"and thanks for calling my decent argument lame. That's what I expected"
no worries mate ;)
PKPolitics Discuss » Social and Cultural Issues
Muslims Contributions to Science or Philosophy during last 1000 years.
(246 posts)-
shahzad1924
memberPosted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 3:29 # -
Aqlib
Blockedmate, are you always on drugs? With each post, your standard of arguing is getting lower.
"whats more important in a person's life?
a) knowing the chemical composition of rocks on mars
b) knowing what to do if someone kills one of my family members."First of all this thread is not about whether astronomy is useful or not. First of all no one has to choose one or the other. If your family member is killed does not mean 6 billion people need to stop functioning until you figure out what to do. And no one has claimed that you should be prevented by scientist from finding out what to do when your family member is killed. Bro, this is the lamest argument I have ever had so far in my life.
Read the comments agains. I was talking to Chechen. It was your friend Chechen who said Allah gave us science and science benefited mankind. I didn't say that. All I am asking is why allah didn't serve this knowledge to us in one book for our benefit if the science is really from allah?
"man, he is the creator, he doesn't need suggestions from you. "
So if we question your opinions and you don't have an answer, I am making suggestions to god?
Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 4:06 # -
chechen
MemberAqlib says:But the scientific facts do not change.
This statement is not correct. Science is based on observation and this is prone to error and change. Astronomers were having vague ideas about the surface of the moon. After the samples were taken and observed and experimented Scientists said they were talking utter non sense until the moon was explored. What scientist are talking today will become utter non sense for future scientists. Science is evolving and the facts keep changing too. The Darwins theory and big bang theory are no longer accepted as "facts".
I am not going to be alive for science to come up with facts and theories when they explore the outer fringers of the Universe. My life span on this planet is short and may not last that long to ctaqch up with spectacular discovries that may happen. The prudent way for me is to adhere to the revelation of God Almighty in understanding the riddles of life, death and universe. Therefore I will keep the Quran as my guide and will not try to find the facts from scientists who completely ignore revelation.
Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 4:10 # -
shahzad1924
membercome on, answer the question. what is it with you and your mates. you always run away from the discussion.
"All I am asking is why allah didn't serve this knowledge to us in one book for our benefit if the science is really from allah?"
and thats exactly what im addressing. who are you to ask?
if you accept that there is a creator (if you don't then its a separate discussion) you have to acknowledge that he has ultimate wisdom. so, who are you to question his wisdom?
Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 4:12 # -
Aqlib
BlockedChechen bhai,
I am not talking about the human perception of reality. I am talking about the reality itself. What's real is always real. Facts are facts. Why didn't allah give us a book of facts full of true scientific laws so we don't have to keep changing our laws as we learn new things on our own. Allah could have told us all there is to know since this knowledge has been useful to mankind and it is from allah, according to you.
Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 4:15 # -
Aqlib
Blocked"who are you to ask?
if you accept that there is a creator (if you don't then its a separate discussion) you have to acknowledge that he has ultimate wisdom. so, who are you to question his wisdom? "
Ok if we believe in your argument then we should accept the world as it is. Why do you fight against the west, secularism and democracy? The creator has the ultimate wisdom.
Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 4:21 # -
chechen
MemberAllah has given general guidelines in Quran for mankind to ponder, contemplate and explore. It is not a book of science as such but the broad scope that takes you from cradle to grave. It is up to us to extract the meaning of Quran and apply it for the benefit of mankind. The earlier generation did it and we can also do it if we are convinced that it is the source of knowledge.
Allah says in the Quran:
[Allah is] the Originator of the heavens and Earth. When He decides on something, He just says to it, "Be!" and it is. (Surat al-Baqara: 117)
Another place it says:
6:38 There is not an animal (that lives) on the earth, nor a being that flies on its wings, but (forms part of) communities like you. Nothing have we omitted from the Book, and they (all) shall be gathered to their Lord in the end.
Wama farratna fil kitaabi means that nothing has been left out of the Quran.
Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 4:28 # -
Aqlib
Blockedsir, comments are disappearing
Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 4:50 # -
Red-Scorpion
Blocked@Aqlib
Actually Ms. Beena has recently joined Khalifah group :))
Mine too are deleted !
@Beena
Excellent Moderation, keep it up !
BTW you will never become Khalifah, I'm telling you !Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 4:56 # -
Aqlib
BlockedI didn't know Ms moderator was deleting them. lol I thought there were some technical problems
Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 5:02 # -
Red-Scorpion
BlockedI don't know why women are not allowed to become Khalifahs ? :))
Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 5:04 # -
chechen
MemberScorpion, You will never become a mother and give birth to clown like you. Woman's role are different yet they are equal in sight of God Almighty. Don't show your "Western Secular" credentials by repeating the Kuffar mantra about Woman's right. Try something new.
Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 5:06 # -
Aqlib
Blockedguess it's written somewhere may be
Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 5:06 # -
zjshami
MemberI would like to discuss only two sentence from Mr. Chechan where he says that:
"It is abandonment of Quran and Hadith and rope of Allah."
He further says:
"Whatever progress happened was due to Islam and whatever progress will happen will be solely based on Islam."
1. The first intellectual answer has been given by
Mr. Yahya:
"Many western prominent scientists are not only non-Muslims they are also atheists. So not following a specific religion can’t be the reason for lack of scientific progress. I think its love for knowledge and research that takes you forward scientifically."
2. O.K. If by following Islam could infuse an electric wave of highest degree of Intelligence and IQ among the Muslims, how we could bring the Muslims back and close to Islam who have abandoned Islam?
3. The ground reality is that those who have hijacked the Aircraft of Islam have no credibility to attract the modern generation close to Islam.
This is the point we are discussing here for the last two years.Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 5:06 # -
chechen
MemberMay be Woman will be allowed to become Khalifa if most of the men turn to hijras. That will not happen. Take a hike.
Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 5:08 # -
Red-Scorpion
Blocked@Chechan
hahahaha
Wow, you've shown your true colours now !
Your above comments show your intellectual bankruptcy !
Carry on, one can always expect crapy comments from Khalifahs !Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 5:17 # -
Aqlib
Blocked@RS guess what happened to all the men when hazrat aisha fought battles
Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 5:21 # -
Red-Scorpion
Blocked@Aqlib
Many famous Sahaba fought the battle along side Aisha with the forces of Ali, I'm really wondering as you've raised a very logical point !
Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 5:24 # -
chechen
MemberThe ground reality is that those who have hijacked the Aircraft of Islam have no credibility to attract the modern generation close to Islam.
Who needs the credibility? Who cares about modern secular educated generation that is aping the decadent West as brown slaves. The primitive madrasa educated generation is giving a bitter lesson to the your Masters in nearby mountains. And the day is not far when the combined might of super powers will be crushed by those madrasa graduates.
"If by following Islam could infuse an electric wave of highest degree of Intelligence and IQ among the Muslims, how we could bring the Muslims back and close to Islam who have abandoned Islam?"
It was much more than a electric wave, more like a optical wave that smashed the super powers that ushered in the greatest civilization that ever lived. The process to smash the super powers of this century is under way. The great majority has abandoned Islam but there are still determined few who are there to check the war criminals and their supporters. They will turn the tide.
"Many western prominent scientists are not only non-Muslims they are also atheists. So not following a specific religion can’t be the reason for lack of scientific progress. I think its love for knowledge and research that takes you forward scientifically."
Keep the scinetific progress and research to yourself. We don't need the scientist at this stage. You can have them. At this point and time what is needed is the faith and belief to crush the manmade systems. Those scientists are akin to Pharoah's magicians that were humiliated and crushed by the Truth of Moosa AS. There is Moosa for every Pharoah. And the Moosa that will take on the modern day Pharoah is kicking and ready. Go figure.
Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 5:24 # -
Red-Scorpion
Blocked@Chechan Khalifah
"""Keep the scinetific progress and research to yourself. We don't need the scientist at this stage. You can have them. At this point and time what is needed is the faith and belief to crush the manmade systems. Those scientists are akin to Pharoah's magicians that were humiliated and crushed by the Truth of Moosa AS. There is Moosa for every Pharoah. And the Moosa that will take on the modern day Pharoah is kicking and ready. Go figure. """
>>>
Wow, your above comments show why Muslims are unable to produce scientists and thinkers !
Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 5:26 # -
chechen
Member@RS guess what happened to all the men when hazrat aisha fought battles
Don't mix Khilafa with one local battle. Ayesha RA was mentor of those who were in the field.
Allah SBT knows your filthy satanic inclination of equating the Sahaba who were the best of the mankind as hijras. Beware, Allah's punishment is swift.
Moderators, Take note. That is blasphemy being used against Sahaba Karaam. Shariah calls for death sentence for one who ridicule Sahaba Karaam.
Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 5:29 # -
Red-Scorpion
Blocked@Chechan Khalifah
First of all let me tell you, hijras are a reality and they are humans and for me they should have all the rights just like male and females !
Now, show me where did I've called Sahabas as 'hijras' ?
You know it's a very big crime in Islam to wrongly blame others :)))Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 5:33 # -
chechen
MemberWow, your above comments show why Muslims are unable to produce scientists and thinkers !
Where do the scientists survive when their system as a whole is being crushed? What we need is Mujahids and not scientific hijras dancing to the tune of the decadent West.
Learn from Quran. All the best magicians of the world aka scientists of Pharoah could not match Moosa AS. It is lesson for mankind to ponder and reflect and understand. Alas, the poison of West's secular education has contaminated your brain cells.
Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 5:35 # -
Red-Scorpion
Blocked@Chechan Mujahid
"""What we need is Mujahids and not scientific hijras dancing to the tune of the decadent West."""
>>>
Are you in Chechniya or in Afghanistan ?
Why are you wasting your time here? Shouldn't you be helping your Taliban brethren at battle fields ?Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 5:42 # -
Red-Scorpion
Blocked@Chechan Khalifah
"""Learn from Quran. All the best magicians of the world aka scientists of Pharoah could not match Moosa AS"""
>>>
Wow, so all the scientists like Newton, Einstein, and Galileo were magicians ?
Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 5:44 # -
Revivalist
memberBro chechan,
In fact these fanatic seculars are severly suffering from intellectual recession and has nothing to say or to prove. They are like those hypocrits who call other people ugly while hidding behind the mask.....
Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 5:51 # -
chechen
MemberRS has shown his ignorance. He failed to understand the symbolism of magicians during the time of Moosa AS. Every Prophet that Allah SBT sent to mankind was selected for the particular time and place that best suited the message that the Prophets carried to the mankind.
All scientists and historians agree that the period of Pharoah was the time when magicians excelled in their profession. The historins have unanimously agreed that the art of magic was at its peak during Pharoah's time in human history. That was the reason for Allah SBT to sent Moosa AS to challenge Pharoah. As expected Pharoah wanted to boast of his magicians that were the best the world ever produced. The subsequent confrontation and the humiliation of the magicians against Moosa'a staff is a proof that man made magic or any other "scientific" gadget is no match for the power of God Almighty.
It should be noted that the magicians fell before Moosa AS acknowledging the supremacy of God Almighty and they embraced Islam, only to be executed by Pharoah. Those magicians knew very well that the power of Moosa AS to kill their snakes was not magic but something far far greater than it.
Aren't the magicians of yester years not akin to the scientists of today? Now coming back to this era, whatever scientists can produce and discover, it will be crushed by the truth seeking Believers. No need to acquire that scientific knowledge. It was same with Moosa AS who had no knowledge of magic but was a true Believer.
Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 5:59 # -
Red-Scorpion
Blocked@Chechan Mujahid
"""Now coming back to this era, whatever scientists can produce and discover, it will be crushed by the truth seeking Believers. No need to acquire that scientific knowledge. It was same with Moosa AS who had no knowledge of magic but was a true Believer."""
>>>
BTW are you comparing today's muslims with Moosa ? Do Muslims have direct communication with God nowadays ?
Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 6:09 # -
Revivalist
memberRS,
Armstrong writes, "Muslim scholars made more scientific discoveries during this time than in the whole of previously recorded history".
Gaston Wiet comments, "People of the west should publicly express their gratitude to the scholars of the Abbasid period, who were known and appreciated in Europe during the Middle Ages".
I wonder how can you negate the statments of your masters praising Islam, Muslims and their invalubale contribution to the humanity???
Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 6:57 # -
zjshami
MemberMr. Chechan,
Read what you wrote:
"Keep the scinetific progress and research to yourself. We don't need the scientist at this stage. You can have them. At this point and time what is needed is the faith and belief to crush the manmade systems. Those scientists are akin to Pharoah's magicians that were humiliated and crushed by the Truth of Moosa AS. There is Moosa for every Pharoah. And the Moosa that will take on the modern day Pharoah is kicking and ready. Go figure."You should have written this sentence just at the beginning of the debate.
There would have been no waste of time on 230 postings.
First you and your supporters kept on trying to defend and prove that there were very prominent Muslim Sceintists and Islam gave them light to flourish.
Now at the end of the debate you say that all inventions and scientific achievements are HARAM and UNISLAMIC.
I guess the Moderators should also keep an eye on such Scholars who are here just to waste our time.Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 12:53 # -
chechen
MemberYou don't understand my friend. The discoveries and inventions were stagnant during last 200 years not 1000 years. And this was directly proportional to colonialistic onslaught that ravaged the Muslim lands. The looting, ravaging and rape of Muslim lands is exacerbated by the neo colonialists that are currently waging the so called war on terror.
Nothing meaningful is possible whether it is scientific or otherwise unless and until these invaders are put in order. The environment conducive to science and technology does not exist. Just like the early generation of Muslims smashed the super powers of those days that culminated in a era of scientific inventions and discoveries that the world is indebted to, we need to smash the neo colonialists super powers of these days to enable the development and progress in scientific arena. The priority today is to confront the oppressors and invaders. Scientific mindset will follow suit later. Need to put the horse before the cart.
Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 14:01 # -
yahya
Member"The environment conducive to science and technology does not exist."
Never has such an environment existed better than today. We are just not taking advantage of it.
Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 14:18 # -
shahzad1924
member"Never has such an environment existed better than today. We are just not taking advantage of it."
yeah you are right, we have never seen so much blood on our TV screens before. never before have we seen so much of our brothers displaced from their homes, spending their suhur and aftaars in make-shift tents. never before have we seen this level of treachery from our rulers.
you are right, this is the perfect environment to be thinking about science!
Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 14:22 # -
zjshami
MemberThere is no fixed time.
It is the principle of necessity and demand.
From Day One mankind and Human Nature has an instinct to struggle for better to the best.
It would be criminal and cruel to put a ban and limit on the human thinking in the name of religion and faith.
Any action or policy to block the progress of human values would be defeated, in the process.
The Drone of Knowledge and Urge would destroy a stagnant and stinking pond of ignorance and arrogance.Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 14:41 # -
chechen
MemberFirst of all religion is much more than what the secular education inherited from colonial thugs has taught us.
"From Day One mankind and Human Nature has an instinct to struggle for better to the best."
That is exactly the instinct that reinforces the desire to be free and capable of standing on your own feet. Faith is the essential ingredient that enables the attainment of that goal and not vice versa. Taking faith out of the equation is tantamout to taking soul out of the body.
Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 14:51 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
I can clearly see, this thread has been bombarded by foolish comments, by people who are here, not to learn, not to understand, not to see the truth, but to waste their as well as others's time in worthless as well as endless arguments.
Posted 2 years ago on 01 Sep 2009 19:45 # -
Revivalist
memberArmstrong writes, "Muslim scholars made more scientific discoveries during this time than in the whole of previously recorded history".
Gaston Wiet comments, "People of the west should publicly express their gratitude to the scholars of the Abbasid period, who were known and appreciated in Europe during the Middle Ages".
I wonder how can you negate the statments of your masters praising Islam, Muslims and their invalubale contribution to the humanity???
Posted 2 years ago on 02 Sep 2009 7:12 # -
khurram Zaman
MemberRed-Scorpian/yahaya/shami,
You missunderstand the whole battle between Hazrat Aisha and Hazrat Ali.
This war never initiated by these Both Personalities nor Hazrat Aisha delibratly involved in this battle.
This is was just a difference of opinion between Hazrat Aisha and Hazrat Ali.
Some one else arranged this battle between them.
If you have any proof other than this than come and prove that Hazrat Aisha were elected as a head for this battle/Khalifa.
But it shows your Intellectual Bankruptcy here,Morale Bankruptcy,Indecent approach,Religious bankruptcy etc..
You just created a situation out of context and start discussing over here.
As related to ur previous down fall and insulting exit may create disturbance for you,from time to time so you come with such language and tone abt religious facts..
Fight back is never possible in that way.try to relax..Posted 2 years ago on 02 Sep 2009 7:50 # -
yahya
MemberArmstrong writes, "Muslim scholars..."
Isn’t Armstrong non-Muslim infidel? Are you going to believe him?
Posted 2 years ago on 02 Sep 2009 16:29 # -
chechen
MemberSure we believe them if they are telling the truth. Sometimes kuffar have no other choice but to acknowledge the contribution of Muslims. Some of the Kuffar are neutral observers and their interets in Islamic civilization is purely academic. Armstrong may be one of them.
Posted 2 years ago on 02 Sep 2009 16:36 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
@yahya: You should take the definition of infidel from Quran-o-Hadees, rather than from some hatemongerer. This was a stupid! Q
Posted 2 years ago on 02 Sep 2009 16:40 # -
zjshami
MemberDear Revivalist,
At this forum most of the scholars are not worried about the Greatness of Islam which is above all doubts.
Greatness of ISLAM, ALLAH, QURAN and PROPHET (PBUH) has been established, acknowledged, accepted, endorsed, verified and upheld.Dear Scholar,
WE ARE CONCERNED about the miserable economic, social, political and moral condition of the MUSLIMS.Why the patient is still lying at the bed where he has the best antidote at his cabinet?
Posted 2 years ago on 02 Sep 2009 16:42 # -
chechen
MemberWhy the patient is still lying at the bed where he has the best antidote at his cabinet?
He is not taking the right prescription. He has been sick due to constant doze or potions of secular education, interest based economic system, political systems run by installed stooges and puppets.
Posted 2 years ago on 02 Sep 2009 16:49 # -
yahya
Member"He has been sick due to constant doze or potions of secular education"
Isn't Pakistani atom bomb a product of secular education? Among other achievement.
Posted 2 years ago on 02 Sep 2009 17:54 # -
chechen
MemberEven yehidis have that education and several of such bombs. That bomb is not an "achievement". Tell me what did you achieve by that? India also has that bomb? You are still slave of US war criminals who are using Pakistan as canon fodder in their so called war on terror. The real achievement is when you combine such technology with absolute belief in God Almighty and then Allah promises you success in this world and hereafter.
Posted 2 years ago on 02 Sep 2009 18:07 # -
chechen
MemberI would say the Afghans have made significant achievement by their home made bombs against the occupiers. Even West has acknowldged their failure and are now getting ready for Sovietstyle humiliationand defeat. Remember the combined armies of the world's super powers are there to crush the Mujahideen and have failed miserably.
Lesson: Home made bomb is more powerful than Atom bomb if you have faith.
Posted 2 years ago on 02 Sep 2009 18:14 #
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