in my view.
Mushrraf is the major culprit and should be hold responsible for the situation we are in today.
today, time has proved that Mush decision was wrong.
Mush was wrong to support USA.
we took the fire into our own home .
we got our 35 thousand ppl died.
we got the Taliban guns on our side.
and now
we are still at the point.
where
USA is threatening us to send us to the stone age.
shafiq12
member
Alas, Beenai, you are late
shaagird
Member
ziaulhaq!
expakistani
Member
wow such a smart analysis ... how come we not blaming Zia ul haq whose policy was to import Islamist terrorist from all over the world to fight American war in Afgnistan.
or naseer ullah baber who helped Talibans or over the years our support for Anti india elements?
We basically created "Anarki" and fitna in the name of Jihad.
Musharaf was only a small part of problem... he decision to help American just delayed the process which we are seeing.
expakistani,
the situation got worsen just because of mushrraf.
Zia was a culprit in his own capacity.
but Mush got the WOT (war on terror) fire in the county.
Mush is a bigger culprit any day by any means.
Dusky
Member
Beenai, what you wrote is a very superficial statement.
You can not solely blame one person/government for the mess we are in today. But most of the blame goes to those who dragged the country into this mess at the first place.
This wiki link provide a good brief detail on how we get into this mess since independence.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_%E2%80%93_United_States_relations
Here is a briefing research paper from US perspective on recent development in US/Pak relationship.
bsobaid
Member
Musharraf is a low IQ person and did not deserve such an important post.
I remember he used to talk about "unanimity of command"a lot as he was CAOS, President, PM etc. and the foolish man though it was a good thing. Infact it was a matter of shame and disaster and I can only imagine how other statesmen and diplomats would laugh on his statements boosting single point of failure.
Secondly, I would request everyone to get rid of this "root cause" analysis behavior. These "root cause" analysts" show up on TV as well and I know when they are on they will waste time and will have nothing useful to say.
Dusky
Member
Remind us when was the last time we had a real root cause analysis on a TV show? Most (read ALL) of these anchors can not find their bare @ss with two hands let alone doing any root cause analysis. Best you can describe what they do is "tabsara on halat-ehazra".
Though Obaid mian, you are not much off in your assessment about Musharraf, people used to say same about Bush that he was a low IQ guy, apparently guy ruled the world for 8 years.... and apparently better then the intellectual/nobelaureate Obama.
Did we see some similarities here?
Root cause of all our problems in Pakistan is our insincerity with our country. I think no leader served Pakistan sincerely and selflessly.
bsobaid
Member
Some examples of "root cause analyst"
Pakistan mein dehshatgardee kaa root cause, amreeki jang hai. drone bandd karaoo dehshatgardee bhi bandd hojaey gee. sirt terrorist ko saza daynay se kuch nahi hogaa, iss liyay dehshatgardoo ko kuch naa kaho.
Pakistan kee economy iss liyay kharab hai koinkay hukmuran chor hein. Naey hukmuran lay aoo (aasman se) economy khud baa khudd sahe hojaey gee. iss liyay tax daynay se aur hukoomat ko oss kee finance policy pay quiz karnay se kuch haasil nahi hogaa.
Pakistan iss liyay ghulam hai kionkay liaquat ali ne 1954 mein amreeka kaa dora kiaa thaa.
In other words, for every problem find a cause that is unsolvable and give yourself an excuse for inaction.
ustaani: tum ne school kaa home work nahi kia?
Shaagird: miss meray pet mein dardd thaa.
I once had an encounter with a haram khoor and kaahil sarkari employee. He said, there is a ban on workers union and we dont get enough facilities and salaries, how can we work in this situation. The guy would show up in office for 3 hours and spend his time gossiping and smoking.
New zealand cricket captian Martin Crow was asked in 1992 world cup how they manage to reach semis without any super star and his answer was, we do simple things good!
bsobaid
Member
Obama Vs. Bush.
Bush may have low and mid IQ but he had experiance. Obama is a rock star with 0 experiance. Books cant replace experience.
Bush was called dumb because he would borrow his thoughts from conservative fundamentals rather than his own independent mind. So yes he was dumb because he wont think from his own mind, but he would extract his inspirations from traditional and time tested compendium of conventional and conservative wisdom which would make his personality as dumb but his decisions more enduring and lasting.
Musharraf was both inexperienced and low IQ and stubborn enough to insist on his "out of box" and "independent" thinking. Not just that, he is also suffering from inferiority complex.
Dusky
Member
What you wrote are "excuses" crafted by so called anchors which they echo day in and out on TV. By any mean that's not the root cause analysis.
When was the last time you have seen a chronic patent get the remedy from "attai doctors"??
Dusky
Member
From Wikipedia:)
Root Cause Analysis is any structured approach to identifying the factors that resulted in the nature, the magnitude, the location, and the timing of the harmful outcomes (consequences) of one or more past events in order to identify what behaviors, actions, inactions, or conditions need to be changed to prevent recurrence of similar harmful outcomes and to identify the lessons to be learned to promote the achievement of better consequences.
Dusky
Member
Obaid mian, you are contradicting yourself in Bush assessment.
A person can't be classified as dumb if he is smart enough to borrow time tested successful approach from conservatives or anywhere else. On same token, he would not have scored top posts one after one if he was not able to think on his "own". One need to be smart enough to draw the inspiration for achievements in life, otherwise their are many tom d!ck and harries walking around.
bsobaid
Member
@Dusk,
Bush reached out to conservative wisdom not because he chose to do so. He did that because of his upbringing and emotional born-again back-to-his-roots life changing experiences and conservative thinking was just a by-product of his personal experiences.
It is the same concept of muslim by choice and muslim by birth...
muslim by choice is a very smart man/woman, muslim by birth...not so much.
Why he won elections twice? his father's legacy and his personal inclinations which resonated with traditional Amreekan awami mindset.. and when I say mindset, I dont mean New York or hollywood mindset, I mean the real one...the bible belt one..
bsobaid
Member
Also, dumb is a relative word.
A president called dumb might still be a very smart person for a common person.
kulla
Member
I dont blame musharraf. We are to be blamed ourselves. Every politician has come and gone and contributed far less than what he looted.
Every regime or govt has made matters worst because of its inability and incompetency to deal with economy and politics. They always blame their predecessors because thats the most easiest thing to do...
Musharraf did what was neccessary during his time, due to scenarios facing Pakistan that time. Whether right or wrong whatever. But what we have today cannot be attributed to him because the govt had more than 3 yrs to make a difference.
the poiint of the case is that its easy to blame others for our faults. These politicians have made matters worst.
truths
Member
musharraf kaahil jornal of pak army
gaddar of islam
10 % pakistani says keep away from this war because in future this war will fight in our land..
musharraf says america warn us that if we not support them pakistan go back to stone age and mir jaffer (musharraf surrendered)
in this crime most particiapted party was mqm and q leaque who fully support musharraf
lal mosque
bugti
and much more
those peoples leaders who say in 2001 we must support us and we must be support war against terror now says openly in tv shows and public stop america we fight against usa shame on those
from the day first some people says first learn history of afghan history of muslims
afghan region in history always unbeatable muslims unbeatable
pakistani 90% basters want dollars and us visa pakistani shoe polisher of us need to support us in 2001 now pakistan in the edge of terror
terrorist talban not become from usa they become from our wish and policies
shame on nation of pakistan who support usa they sell out mothers and sisters even islam to usa for just dollars
shame on show polisher nation including me
Dusky
Member
@Obaid:
"Bush reached out to conservative wisdom not because he chose to do so. He did that because of his upbringing and emotional born-again back-to-his-roots life changing experiences and conservative thinking was just a by-product of his personal experiences."
In my opinion, he chose to do so. He used them to his advantage.
Before becoming president twice, he was governor of Texas, before that he owned texes rangers (professional base ball team), before that he was oil companies executive and formed few companies of his own (entrepreneur), before that he unsuccessfully run for the congress... difficult to call him dump with this kind of resume.
bsobaid
Member
As I said a dumb president can be a a very smart person for a common man. Now lets look at why people call him dumb, because of the gaffes he made and because of statements like "god wanted me to do this and that..."
so for a newyorker and left leaning liberal and popular media it is dumb, but not for an average joe living in Oklahoma for example.
Dusky
Member
Left leaning liberal and popular media "PAINTED" him as dumb as he was drawing his power from conservative quarters, same media presented Obama as the most intellectual presidential candidate ever(now we know exactly how intellectual he is).
Not necessary every thing coming from the horses mouth holds water:)
shamwariz
Member
@beenai,
Army as an istitution is resposible for all the mess.
today, time has proved that Mush decision was wrong.
Mush was wrong to support USA...
Mush is gone but now Kiyani has taken over and continuing the same policies.
we took the fire into our own home ...
It was army from Zia to Mush to Kiyani taking fire to our own home by picking and choosing the good terrorists and bad ones.
we got our 35 thousand ppl died.
still goes on. do you think Drons are still operating without Army approval
we got the Taliban guns on our side.
Guns are guns these guns are to be on our side when we get to involve in afghnistan to make it a fifth province.
Please note we gave Budda bair (peshawer) base to USA in Ayub era, Make launching pad of CIA and USA in ZIa era same happend in MUSH era gave bases to USA . and in Kiyani era same goes on
persons changed policies same.
Down with Army dominance
bsobaid
Member
@Dusk,
If you remember the presidential campaigns of previous US elections, Hillary at one point mocked Obama by saying something like the skies will open and there will be bipartisan support and no opposition to Obama and he will implement his plans as is.
She was infact referring to the same point i-e lack of Obama's experience and his popular media backing.
expakistani
Member
@truths
big TRUTH is that Pakistan has no fire power and back bone to go for another war not even again Nepal let alone USA.
On the other hand USA with his falling economy can do lot damage to Pakistan.... lok how Afganistan is today, thats how Pakistan gona turn up.
What Musharaf did after 2011 was right and again avoiding war would be better for Pakistan....even if its cost few haqanies
quaidkamazaar
Member
could any of us foresee all of this happening in 2001? how many of us were actually against Musharraf's policy back then?
i dont think a lot of people voiced against his decision back then... now its too late.
saladin89
Member
Musharraf was responsible initially, however our government which consists of Zardari and nawaz sharif, and also Kiyani are responsible today. All they have done is carried on with where Musharraf left. In fact it has gone worse since the musharraf days.
The other point to be made is if Nawaz Sharif or Zardari were in power then, what difference would they have done. None wot so ever.
The only way we can stand up to US is if we all become speak with one voice. And our country is not one, in fact far from that. Most of us are aware that US wants do de-stabalize Pakistan, but we have no balls to say enough is enough.
PPP and friendly opposition PML N have billions of dollors of there money abroad. And we saw there bravery when they all were involved in releasing RD. And on issues of drone attacks, we know what wiki leaks say's about them both. U bomb and we will condemn the attacks, but really we are with u. Army General Kiyani is right up the back of US as well, we are in a dire situation. We have been used so much that we cannot say NO, they will carry on using the so called war on terror card, and it seems we cannot do anything about it.
saladin89
Member
@expakistani
There ultimate aim is our nuclear bombs, or if not nuclear than to de stabalize our country at least. It is not about a few haqqinis, we have sacrificed thousands of lives, and they still are not happy.
@shamwariz,
yes,i agree that army as an institution,which took the decision and now we are facing the consequences of it.
@Quaidkamazar,
i disagree with you that at that point people had not took stand against Mush's decision.
there were people,who voiced against this decision.
but at that point,nobody has been given that much of importance to be listen.
spruce
Member
No one is responsible except arrogant establishment of Pakistan, they always tried their best to make happy to Yankees so that now milk came in to their throats which they can not digest more.
What they are showing their sprit they could have shown long before when ZAB was hanged by establishment to make Yankees happier.ZAB shown the teeth to Yankees alone.
Mushraf was not alone only responsible, there were MQM, PML-Q, MMA, Imran khan who backed Mushraf to have more power.do’NT forget core commanders rule without their rule mushraf was not able to take any decision.
We always cry over spoil milk which is too late now.
the whole objective to discuss this at this point.
is to analyze, where were we wrong?
as its the time to make another crucial decision.
so its better to look back and review the old ones.
so not to repeat the same mistake again .
shafiq12
member
so its better to look back and review the old ones.
so not to repeat the same mistake again .
Beenai, I knew mushraff was wrong in taking side of American, there were many more like me who knew that mushraff was mistaken but problem is who cares -- would mushraff listen to us, if we had tried to change his mind ---
This is democracy, You can't change their mistakes even if they are repeating it again ---
All the members here, are common people, they can't do nothing against decision at government level, because Dictatorship naturally arises out of democracy, and the most aggravated form of tyranny and slavery out of the most extreme liberty.
spruce
Member
The solution is that we should roll back our policy of mushraf and sent clean message to Yankees that Pakistan will not fight a war any more for you. We have no Taliban but promoted and sent by you into our region to make reason for Pakistan to participate war with USA. TTP or haqani network are assets of India and America some of them were used against soviet and others are being used against Pakistan.
It should be noted that Yankees are slow poison for Pakistan slowly and gradually destroying our economy and searching the groups in Pakistan to wage war with establishment in the shape of ANP, MQM, BLA, and Taliban.
India has established nine training camps along the Afghan border, where they were training members of the Balouchstan Liberation Army (BLA).
New WikiLe¬aks cable releas¬e reveal¬s DG ISI said India has set-up 9 traini¬ng camps along the Afghan border.
This is what India and America, israil are involved to harm Pakistan and we are thinking we are doing well job for Yankees and in reverse they will appreciate our actions.
karim
Member
Musharraf is completely responsible for this mess we are in today.
Due to his inability and the lack of vision and foresight the people of Paksitan paid the price with their blood and still are paying it.
He knew that if he did not obey the orders of his masters he will be taken out first so he put his personal interest ahead of the national interest.
Nobody asked him to fight the american forces back in 2001 but we didn't expect him to sold us so cheaply to his masters. He could have remain neutral like Iran but instead he offered everything in the plate to his masters.
The biggest blunder from him came in 2004 when upon receiving orders from his master he sent our troops in the tribal areas to fight with the local tribes who have never challenged our army before. But again lack of foresight of this fake commando proved detrimental for us.
Then from 2004 until 2008 there is a long list of concessions after concessions, shame after shame and defeats after defeats that this person brought upon us. He led our nation into a foreign war that never was ours. He gave us the gift of suicide bombings. We never had heard about it before Musharraf.
Finally as a last ditch effort to hold onto the power he attacked our national instituions like judiciary and the media. This drunkard attacked our mosques and polarized the whole society just for his own survival.
samrash
Member
@ quaidkamazaar: Alot of people raised their concerns but leaders like Altaf Hussain were too busy enjoying their share of power that they kept the public misguided at large. Next time vote for someone who wont support wrongdoings just to stay in power.
spruce
Member
قرآن اور پاکستان!!!!
پاکستان کے حالات کا ذکر کیا قرآن مجید می...ں موجود ھے؟ آپ کہیں گے کہ یہ کیسا سوال ھے، لیکن میرے عزیزو! یہ بات بڑی غور طلب ھے۔ جیسے حالات آج ھم پر یا ھماری قوم پے آۓ ھوۓ ھیں کیا ایسا انسانی تاریخ میں پہلے کبھی ھو چکا ھے یا نہیں!!
آۓ آپکو قرآن کی سیر کرواؤں۔ فأرسلنا عليهم الطوفان والجراد والقمل والضفادع والدم۔ (القرآن) ترجمہ: پس ھم نے ان پے طوفان کا عذاب بھیجا، اور ٹڈیوں،مینڈکوں،سسری، جووں اور خون کا عذاب بھیجا،
اس آیت مبارکہ میں قوم فرعون کا ذکر ھے، آپکو معلوم ھے کہ بنی اسرایٔیل اور قوم فرعون ایک ساتھ ھی رھتے تھے، اور انکے نبی حضرت موسٰی علیہ السلام تھے۔ جب موسٰٰی علیہ السلام نے فرعونیوں کو کہا کہ اللہ کو مان لو اور گناہ چھوڑ دو تو انھوں نے انکار کر دیا۔ تو پھر ان پر وقفے وقفے سے مختلف قسم کے عذاب آۓ، جیسا کہ اوپر بیان کی گیٔ آیت مبارکہ سے معلوم ھو جاتا ھے۔
قوم فرعون کے پاس بڑی زرخیز زمینیں تھیں، لہلاتی فصلوں پے وہ مان کیا کرتے تھے کہ ھم اسی کے قابل ھیں۔ سب سے پہلے اللہ پاک نے ان پے سیلاب اور طوفانی بارشوں کا عذاب بھیجا، کھڑی فصلیں برباد ھونے لگیں، تو وہ موسٰی علیہ السلام کے پاس آۓ اور کہا کہ اللہ سے دعا کریں یہ عذاب ٹال دے، تو ھم آپ پے ایمان لے آیٔیں گے اور آپکی باتوں اور احکامات الٰہیہ پر عمل کریں گے، موسٰی علیہ السلام نے دعا فرمایٔ تو سیلاب اور بارش کا عذاب ٹل گیا، قوم فرعون پھر سے معصیت اور نافرمانی میں پڑ گیٔ، تو اللہ تعالٰی نے ٹڈیوں کا عذاب بھیجا، وہ انکی فصلیں کھا کے برباد کرنے لگیں، پھر وہ موسٰی علیہ السلام کے پاس آۓ اور کہا کہ اللہ سے دعا کریں یہ عذاب ٹال دے، تو ھم آپ پے ایمان لے آیٔیں گے اور آپکی باتوں اور احکامات الٰہیہ پر عمل کریں گے، موسٰی علیہ السلام نے دعا فرمایٔ تو ٹڈیوں کا عذاب ٹل گیا، قوم فرعون پھر سے معصیت اور نافرمانی میں پڑ گیٔ، اور انھوں نے بچی ھویٔ فصلیں گھروں میں ڈال لیں، جیسے ھم سال بھر کے دانے گھروں میں ڈال لیتے ھیں،پھر اللہ رب العزت نے قمل کا عذاب بھیجا، قمل تین طرح کے کیڑوں کو کہا جاتا ھے نمبر 1 سسری کا کیڑا، نمبر 2 گھن کا کیڑا، نمبر 3 جویٔیں۔
جو فصلیں گھر پڑی تھیں انکو سسری لگ گیٔ، اور دیواروں پے گھن نے حملہ کر دیا اور سر کے بالوں میں جویٔیں پڑ گیٔیں۔وہ پھر موسٰی علیہ السلام کے پاس آۓ اور کہا کہ اللہ سے دعا کریں یہ عذاب ٹال دے، تو ھم آپ پے ایمان لے آیٔیں گے اور آپکی باتوں اور احکامات الٰہیہ پر عمل کریں گے، موسٰی علیہ السلام نے دعا فرمایٔ تو قمل کا عذاب ٹل گیا، قوم فرعون پھر سے معصیت اور نافرمانی میں پڑ گیٔ۔ پھر اللہ پاک نے مینڈکوں کا عذاب بھیجا، ھر طرف مینڈک ھی مینڈک، بستروں میں کھانے میں ھر جگہ مینڈک ھے مینڈک۔ وہ پھر موسٰی علیہ السلام کے پاس آۓ اور کہا کہ اللہ سے دعا کریں یہ عذاب ٹال دے، تو ھم آپ پے ایمان لے آیٔیں گے اور آپکی باتوں اور احکامات الٰہیہ پر عمل کریں گے، موسٰی علیہ السلام نے دعا فرمایٔ تو مینڈکوں کا عذاب ٹل گیا، قوم فرعون پھر سے معصیت اور نافرمانی میں پڑ گیٔ۔ پھر اللہ تعالٰی نے ان پے خون کا عذاب بھیجا، دریاۓ نیل کا تمام پانی ان کے لیٔے خون بن گیا، پیالے میں پانی لیتے جب منہ کے قریب کرتے تو خون بن جاتا۔ وہ پھر موسٰی علیہ السلام کے پاس آۓ اور کہا کہ اللہ سے دعا کریں یہ عذاب ٹال دے، تو ھم آپ پے ایمان لے آیٔیں گے اور آپکی باتوں اور احکامات الٰہیہ پر عمل کریں گے، موسٰی علیہ السلام نے دعا فرمایٔ تو خون کا عذاب ٹل گیا، قوم فرعون پھر سے معصیت اور نافرمانی میں پڑ گیٔ۔ اور آخر اللہ پاک کی ان سزاوؤں سے وہ کچھ نہ سمجھے اور باز نہ آۓ تو اللہ تعالٰٰی نے فرعون سمیت انکو پانی میں غرق کر دیا۔
آیٰٔیں پاکستان کے حالات کا جایٔزہ لیں، ھم پے سیلاب، طوفانی بارش،مچھر اور زلزلے جیسے عذاب آچکے ھیں، آیٔیں اپنا محاسبہ کریں۔ اللہ کے عذاب سے بچنے کا ایک ھی حل ھے اور وہ ھے سچی اور پکی توبہ ۔ آیٔیں صدق دل سے اپنے خالق و مالک سے توبہ کریں۔ اللہ عزوجل ھم پے اپنی رحمت کی برسات فرما دیں اور ھمارے گناہ معاف فرما دیں۔ آمین ثم آمین
@Irshad,
very true...Holy Quran tells about the nations who got their Azaab when they were reached to the optimal point of disobedience.
and as a nation,we have reached to the maximum level of disobedience to Allah.
no2. rolling back Mush policy is not that easy.
as it was easy for Mush to say Yes on a phone call.
it will take a lot of courage,lot of sacrifices and definitely needs a bold and authoritative leader to hold the responsibility of it.
Adonis
Member
While the list of Parvez Musharraf's crimes is very long, one that has done most damage to Pakistan has gone virtually unnoticed. It was his decision to freeze development of Pakistan's long range missile program under US pressure. This has seriously threatened Pakistan's defense capabilities and coupled with the ineptitude of our military has made Pakistan vulnerable to lot of damage.
BTW, one genius questioned why nobody spoke against Mush when he decided to support USA post 9/11. I don't know which rock he was hiding under but there were vehement street protests all over Pakistan and major opposition parties like PML-N and MMA strongly criticized this move. Of course, PPP, MQM, PML-Q and Imran Khan supported musharraf at the time but independent media and general public at large made their opposition very clear. Musharraf felt so much under pressure that he had to come on TV himself and promise the nation that this decision will help Pakistan get US support on Kashmir issue. Of course, no sane person believed him.
siddiqi73
Member
@Adonis,
Bro, out military and its leadership has always been inept and impotent. Who would have believed the foresight of Ayub Khan when he was told by the Chinese back in 62' that since India is massively stretched militarily during the Sino-Indian war, it would be prudent for Pakistan to launch military operations in Kashmir and get the desired results. Of course Ayub Khan was not at all receptive to the idea because he was a legendary American toadie who at the time was aiding the Indians against the Chinese.
This is just one the examples from a very very long list of goof-ups attributed to our military. Besides, one's military prowess will erode when your khakhi brigade enters the corporate world by erecting Cement, Sugar, Corn Flakes and fertilizer factories. I have absolutely no sympathy for our military which has conducted genocide against its own people in 71', usurped the constitution a number of times and most importantly it has degraded the sanctity and soverignty of Pakistan since its inception. The sooner this army is de-clawed and turned into a territorial defence force, the better. With the money saved by throwing tanks, fighter jets, artillery, APC's, submarines, frigates into smelters, we can uplift Pakistan socially and economically without outside help.
karim
Member
Yesterday Dawn TV broke the news that millions of aid money collected in the name of flood victims last year by Musharraf through a telethon in London was found stashed in his personal bank accounts even after a year. This was found by FIA when they tried to freeze his accounts on the court orders in BB murder case when Musharraf failed to appear in front of the court.
<sarcasm>I thought this was a messiah who could do no wrong sepcially on the corruption front</sarcasm>
Mush was corrupt too.
who says he was not?
he does it cleverly not openly as Zardari.
Hussain Farooqui
Member
Well Beenai
In Bahrain, you don't need ask the direction of a seaside, if you wish to go there. You simply have to move in any direction for few kilometres and find a seaside.
Similarly, in our politics and administration, if you wish to identify a corrupt person, you need not point your finger in any particular direction. Raise your finger in any direction and find one.
Well, it is really a difficult job to indicate an honest man in our politics and administration. We all would be interested to know about the rarely found honest persons in our politics and administration.
spruce
Member
no one trust in our politician,establishment,NGO’s all lost their trust from international community, I am witness of that last year flood was awful and international community shared their part a lot to help needy people, I have one friend working in UK in an high regard position met me and asked me that he wan to help the flood victims in Pakistan but he has no trust over govt,Ngo’s then I suggested him to send his own workforce to share his part honestly which will calm ur heart that at least he helped the legitimate affected people. When he went UK and telephoned me that he has collected 70 lecs and he is sending medical team and food, garment to help the poor people personally.
Again I appeal to every one may Allah not bring such disaster any more to Pakistan and mercy upon us, that involve yourself and follow the victims personally and raise their issues on media and ask international community to involve in such efforts personally because corrupt jagerdars and their clerks peer, fakeer with big abdoment eat every thing and put all the money in to their lockers.
Hussain Farooqui
Member
Irshad
During both of the big disasters of earthquake and flood, even those who came by themselves were not provided security. No. of incidents occurred with them of robberies and looting. The government should at least provide protection to the ones who are coming to the affected areas for helping their needy brethren.
shamwariz
Member
If we just single out Mush for this mess . We delibrately giving dirty establishment another chance to come out clean by just putting all blames on one person and get ready for another adventure.
Establishment is mother of all evils in pakistan and kids are Musharraf zia yahya Ayyub.
If keep blaming one parson who is gone then be ready for other adventures and that is wat establishment wants
siddiqi73
Member
@shamwariz,
The mother of all evils are the Men in Khakhi.....you shred them to size and this napak establishment will loose their biggest satanic benefactor.
Dusky
Member
I would say, the mother of all evils is the mentality in Khakhi.
Unless someone crush their mentality that they are not any superior then the rest of Pakistanis, nothing is going to change. It's a long list from Iskandar Mirza to Musharaf, including Ayub, Yahah and Zia, they all played pivotal role in the downfall of the country and nation.
siddiqi73
Member
Give the men in khakhi a good ol' Sialkoti treatment and such a mentality would wash away, for good.
Dusky
Member
Yep, you need either a Khomeni or Erdogon to give such treatment, unless "Sajeelay Jawan" keep $crewing the nation.
he he he
kiya kehany mush kay
wohh tou farishta thay bulkay hain abhi ameeika ne marwaya nahi izzat maa'ab ko....
waisay mush ko sirf mush kay biwi bachay aur MQM waly pasand kartay hain.
baqi sub unko achi tarha jaan gaye hain.
junaid
Member
musharaf ****** ki hi policies aaj tak chal rahee hain. zardarana/friendly/no opposition is continuing his pathetic era.
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