yahya
Member
Devout Muslims donated hundreds of thousands of dollars to one of Canada’s largest Islamic organizations on the promise that the cash would be used to help the poor.
But only one in four dollars donated to a special pool of money at the Islamic Society of North America Canada (ISNA Canada) actually reached the needy.
http://www.thestar.com/news/article/924865--muslim-charity-squandered-money-for-poor
Rizwan Qaimkhani
Member
What can i say ex JI old boys! Some habits go to the grave.
Star is a right wing lap dog of a newspaper. They always issue these stupid news story to defame muslims. ISNA is not a charity, they have lots of operational costs because they are involved in lots of other areas like lobbying, holding conventions etc. We can't imagine money for such events just drops from heaven.
expakistani
Member
money collected on name of charity normally kept separate then genreal donation for ISNA...
even holding conventions and lobbying is legal in USA and i am sure its leagal in Canada ... but unfortunately ISNA failed to keep track of money.
This is not new Islam ke naam per sab se zayda loot mar kertey hain humharey log Jamati hon ya mazzar waley....
Pakistani hon ya Palestinian
Rizwan Qaimkhani
Member
Star is left wing newspaper in comparision to globe and mail that is right wing con towncrier. Besides ICNA was started by JI people as they found loophole in Canadian Taxation System. It is not the first time, it happened in Islamic Foundation in Scarborough. These people should be punished to the extent of law.
@ex and Rizwan
G&M is a liberal newspaper, National (com)Poste is a right wing contard trash. Besides ISNA asks for donations which are used to run it's operation unlike your typical charity organization which claims to spend money on poor and needy of the developing countries.
ISNA's online donation portal is safe and secure for your donations. Contribute to ISNA online using your major credit card. Your donations directly provide services vital to the American Muslim community, reach out to your elected leaders and the media, allows for scholars to host educational workshops, and makes it possible for ISNA to develop conferences and the Annual Convention. All donations are tax deductible.
Dusky
Member
@dell: Star is a right wing lap dog of a newspaper.
I guess you are confusing star with National and Sun, Star is a center leaning left news paper with some sane Muslim presence in their editorial board alike Haroon Siddiqui. In recent local election star endorsed George Smitherman ex liberal health minister for mayor over Rob Foard (conservative poster child in GTA these days).
Rizwan Qaimkhani
Member
@Dusky
You are right! There are other muslim reporting staff, one of them had done the coverage on Hajj as many Canadians know very little about the faith.
expakistani
Member
No doubt purpose of ICNA and ISNA is good but when corrupt people join such organizations they misuse the system.... I hope Canadian government would do proper investigation and put crimnal minded people behind bars..regardless of their JI type thinking or Berelvi back ground
storonto
Member
who cares whether The TO Star is left or right wing...the issue is that ISNA, a well-respected Islamic organization in the West, has proven to be heavily mismanaged and untrustworthy of the populace it exists to serve. I had a lot of respect for ISNA as the one organization that seemed to be credible but sadly this is not the case.
"But only one in four dollars donated to a special pool of money at the Islamic Society of North America Canada (ISNA Canada) actually reached the needy."
Oh this is just a hatched job that two-bit W like yahya are too happy to spread....
Like @dell said above, ISNA is not a charity (most Muslim charities have already been shut down under the guise of "supporting terror by supporting muslims" that *****s like @yahya would never take an issue with; in fact just accept it as fact that "all muslim charities support terror").
I certainly take it as a positive -- a confirmation that at least one in four dollars DOES reach the poor. That is pretty good even if ISNA was a charity. In U.S., a charity is considered legally OK as long as it distributes just 1% of funds collected. 25% getting to the poor would be consider among the top of the list.
yahya
Member
"two-bit W like yahya"
Isn't there a rule not to attack posters? Mods?
Although does show something touched the nerves...truth hurts and all that.
yahya
Member
ISNA Canada, the Muslim Brotherhood front organization revealed as a massive charity fraud in yesterdays Star has continued to keep Farhat Hashmi, a muslim extremist ordered deported from Canada in 2006, on the payroll as a "ghost hire" in an effort to circumvent Canadian immigration laws. Macleans reported on Hashmi's involvement with ISNA in 2006.
The audit indicates that Hashmi is a fraudulent hire who remains "employed" by ISNA soley in an effort to skirt Canadian immigration laws.
http://blazingcatfur.blogspot.com/2011/01/where-was-canada-revenue-islamist.html
yahya
Member
More on Farhat Hashmi;
Farhat, from Sargodha, where her parents were both members of Islami Jamiat Tulaba, is steeped in the “dars” of the Jamaat-e-Islami and Maulana Maududi’s thought (p 40).
http://tribune.com.pk/story/41523/daughters-of-al-huda/
Jamatis again! What a surprise.
@yahya
"Although does show something touched the nerves...truth hurts and all that..."
Oh don't give yourself the credit...kuttoN ko kam hi mouN lagata houN per kabhi kabhi laat marni parti hay ;-)
"ISNA Canada, the Muslim Brotherhood front organization revealed as a massive charity fraud in yesterdays Star has continued to keep Farhat Hashmi, a muslim extremist ordered deported from Canada in 2006, on the payroll as a "ghost hire" in an effort to circumvent Canadian immigration laws. Macleans reported on Hashmi's involvement with ISNA in 2006."
Ah, so that's your issue: Just swallow the "extremist" label where ever it appears and how suspect (the best you could do was to stand on the shoulders of blazingcatfur?)
So is ISNA "Muslim Brotherhood" front or "Al Huda" front? There is nothing common between the two (again the theory must be both are "extremists" so what's the difference).
And why would Farhat Hashmi want to continue being hired by ISNA if it is not for immigration? If she was deported from Canada back in 2006, how could she have been there till now i.e. 2011? Is she working that "shadow" job because she needs money? If you knew anything about the empire that Al Huda has become (as hinted by Khalid Ahmed piece you posted) you'd know how silly that sounds. And as you yourself mentioned, it can't be for immigration purposes as she has been ordered deported already.
Farhat, from Sargodha, where her parents were both members of Islami Jamiat Tulaba, is steeped in the “dars” of the Jamaat-e-Islami and Maulana Maududi’s thought"
Ah, so it is your fear of IJT and JI that is talking through. But using "her parents" to try and malign her is beyond pathetic.
"“Farhat Hashmi’s denouncement of various cultural practices and disapproval of westerners and Indians helps women redefine their own identity as Muslims” (p 146)."
Oh how dare she, right?
"The Canadians are probably worried because Farhat thinks Osama bin Laden is an Islamic warrior."
Ah, so that is the real reason for @yahya's and Canadian fears. But do give a reference because hat is hogwash I think. I just cannot imagine FH/Al-Huda saying something like this for they are a cult that is spread all over and it cannot afford to say stuff like that.
"In December 2009, army officers and their children were massacred by terrorists while praying at the Parade Lane mosque in Rawalpindi. The ISI finally caught up with the man who had organised the attack – “a student of the International Islamic University”, whose father was a grade 19 officer in Islamabad with religious party connections, “while the mother held Quranic dars for women in Islamabad” "
Another pathetic attempt to blame FH for this AND International Islamic University ("All IIS students are terrorists"), the father ("kids whose parents have religious party connections turn out to be terrorists"), the mother and Quran ("Women who hold Quranic dars, their kids are terrorists").
More pathetic arguments couldn't be made.
P.S. That I find your pathetic attempt repulsive is funny because I hate FH/and Al-Huda (and jamatis as HK can attest) myself and consider it a cult and would love it if it is gotten rid of but for the right reasons. But painting them as "Extremist militants" just plain stupid. ;-)
Dusky
Member
@yahya: Dude, all you doing is echoing Tarek Fatah (Author of "Jew is not my Enemy").
Define who you call an "Extremist"??
Not necessary every thing coming from horses mouth is true, point in case "blazingcatfur" a right wing blog known for anti Muslim chants.
Beside, Farhat hashmi is on ISNA payroll as a religious preacher and that's what she is doing, so how come she become a ghost employee? She is in Tareek Fateh and alike bad book book because she is very popular and has a large following among local muslim women as she is educated and speak their language.
Has Jamat Islami or its members ever done good deeds anywhere in the world? Jamat Islami is the chief culprit of spreading sectarianism and extremism in this Pakistan and they do the same in other countries. One hand they criticize Veena Malik for her Indian visit and on the other hand Jamal’s members continue their acts of corruption and misappropriation even in foreign countries.
Shame on Jamat Islami
@nota
Thanks for well researched information.
@yahya
Although does show something touched the nerves...truth hurts and all that.
Well, its your thread and members response is what you should have expected. Isn't it?
kulla
Member
@ everyone, this is one habit we have of jumping on the band wagon at pointing fingers. ISNA has done immense service to the society in the GTA and without proper investigation and detailed report by auditors, and a response back from ISNA's president, please avoid slandering.
Everyone knows that Toronto Star or many muslims just cannot stand another muslim organization flourish. Wait until a complete inquiry is done and allow the president to put forth his defence.
If he is found guilty afterwards then, let the court decide, but do not create FITNA by slandering as you should know what grave sin it is to slander, and creating FITNA, specially, when its not even your country where ISNA operates out of.
kulla
Member
Also, ISNA is the only organization that has a real interest free Halal way of home financing. They have a wonderful Islamic School, programs for the muslim community in Mississauga, Halal Certification, a large mosque etc etc..
They are one of the most visible islamic symbol in the GTA. ISNA is a reputable organization and no one in the GTA will tolerate a few ppl in Pakistan slander and spread mis information.
yahya
Member
Well, its your thread and members response is what you should have expected. Isn't it?
@S.E.Mirza: I would have expected some moderation from you but obviously you are off duty today.
@kulla
"Also, ISNA is the only organization that has a real interest free Halal way of home financing. They have a wonderful Islamic School, programs for the muslim community in Mississauga, Halal Certification, a large mosque etc etc..
They are one of the most visible islamic symbol in the GTA. ISNA is a reputable organization and no one in the GTA will tolerate a few ppl in Pakistan slander and spread mis information. "
So you see why self-hating tr@sh must attack it? And I doubt yahya is "in Pakistan" for people in Pakistan hardly have hardly heard about ISNA....
Rizwan Qaimkhani
Member
Can someone explain to me the difference between Halal home financing and standard Canadian financing. To my understanding, it is the same crap different names. As to running Islamic schools, it is considered a profitable business as they asked for top dollars under the banner of being Islamic, in a nut shell, it is a matter of prestige and class to send your kids to Islamic school since not everyone can afford it. The are their to get those thousands of dollars in tution fees that Canadian government has allocated for each child. As to Zabihah certification, that is a flourishing business as nowadays more businesses are opting for such to acquire muslims as consumers. I still have to find but there are reports that they never monitors the procedures, takbeer is being called at the tape recorder and chickens are electricuted or boiled before being slaughtered. I don't see any service to Islam or muslim community, I view them as a business whether it is donation collection or filling bank accounts with halal certification income, they are no different than any other religious entities. Probably they should start appointing CEOs.
Rizwan Qaimkhani
Member
There were a similar case against Islamic Foundation Scarborough Canada against imam of that time Ahmed Kutty but people close to the issue kept it hush hush, they did not let media or general public informed. Plus Ahmed Kutty had his claws everywhere including he was serving at Human Rights Commission in Ontario and his son was a lawyer who was also involved with CAIR-CAN. We have to draw a line somewhere, enough with these opportunists!
kulla
Member
@rizwan, i think you need to understand what Ribba is and why its haram in islam. I dont have to tell you the difference.
Go check with ISNA and find out hwo their housing scheme works because its different from Financing.
Also when people dont have an honest intention they always come up with reasons why not to spend more. Sending children to islamic school is an option. If you want to send them to regular schools please do so. No one is forcing you.
It is very easy to excuse ourselves and come up with reasons why not to do things the halal way...no one is stopping you to go and eat non zabihah or kentucky fried chicken.
This is a common syndrome when people actually do not have the correct knowledge of the deen and the contemproray issues.. and like to generalize and sladner others just because they chose to do their best in practicing the principle of Islam...
bsobaid
Member
We should quit desi style dealings in western countries. No more work arounds in the name of saving overhead expenses. Overseas Pakistanis work hard and give their hard earned money to these people who would stoop down to lowest level. Shame on them and shame on us.
kulla
Member
I'm sure i did not answer your questions just my comments... thats because the responsibility of finding what the correct way is upon you.
kulla
Member
@bsobaid muslims in the west trust ISNA. Let the court decide after the detailed inquiry. There is no reason to be judgemental just because it came in Toronto Star... we all know that media here is biased. If the president did something wrong then it is that 1 person not the entire organization. The board actually has said they will run a detailed inquiry into this. So until anything is proven we should hold on and not create more Fitna by spreading rumors
@kulla
So until anything is proven we should hold on and not create more Fitna by spreading rumors
Agreed.
Dusky
Member
Rizwan Qaimkhani: "As to running Islamic schools, it is considered a profitable business as they asked for top dollars under the banner of being Islamic, in a nut shell, it is a matter of prestige and class to send your kids to Islamic school since not everyone can afford it. The are their to get those thousands of dollars in tution fees that Canadian government has allocated for each child"
So is catholic schools/Jewish schools and schools with other faith brands. They all get their fair share from Canadian government (in other words tax payer money). So whats wrong in having Islamic school in the mix as an option?
It's a choice, not a compulsion Public school board is always there as alternative.
Rizwan Qaimkhani
Member
@Dusky and kulla
Dusky, you are right, all these religious groups milking Canadian Government in the name of religions. You have no idea unless you are living in Canada, there is so much pressure from within your community. These so-called religious people considers other kids going to public schools involved into something haram. But afterall, they end up at University of Toronto, St. George Campus (why not make your own universities and workplaces to keep it completely segregated) and being involved in everything that native Canadians are doing i.e. keeping girlfriends and boyfriends. I have witnessed myself a girl wearing hijabs hanging around with a guy with her hands wrapping his shoulders. There are also witnesses who mentioned that they have seen these hijab-clad women kissing and having sex at the university premises. Also MSA night-out events at Navy Pier in Chicago are remembered as going to night clubs and whatnot.
So please do not tell me how a muslim should be. I am better at following Islam effectively than these hypocrites, who are harming Islam under the guise of religion. I buy meat from a shop that we personally know and don't eat out unless we know the outfit is serving halal. As to the lingo around the Islamic Financing, I don't see anything different, you still pay a compounding amount under a guise, so much for such banking.
kulla
Member
@rizwan are those your examples/explantions for not having islamic schools, eat halal, try our best to stay away from RIbba?... dude you need to get a life. I have studied at york university and then UofT st. George for my masters... I know what your are talking about and i guess you hungout with the wrong crowd.....
Nothing wrong with Islamic Schools in North America, it is only for the betterment of our kids. Its only is about priority in life. Choices that everyone has aright to make.
You are the not the first person to say that it costs more to go with islamic finance, or eat halal, etc etc... and you are not the only one who has all these reasons...
Rizwan Qaimkhani
Member
@kulla
My argument was about how community perceive and behave. Aren't these folks at MSA, ISNA and ICNA representing Islam? It is not about one or two people or incidents, it is quite prevalent in the community.
Go to outing by Islamic Foundation BBQ, and you will find girl-friend-boyfriend scene, so much for in the name of Islam. There are groups fighting in these Islamic institutions for governance and dominance, they are looking forward to filling their pockets and getting to power. One of my relatives served as President for one of these organization, so you cannot compete with me on telling the truth. I know them inside out. I believe you are one of them hence the reason being agitated. Besides I and my siblings have been to all the institutions across GTA including UofT, York and Ryerson in different time periods and our parents were very much involved unlike to the majority's parents never get involved unless something big happened. Remember the UofT muslim guy caught stealing twice; once computers from IBM Lab at Don Mills and second time from a firm located in Downtown Toronto. Desis are all about fluff no substance, Oh my kid goes to UofT, and not any college but Trinity College, they don't care if he has learned anything, he just need to grab the degree. Isn't it pride not allowed in Islam along with show off? Lets hear your expert opinion.
bsobaid
Member
I dont have first hand knowledge on the issue but I can guarantee presence of numerous supreme and ultra supreme and ultra ultra supreme islamic and pakistani associations, councils and organisation who usually have more office bearers than members and who usually sneak behind government and political officials and have their pictures taken and then proudly publish them in the newspapers that they themselves publish with captions reading "SanFranscisco Mayor aur Chaudhry Ijaz Chattha city kee policies discuss kartay hoey"
yaa phir "Malik Mumtaz aur parliament kay member khushgawar mode mein"
kulla
Member
@rizwan, first of all stop this nonse about being one of them...etc etc..
second you have yet to give a sound reason for not having these institution. All you are telling me is third source references about he said, she said and i heard. Again, just because some terrorists are muslim does not make all muslim terrorists..
third...I dont take desi as muslim benchmarks..because not all desi's are made equal.
fourth If you are not part of ISNA, ICNA, Foundation etc etc.. doesnt give you the right to criticize them and make a sweeping statement. These organizations are doing great work for the community thats why you have thousands of muslims following and going there, and using their services.
There is no reason not to have islamic institions otherwise. I am not sure how much you have studied at these universities but if you did you will also know how much deviated our youth and generation is..this only to counter that you saw some "bad" muslims.. dude i have friends who have gone to islamic and regular schools... there is no right or wrong way but discrediting the islamic school just because you did not go there or do not want to send your kids there doesnt mean anything.
If you dislike the BBQs then you can just not go there or let the administration know that you disagree but stop making sweeping statements to defame these islamic institutions which are doing a great job...
Dusky
Member
@Rizwan Qaimkhani: I am living in North America from past 11 years. So I know very well how system work. And what goes on inside MSA or PSA has nothing to do with this debate or schooling system per say.
Why don't you go and ask Catholics or Jews to create their own universities and work places? I would really like to listen replies you get. Why burden of assimilating into the society is for Muslims only? If you live in a country which embrace all kind of cultures then whats the beef with your very own?
And no, no one is telling you how a Muslim should be. In a secular society no one has right to preach you unwanted. Likewise those who wants to live life their way have a right to exercise same liberty as long as they are not violating someone else liberty.
expakistani
Member
yaar i am living in USA and people from CANADA and UK will also agree...yeah movli majid or madrsoon ke chaker main yeah per bhi $$$ bana letey hain....
they ask for chanda for masji, muslim graveyard, madersa but some of them dont deliver... masjid main bhi politics ho rhi hoti hey.
kulla
Member
oh bhai chacha ,its our resonsibility to correct, and get involved. If muslims donr get a grave yard, where do you think we will get burried? next to John Doe...or Peter Pan.
Yeh argument us waqt hotee.. if you were an active member of an organization, trying to fix it. Easier to criticize then actually act. Politics hur jaga hotee hey... The muslim community is your responsibility as well, not just masjids or INSA or ICNA etc etc
Rizwan Qaimkhani
Member
@EXP
You are right, they are running businesses under the name of religion. I know all the innerworkings as I have lived in both USA and Canada. Majority is corrupt is there for getting monetary benefits and they consider themselves deserving. A few years back, at ICNA's annual gatherings they served chicken from KFC, people believed it Halal and later found out later it was not—so much for in the name of Islam.
kulla
Member
I think this discussion is going astray... we should wrap up this discussion soon.
kulla
Member
chacha, good for those who went to eat KFC..still no reason why we should shut down islamic organizations. Where do you think muslims will go when then are in distress or need to pray, or need to give their children an islamic environment etc....
no counter evidence given so far.
Its a choice that everyone has aright to make. You want depriving them of that right.
bsobaid
Member
If overseas Pakistani and muslim organisations are doing desi style business, it is expats responsibility to get involved and get it fixed. I am sure reasonable people dont even get involved, take these associations for granted and complain all the time.
bsobaid
Member
Religion is too important of a business to be left on moulvi sahiban. Just like war is too important of a business to be left on Generals.
Rizwan Qaimkhani
Member
@Ulla
So you go flipflop, you were dispensing me to go to non-halal eatery establishments now you are not minding 'such prestigious organization' have committed a sin. Talk of hypocracy, you are quite enriched with it 'Chacha'. Don't give me the excuse because it worst than sin itself. Things can be done efficiently and effectively, just because someone looking over the service does not give them the right to steal. Probably these old-foggies should go and earn halal rozee elsewhere instead of making the donations halal for themselves. Were you brought up with same kind of 'rozee'? Just a question as it is irking you a lot more than anyone else.
kulla
Member
@riz, your comments speak of your broughtup and mentality.
Alhumdulillah I have been broughtup on halal rozee and i am away from ribba as much as i can, and plan to di teh same for my kids so they dont live under a roof dealt in ribba, or food that goes into their stomach comming from ribba income
Cant speak of others who consider dealing with RIbba ok.
I think you did not get my sarcasim in KFC clearly because you have a tunneled mind. I eat Halal Organic meat, because thats whats really zabihah not the meat you get at regular halal meat shop. Should i disqualify everyone else, or should you say that i am wrong in eating organic halal?
just stop this nonsense debate you have because you do not have any solid reasons. All i am saying is that yes no one has the right to squander our money, but wait dont deminish an institution because all these islamic inst. are doing a great job.
No one is forcing you to donate to these islamic inst, no one is asking you to send yoru children to islamic school, no one is saying eat halal certified meat, no one is asking you to change your way. All I am saying is stop criticizing others because you dont agree with them.
BTW where did you get your house financed from?
Rizwan Qaimkhani
Member
From Bank obviously as I am Canadian and believe to contribute to economy. Besides you locked horns with me not the other way around. And eating 'organic certified halal', aren't you showing off your ways. Isn't it snobbery? Do not respond to my post as I do not much care what you think of me but I have clear idea who you are and what you stand for.
kulla
Member
you dont get it do you...i was making a point that just because you do things differently doesnt make you the only one right. Dude you need to get a life, and broaden your horizon...you havent responded to 80% of my questions, only personal attacks now as your tactics.
"believe to be contributing" what bullock....im not even going to go there. That contribution is only for your monetary gain. You will build your equity not anyoneelses.
While you pay Ribba at the bank and say its ok, you consider ppl eatng KFC as done a great SIN. what a joke.
Do you know that Ribba is like having sex with your mother and that is the least of its kind? Yet you have the courage to defame other people who are trying to help the muslim society.
You know from the first post you made, i knew the kinds of people posting here because they are the only ppl against islamic schools, anything to do with islamic .... anything that will cost more, you will go against. Lol.
My case ends here. Have a good night. Its time to go home.
kulla
Member
moderator.. this discussion is going astray and personal attacks. please close this discussion.
bsobaid
Member
I am sure the situation is much worse in UK as original UK expats were half literate and highly vulnerable to village moulvi sahab who must have come there and made tens of these supreme and ultra supreme Islamic organisations and caused rift between community to gain importance.
@all
Kindly refrain from personal attacks.
Thanks
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