shafiq12
member
Revivalist
Please see, I don't need to give explanation!
I am certainly less concerned with your estimation of me. You consider my response as childish and less intelligent is equally irrelevent. Yes, one can go through all kinds of hardships in order to get an answer to one's questions but I don't have time to search for some abbreviations. I'm not interested in any political party or its manifesto, so it would have been kind of you if you had told me this information earlier.
Revivalist
member
<FONT face=Calibri>TL,
Now when u guys fail to negate the concept of khilafah and it being obligatory in Islam, you have now coined a new Istilah 'Dream', it’s indeed very unfair!!!</FONT>
Revivalist
member
SS,
got it NOW :)
Truthlover
Member
Revivalist,
It's man, who is Khalifa tul Arad and not some man with a whip in his hand.
I don't agree with your interpretation that the form of rulership is mandatory in Islam, it's just a title that could be replaced by any other name. Whta is important, is the chracteristics of this office and not the name.
Why do you believe we are unfair or teasing you?
I agree with your term Ummah but that is a spiritual brotherhood and can't be a physical reality as it never had been.
The divisions on basis of nationalities, ethnic diversities, provincialism and split on basis of sectarianism and other many. many factors shall not disappear in days to come.
There is no equality among muslims, if you don't believe me then spend few years of your life in some muslim country and learn the truth.
Which Ummah are we talking about? When did Muslims of any part of the world ever defended the freedoms and rights of other muslims? How many Islamic countries support Kashmiri struggle?
Forgetabout corrupt muslim governments, tell me about muslim community of any country that react to any Muslim tragedy or wrong doing? I mean give me some examples of even a moral support.
A concept that is utopian, unpractical and lacks historical perspective, what shall we call it except a vain dream!
toamin
member
it is not just the title, it is more of core value system & view point that differentiates the two ideologies.
Truthlover
Member
@ Salam,
Which two ideologies do you refer to, you certainly mean our ideology vs all the others. They all have principles and requirements for holding of an office, so how differs a caliph from others?
If we share the same values that doesn't make us one nation, there are other factors that play important role. Spiritual brotherhood is more relevent to our common spiritual growth than anything else, all communists of the world also believe in this brotherhood, can they form a universal Empire based on this ideology?
I never claim that some are more equal than the others but in reality they bahve in this way. Can you imagine that an Arab treating some guestworker from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh or some African country in equal manner or giving them even a human dignity? You don't have to answer this rhetoric question.
Your suggestion is interesting, so please enrich me by producing few examples from Islamic history that may show that competent and Godfearing Caliphs ever existed in this world. Even examples of the muslim rulers, who reacted to miseries of muslims that didn't fall under his jurisdiction, I would appreciate.
If you read my comment you'll see that I have taken this difference in account but I don't agree that the muslims of the world support Kashmiris or Palestinian cause, they are simply self occuppied or are dummies. Did you ever wittness any demonstration in any muslim country for the rights of their suppressed brothers?
No, we are not biased against anyone but remain sceptics and realists, sorry but we can't help that, we have enough of lies and won't buy another dream till we are convinced that it really is a viable solution.
toamin
member
look truth lover,
Truthlover
Member
Salam,
Why do you talk so patronisingly and foolishly at the same time, who told you I am unable to distinguish between Arab and Gulf states but what use it is to talk about these differences, when you are not even ready to take away these minor issues like these. Arab is a racially and linguistically considered to be same kind of people, so my definition includes all Arabic speaking people from Arabian peninsula to Northafrica are the same group of people but ofcourse you prefer even to seperate these countries and regions apart, isn't it paradoxical?
Believe me my depth of understanding and grasp of reality is enough deep, I'm a born diver.
It's obvious that we have different experiences of muslims.
A suppressed and poor Arab is no better than a rcih one, as he will love to kick to his underdog, a poor guest worker.
Last part of your argument I'll leave unanswered because I want to avoid some schism with people who get sentimental even in argumentation!
shimatoree
Member
TL
Quote " by producing few examples from Islamic history that may show that competent and Godfearing Caliphs ever existed in this world. orexamples of the muslim rulers, who reacted to miseries of muslims that didn't fall under his jurisdiction,".
that the muslims of the world support Kashmiris or Palestinian cause, they are simply occuppied .
Did you ever wittness any demonstration in any muslim country for the rights of their suppressed brothers? " End of quote.
I think that is the crux of your logic and it needs to needs to be tackled by someone.
toamin
member
again truth lover, you put all arabs in one general set and then make a generalized statement while the ground reality doesn't reflect that.
Truthlover
Member
Salam.
I have no claims of knowing Arabs, though I have been to Egypt, Morroco, Tunis and many other Arab countries.
A solidarity among suppressed people of different countries is but natural when coditions are equally miserable. God forbid, I never said that these Arabs are bad people, all I wanted to stress was the truth that they are natural people and give a .... if you are a muslim or a kafir. The problem is rather with us who believe them to be our cousins.
toamin
member
truthlover,
Truthlover
Member
Yes they are very friendly people and their cities remind the old cities of Pakistan, a cleaner version. I've been there several times and wouldn't mind to visit it again.
toamin
member
well, thank you.
Revivalist
member
<FONT face=Calibri>TL,
why don’t you refer to the surveys conducted by Worldpublicopnion.com and so many other organizations with regards to what Muslims (Arab & none Arab) want? You would be amaze to see that overwhelming majority of Muslims are calling for Islam and Unification under Islamic rule.
The issues you are referring to are very insignificant and were put under feet when our beloved prophet (saw) came to this world. We are called as MUSLIMS and nothing else, whosoever is dividing Muslims based on anything is mistaken and Muslims who believes in any dividing thought is Haram, it is as simple as this!</FONT>
ammarisb
Member
Without any doubts democracy is a formidable source to fight extremism and this can be seen in the case of Pakistan as after restoration of democracy the war against terror was well-planned and the representatives of public were taken into confidence. Also it the war lacked the legitimacy of public support which is vital for keep the moral of soldiers high. Extremism cannot foster in democracy as democracy provides the every stakeholder the opportunity to present their view in front of public without resorting to violent method.
Revivalist
member
@Ammarisb,
Can you please tell us what has really changed with regards to policy against 'war of terror'? And what account are you talking about, it was the same Army who was fighting this war under Bussharraf's command and now the same army is fighting United Snakes war of terror under Kiyani's command. I see no change whatsoever rather things have gone from wrong to worst. In fact, proposing demon-crazy as solution is like treating the patient with the virus, because it is the root casue of all the evils pakistan is suffering from. Solution is uproot this evil thought and readically replace it with the Islamic ruling system (caliphate) which will truly solve our problems.
rashidsaleem
Member
One more solider from the land of Taliban, haven’t we already tried this? Haven’t we already seen what barbarism was unleashed in Swat when we tried this? Religion has just become a tool that is being continuously exploited. Democracy is our only way to redemption. No matter how bad but it would still be the voice of people.
Revivalist
member
@RS,
Could you please elaborate what exactly have we tried? And how Elitocracy is our only way of redemption?
sasherwani
Members
haan ji Pakistan issi liyay to banaaya gaya tha..taakay poori muslim ummah ki problems ki thaykaydaari laylay.. chaahay woh shia ho ya sunni ya barailwi.. chaahay woh palestinians hon ya iranians ya lebanese ya bosnian. Woh alag baat hay kay Pakistan ki apni haysiyat aath aanay ki naheen haay aaj ki dunya may.
and yes khilafat.. waah bhi waah.. we couldnt invent even a suzuki wiper by ourselves and we wanna focus on reviving a 1000 yr old system that didnt even work during its original time.
Revivalist
member
SS,
After a long break I was expecting some sensible comment from you, lakin phir mayos hona para :)
sasherwani
Members
Why do you mullas think that I care about what you think of me? Seriously, get over it.. your expectations and hopes have no value to me. You ppl live in a dreamworld and any dose of sensibility or reality upsets you. Thats why you people are never able to respond and turn to irrelevant chitchats.
toamin
member
it is the value that brings you here, it is the value that made you spend time and energy here, get out of denial and broaden up your horizon a little :)
Revivalist
member
@SS,
Please read your post again and tell me which part of your post deserves response? A system that is being praised even by those you admire, you are negating them as well. The system you are advocating is much older then khilafah, FYI, khilafah is the most modern system of the world and will remain applicable till the Day of Judgment.
sasherwani
Members
@ Revivalist,
you shouldve ended your statement with "aur phir shehzada aur shehzadi hansi khushi rehnay lagay"
Revivalist
member
SS,
Thanks for the addition, 'hansi or khushi' ye lafz sunay ko to kan taras gaye they. Demon-crazy/capitalism mai to qatlo gharat gari, raiastaee dahshat gardi, bhuk, Aflas waghaira ke ilawa kuch sunai nahi deta. Bila shuba Islam mai he log sukoon se rah saktay hai.
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