NRO, another shining Black spot on the forehead of Democracy!!!

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NRO, another shining Black spot on the forehead of Democracy!!!

(36 posts)

Revivalist
member

Dear all,

BY simple MAJORITY the parliament can pass a resolution that could validate NRO, which means that whatever crimes the “ELITE class” did in the future they are all forgiven not by the people of Pakistan but by themselves. Isn’t it a JOKE? Now you see what is the problem in Demon-crazy? By having simple majority one can make black white and white black and as per Mr. Qamruz zama Kaira, let the people decide after 5 years through their votes weather NRO passed by the parliament is a good decision or bed!

Regards

Posted 2 years ago on 19 Oct 2009 6:19 #
Beenai
Moderator

NRO has made the Govt most unpopular ever.
its definitely a negative thing .
and Govt has badly failed to defend its stand over it.
no2..its a wrong tradition has been introduced by Mush the dictator ,to legalized and formalized a cover or a deal between corrupt leaders and army dictator.

Posted 2 years ago on 19 Oct 2009 6:39 #
amin1924
member

NRO was a secret agreement brokered by US & UK through John Negroponte and Mark Lyle Grant between Musharaf and Benazir Bhutto.

After 2-3 years of negotiations the agreement was finalized between the parties. When every point was settled, elections were staged to dress up secret agreement as elected govt of Pakistan.

Posted 2 years ago on 19 Oct 2009 6:47 #
shahzad1924
member

the point is that its not just a "negative thing" or "bad tradition". it is a proof of the fallacy in the democratic form of governance.

this is the reason why democracy can never "deliver" to the masses. it has always supported the ruling elite class on the expense of the masses.

Posted 2 years ago on 19 Oct 2009 6:56 #
Beenai
Moderator

it is like issuance of a license for corruption.

Posted 2 years ago on 19 Oct 2009 7:18 #
Revivalist
member

You are right shahzad, how can parliamentarians through simple MAJORITY legalize crimes committed by the people who are in ruling now!!!! IF that is the case why not to bring another bill of NRO for the rest of the criminals that are behind the bars, for relatively small crimes, so that to pass it and forgive them all as well. What is the role of judiciary if parliament has to decide the fate of criminals!!!! All this shows clearly that democracy is not at all the way forward as it has inherit fraudy nature that can never be taken away from it. Besides, it contradicts the vary foundation of our Aqeedah which makes justice as pillar of the system and society irrespective of the status of the criminal.

Posted 2 years ago on 19 Oct 2009 7:24 #
Revivalist
member

Beenai, a license as well as the parliament is going to set precedence for the generations to come, that by such bills they can get away with all sorts of crimes...

Posted 2 years ago on 19 Oct 2009 7:25 #
Beenai
Moderator

they use to get away with it ,in the past too.
but now ,its being legalized & patronized by the parliament.

Posted 2 years ago on 19 Oct 2009 8:06 #
Revivalist
member

Thats right... IF its possible then anything is possible in the parliment of the secular democratic pakistan...

Posted 2 years ago on 19 Oct 2009 8:36 #
Beenai
Moderator

its not secular neither islamic .
its everywhere and no where .
thats the highlight of our parliament.

Posted 2 years ago on 19 Oct 2009 9:11 #
Revivalist
member

:) agree!!!

Posted 2 years ago on 19 Oct 2009 9:56 #
iamsowise
Commenter

I'm wonder how will US pay back after doing all these ugly things against Pakistani people.

Posted 2 years ago on 19 Oct 2009 18:42 #
Revivalist
member

iamsowise,

Dear the US is not going to pay back anything, as whatever US is doing has the approval of the corrupt elite class ruling Pakistan. I wonder what will these traitor rulers say in front of Allah (swt) on the Day of Judgment!!!! Each one of them will have a big flag in their hand indicating their treachery….

Posted 2 years ago on 20 Oct 2009 7:27 #
semirza
Moderator

Merged from:
http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/nro-parliament-indemnity

NRO - Parliament Indemnity(8 posts)
mangotango
Member
Can anyone help me understand why beneficiaries of NRO are allowed to vote on NRO?

zia m
Member
Parliament being the legislative body should have the right to pass laws.They have the power to amend the constitution.
However i don't think a simple majority in the parliament should be able to indemnify NRO,2/3rd majority should be required.

Beenai
Moderator
@mangotango,
because its Pakistan.
anything can be expected .
u can expect this shameful ordinance to become a law soon, with the help of mushroom growth of lotas .
i wont be surprised ...if it got approved from the dummy parliament.

Revivalist
member
Zia m,

"Parliament being the legislative body should have the right to pass laws" So it means if 2/3rd of the people agree on a crime that could become the law, right???

pkimage
Member
parliament is the only authority which can make this ordinance an act. so if the parliament passses this law no body can stop that. by the way this parliament is selected by people of pakistan and it represents our mentalitlity. people select always these corrupt people because our people are also corrupt. when our people do wrong things then they need these people to help them. by the way see in ur own area , is not the 90 percent of people are involved in frauds,corruption,, we have problems at micro level.... i dont think so our nation can change their mind set... it will take very time ... and only solution is education... with a non educated nation we can only produce things like nro

zia m
Member
Pakimage
unfortunate but very true.

Revivalist
The SC still have the right to challenge any act or law that is against the constitution.

mangotango
Member
majority can pass any legislation they want to but my question was if someone have interest in certain legislation, then such members should disclose their interest and do not participate in voting. This is common practice in corporate world where directors are required to disclose their interest officially and are barred from taking part in the vote. There must be something in parliamentary bye laws

Posted 2 years ago on 20 Oct 2009 18:04 #
expakistani
Member

shining Black spot on our elite class choors class. in proper
Democratic country non of them would ever elected to parliament of any kind

Posted 2 years ago on 20 Oct 2009 18:32 #
shriq
Member

mangotango,

You have raised a good and serious point! Bravo!

Posted 2 years ago on 20 Oct 2009 19:22 #
Anwer Kamal
Member

NRO is a black spot on face of N$.
He did this dirty work to victimise opposition.
Now again he is talking against NRO
He and his man Saif ur Rehman ( Famous for his weeping when N$ left him behind bars and ran away after agreement with Mush) openly showed his sorrow for his dirty work and Saif ur Rehman tendered his 'Maafi Namah'
N$ also signed charter of democracy with this NRO men and came back home with their help.Means help of NRO.

Posted 2 years ago on 20 Oct 2009 23:09 #
javedsheikh
Members

I feel Pakistan and Pakistanis should adopt a policy of
"Don't Tell, Don't Ask".

With the exception of few, all of the rulers, politicians, members of Judiciary, Civil Service, Military Generals, Capitalists, Land Lords and even the Shopkeepers don't carry a clean slate.

Now is the time to take a fresh start with a pledge to make Pakistan a better living place for the future generations.

Posted 2 years ago on 21 Oct 2009 0:18 #
msohail83
Member

Yousruf Raza Gilani and Javed Hashmi both went to the court to clear themselves. They both served jail time under Musharraf. If they can go to court, why not other NRO benefiaries?

Posted 2 years ago on 21 Oct 2009 0:33 #
AHR
Member

Does it not baffle the mind, where Pakistani's come out in numbers on the streets, protesting the KLB (which is money coming into the system) but yet are absolutely silence when the NRO is tabled in the National Assembly? (which is money going out of the system) I have been trying to google the exact amount of money that was forgiven under the NRO but am yet unable to find it. I am quite content that the overall amount is great than the annual 1.5bn. And for America bashers, please do not think I am saying I agree with the KLB, I am just questioning your timing of protests! How many Pakistani citizens or journalists for that matter have pleaded the parliament to veto the NRO? But yet nearly all journalists and media personnel disagreed with the KLB!

Posted 2 years ago on 21 Oct 2009 0:47 #
Beenai
Moderator

@Sheikh sahib,
going for a fresh start does not mean necessarily a clean slat of all crimes ...as all our politicians are the national looters and they have stolen all the money ,we got in the shape of international loans ,on annoying and humiliating terms ...they have eaten up all the national exchequer ...
and we can NOT let them go away like that .
NRO is a WRONG tradition to make a looter get away with his crime ...
if a shopkeeper charges us more than the market .
we STOP buying things from that particular shop.
than why keep selecting the same culprits again and again ?
they should be punished ,trailed and REJECTED by ppl .

Posted 2 years ago on 21 Oct 2009 4:48 #
Revivalist
member

JS and all,

"...make Pakistan a better living place for the future generations". How could this be possible in a system where crimes are getting legal status? In a system where if the majority of the criminals sitting in the parliament agree that policemen is a terrorist because he is causing problems for the thief, becomes the law, what good can you expect from that. I hope you know, few days ago a peaceful seminar war raided in Islamabad and more then 30 members/supporters of Hizb-ut-tahrir were arrested only because they disagree with the government and the current system. The guys arrested includes scientists, can you imagine this????

Nuclear scientist among held Hizbut Tahrir activists
Daily Times Monitor
LAHORE: The recently arrested Hizbut Tahrir activists from Islamabad include a nuclear scientist, a private TV channel reported on Monday.

According to the channel, the arrested men include the scientist, a USAID official and an environmental scientist. The activists who are being interrogated by the Islamabad police include: Rizwan Aleem, a nuclear scientist and currently a PhD student at the Ghulam Ishaq Khan Institute of Engineering Sciences and Technology; Abid Mehmood, an officer of a United States Agency for International Development; and Aman Hamza, an environmental scientist. Sources say the Hizbut Tahrir activists were likely to be handed over to intelligence agencies for further interrogation. Nearly, all the 32 arrested activists belonged to educated families, the channel reported.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2009%5C10%5C20%5Cstory_20-10-2009_pg7_12

Regards

Posted 2 years ago on 21 Oct 2009 6:33 #
Anwer Kamal
Member

NRO and K L bill are actually no issue but both are used to down the PPP government.

Posted 2 years ago on 22 Oct 2009 0:17 #
javedsheikh
Members

A students of Political Science well understands that how opposition parties in a democratic system orchestrate a situation to gain public support and to distract the sitting government.
The republican Party of America succeeded to block the progress on Health Reforms where President Bill Clinton was pushed to Monica Lewinsky scandal.
KL Bill, NRO, Sugar and Atta issues are being exploited in Pakistan with the same motives.
It is now hard to win the game with Emotional card where information technology is dominating universally.
There are certain patients who refuse to get the shot and medication due to lack of knowledge about what they need to save the life.

Posted 2 years ago on 22 Oct 2009 2:10 #
Beenai
Moderator

@Anwer Kamal
@Sheikh sahib,
if NRO and KL bill and sugar and atta crisis are Non issues .
than what are the issues ?

if a political leader has stolen all the national exchequer and has made palaces and business empires and swiss accounts ...
he should NOT be given a clean slat but should face a trail .

do u ppl know the exact reason ,why PPP GOVT has been failed to get support of the public in any single issue ?

just because it has a very bad track record of looting ,plundering ,money laundering and getting a deal with a dictator ,which was resulted in NRO ....

its bad track record is making every effort of the PPP govt ,null and void ....
no matter how sincerely Govt is taking the steps .
its past baggage is not letting it go ahead any further .

Posted 2 years ago on 22 Oct 2009 5:14 #
Revivalist
member

shaikh sahab,

“A students of Political Science well understands that how opposition parties in a democratic system orchestrate a situation to gain public support and to distract the sitting government.” Dear sheikh sahib, is it a complement or annoyance from the democratic system???

I agree with beenai, if a government fails to provide Cheni and atta to its citizens let alone security etc, it has not right to rule. Saying that media and opposition makes issues out of it is insult to the people of Pakistan.

Posted 2 years ago on 22 Oct 2009 7:55 #
javedsheikh
Members

1. The corruption Issues, how real that might be, has been rejected by a substantial majority of the voters during the most recent elections, (as the nation pardoned Mr. Abdul Qadeer Khan honoring his previous services to Pakistan.)

2. The opposition parties have five years to make a case against the existing government and educated the people to make better decision next time.

3. I don't know if there is any rule of the game to call back a player before he is declared out by the Umpire?

4. Personally I believe in the policy of 'Survival of the fittest'.

5. The Real Will of the people and the sum total of General common Sense are the best Judges to decide about the status of the Fittest.
(A nation who elected and selected the fittest in 1946, has potentials to do the same, during a fair situation.)

6. Coming to the debate about NRO, it is mere waste of time and energy. If NRO Isue is so important then demand should be to start the process from 1947 and to get very alarming statistics appear at the screen.

7. The frequent changes on Democratic Governments before the Constitutional tenure, is a Crime and High Treason in itself.

Posted 2 years ago on 22 Oct 2009 11:18 #
Beenai
Moderator

@Sheikh sahib,
with all respect ...i strongly disagree with u ...
specially about equating Zardari with AQ Khan .
AQ Khan is a respectable man for Pakistanis ,who has done a great service of making the nation a neuclear nation.
as compare to Zardari ,who has never done anything of that caliber and has been identified as husband of BB,Mr 10 % ,kick backs and commission maker...blah blah blah.

so there is no comparison at all....

no2 ...Mr Zardari and Co and for that matter any politician including Nawaz Sharif can NOT be given a clean slat ,just to flourish democracy ...specially ,when they r not at all interested in so.
what they have done for the sake of democracy????/

Nawaz striked a deal and gone to Suadia .
Zardari and co striked a deal with dictator and get a clean slat as NRO .

do u consider these deals ,a service to the democracy?

Posted 2 years ago on 22 Oct 2009 12:57 #
javedsheikh
Members

@ beena,
I have acknowledged that all the persons you mentioned at your post are 'corrupt', and a bandwagon mentality is consistently repeating the same slogans.

MY POINT was that the issue should be put in the cold storage where a majority of voters overruled the credibility of the charges of 'corruption.

I failed to understand the logic to cover up the corruption of Mr. A.Q Khan. (What he admitted in front of TV camera.)
I respect his services for Pakistan. Did he surrender a portion of the money, he collected from Korea, Iran and other countries? Do you know how much wealth and property he owns? (Look at the Irony of situation that the person who managed and helped him to emerge as a National Hero was hanged by the same nation)
Double standards would damage the intentions to uphold the credibility of Legal System. That's why I suggested to drag everyone in the court since 1947 if they honestly want the real justice.
Otherwise playing with the emotions and sentiments of the people like a sudo socialist, is fake and fraud.

Posted 2 years ago on 22 Oct 2009 13:27 #
Beenai
Moderator

@Sheikh sahib,
in my view ,culprits should be punished ...who ever they are ...otherwise ,the culture of corruption would flourish further more .

we have to take a new start from some where ...

it should be an end to it .

Posted 2 years ago on 22 Oct 2009 13:55 #
Anwer Kamal
Member

Aagay Pahar Peechhay Khai

Posted 2 years ago on 22 Oct 2009 20:03 #
Beenai
Moderator

No....put all of them at trail ...
and there will be no Pharr and no khai.
believe me ,but a plain field to play on equal grounds .

Posted 2 years ago on 23 Oct 2009 6:31 #
amin1924
member

This pahar/khai mentality is real problem because it tells people that you do not have any alternative.

Posted 2 years ago on 23 Oct 2009 9:24 #
Beenai
Moderator

rathe we should believe :
where there is a will................

Posted 2 years ago on 23 Oct 2009 10:26 #
KHAN_Sahib
Member

I was surprise to to know that even MQM has leaders who have
taken advantage by the implementation of NRO...and yet their ring leader critisize NRO like Shareef brothers..Wat a bunch of hypocrites!

http://www.jang.com.pk/jang/oct2009-daily/24-10-2009/updates/10-24-2009_9293_1.gif

Posted 2 years ago on 24 Oct 2009 23:06 #
Anwer Kamal
Member

@jj khan
"This pahar/khai mentality is real problem because it tells people that you do not have any alternative."

This is fact.
Everyday consipracy theories are comming out.Some Establishment agents are busy.
They will make one Mush again .

Posted 2 years ago on 24 Oct 2009 23:23 #