PKPolitics Discuss » Current Issues

No democracy, no dictatorship, no bloody revolution

(76 posts)
  1. Revivalist
    member

    The establishment of the Khilafah is real change

    Today, throughout Pakistan, there is talk of revolution and change, in the houses, offices, factories, streets and public places, amongst the elite and the masses. The Muslims are enraged at the oppressor rulers for their numerous crimes against Islam and Muslims. Tens of millions of Muslims, within the flood hit areas and outside of them, are denied their basic economic needs because of the rulers’ implementation of the exploitative capitalist economic system, despite the immense resources of Pakistan, including coal, gold and copper and despite the fact that their deen, Islam, has an economic system that for over a millennium was the admiration of the world. Despite Pakistan having the world’s seventh largest armed forces, the Muslims are plunged into insecurity through the oppressor rulers’ giving America a free hand within Pakistan, with bombings in the public places organized by American private military organizations and US drone attacks collapsing the house on the heads of the Muslims in the tribal areas. And despite the Muslims adhering and sacrificing for Islam over centuries, the rulers are undermining the noble Islamic values by allowing the colonialist institutions to defile the education syllabus, under the banner of education reform, and Western companies to propagate their filthy culture, under the banner of marketing and cultural festivals.

    Pakistan’s current capitalist system is only here to serve the kaafir colonialists and their agents. For over half a century, the Westerner installs rulers who implement kufr and the Muslims despise them. When the Muslims’ hatred reaches their throats and spills over into a strong public opinion, obstructing the agent ruler from implementing the will of his masters, the kuffar colonialists become active to release the pressure on the system by dumping their agent and installing a new agent, whether by elections or coup. And each shameless agent knows that it is his job to blame the previous ruler for as long as he can and then make room for the next when he is exposed. This is how Musharraf came and went, how Zardari came and how he may go and so on. This is why the people realize that elections in the current system will only bring more oppression. And this is also why the people have lost confidence in the current system and current political leaderships that compete to enter it, whether democrats or dictators.

    No real change can come through the current system, ever. This colonialist system can never be reformed, improved or bring any good for the Muslims. This system will always oppress the ruled for the sake of the rulers because in essence the current system is a kufr system which is built upon implementing the whims and desires of the colonialist masters and the agent rulers, whether the rulers are a dictator and his entourage or an entire assembly of parliamentarians or even a group of technocrats and “clean politicians.” It is a system of whims and desires to exploit the ruled and deny them of their rights and the blessings that Allah سبحانه و تعالى bestowed upon them, even though Allah سبحانه و تعالى said,

    فَاحْكُمْ بَيْنَهُمْ بِمَا أَنزَلَ اللَّهُ وَلاَ تَتَّبِعْ أَهْوَاءَهُمْ عَمَّا جَاءَكَ مِنْ الْحَقِّ

    “And rule between them by all that which Allah revealed to you, and do not follow their vain desires away from the truth which came to you.” [Surah Al-Mai’dah 5:48]

    O Muslims of Pakistan!

    Only the Khilafah will bring real change because it is a system built on implementing the laws revealed by Allah سبحانه و تعالى. It is the system that implements what is right, denies what is wrong and protects the ruled from oppression and injustice because of the whims and desires, likes and dislikes, of a few. It protects the people by ensuring that only the Lord of the Worlds decides what is Good and Bad, right and wrong, legal and illegal, and thus the corrupt agents and their colonialist masters cannot exploit the masses. Allah سبحانه و تعالى said,

    وَعَسى أَنْ تَكْرَهُوا شَيْئًا وَهُوَ خَيْرٌ لَكُمْ وَعَسَى أَنْ تُحِبُّوا شَيْئًا وَهُوَ شَرٌّ لَكُمْ وَاللَّهُ يَعْلَمُ وَأَنْتُمْ لاَ تَعْلَمُونَ

    “It could be that you dislike something and it is Good for you and it could be that you like something and it is Bad for you. Allah knows and you know not” [Surah al-Baqarah 2:216]

    It is the Khilafah alone that binds the ruler to the one True Deen, Islam, forcing him to forsake his personal gains, likes, whims and desires. The Khaleefah is bound to implement laws that are revealed by Allah سبحانه و تعالى. The Khilafah has a Court of Unjust Acts that will remove any ruler that implements kufr. The Khilafah will allow political parties that account the ruler on the basis of Islam, without the need for any permission or permit, because it is an Islamic duty sanctioned by the Lord of the Worlds. And it will encourage the Ummah, the aware from amongst them, the ulema, the media people and others, to carry out their duty to account the rulers within the elected Majlis-e-Ummah and outside of it.

    Only a rightly guided Khaleefah will bring real change in Pakistan, within hours. The Khaleefah will immediately end all forms of co-operation with the American crusaders and expel both their diplomatic and military staff from Muslim Lands. The Khaleefah will cut the NATO supply line that crosses Pakistan to starve the crusader occupation in Afghanistan. He will reclaim vital military assets that can be employed for the relief efforts such as the airbase near Jacobabad and airspace used by American drones. He will encourage the sincere from the Muslims of the tribal areas and Baluchistan to join the ranks of the Khilafah’s armed forces, exposing the munafiqeen amongst the ranks of the Muslims, and allowing the Muslims to act as one hand on behalf of the Muslims and Islam. He will release billions of dollars worth of wealth by; ending the private ownership of the public properties, such as gas and minerals, and using their immense revenue to benefit all the citizens of the Khilafah, ending all forms of usury based debt servicing to the colonialist institutions and establishing the Islamic system of revenues which brings relief for the poor and takes only from those who are not needy and not beyond what they can bear. And the Khaleefah will work to unify all the Muslim countries as the single most resourceful state in the world. All this is a natural consequence of a Khaleefah comprehensively implementing Islam.

    O Muslims of Pakistan’s armed forces!

    How long will you allow the colonialists and their agents to cheat your people and deny them real change? Will you stand and watch as yet another cosmetic change to the current kufr system takes place? No doubt, real change lies in your hands. Your people are ready for real change and demand it. America is weaker than at any point before, with its armed forces stretched to breaking and its economy collapsed beyond recovery. And Allah سبحانه و تعالى is your Helper, the One who throughout history assisted His Righteous Slaves as a sign to the kuffar that He سبحانه و تعالى is with the Muslims, even when they were heavily outnumbered and weak in resources. Rather than supporting another cosmetic change within the current system, you must move now and uproot the kufr colonialist system and give the Nussrah to Hizb ut-Tahrir for the establishment of the Khilafah. Step forward so that the current rulers and their kufr current system are replaced by a sincere leadership, ruling by Islam and securing the blessings of Allah سبحانه و تعالى in terms of reward, security and prosperity. Allah سبحانه وتعالى said,

    وَعَدَ اللَّهُ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا مِنْكُمْ وَعَمِلُوا الصَّالِحَاتِ لَيَسْتَخْلِفَنَّهُم فِي الأَرْضِ كَمَا اسْتَخْلَفَ الَّذِينَ مِنْ قَبْلِهِمْ وَلَيُمَكِّنَنَّ لَهُمْ دِينَهُمُ الَّذِي ارْتَضَى لَهُمْ وَلَيُبَدِّلَنَّهُمْ مِنْ بَعْدِ خَوْفِهِمْ أَمْنًا يَعْبُدُونَنِي لاَ يُشْرِكُونَ بِي شَيْئًا وَمَنْ كَفَرَ بَعْدَ ذَلِكَ فَأُوْلَئِكَ هُمْ الْفَاسِقُونَ

    “Allâh has promised those among you who believe and do righteous good deeds, that He will certainly grant them succession to (the present rulers) in the land, as He granted it to those before them, and that He will grant them the authority to practise their religion which He has chosen for them (i.e. Islâm). And He will surely give them in exchange a safe security after their fear (provided) they (believers) worship Me and do not associate anything (in worship) with Me. But whoever disbelieved after this, they are the Fâsiqûn (rebellious, disobedient to Allâh).” [Surah an-Noor 24:55

    The establishment of the Khilafah is real change

    Today, throughout Pakistan, there is talk of revolution and change, in the houses, offices, factories, streets and public places, amongst the elite and the masses. The Muslims are enraged at the oppressor rulers for their numerous crimes against Islam and Muslims. Tens of millions of Muslims, within the flood hit areas and outside of them, are denied their basic economic needs because of the rulers’ implementation of the exploitative capitalist economic system, despite the immense resources of Pakistan, including coal, gold and copper and despite the fact that their deen, Islam, has an economic system that for over a millennium was the admiration of the world. Despite Pakistan having the world’s seventh largest armed forces, the Muslims are plunged into insecurity through the oppressor rulers’ giving America a free hand within Pakistan, with bombings in the public places organized by American private military organizations and US drone attacks collapsing the house on the heads of the Muslims in the tribal areas. And despite the Muslims adhering and sacrificing for Islam over centuries, the rulers are undermining the noble Islamic values by allowing the colonialist institutions to defile the education syllabus, under the banner of education reform, and Western companies to propagate their filthy culture, under the banner of marketing and cultural festivals.

    Pakistan’s current capitalist system is only here to serve the kaafir colonialists and their agents. For over half a century, the Westerner installs rulers who implement kufr and the Muslims despise them. When the Muslims’ hatred reaches their throats and spills over into a strong public opinion, obstructing the agent ruler from implementing the will of his masters, the kuffar colonialists become active to release the pressure on the system by dumping their agent and installing a new agent, whether by elections or coup. And each shameless agent knows that it is his job to blame the previous ruler for as long as he can and then make room for the next when he is exposed. This is how Musharraf came and went, how Zardari came and how he may go and so on. This is why the people realize that elections in the current system will only bring more oppression. And this is also why the people have lost confidence in the current system and current political leaderships that compete to enter it, whether democrats or dictators.

    No real change can come through the current system, ever. This colonialist system can never be reformed, improved or bring any good for the Muslims. This system will always oppress the ruled for the sake of the rulers because in essence the current system is a kufr system which is built upon implementing the whims and desires of the colonialist masters and the agent rulers, whether the rulers are a dictator and his entourage or an entire assembly of parliamentarians or even a group of technocrats and “clean politicians.” It is a system of whims and desires to exploit the ruled and deny them of their rights and the blessings that Allah سبحانه و تعالى bestowed upon them, even though Allah سبحانه و تعالى said,

    فَاحْكُمْ بَيْنَهُمْ بِمَا أَنزَلَ اللَّهُ وَلاَ تَتَّبِعْ أَهْوَاءَهُمْ عَمَّا جَاءَكَ مِنْ الْحَقِّ

    “And rule between them by all that which Allah revealed to you, and do not follow their vain desires away from the truth which came to you.” [Surah Al-Mai’dah 5:48]

    O Muslims of Pakistan!

    Only the Khilafah will bring real change because it is a system built on implementing the laws revealed by Allah سبحانه و تعالى. It is the system that implements what is right, denies what is wrong and protects the ruled from oppression and injustice because of the whims and desires, likes and dislikes, of a few. It protects the people by ensuring that only the Lord of the Worlds decides what is Good and Bad, right and wrong, legal and illegal, and thus the corrupt agents and their colonialist masters cannot exploit the masses. Allah سبحانه و تعالى said,

    وَعَسى أَنْ تَكْرَهُوا شَيْئًا وَهُوَ خَيْرٌ لَكُمْ وَعَسَى أَنْ تُحِبُّوا شَيْئًا وَهُوَ شَرٌّ لَكُمْ وَاللَّهُ يَعْلَمُ وَأَنْتُمْ لاَ تَعْلَمُونَ

    “It could be that you dislike something and it is Good for you and it could be that you like something and it is Bad for you. Allah knows and you know not” [Surah al-Baqarah 2:216]

    It is the Khilafah alone that binds the ruler to the one True Deen, Islam, forcing him to forsake his personal gains, likes, whims and desires. The Khaleefah is bound to implement laws that are revealed by Allah سبحانه و تعالى. The Khilafah has a Court of Unjust Acts that will remove any ruler that implements kufr. The Khilafah will allow political parties that account the ruler on the basis of Islam, without the need for any permission or permit, because it is an Islamic duty sanctioned by the Lord of the Worlds. And it will encourage the Ummah, the aware from amongst them, the ulema, the media people and others, to carry out their duty to account the rulers within the elected Majlis-e-Ummah and outside of it.

    Only a rightly guided Khaleefah will bring real change in Pakistan, within hours. The Khaleefah will immediately end all forms of co-operation with the American crusaders and expel both their diplomatic and military staff from Muslim Lands. The Khaleefah will cut the NATO supply line that crosses Pakistan to starve the crusader occupation in Afghanistan. He will reclaim vital military assets that can be employed for the relief efforts such as the airbase near Jacobabad and airspace used by American drones. He will encourage the sincere from the Muslims of the tribal areas and Baluchistan to join the ranks of the Khilafah’s armed forces, exposing the munafiqeen amongst the ranks of the Muslims, and allowing the Muslims to act as one hand on behalf of the Muslims and Islam. He will release billions of dollars worth of wealth by; ending the private ownership of the public properties, such as gas and minerals, and using their immense revenue to benefit all the citizens of the Khilafah, ending all forms of usury based debt servicing to the colonialist institutions and establishing the Islamic system of revenues which brings relief for the poor and takes only from those who are not needy and not beyond what they can bear. And the Khaleefah will work to unify all the Muslim countries as the single most resourceful state in the world. All this is a natural consequence of a Khaleefah comprehensively implementing Islam.

    O Muslims of Pakistan’s armed forces!

    How long will you allow the colonialists and their agents to cheat your people and deny them real change? Will you stand and watch as yet another cosmetic change to the current kufr system takes place? No doubt, real change lies in your hands. Your people are ready for real change and demand it. America is weaker than at any point before, with its armed forces stretched to breaking and its economy collapsed beyond recovery. And Allah سبحانه و تعالى is your Helper, the One who throughout history assisted His Righteous Slaves as a sign to the kuffar that He سبحانه و تعالى is with the Muslims, even when they were heavily outnumbered and weak in resources. Rather than supporting another cosmetic change within the current system, you must move now and uproot the kufr colonialist system and give the Nussrah to Hizb ut-Tahrir for the establishment of the Khilafah. Step forward so that the current rulers and their kufr current system are replaced by a sincere leadership, ruling by Islam and securing the blessings of Allah سبحانه و تعالى in terms of reward, security and prosperity. Allah سبحانه وتعالى said,

    وَعَدَ اللَّهُ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا مِنْكُمْ وَعَمِلُوا الصَّالِحَاتِ لَيَسْتَخْلِفَنَّهُم فِي الأَرْضِ كَمَا اسْتَخْلَفَ الَّذِينَ مِنْ قَبْلِهِمْ وَلَيُمَكِّنَنَّ لَهُمْ دِينَهُمُ الَّذِي ارْتَضَى لَهُمْ وَلَيُبَدِّلَنَّهُمْ مِنْ بَعْدِ خَوْفِهِمْ أَمْنًا يَعْبُدُونَنِي لاَ يُشْرِكُونَ بِي شَيْئًا وَمَنْ كَفَرَ بَعْدَ ذَلِكَ فَأُوْلَئِكَ هُمْ الْفَاسِقُونَ

    “Allâh has promised those among you who believe and do righteous good deeds, that He will certainly grant them succession to (the present rulers) in the land, as He granted it to those before them, and that He will grant them the authority to practise their religion which He has chosen for them (i.e. Islâm). And He will surely give them in exchange a safe security after their fear (provided) they (believers) worship Me and do not associate anything (in worship) with Me. But whoever disbelieved after this, they are the Fâsiqûn (rebellious, disobedient to Allâh).” [Surah an-Noor 24:5]

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    Posted 1 year ago on 25 Sep 2010 9:55 #
  2. Revivalist
    member

    Please read it once :)

    Posted 1 year ago on 25 Sep 2010 10:00 #
  3. Truthlover
    Member

    I really wanted to stay away from futile argumentations with people with fixed ideas but can't refrain from asking.
    How are we to get this Mr. Great, by democratic means or through a military coup?

    Posted 1 year ago on 25 Sep 2010 10:41 #
  4. Revivalist
    member

    Please read the last paragraph!

    Posted 1 year ago on 25 Sep 2010 10:53 #
  5. jasim
    Blocked

    khilafat will come but there is no person at the moment. who can run the khilafat,

    Its the view point of Taliban they want take over Pakistan that dream will never come true, we are Muslims we will do every thing that Islam gives us, This need is where there is no way for Muslims to do their islamic ibadat we are in Muslim country. not yahudi,essai, hindu. so please some people who are supporting Taliban with uses of Quran and sunnah we don;t need that type of killers.

    Posted 1 year ago on 25 Sep 2010 10:59 #
  6. Revivalist
    member

    HT provides Ummah with leadership and solution of her problems. Besides, we have to understand and analyze what other organization and groups are offering in terms of solution to the problems of Ummah, undoubtedly so called Taliban has no solution or blue print of what exactly they want.

    Posted 1 year ago on 25 Sep 2010 11:06 #
  7. Revivalist, please, do us a great favour, would you. In a short paragraph or so, tell us what exactly is the HT, where it stands in relation to TTP, to Afghanistan, Kashmir.

    Not to consider it a PR manifesto. Explain as you might explain to a friend who is overcome by ignorance. Not because you wish to sell, but because you wish to dispel the fogs of not knowing. Thank you.

    Posted 1 year ago on 25 Sep 2010 11:21 #
  8. shimatoree
    Member

    Mg-

                 Before anyone can promote Khilafat-

    as the Lawyers say a complete disclosure of what went on during the so-called Khilafat need to be made and assesed and examined.

                Then we need to look at the present conditions and see even if such a thing is possible.

                 All politics is local.

    Which means that a system decided by a bunch of people ( selected and decided by Magic somehow)

    will not play in this world of Pushtoons, Punjabis, Sindhis and Baluch- add to them the Arabs of Yemen, Iraq, Syria, the Shias of Iran and the Sunnis of Turkey, the North Africans.

    Posted 1 year ago on 25 Sep 2010 17:50 #
  9. Abdul Rahman
    Member

    All politics is local?

    This is as per Kuffar dictionary. As per Islam, politics is global and is much beyond the kafir terminology of politics that is much in use due to colonialistic heritage. Like it or not Khilafa is coming. So plan accordingly and look for retreat if you insist on  living  under pagan laws inherited from kuffar.

    Posted 1 year ago on 25 Sep 2010 17:57 #
  10. Abdul Rahman
    Member

    It was not your forefathers, elders, scholars that demarcated the boundary between Muslim countries, for example Afghanistan and Pakistan and Kashmir. It was your former Masters that divided us into banana republics to have perpetual control  and you love it so much?

    Posted 1 year ago on 25 Sep 2010 18:01 #
  11. Truthlover
    Member

    What, are we looking for some saudi prince to declare himsel a universal ruler of Islam?Certainly the colonial masters devised and demarcated the lands but could they leave Delhi and Agra to us as well?Weren't we the real sons of soil?These banana republics were always there, it's just that we were blind to the truth.

    Posted 1 year ago on 25 Sep 2010 18:59 #
  12. Abdul Rahman
    Member

    Yes, that prince of the desert  that got all of us out of darkness. Not your  playboy "saudi" prince that itself is creation of colonialists but the Prince of the poor until the Day of Judegement-Prophet SAS. It is your choice if you want to  rot again in perpetual darkness.

    Posted 1 year ago on 25 Sep 2010 19:06 #
  13. haroonyahya
    Member

    shima toree mean khilafat is wrong yes in the eye of kuffar kilafat is wrong so simple.khilafat is for muslims and established by muslimsshima toree need to explain quran sunnah islamic rules and other islamic laws are false.muslims no need to discuss about shimatoree comments because muslims belive in islamic rules not non muslims

    Posted 1 year ago on 25 Sep 2010 19:13 #
  14. Truthlover
    Member

    Abdul Rehman,

    Now you talk confused, are we talking about the messenger of God, who brought blessings of God or are we talking about some worldy prince, you call caliph?
    If you meant prophet P.B.U.H, then be sure he is done with his earthly duties and can only guide us spiritually. For our worldly problems we have to find someone with both feet on ground.

    Posted 1 year ago on 25 Sep 2010 19:38 #
  15. shimatoree
    Member

     Khilafat has as much chance of coming as growing corn and sugar cane on Mars ! Get real. Face the facts. If not- well keep dreaming.

    Posted 1 year ago on 25 Sep 2010 21:08 #
  16. Abdul Rahman
    Member

    TL,
     
    You seem to be the one who is confused and cannot comprehend the message of the real truthlover-Prophet SAS- May the peace of Allah be upon him. When you talk about "wordly" and "spritually" and "earthly" you have no clue about the teachings of Islam that encompass every domain from cradel to grave. Prophet and his succesors always had 2 feet very much entrenched in the  ground.

    TL, This type of warped thinking stems due to living under the laws and regulations of Kuffar. Prophet SAS was a Prophet, General, Khalifah, husband, father, Imam all in ONE. He was spritual and material in one unlike christian/western style of dualism. When you say earthly, two feet on ground and soul in heaven you are talking like Kuffar that elevate man to God and have relagated their religion to Sunday worship.

    Posted 1 year ago on 25 Sep 2010 23:18 #
  17. shafiq12
    member

    Truthlover and Shimatoree

    Allah Subhana wa tahala has made it an obligation on us to refer solely to the Quran and the Sunnah of His beloved Messenger (PBUH) in matters of ruling, economy, and settling the affairs of the people. As long as we tolerate the rule of the Muslim despots - who do not rule by what Allah Subhana wa tahala has revealed - we can only expect our present-day condition to persist. Allah Subhana wa tahala has revealed:

    "And rule between them by that which Allah has revealed and follow not their vain desires, but beware that they may turn you away from some of what Allah has revealed to you." [Al-Maaida, 5:49]

    Re-establishing the Khilafah -
     a comprehensive system of governance, education, courts, and other societal institutions which are based on the Quran and Sunnah - in the Muslim lands is the only way of bringing Islam back into our daily lives, free from the influence and dominance of kufr.

    Khilafah: One of the Highest Obligations

    The fardiyah (obligation) of Khilafah is well known to the Ummah, but some may consider it a low priority. Allah Subhana wa Tahal has revealed:

    "And no, by your Lord, they will not believe until they refer to your judgment in all disputes between them then find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission." [An-Nisaa, 4:65]

    Islam has made the unity of the Islamic Ummah and the unity of the State as one of the vital issues. This is manifested in two cases: plurality of Khulafaa' and rebellion against the Islamic State. Imam Muslim reported on the authority of Abdullah ibn Amr ibn al-' Aas that he heard the Messenger of Allah(PBUH) say: "He who pledged his Bay' ah (oath) to an Imam giving him the clasp of his hand and the fruit of his heart shall obey him as long as he can, and if another comes to dispute with him, you must strike the neck of that man."

    It has also been reported on the authority of Abu Said Al-Khudri that the Messenger of Allah PBUH said:

    "If a Bay'ah has been taken for two Khaleefah's, kill the latter of them." [Muslim]

    Hence, he(PBUH) made the unity of the State a vital issue when he prohibited the plurality of the Khulafaa' and ordered the death penalty for the one who insists, after being advised against it, on establishing multiple leaders within the Islamic State. It has also been reported on the authority of Arfaja who said: ‘I heard the Messenger of Allah PBUH say:

    "He who comes to you while your affair has been united under one man, intending to drive a wedge between you or fragment your group (Jama' ah), kill him." [Muslim]

    Now that the Islamic State no longer exists, these ahadith indicate the level of priority we must give to ensure that the Ummah is united under the leadership of one Khalifah (Caliph). We must understand that the unity of the Ummah is a "matter of life and death" and therefore we must exert our utmost effort to re-establish the Khilafah in the Muslim lands according to the Prophet's method

    Posted 1 year ago on 26 Sep 2010 2:14 #
  18. toamin
    member

    muslims are already in authority in many muslim countries, only a group of people is needed that can take authority away from corrupt rulers and return it back to Islam.


    What does it mean by returning authority to Islam? That we decide matters based on sharia and make that as benchmark.

    Posted 1 year ago on 26 Sep 2010 5:01 #
  19. zenith
    Member

    Some friends here just copy and paste religious references which cannot be debated.

    Posted 1 year ago on 26 Sep 2010 5:04 #
  20. toamin
    member

    let us take example of pakistan which i think is a good one.


    We had local politics, but then all different ethnicities, linguals, areas, races joined together under one banner of Islam, probably we are one of the most ethnically diverse muslim country, all united (so far) under one banner, but now we see the bond weakening due to rise of nationalistic calls, ethnic call from karachi, from peshawar, from queta, from seraiki, from kashmir, they are all weakening us, so we need again a leader who could unite all ethnicities under the banner of islam, but this time not only unite but also change the order by restoring authority to islam (not an individual)

    Posted 1 year ago on 26 Sep 2010 5:12 #
  21. Revivalist
    member

    The problem with these who oppose khilafah is that they themselves are unaware about its details. Besides, they also don’t know much about Islam as solution to the problems of humanity and a complete code of life. The issue with this kind of thinking is that they superimpose western history over Islam and want to reform Islam and take Islam out of political sphere, the way west did with Christianity. I am sure if they read authentic books and stop relying on propaganda literature, whose sole purpose is to malign Islam, they can easily grasp the trueness of Islam and its applicability in 21st century and centuries to come.

    Posted 1 year ago on 26 Sep 2010 6:43 #
  22. Truthlover
    Member

    AR,

    Why do you keep mixing the question of caliph with the prophet? No one is denying that he was a great personality and was a true messenger of God. He had a great mission, he accomplished it and went back to his source. All the rest is just a debate and I have no intention of entering into that with people having little patience or tolerance for those having different opinion than theirs.
    As far as the question of caliphite is concerned you may keep dreaming of some utopian system and personality, we all have right to have dreams, right? Caliph, king, president, Ameer, Sheikh, Emperor, Czar,.....names of this office and ruler are many, so what it matters with which name you call this messiah like person.
    The question is why this true ruler never appeared in the process of history and we just get one idiot after the other?
    It's interesting to note that you still believe in fairy tales. The truth is that we humans are imperfect and so are instituations developed by us. Divine laws in the hands of imperfect beings don't become perfect automatically.
    "TL, This type of warped thinking stems due to living under the laws and regulations of Kuffar."
    That's interesting statement, you liver in this Kafir society and get all the possible benefits, rights and freedoms and yet criticise it. Why don't you go back to some Islamic and pure country, if it's that bad there? You surely want to hanker for Islamic society from afar, don't you?
    The truth is that these godless societies don't chop off your heads, they don't cut your hands for minor crimes, they give you dignity and honour, regardless of your beliefs. I'm not here to compare west with other societies or claim that they are perfect, just to underline that living in west doesn't automatically maens a deluded mind and heart. You haver your choice and we have ours, you can't change our minds with intimidation or by your aggressivity. I believe in God but consider my relation with him none of the buisness of the state and that's that.

    Posted 1 year ago on 26 Sep 2010 10:33 #
  23. Truthlover
    Member

    SS,

    Now I know your way of communication and find it not attractive, it's more like a spam. Your views I do respect but you're all one pointed to have a constructive dialogue with. You have chosen to remain unattentive to others questions and arguments. You answer back the things that suit you and ignore the rest, that's not a dialogue but monologue.
    I always thought that people like you are knowledgeable but now I realize that you all want to spread your views and beliefs without even caring to seek the truth, it feels more like hitting one's head against the concrete wall.
    I need to warn you that the truth never comes by insistance on knowing it before hand. No state of being is perfect and it never will be. We all try to get better and not perfect, it's only God that is perfect.
    If it's a caliph you want then a caliph shall you get but to what benifit? When Ottoman Empire dispersed the muslims of Inda mourned, tell me was it really a loss to lose that corrupt monarchy?
    We muslims are no better than other faiths, we just don't get it.
    We indulge in Shirk, without even realising it, we are hypocrites, talking great words and act contrary.
    We are deceitful to our brothers and sisters, we chaet, we kill, we oppress and do all other evils but think by praying five times a day we can counter our sins, what a delusion!
    I don't want to discuss Sharia laws here but woyuld certainly tell my honest opinion about those in some proper discussion, where sanity reigns. 
    I notice that many friend on this forum are too jumpy about their faith, why is that so, are you guys insecure about your faith?
    Why attack others. who come with deviating views?
    Are we not asked not to be judgemental?
    Only God knows the secrets of heart and can tell about the intentions involved and shall judge accordingly.
    SS, If you wish to have a dialogue on some matter I remain open but please, please no spam, just positive and constructive argumentation and even that with offering due respect to your counterpart. That's the best way of communicating with others.
    God bless you!  

    Posted 1 year ago on 26 Sep 2010 11:00 #
  24. toamin
    member

    truthlover,


    caliphate doesn't mean that there would a super human with super genius and with super powers would come and do all perfectly.

    can i say the same about a president or a prime minister? i mean when we take democratic governance model we focus on processes and ideas but when we talk about caliphate our needle gets stuck at finding a super human?

    is caliphate about a super human with long white beard and a stick in hand, angry mad man, intolerant bla bla?

    it not about different office names, or different titles, that shows shallow thinking in terms of comparing different cultures/civilizations.

    if a rat has four legs and a tail does that mean it is same as a lion who also posses four legs and a tail??

    Posted 1 year ago on 26 Sep 2010 12:15 #
  25. gv
    Member

    My dear friend Salam,

    Hope you are keeping well.

    Aren't you tired of the same circular arguments about conceptual forms of government?

    I think TL has a point and if we use modern/western terms put historical events into modern context that does not take away from the essence of the concept no?

    PM/President/Khalifa etc its all semantics at the end of the day. And as TL points out divine laws in mortal hands can still be mis used and mis interpreted as i think you and i have discussed on many an occasion in the past?

    Posted 1 year ago on 26 Sep 2010 12:36 #
  26. shimatoree
    Member

    TL

             quote from you

    "  where sanity reigns. "

           When people believe in their own whims and fanciful interpretation of events and are unwilling even to look at reality.

           Sanity is gone out of the window.

    Posted 1 year ago on 26 Sep 2010 12:43 #
  27. toamin
    member

    hey gv,


    where have you been, long time no see

    yes, same old same as you can see.

    sure, no disagreement that divine laws can be mis-used or mis-interpreted, no one can claim to be perfect.

    but i think that we have two distinct systems with difference at basic core values and the platform that emanates from it, that is all i am trying to realize here.

    Posted 1 year ago on 26 Sep 2010 12:43 #
  28. shimatoree
    Member

    So far the proponents of Caliphate have given very few details about it including Hizbe Tehreer.

    So let me ask a few very simple questions if that is allowed-

    1. How will you select or decide who is the caliph going to be.

    2. What part of the Islamic World is he going to come from.

    3. How is he going to legislate . I know that God has already in place the laws that he might need.

    4. How is going to administer the Ummah? Is he going to have a cabinet and where is his ministers going to come from.

    5. Is he going to put in place an intelligence gathering system of spies etc.

    6.How is he going to deal with the Nuclear weapons of Pakistan and where will they be kept.

    7. Lots of other logistical question but later.

    Posted 1 year ago on 26 Sep 2010 12:52 #
  29. toamin
    member

    1. we can see different selection criteria from sahab RA life, but the action that transfers the authority from people to the ruler is 'bayah', which is a contract between the two parties based on agreement.  Any time ruler violates the agreement, he is no more ruler, there are then further details of this process.


    2. Any muslim who is sane, capable, just, competent, and mature can be a candidate for this position, there are then further details on definition of each condition.

    3. Right, legislation is already there, question is how wold it be implemented, how would he adopt an opinion, what is status of that opinion for muslims in terms of law, how can that opinion be challenged. Adoption of an opinion brings unity in a society, there are further details to issue of adoption.

    4. Caliph can delegate governors, assistants for an area or subject matter.

    5. This leads us to debate of spying, if it is allowed or forbidden in Islam.  We have examples from the life of Prophet Muhammad pbuh on how he gathered information.

    6. Don't know what is the meaning of question.

    7. Lots of details but later.

    Posted 1 year ago on 26 Sep 2010 13:16 #
  30. gv
    Member

    @Salam

    "but i think that we have two distinct systems with difference at basic core values and the platform that emanates from it,"

    Please elaborate?

    Posted 1 year ago on 26 Sep 2010 14:27 #
  31. Truthlover
    Member

    @Salam,
    Suppose Pakistan is the centre of an Islamic state, so according to you any muslim around the world could be a candidate for caiphhood?
    What would be the process to elect a leader for more than one billion muslims?
    Would there be a caliph for each sect or by the stroke of magic all differences shall disappear and an Arab and Iranian would just become brothers in faith? Be realistic Salam, I'm also a dreamer but not that naive to believe in dreams.

    Posted 1 year ago on 26 Sep 2010 14:56 #
  32. shafiq12
    member

      Truthlover,

    I think u are happy in this corrupt system and it is also true that u are not honest with urself. Ok u want to live as a slave life, its good for u, but we don't want this slavery imposed on us by Western. May be u are happy but look at the people who are dying with hunger and had died in Flood and other disasters.  The Kuffar are using divide policey to kill muslim and those people who are working for a system, u are opposing them and making fun of them, Good for u may be u will see soon.

     اس ميں کيا شک ہے کہ محکم ہے يہ ابليسي نظام
    پختہ تر اس سے ہوئے خوئے غلامي ميں عوام
    ہے ازل سے ان غريبوں کے مقدر ميں سجود
    ان کي فطرت کا تقاضا ہے نماز بے قيام
    آرزو اول تو پيدا ہو نہيں سکتي کہيں
    ہو کہيں پيدا تو مر جاتي ہے يا رہتي ہے خام

    Posted 1 year ago on 26 Sep 2010 17:44 #
  33. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    Super Soldier

    Every system has some beneficiaries. They don't want change in that system as that system is beneficial for them. The Kuffars of Mecca who opposed Islam had deep rooted interests in that wild system, so waged wars against the Muslims. 

    Truthlover probably wants to indicate that those elements will not let changes happen so easily.

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Sep 2010 6:38 #
  34. toamin
    member

    truthlover,


    first, let me clarify to you that i am no dreamer, i consider myself a practical and propose a solution that emanates from my ideology.

    i am talking about solution and want to solve problems of not only muslims but also of non-muslims.

    as i mentioned before, it is not about finding a personality that is a super human with extra ordinary qualities, apparently some people confuse caliph with finding some extra ordinary super human which is a wrong assumption.

    modern techniques/methods/processes could be used for selection/election of a person who fulfills basic set of conditions.

    every american who is born in USA can become american president, but i don't see you asking how to select a president from 300 million population? why? because you can see a practice so you know, but here in case of caliph you can not see because it isn't in practice so you can't visualize.

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Sep 2010 6:56 #
  35. toamin
    member

    gv,


    there is difference at fundamental level, the code of Islam's operating system is not compatible with Capitalist operating system.

    while one may get confused at comparison of 'user interfaces', it is important to look at core engine upon which the whole system is built.


    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Sep 2010 7:01 #
  36. shafiq12
    member

    Look My Brother Hussain Farooqi

    There is only one system which is divine given by Lord Allah Almighty through his Great Messenger.

    U said=

    Every system has some beneficiaries


    If u take example  communism, it has benefits, when the communism come into existence an English writer wrote a Book "End of Civilization" mean that this is final system. But few decase later that discover fault in it.
    All other system are man made, there is only one system which is cure All the disease of the World, that system is  purely based on teaching of Quran and Sunnat of Rasool. It is that system for which the world is looking for but Alas we with so many country we can't implement the Deen of Allah
     
     
    اگر مجھ کو خطر کوئي تو اس امت سے ہے
    جس کي خاکستر ميں ہے اب تک شرار آرزو
    خال خال اس قوم ميں اب تک نظر آتے ہيں وہ
    کرتے ہيں اشک سحر گاہي سے جو ظالم وضو
    جانتا ہے، جس پہ روشن باطن ايام ہے
    مزدکيت فتنہ فردا نہيں، اسلام ہے!

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Sep 2010 7:06 #
  37. Abdul Rahman
    Member

    TL,

    Let us look at the example from Islamic history. Although not a Khalifa but he  spearheaded the Jihad that led to liberation of Bait Al Maqdis and Palestine from the clutches of European crusaders. Please note that this was the first  time after Prophet SAS that Kuffar managed to set foothold in heart of the Ummah and it lasted 70 years. And now the Zionist pigs are occupying it since 1948.

    Was he a Palestinain, No
    Was he an Arab, No
    Was he a Muslim, Yes

    These man made boundaries that dot the Muslim countries landscape is artificailly created by colonialists and we are almost "worshipping" those wataniyat based enclaves of the Ummah. The selection of a Khailfa is very simple and not a dajjali democraric process or a dictatorial assumption of power. The most pious and upright with excellent track record in every domain of life is nominated and the person reluctantly comes forward to auume the huge responsibilty. That was the modus operandi of Khulafa Rashedeen.

    Let us not forget that Prophet SAS said ina "revolutionary" authentic Hadith that:   "even if a dwarf bald Abyssynian slave is selected you have to obey him". By this historic statement prophet SAS once for all crushed all aspirations based on lineage, ethnicity and race. However the inability  of Muslim Ummah to adhere to that Hadith does not mean that we have to abandon the Divinely inspired selection criteria. As a matter of fact it will be lot easier to implement that process with the advent of information super highway.

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Sep 2010 7:23 #
  38. Truthlover
    Member

    @Abdul Rehman,

    Don't misunderstand me, I'm not against a sytem that can be adopted as an alternative to present corrupt and despicable one given by the western world. I know the change is inevitable as the entire system is rotten and at the verge of collapse. The only thing I'm not convinced is that we are in a position to replace it and that for reason known to us all. Our morals are at their lowest levels, our beliefs are contaminated by materialism, our values have long disappeared from our lives and all that still occuppies our thoughts and hearts are vain dreams of conquest. I'm convinced that no caliph in the world can change a bit, if he is to work with present incompetent and degenerated masses. Where are you going to find that great soul, who can accomplish Herculian tasks?
    How many Salah ud Din Ayubi or Sultan Mohammad Fateh can you name that could change the course of history?
    Be realistic, the present world is at the verge of getting its so called NWO and there is nothing we can do to stop it, do you know why? It's because the enemy has already conquered you from within, placing traitors on each important position in both military and political offices. Name one Islamic country that still stands independent and can claim to have sovergeinity of her own. Iran is an exception but I fear that it won't be long before the will of that nation too shall be tested.
    Your only hope is Imam and not some caliph. I'm certain that we live in End times and he shall come and fight the Evil but muslims have to suffer more before the promised man can step forward and combat the evil forces. May Allah lead him to victory when he comes and start his struggle against all odds.

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Sep 2010 10:50 #
  39. gv
    Member

    @salam

    If you humour me for a bit and put aside your perception of capitalism as it is practised today. Could you provide me with a text book definition of Capitalism. (i.e. what is Capitalist theory?) and tell me how that is had differed from economic practice in the Islamic world throughout history.

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Sep 2010 12:52 #
  40. gv
    Member

    "gv sahib

    sorry, i missed that, i had to go back and revisit the thread to understand your above post.

     

    What is capitalist theory or model? All that basic 101 stuff that unlimited wants, scarce resources, supply & demand curve, etc

     

    Secularism is the basic creed from which emanates capitalist economic system and democratic political system.  since economic system is dominant module hence it is referred as capitalism... whole package.

     

    Islam has its own way of viewing the basic problem and then addressing it. View points, application and details are important. "

    @salam I respectfully disagree.

    Capitalism at its very simplest encourages the use of profit seeking private markets to determine the trading of goods and services in a society. This basic premise being that if someone wishes to buy/sell a good or service the price for that good/service is in most cases best determined by 'free' market forces.

    This freedom is/ or should be limited to the price setting ability of the market players as any outside (read state) inteference leads to inefficiencient trades.

    Islam is not an ascetic religion. Islam does not have an aversion to 'free' private trade and 'free' private markets. The prophet himself was a trader.

    What Islam promotes is an equitable and fair  economic system which promotes wealth generation in a society but not at the detriment of the poor/weak members of society. Simply enforcing the age old adage that with wealth comes responsiblity. If a community loses sight of this very simple premise its foundations weaken and it crumbles.

    Now how is that different from a social welfare state in the modern context?

    (please remember we are talking in theory not in practice)

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Sep 2010 17:44 #
  41. Revivalist
    member

    <FONT face=Calibri>TL,

    " I'm convinced that no caliph in the world can change a bit, if he is to work with present incompetent and degenerated masses" Dear, this is a misconception. The masses you are calling incompetent and degenerated are eager to live by Islam and live a productive life? Why the same incompetent people, when they go to any western countries, do very well and behave well, because there is a system in Place. For example, why do all Pakistani people praise the motorway police, because we want discipline and good management of our affairs. </FONT>

    <FONT face=Calibri>Hence if you refer to Quran you would see Allah (swt) saying to the Muslims " You are the best Ummah" which means that there is khair in this Ummah till the day of judgment, all we need to do is to change the corrupt system along the corrupt and dishonest rulers and replace it with an Islamic khilafah.</FONT>

     

    Posted 1 year ago on 28 Sep 2010 7:46 #
  42. Truthlover
    Member

    Revivalist,
    You want to change the system, then find an honest leader, who has a backing of few hundred thousand and is ready to kill at least tens of thousand of guilty ones- 

    Posted 1 year ago on 28 Sep 2010 8:14 #
  43. Revivalist
    member

    <FONT face=Calibri>TL,
    We have an honest leader who is leading HT in more then 40 countries of the world. But again I would repeat, we must not rely on personalities alone, we have enough people who could lead the Ummah, and unfortunately they are not visible because of the corrupt system that is in place in Muslim countries. People who you see more visible are Democrats and those playing within the rules set out by western capitalists. HT want to change the map and direction of the world and Alhamdulillah it has enough people to do it very soon Insha’Allah. Besides, as I said Muslims are called as “Best Ummah”  so as I whole we have khair in us.</FONT>

    Posted 1 year ago on 28 Sep 2010 8:46 #
  44. Truthlover
    Member

    Who's this HT?

    Posted 1 year ago on 28 Sep 2010 8:51 #
  45. Revivalist
    member

    http://www.khilafah.com; http://www.hizb.org.uk; http://www.khilafat.dk Please go through these websites to have good detailed understanding of who HT is?

    Posted 1 year ago on 28 Sep 2010 9:07 #
  46. Truthlover
    Member

    Revivalist!

    Spare me, pLlllllllllllleeeeeaaaaaaaassssssse.
    Do I have to read all this trash to know the answer of a simple question that who's this HT?

    Posted 1 year ago on 28 Sep 2010 9:16 #
  47. Revivalist
    member

    <FONT face=Calibri>TL,

    I thought you are an intelligent person who know the use of internet and finding about something on it. I referred you to those websites because I thought you really are interested in knowing about HT but your childish response showed that you are not sincere in knowing.

    However let me tell you about HT "Hizb ut-Tahrir is a political party whose ideology is Islam, so politics is its work and Islam is its ideology. It works within the Ummah and together with her, so that she adopts Islam as her cause and is led to restore the Khilafah and the ruling by what Allah (swt) revealed. Hizb ut-Tahrir is a political group and not a priestly one. Nor is it an academic, educational or a charity group. The Islamic thought is the soul of its body, its core and the secret of its life.

    </FONT><FONT face=Calibri>http://www.hizb-australia.org/hizbut-tahrir/about-hizb-ut-tahrir</FONT>

    Posted 1 year ago on 28 Sep 2010 9:40 #
  48. shafiq12
    member

    Revivalist

    I thought you are an intelligent person who know the use of internet and finding about something on it.

    A bad thought! Indeed!.

    Posted 1 year ago on 28 Sep 2010 9:44 #
  49. Revivalist
    member

    SS,

    wazahat karain please!!!

    Posted 1 year ago on 28 Sep 2010 9:49 #
  50. Truthlover
    Member

    Revivalist,

    I am certainly less concerned with your estimation of me. You consider my response as childish and less intelligent is equally irrelevent. Yes, one can go through all kinds of hardships in order to get an answer to one's questions but I don't have time to search for some abbreviations. I'm not interested in any political party or its manifesto, so it would have been kind of you if you had told me this information earlier.
    I shall not bore you by telling my opinion about these so called universal brotherhood movements, I simply don't buy those. I'm a down to earth person. who is well aware of the ground realities.
    Good luck to you and your dream to get a caliph!

    Posted 1 year ago on 28 Sep 2010 10:10 #

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