PKPolitics Discuss » Social and Cultural Issues

Mullahs and Heretics - Tariq Ali

(15 posts)
  1. have been reading tariq ali's wondrous works this evening...

    thought to share this piece re. his agnosticism and aversion to religion. although i am v.content as a muslim much of what is stagnant with the practice of deen today, is described eloquently by mr. ali....

    it may be a good discussion starter, as long as mods are not offended by it's anti-religious flavour.

    here's the link as it is way too long to cut and paste.

    i thoroughly enjoyed the read, just wish Mulla was on the forum to offer his opinions too.

    JS Sahib, hope you also appreciate the piece!

    http://www.lrb.co.uk/v24/n03/tariq-ali/mullahs-and-heretics

    Posted 2 years ago on 06 Nov 2009 1:06 #
  2. amin1924
    member

    I see, so he is atheist because his parents and people around him were atheists.

    Posted 2 years ago on 06 Nov 2009 2:10 #
  3. yep, like so many are muslim due to parents and people and lesser extent through thought and choice

    Posted 2 years ago on 06 Nov 2009 2:11 #
  4. amin1924
    member

    True, but you see a child can get basic set of belief during childhood and later he builds a 'system' around it.

    Tariq Ali may have inherited atheist belief from parents but he opted for socialist system in his own capacity.

    Same goes with Muslims, we are born in different conditions but grow ourselves in different directions.

    Posted 2 years ago on 06 Nov 2009 2:30 #
  5. gv
    Member

    @oriel

    good piece thanks for that

    @jj

    so were you always so sanctimonious or did you have to practice??

    Posted 2 years ago on 06 Nov 2009 16:57 #
  6. amin1924
    member

    gv,

    let us enjoy the article and keep focus on the subject, not me.

    Posted 2 years ago on 06 Nov 2009 17:10 #
  7. Migel9
    Member

    What is amazing, when ever Tariq Ali dies,The Mullah will perform the islamic burrial triditions.No Agnostic priest then??He does have his views and he is entitled to way of thinking.

    Human mind is always disputing almighty s signs.

    Posted 2 years ago on 06 Nov 2009 19:53 #
  8. Ghareeb
    Old-chechen

    It depends on his last will. He may have opted for cremation which is very common for atheists. BTW, there is a separate graveyard in London where known communists are buried. The ex-KGB spy Alexander Litvinenko was buried there but Muslim Imam came forward and gave him a Muslim burial at the last moment. His father and Wife did not prevent that Muslim funeral saying that he had embraced Islam at death bed.

    Hope Tariq does the same.

    Posted 2 years ago on 06 Nov 2009 20:43 #
  9. zia m
    Member

    Unlike Tariq Ali i don't know enough to be an atheist, but i do know enough about different religions in not to believe in them.
    Most of my life i have been very close to what Tariq Ali calls "superstitious idiot".During last couple of years i have been very interested in Islamic civilization and reasons for its downfall.I was puzzled why Europeans were succesful in reformation after borrowing ideas from great Muslim thinkers like Al-Kindi,Ibn-Sina and Ibn Rushd. Why it failed to take root in Muslim society?
    I thought one of the reason was spread of information and this article by Tariq Ali confirmed my suspicion.He writes...

    " The tolerance shown to Jews and Protestants was rarely, if ever, extended to heretics within Islam, however. The mullahs ensured that punishment was brutal and swift. To deter heresies they jealously safeguarded their monopoly of information and power, opposing all moves to import a printing press to Istanbul. ‘Remember Martin Luther,’ the qadi warned the Sultan. The Reformation could be supported because it served to divide Christianity, but the very idea of a Muslim Luther was unacceptable. The clerics knew the early history of Islam and were determined not to repeat it."
    So,in order to preserve the caliphate they destroyed the Islamic civilization.I hope we will learn from history.
    They were succesful in keeping out the printing press but now there is a whole new frontier "the internet".
    I remain very optimistic for our future.I know we have enough rational thinkers.

    Oriel,thanks for the link.

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Nov 2009 4:07 #
  10. amin1924
    member

    superstitions!

    Tariq Ali can't say that the creations around him got into existence by itself or the science has to yet find out where all this matter came into existence from.

    To avoid this key question they start from an assumption to sidetrack the questions they can't answer. Just assume that matter has always been there and then build the story on top of all this flawed assumption -superstition!

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Nov 2009 4:30 #
  11. zia m
    Member

    Science never claims to have all the answers it is not dogmatic like religions are.Science belives in empirical evidence.Scientific method was originaly put forth by Muslim scientist like Ibn Haytham.They always have to be skeptics.

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Nov 2009 4:40 #
  12. amin1924
    member

    Don't want to take the discussion into what science claims and what science doesn't claim.

    Muslim scientists were curious on how things worked, not skeptical on existence of creator.

    Allah SWT encourages believers to ponder on how things work, there are numerous verses that encourage believers to study the universe.

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Nov 2009 4:51 #
  13. zia m
    Member

    You are entitled to your opinion.The article was about heretics and Mulla.The scientists were declared heretics by the ignorant mulla.
    End of discussion.

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Nov 2009 5:03 #
  14. Ghareeb
    Old-chechen

    Scientists believe in observation and ridicule divine revelation. If one does that he is committing blasphemy and therefore the learned Mullah's are right. Learned Mullah can answer more questions concerning evolution and life and death compared to heretical scientists.

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Nov 2009 5:35 #
  15. This article is an excerpt from Tariq Ali's book "The clash of fundamentalism". A very interesting book.

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Nov 2009 18:34 #

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