...
or u r totally ignorant to religion ,rather making fun of it and has no place in your life for religion.
all our political parties carry the same kinda extremist views unfortunately .
all our liberal intellects are extremist in their Liberian and all our religious leader are stubborn in their thoughts .
it has to be a balance to be created .
sane
Member
It is very distressing to see people actually identifying themselves of a particular sect ... i am deobandi, i am hanafi, i am sunni ... please
have a liberty to research and read the work by the famous muslims scholars "Imam Shafi, Imam Jafeer, Imam Ahmad bin Hambel, Imam Malik, Imam Abu Hanifa and the list goes on and on" (May Allah Be Please With them all), they did a magnificent work by preserving the Hadeeth of Prophet Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him)
And If u cannot read them all, then just read the Glorious Quran and observer how Allah addressed this ummah.
And u will never find such words as "O sunni", or "O shiat", or "O deobandi" ... Allah has always addressed this ummah as "O u how believe".
Please throw this disease of hatred out of our society, educate yourself and try to become a better muslim and a better human being.
@Beenai:
u r very right
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
No one will EVER be able to distinguish good from bad, untill Pakistani people restore the sanctity of the court of LAW.
Untill Pakistani people adhere to LAW of the land, things will NEVER change, no matter how;
- much you talk
- many wars/military operations you fight
- modern you become
- moderate you get
Untill there is lawlessness in Pakistan, untill there is ZERO impartial, across the board, FAST! justice, you can ALL put your nose on the moon, the situation won't change, it won't turn for the better.
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
pkpolitics or friendskorner or **** or pakpoint.com or many other politics forums have existed for at least the last 1-2 years.
What have we gotten out of these forums ? Idle talk ? Idle speculation ? suspicions ? fights ?
WHAT is the OUTPUT ?!
WHERE is the CHANGE ?!
There will NEVER! be any output untill LAW of the land is IMPLEMENTED, UNTLL! people who commit crimes get punished! FAST! for those crimes, untill the leeches eating up on our country, our nation are KILLED!! mercilessly!!
You must log in to post.
