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Memo Applications Are maintainable CJ Iftikhar

(83 posts)
12

  1. sipahi
    Member

    @SA

    "In fact SC has made itself a laughing stock by passing this judgement."

    You are incorrect, majority of Pakistanis respect SC for setting up a high level judicial commision.

    Nobody is being prosecuted with setting up of commission. It is only investigating, no trial of any accused, whether there is fire behind all smoke. Question of appeal does not come into play. If, in the event, criminal indictment results based on this investigation. That person will have a trial at a lower court and the results of that trial can be appealed at all higher levels including SC. Thus, no fundamental right is being violated.

    Regarding Canadian citizens, I thought Pakistanis with Canadian Passport have dual citizenship.

    Based on the content of "memo" , it is right of every Pakistani what is behind that memo.

    Posted 4 months ago on 31 Dec 2011 18:04 #

  2. Sharif Aadmi
    Member

    sipahi

    Can you please tell that which fundamental right of applicants has been violated ??

    Posted 4 months ago on 31 Dec 2011 18:08 #

  3. Sharif Aadmi
    Member

    And further to your point if a commission comprisng of 3 senior most chief justices finds a person culprit , how he would be able to get a fair trial in the lower court ?

    Posted 4 months ago on 31 Dec 2011 18:10 #

  4. sipahi
    Member

    @SA

    Again, three CJs will will not determine guilt, they will just say whether any criminal proceedings should start in a lower court.

    Lower court based on the evidence presented can determine guilt or innocence.

    Posted 4 months ago on 31 Dec 2011 18:33 #

  5. Sharif Aadmi
    Member

    Siphai sahib,

    Once a commision comprising 3 honourabe Cj's declares that there is sufficient evidence that a crime has occured and criminal proceedings should take place , which lower court can overrule the findings of its Cj's ?

    Apart , first thing is that which fundamental right of peitioner has been violated ?

    Posted 4 months ago on 31 Dec 2011 18:58 #

  6. Sharif Aadmi
    Member

    following is text of article 184 (3)

    '
    Without prejudice to the provisions of Article 199, the Supreme Court shall, if it considers that a question of public importance with reference to the enforcement of any of the Fundamental Rights conferred by Chapter I of Part II is involved, have the power to make an order of the nature mentioned in the said Article.
    '

    Now tell that which fundamental right of the petitioners has been violated by writing a memo ?

    Posted 4 months ago on 31 Dec 2011 19:01 #

  7. Dusky
    Member

    @sipahi: "Nobody is being prosecuted with setting up of commission. It is only investigating, no trial of any accused, whether there is fire behind all smoke."

    Sipahi bhai, do you really think it's supreme court portage to run the "investigations"? Since when they become the police? And if they run the investigation where the accused go for trials? And if they get back to them for trial, would they be able to overrule the findings of their own "investigations"?

    Posted 4 months ago on 31 Dec 2011 19:14 #

  8. gujjartalwar
    Member

    It is a fundamental right of every citizen that people in power will not sell national interests for their mean designs.
    Zaradri & Co. appear to have conspired to compromise national sovereignty. Courts must examine that.

    Posted 4 months ago on 31 Dec 2011 19:14 #

  9. Pakistani Expat
    Member

    Sending Memos to USA and UK is not a new phenomenon in Pakistan:

    A memo was written to Senator Peter Galbraith on 24-09-1990

    http://www.pakistanideology.com/pakistan-news/benazir_bhutto_pakistan_pm/

    As a result, the military aid to Pakistan was suspended. The F-16s for which Pakistan had already paid were withheld by US government.

    Similarly, another memo was written to Tony Blair, the Prime Minister of UK on 23-09-2001.

    http://www.thenews.com.pk/TodaysPrintDetail.aspx?ID=8543&Cat=13

    Is this the patriotism of PPP and MQM?

    Posted 4 months ago on 31 Dec 2011 19:14 #

  10. Dusky
    Member

    Gujjar Talwar:
    "It is a fundamental right of every citizen that people in power will not sell national interests for their mean designs.
    Zaradri & Co. appear to have conspired to compromise national sovereignty. Courts must examine that."

    Gujjar, if we go with this logic then they should investigate all, why selective cases only? As cases Pakistani Ex mention and also the allegations by CIA officer on Shahbaz Sharif visit of USA where he **** about Pak army when NS was sitting PM. Why pick only one?

    Posted 4 months ago on 31 Dec 2011 19:23 #

  11. Sharif Aadmi
    Member

    Also , my fundamental right of security has been undermined by BAHDUR FAUJ by giving OBL safe heavens in abbottabad.

    I think its a lot more concrete case as the crime has occured within geogaphical jurisdiction of pakistan.

    GT
    '
    Zaradri & Co. appear to have conspired to compromise national sovereignty.
    '

    First u need to prove your allegation. And if proven than a violation of fundamnetal right happens. Till proven its mere allegation levelled by u and doesn't constitute any violation of any law or right.

    Posted 4 months ago on 31 Dec 2011 19:46 #

  12. gujjartalwar
    Member

    “First u need to prove your allegation. And if proven than a violation of fundamnetal right happens. Till proven its mere allegation levelled by u and doesn't constitute any violation of any law or right. “

    I think your logic is backward. The court has made correct orders. Let the investigation happen and go from there. Until an investigation is done, you cannot claim a violation has not occurred.

    Posted 4 months ago on 31 Dec 2011 19:58 #

  13. Sharif Aadmi
    Member

    GT

    Basic principle of law is and will remain

    'NOT GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN OTHERWISE'

    When courts selectively apply unique logic (as SC has according to u ) , they loose credibility and become laughing stock.

    Posted 4 months ago on 01 Jan 2012 1:05 #

  14. gujjartalwar
    Member

    'NOT GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN OTHERWISE'

    Agreed. Nobody has been declared guilty. Investigation will determine that. I think PPP, not the court, appear to be confirming their guilt by trying to thwart the inquiry.

    Posted 4 months ago on 01 Jan 2012 1:46 #

  15. Sharif Aadmi
    Member

    GT

    So , u conceede that no violation of funamdnetal rights has occured. Right ?

    So , how could SC intervene then under article 184 (3) which deals with the violation of fundamental rights.

    Points is that since no violation of fundamental rights has occured, these petitions were never maintainable.

    Posted 4 months ago on 01 Jan 2012 1:59 #

  16. gujjartalwar
    Member

    "So , u conceede that no violation of funamdnetal rights has occured. Right ? "

    No, I don't concede anything. It is to be determined from the inquiry.

    Posted 4 months ago on 01 Jan 2012 2:20 #

  17. bsobaid
    Member

    All those who are favoring sc,s decision will condem it one day.....

    Just like former iji members now condemn establishment.

    Kisi ne sahee kaha hai, shareefoo ko baat samajh mein aajaati hai, laikin time guzarnay kay baad.

    Posted 4 months ago on 01 Jan 2012 3:13 #

  18. gujjartalwar
    Member

    "Kisi ne sahee kaha hai, shareefoo ko baat samajh mein aajaati hai, laikin time guzarnay kay baad."

    Shareefoo'n ko choriay, PPP ki fikr kejiay! Unko to kabhi smajh naheen aati.

    Posted 4 months ago on 01 Jan 2012 3:20 #

  19. sipahi
    Member

    @SA

    I have very high respect of Justice Saeed u Zaman Siddiqi and Justice Wajihuddin; both of them refused to take oath under GM.
    To my knowledge, both of them have an opinion that petition of the nature filed has grounds.
    My knowledge of constitution dwarfs in front of them. Thus, I would rather be on their side than on side of Ms. Jilani and Mr. Awan.

    Posted 4 months ago on 01 Jan 2012 4:20 #

  20. Sharif Aadmi
    Member

    Siphai,

    I also have a lot of regards for both. They have an equal right to form an oponion.

    In fact verdict of SC has already come . NOw pros and cons of verdict r being discussed.

    By accepting these peitions , SC has opened a flood gate.

    NOw tomorrow , i go to SC and say that Mr.X told me that PM & president discussed abc matter and have considered different options. Since i think that it has violated my fundamenal rgihts, SC shoould investigate it under article 184 (3) .

    u see, in this,

    a) I don't need to prove that which fundamenal right has been violated.

    b) I don't need to prove that any such discussion ever occured or not .

    This is what percislely this decision is.

    CJ has been insisting that nobody has denied the exisencse of memoo. OOk . A memo was written by an American Citizen to an American Ciizen / Official outside the territory of Pakistan. HOw does it breaches my fundamental right ?

    Posted 4 months ago on 01 Jan 2012 6:33 #

  21. sipahi
    Member

    @SA

    There is two major differences between your example and the memo sent to Mullen.

    1. Ijaz has shared enough information about his exchanges with Haqqani with SC, including pin numbers of Haqqani Blackberry, that there was enough smoke to check, if there were actual exchanges between Ijaz and Haqqani. How Ijaz has pin numbers of three Blackberrys of Haqqani?
    Since, presence of smoke was confirmed, SC was obliged to check if there is fire.

    2. Memo was accepted by the recepient of USA government that it was received via Ijaz. And the content have few things including regarding Nuclear Assets, which are against security of Pakistan.

    Posted 4 months ago on 01 Jan 2012 6:51 #

  22. sipahi
    Member

    @ PTI / IK friends

    We know the views of PML (N) & PPP on the decision by SC to form HC Commission.
    What is the view of IK and PTI?

    Posted 4 months ago on 02 Jan 2012 4:36 #

  23. Sharif Aadmi
    Member

    Siphai,
    '
    1) How Ijaz has pin numbers of three Blackberrys of Haqqani?
    '

    ooh bahi , yeh konsa pin haai ???

    2) My example is perfectly valid . Mansoor Ijaz is an american citizen and has wrote to another american citizen / official. Both acknowledge this. NOw , what they wrote and discussed, how does that affect my or your fundamental right in pakistan ?

    Since when 'National security' or 'nuclear program' has become fundamenal right and under which article of constituion ?

    Posted 4 months ago on 02 Jan 2012 14:11 #

  24. Pakistani84
    Blocked

    The so-called anti-est pundits are showing scorn for the SC and siding with a controversial lawyer who has a very bad reputation in Pakistan, and who by her very act of insulting the courts, has exposed her true self.

    These so-called anti-est pundits live in the west and therefore heap scorn on Pakistani institutions.

    To educate them, if the president of United States of America, Obama, were to write a memo to Russia to control American military, that would be considered treason of the highest order in America.

    These so-called anti-est pundits are lame and have no idea of Pakistan.

    The "bloody civilians" will control their army through electing a credible government which delivers. They will not put more weight behind crooks like Zardari and NS who can never control anything since they have no legitimacy among Pakistanis.

    Posted 4 months ago on 02 Jan 2012 15:28 #

  25. sipahi
    Member

    @SA

    You might want to listen to Islamabad Tonight and view of
    Justice Saeed u Zaman Siddiqi about applicability of 184.

    http://pkpolitics.com/2012/01/02/islamabad-tonight-2-january-2012/

    Posted 4 months ago on 03 Jan 2012 3:01 #

  26. Sharif Aadmi
    Member

    Pakistani84

    'o educate them, if the president of United States of America, Obama, were to write a memo to Russia to control American military, that would be considered treason of the highest order in America.
    "

    Bahi mian,
    To try him of high treason , first it needs to be established that he has written a memo.

    Secondly ,
    'The "bloody civilians" will control their army through electing a credible government which delivers
    '
    Whoever BLOODY CIVLIANS elect is credible , whether AZ , NS or Kaaala choor.

    Posted 4 months ago on 03 Jan 2012 4:10 #

  27. blacksheep
    Member

    ^^^^
    شریف آدمی صاحب۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔
    آپ کے خیالات پڑھ کر اچھا لگا۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔ آپ کی ملٹری اسٹیبلشمنٹ کے بارے میں سوچ بہت واضح ہے۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔ آپ واقعی شیخ رشیدوں سے بھرے ہوئے اس فورم پر گنے چنے ایاز امیر میں سے ایک ہو۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔ ورنہ تو یہاں ایک سے بڑھ کر ایک اسٹیبلشمنٹ لیگ کا نمائندہ ہے۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔

    ;-) :-) ;-)

    Posted 4 months ago on 03 Jan 2012 4:25 #

  28. Sharif Aadmi
    Member

    blacksheep bahi,

    thx for appreciation.

    I don't speak for anybody . I speak for myself , my duties and my rights as a citizen of Pakistan.

    All members on the forum are very honourable persons and are entitled to their oponion. Unfortunatley over the last 64 years, we as a nation have been brain washed to malign the political process and worship UNIFORMED ANGELS under the doctorine of national secuirty which has become pain in the a$$ for our masses.

    Posted 4 months ago on 03 Jan 2012 4:49 #

  29. blacksheep
    Member

    ^^^^
    آپ صحیح کہہ رہے ہیں کہ یہاں کے تقریباً تمام ہی لوگ قابلِ احترام ہیں اور اپنا ایک ذاتی موقف رکھنے کے حقدار ہیں۔۔۔۔۔۔۔ لیکن میرا کہنا یہ ہے کہ پچھلے ساٹھ سالوں سے اس پالیسی پر چلتے ہوئے اس کے نقصانات اٹھانے کے بعد بھی ابھی تک انہی خاکی سوراخوں سے ڈسے جانے کو پھر تیار ہوتے ہیں۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔
    ایک دفعہ ہو تو غلطی کہی جاسکتی ہے لیکن بار بار ہونے کے بعد تو یقیناً بے وقوفی ہی کہا جائیگا۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔
    ;-) :-) ;-)

    شریف آدمی صاحب۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔
    مجھے کچھ کچھ یاد پڑتا ہے کہ ہماری محبِ وطن افواج کی شان میں گستاخی کرنے کے قبیح جرم میں آمرِ ڈسکستان ایس ای مرزا صاحب نے آپ پر کچھ دفعہ ٩٢١١ وغیرہ لگائیں تھی۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔
    ;-)

    Posted 4 months ago on 03 Jan 2012 4:59 #

  30. Sharif Aadmi
    Member

    Bahi Black sheep,

    Its basically consstant maligning of poliican and praising of UNIFORMED ANGELS which has resulted in this. Tahs why i used term 'Brain Washed'.

    Its something like as our media so much coverage to criciket that every other sport whether national game hockey or squash or boxing or whatever , is totally lost from the minds of masses.

    Baqi, Allah mirza sahib ko khush o khurrum rakhey. Woh mehrabni kartey rahtey thay. Abb woh yahan majood nahi , iss barey mein baat karna munasib nahi lagta :)

    Posted 4 months ago on 03 Jan 2012 5:16 #

  31. blacksheep
    Member

    ^^^^
    آپ اگر فرنٹ پیج پر بھی لکھیں تو خوشی ہوگی۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔
    :-)
    http://pkpolitics.com/2012/01/01/visitors-views-news-%E2%80%93-january-20121/

    Posted 4 months ago on 03 Jan 2012 5:27 #

  32. Bawa
    Member

    @ Sharif Aadmi
    Baqi, Allah mirza sahib ko khush o khurrum rakhey. Woh mehrabni kartey rahtey thay. Abb woh yahan majood nahi , iss barey mein baat karna munasib nahi lagta :)

    آپکے ریمارکس انتہائی قابل تعریف ہیں

    یہ باتیں ایک سمجھدار آدمی کو باوقار اور با احترام مقام دلاتی ہیں اور اسکو جاہلوں سے بلند سطح پر لے جاتی ہیں

    مکھن لگانے والوں سے ہوشیار رہیں گے تو زندگی میں ہمیشہ کامیاب و کامران رہیں گے

    میری دعائیں آپ کے ساتھ ہیں

    Posted 4 months ago on 03 Jan 2012 5:36 #

  33. Pakistani84
    Blocked

    @SA,

    Yes, and that is why SC has set up a commission which will be investigating the issue. IF Zardari has indeed written the memo, he has committed treason.

    As for whoever gets elected by the people, the crooks like NS and Zardari were never genuinely elected.

    NS was imposed on Pakistan by the same military est you hate. As for Zardari, NRO is the deal.

    Posted 4 months ago on 03 Jan 2012 12:34 #

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