@shaagird, Why do they do matam on roads along with a long march? Can't one do it alone? Or inside?
PKPolitics Discuss » Faith and Religion
Matam
(238 posts)-
Posted 5 months ago on 10 Dec 2011 14:25 #
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shaagird
Membermaatam or juloos dou alag alag cheezein hain...
or ye donon waqaya-e-karbala ki yaad ko taaza rakhnay k liye zaroori hainagar ye matam or azadari aam na hon.... tou loge ghadeer k tarhan karbala ko bhi bhula dein ge!!!
Posted 5 months ago on 10 Dec 2011 19:36 # -
NNL
memberGv
Its your understanding that muaviya Radhi Allaah unhu did it for the lust of power right ?But then if Ali Radhi Allaah unhu was right then why did he slaughter half of his own army and half of the people of kufa where he had moved his capital. ?
They both were after the same thing pursuit of the killers of Uthman Radhi Allaah unhu but they had different views to approach it.
So before you start making claims which have no basis and amounts to insulting a Sahabi which you don't really want that in your book of deeds.
Posted 5 months ago on 10 Dec 2011 21:58 # -
NNL
memberShaahgurd
You can curse all you want but Allaah Azza Wa Jal has cursed you and your generations. You have lost this world and have definitely lost the Hereafter.
Posted 5 months ago on 10 Dec 2011 22:01 # -
sipahi
Member@NNL
@oblivionCan you please give me your definition of Sahabi of Rasool (pbuh).
Posted 5 months ago on 11 Dec 2011 2:55 # -
shaagird
Member900 choohay khaa ker billi haj ko chali..
firaun nay jaisay samander mein doobtay waqt Allah ki wahdaaniyat ko tasleem kiya thaa.... jaisay wo marnay say bach jaye gaa.....
aisay he abu sufyan or muawiya jaisay loagon nay musalmaan ka bhes pehan k munafiqat k saath islam mein ghuss k islam ko nuqsaan puhanchaya...NNL jaisay loagon k saamnay aisay musalmano ki asliyat bayan kero tou inhen buhat mirchen lagti hain.... kyun k shayad in kaa shajrah ja k aisay he malaoono say milta hai!
laanat on muawiya, yazid and abu sufyan.... baap, dada, pota... sub ek jaisay jahanummi
Posted 5 months ago on 11 Dec 2011 9:53 # -
gv
Member@nnl
'making claims that have no basis'
yep just me and a few hundred million others who must all be deluded.
anyhow thanks for the advice but i'll take my chances with my book of deeds.
Posted 5 months ago on 11 Dec 2011 14:26 # -
gv
Member@saher and shaagird
why isnt a majlis sufficient for remembering karbala?
why go over the top with matam?
if such extreme mourning was allowed than why is it that only 3 days of mourning are allowed when someone's near and dear dies.
Posted 5 months ago on 11 Dec 2011 14:29 # -
gv
Member@saher and shaagird
why isnt a majlis sufficient for remembering karbala?
why go over the top with matam?
if such extreme mourning was allowed than why is it that only 3 days of mourning are allowed when someone's near and dear dies.
Posted 5 months ago on 11 Dec 2011 14:29 # -
shaagird
Membergv
there is no 3 day mourning condition in islam!
havent u read islamic history???? the year in which hazrat abu talib and hazrat khadija died.... that whole year was called year of grief by Rasool Allah (saw)????or kia extreme hai matam ki or kia nahin.. ye wohi loge bata saktay hain jo matam kertay hon... matam kernay k liye himmat, hosla or faith chahiye....
agar koi aap ko khanjar say kaat day... tou wo takleef or hoti hai.... or matam kernay k baad jo kaifiyat hoti hai wo or hoti hai....
is liye aap comparison ker he nahin saktay...majlis or matam haalaankay 2 alag alag cheezein hain.. lekin ye inter connected hain....
matam k baghair majlis ho nahin sakti.... or baghair majlis k maatam nahin ho sakta...
ye juloos falsafaye-e-hussaini ko farogh detay hain... puri duniyan mein loge gham-e-hussain manatay hain... or la zawal qurbani ko ahle-bait ne di us ko taaza rakhtay hain....Posted 5 months ago on 11 Dec 2011 19:57 # -
blackvoid
Member@Shaahgurd
You can curse all you want but Allaah Azza Wa Jal has cursed you and your generations. You have lost this world and have definitely lost the Hereafter.
In this world the lantees are self beating/matam and in the akhira we all know what is going to happen to these fitnas that is the nasal of yahoodi abdullah ibnah e sabah.
shaagird said
quote/firaun nay jaisay samander mein doobtay waqt Allah ki wahdaaniyat ko tasleem kiya thaa\quotewhy are you giving references from this quran when your imaginative imam is hiding with your imaginative book.
quote/or la zawal qurbani ko ahle-bait ne di us ko taaza rakhtay hain.... \quote
lol.. and after the fictional/biddah addition/mourning and stories they celebrate eid. no wonders shiaism can also come up with another kufar of their own interpretation.
Posted 5 months ago on 11 Dec 2011 21:07 # -
sipahi
Member@blackvoid
@NNL
@oblivionCan you please give me your definition of Sahabi of Rasool (pbuh).
Posted 5 months ago on 12 Dec 2011 1:46 # -
shaagird
Member@blackvoid
in case, u havent read the above posts, saher in one post gave a reference on hazrat umer doing matam on someone's death... go back and look for it if you want....and may be you can then reconsider calling him a you called the matamdaars in your latest post, i.e, laantee!!!
shame on you!!!!! you have cursed the 2nd caliph!!!!!!
shame on you!!!!
how low can you stoop??????Allah ki laanat ho jhootay pe!
and blackvoid, dont give black and void statements, lies..
i gave reference from Quran because that is my Holy Book...Posted 5 months ago on 12 Dec 2011 5:24 # -
shafiq12
memberسپاہی
صحابی وہ شخص ہے جس نےایمان کی حالت میں نبی کریم کو براہ راست سنا یا دیکھا ہوPosted 5 months ago on 12 Dec 2011 6:45 # -
sipahi
Member@oblivion
Pardon my ignorance, what is "amaan key halat" امان کیا حالت ?
Posted 5 months ago on 12 Dec 2011 6:54 # -
shafiq12
memberthere is differnece between eman and islam
"Mumin: The one who really believes by heart. Its antonym in Munafiq i.e. hypocrite or an "unbeliever".
Muslim: The one who claims to believe in Islam and surrenders to Allah and the Prophet صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم. It's antonym is ""Kafir" the one who denies.---
When i said, In state of Eman, it means Mumin...
i hope it would help
for further understanding please visitPosted 5 months ago on 12 Dec 2011 7:01 # -
shafiq12
memberspahi
ایمان کی حالت... it is
Posted 5 months ago on 12 Dec 2011 7:05 # -
shafiq12
membersipiahi
Here more accurate definition, I hope it would clear all of your doubts.صحابی وہ شخص ہے جس نےایمان کی حالت میں نبی کریم کو براہ راست سنا یا دیکھا ہو-- اور امان کی حالت میں اس کا خاتمہ ہوا ہو
Posted 5 months ago on 12 Dec 2011 11:40 # -
shaagird
Memberhow do you knowk kon eemaan ki haalat mein thaa or kon nahin???????
tum Khuda ho kiya jo loagon k dil ka haal maloom hai tumhein?????jo sachay musalmaan sahaba-e-karam thay... jaisay hazrat bilal.. wo bila shuba intehai muhtaram shakhsiyat theen....
lekin muawiya jaisay munafiq... jin ka kirdar kuch or thaa.... or zuban pe kuch or hota thaa.... herkaat kuch or... aisay loagon ko sir pe kyun bithatay ho....
aisay laanti k khilaaf ek lafz tum ko gawara nahin....lekin ahle-bait, jin ko Allah khud, or us k farishtay durood bhejtay hain, un say itna bughz hai tumhe..
Posted 5 months ago on 12 Dec 2011 14:32 # -
sipahi
Member@oblivion
Thanks for your definition.
Unfortunately, the definition raises a question. This is because, an ordinary person like me does not have capability to look into heart of a muslim, as to whether he/she is Momin or Munafiq.
Has either Allah (SWT) or our Prophet (pbuh) given us a 'measure' to test who is Momin or Munafiq?
If 'measure' has been given, what is the 'measure'?
Posted 5 months ago on 13 Dec 2011 0:28 # -
shafiq12
membersipahi @ shaagird
You dont seem to understand.... The person himself knows how much emaan he has in his heart... When i used the term Emaan, it doesn't mean i am judging someone's faith.... Sahabi are those people who remained faithful to Allah, His prophet and his message and did't violate any part of message by their will...as long as they remain in this world.... Eman is inward promise and if you don't show fullfillment to inward promise in the outward world then you aren't momin... Take simple example of Abu Bakar, Umer, Usman, Ali, (may allah be please with them all)... All were called sahabis because they didn't violate any part Allah's message by their will. I know Shias wouldn't agree what i am saying because they follow their own interpretations...Posted 5 months ago on 13 Dec 2011 4:04 # -
sipahi
Member@oblivion
But by your definition of Sahabi, a muslim without emaan during the life of our Prophet (pbuh) and at his own death cannot be considered as Sahabi.
Allah (SWT) has declared in Sura Munafiqoon,
[Yusufali 63:1] When the Hypocrites come to thee, they say, "We bear witness that thou art indeed the Messenger of Allah." Yea, Allah knoweth that thou art indeed His Messenger, and Allah beareth witness that the Hypocrites are indeed liars.
That means some of those who declared that they are muslims during the life of our Prophet (pbuh) do not have emaan in their heart and are actually munafaqeen.
The problem is, an ordinary person like me does not have capability to look into heart of a muslim living at the time of our Prophet (pbuh)or now, as to whether he/she is Momin or Munafiq.
We should try to research, has either Allah (SWT) or our Prophet (pbuh) given us a 'measure' to test who is Momin or Munafiq?
If 'measure' has been given, what is the 'measure'?
That means, unless we find that "measure" and use that "measure", we might be considering people referenced in the above ayat as Sahabi, but actually they are munafaqeen.
Posted 5 months ago on 13 Dec 2011 4:37 # -
shafiq12
memberThat means some of those who declared that they are muslims during the life of our Prophet (pbuh) do not have emaan in their heart and are actually munafaqeen.
Again you're not understanding. It doesn't mean they're manfaqeen. They are muslim but you can't consider them momin. The term sahabi is used exclusively for pure Mumoneen.
Surah Hujurat Verse 14:
The bedouins say: "We believe." Say: "You believe not but you only say, 'We have surrendered (in Islâm),' for Faith has not yet entered your hearts. But if you obey Allâh and His Messenger (SAW), He will not decrease anything in reward for your deeds. Verily, Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."
That means, unless we find that "measure" and use that "measure", we might be considering people referenced in the above ayat as Sahabi, but actually they are munafaqeen.
Here again you are confusing, Momin, muslim and munfiq. All Sahabi were pure class of momins. Simple is that
Posted 5 months ago on 13 Dec 2011 5:03 # -
blackvoid
Membersha gurd
You have your own amended references/hadeeths and you are waiting for your imaginative imam to bring the real holy book and here you are asking me to read your posted reference even if it's real?
your evil intentions to attack sahabas RZ. naozobillah is clearly present here. Shame on you for calling yourself muslim.
First you need to make tauba then believe on all sahaba RZ only then you can ask me to read references that you dont understand in your condition of jahalat.
Haq per chal, biddat per chal, gumaan per chal, stories per chal, ya kufar per chal. Yanee,jis rah per tu chalna chahta hai khuda tujhay usee rastay per laga daiga.Agar koi tere peeth per 3 daffah haath maaray tau tu samujh laina blackvoid( real momin) ka matlab ya real momin ka jawab.
baki gumaan karnay aur gumrah honay mai tau tu master hi hai.Posted 5 months ago on 13 Dec 2011 6:32 # -
shaagird
Memberlol
AGAR.....!!yehi tou tumhari ghalti hai... munafiqon ko sahabiyon ka tag laga k galay laga k baithay ho!
jo asal mein ansaar-e-rasool (saw) hain, wo bila shuba muhtaram hain, nihayat azeem hain....lekin muawiya jaisay kamtar loagon ko itna ooncha rutba dena, sahabi honay k darjay ki tazleel hai
so u better behave.... and open your eyes...
warna muawiyan malaoon jaisa he anjaam hoga tumharaPosted 5 months ago on 13 Dec 2011 15:10 # -
sipahi
Member@oblivion
"Again you're not understanding. It doesn't mean they're manfaqeen. They are muslim but you can't consider them momin. The term sahabi is used exclusively for pure Mumoneen."
Are you denying Sura Munafaqeen:
[Yusufali 63:1] When the Hypocrites come to thee, they say, "We bear witness that thou art indeed the Messenger of Allah." Yea, Allah knoweth that thou art indeed His Messenger, and Allah beareth witness that the Hypocrites are indeed liars.
This clearly state that Munafaqeen, who declared themselves as muslim/ momin, existed during the life of our Prophet (pbuh).
"Here again you are confusing, Momin, muslim and munfiq. All Sahabi were pure class of momins. Simple is that "
What is your reasoning that the person you call Sahabi had emaan and died with emaan? You can't make the declaration of sahabi without subsantiating that they measure up.
Unless, you can prove on person by person basis that said person had emaan and died with emaan, you cannot claim that person to be Sahabi, by your own definition.
That is why, we need to research whether has either Allah (SWT) or our Prophet (pbuh) given us a 'measure' to test who is Momin or Munafiq?.
Posted 5 months ago on 13 Dec 2011 23:54 # -
When in Siffin the men of Mu`awiyah overpowered the
men of Amir al-mu'minin and occupied the bank of River
Euphrates and prevented them from taking its water, Amir
al-mu'minin said:
They[1] are asking you morsels of battle. So either you remain in offensive behavior and the lowest position or drench your swords with blood and quench your thirst with water. Real death is in the life of subjugation while real life is in dying as subjugators. Beware, Mu`awiyah is leading a small group of rebellious and has kept them in dark about the true facts with the result that they have made their bosoms the targets of death.
NAJH AL BALAGHAH SERMON 51Posted 5 months ago on 14 Dec 2011 16:37 # -
Footnotes by translator:
[1].Amir al-mu'minin had not reached Siffin when Mu
awiyah posted forty thousand men on the bank of the River to close the way to the watering place, so that none except the Syrians could take the water. When Amir al-mu'mimin's force alighted there they found that there was no watering place except this one for them to take water. If there was one it was difficult to reach there by crossing high hillocks. Amir al-mu'minin sent Sasaah ibn Suhan al-Abdi to Muawiyah with the request to raise the control over water. Muawiyah refused. On this side Amir al-mu'minin's army was troubled by thirst. When Amir al-mu'minin noticed this position he said, "Get up and secure water by dint of sword." Consequently, these thirsty persons drew their swords out of sheaths, put arrows in their bows and dispersing Mu`awiyah's men went right down into the River and then hit these guards away and occupied the watering place themselves.Now, Amir al-mu'minin's men also desired that just as Mu`awiyah had put restriction on water by occupation of the watering place, the same treatment should be accorded to him and his men and no Syrian should be allowed water and everyone of them should be made to die of thirst. But Amir al-mu'minin said, "Do you want to take the same brutal step which these Syrians had taken? Never prevent anyone from water. Whoever wants to drink, may drink and whoever wants to take away may take away." Consequently, despite occupation of the River by Amir al-mu'minin's army no one was prevented from the water and everyone was given full liberty to take water.
Posted 5 months ago on 14 Dec 2011 16:38 # -
shafiq12
memberPosted 5 months ago on 16 Dec 2011 9:24 # -
sipahi
Member@oblivion
I am still looking for you to explain how you get out of your circular logic that "Sahabi is the one with emaan and all sahabis had emaan".
Please see my post. Posted 3 days ago on 13 Dec 2011 23:54 #
http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/matam/page/5#post-287688Posted 5 months ago on 17 Dec 2011 2:28 # -
shaagird
Memberlol... all this mullah has to do is come up on TV and say rubbish about shias..... while the US, which has the remote control of these mullahs is spanking these mullahs and their brainless supporters....
good to see them used like toilet paper by their master, US
Posted 5 months ago on 17 Dec 2011 11:14 # -
how do he know the strategy of shias ? is he spy?
its apatheticPosted 5 months ago on 17 Dec 2011 12:54 # -
how does he knows the strategy of shias? is he a spy?
its apatheticPosted 5 months ago on 17 Dec 2011 16:50 # -
Abdul Rahman
Member"good to see them used like toilet paper by their master, US "
Whose master? Those Mullahs may be agents but the biggest agents are the Ayatollahs who grabbed power in Iraq thru their masters invasion. That is nothing new. They have been playing same tricks stabbing in the Ummah in back since the days of Safavids. But rest assured their usurped "power" will not last long.
Posted 5 months ago on 19 Dec 2011 23:58 # -
aneeza4u
BlockedAR Sb,
Care to read some history of Iraq (especially from 1920's to 1940's) !
Once you're done then revert and tell us who grabbed power with the help of Britishers then ? :)
"""the Ummah"""
Tell us who's and who's not included in 'the ummah' !
Posted 5 months ago on 20 Dec 2011 5:24 # -
shafiq12
membersipahi
Are you denying Sura Munafaqeen:
[Yusufali 63:1] When the Hypocrites come to thee, they say, "We bear witness that thou art indeed the Messenger of Allah." Yea, Allah knoweth that thou art indeed His Messenger, and Allah beareth witness that the Hypocrites are indeed liars.This clearly state that Munafaqeen, who declared themselves as muslim/ momin, existed during the life of our Prophet (pbuh).
Who is stating this?
Posted 5 months ago on 20 Dec 2011 6:17 # -
sipahi
Member@oblivion
So you agree that Munafaqeen existed during the life of our Prophet (pbuh), that is great. This means we cannot accept people as Sahabi, just because they existed during life of our Prophet (pbuh).
We need to test them against a measure, which has been given by Allah (SWT) and our Prophet (pbuh).Posted 5 months ago on 23 Dec 2011 5:13 # -
shafiq12
membersipahi..
I don't think you're understanding me the verse you picked[Yusufali 63:1] When the Hypocrites come to thee, they say, "We bear witness that thou art indeed the Messenger of Allah." Yea, Allah knoweth that thou art indeed His Messenger, and Allah beareth witness that the Hypocrites are indeed liars.
It is Allah who is telling Prophet Muhammad, who are hypocrites, Prophet himself didn't know about... Even no one knows in this world who is hypocrite...
صحابی وہ شخص ہے جس نےایمان کی حالت میں نبی کریم کو براہ راست سنا یا دیکھا ہو-- اور امان کی حالت میں اس کا خاتمہ ہوا ہوand my definition is directly related to those companions who dont comes into the definition of hypocrites...
Now come to your quotesSo you agree that Munafaqeen existed during the life of our Prophet (pbuh), that is great.
Please tell where i deny that munafaqeen didn't exist in Prophet Times... There were three classes of People during times of Prophet Muhammad. They were 1. Momineen 2. Muslims 3. Munafiqeen... I am saying sahabi is title related to pure class of momineen...
All the Sahaba-e- Ikrams had the Aqeedah and Imaan in their hearts during and after departure of Prophet Muhammad.Posted 5 months ago on 23 Dec 2011 5:28 # -
sipahi
Member@oblivion
You are right, it is not possible for a common person to know who is Munafiq.
Thus, a possibility exists that some of those whom one might consider as Sahabi are really Munafiq. A common person cannot look inside the heart of a person to see if he was Momin during the life of our Prophet (pbuh) and dies momin.
Only was to find Munafiq is to first find out a measure which determines Munafiqat.
Posted 5 months ago on 23 Dec 2011 5:38 #
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