Nuclear Weapons - do we need them?

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Nuclear Weapons - do we need them?

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gv
Member

Does Pakistan need Nuclear Weapons?

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Apr 2010 10:54 #
nota
Member

Yahoodboy says "No!" But why the sudden concern?

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Apr 2010 11:01 #
gv
Member

@nota

just a passing whim... well we all know where 'yahoodbhoy' stands - the question is where do you stand?

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Apr 2010 11:02 #
lota6177
Members

gv
It’s a good moral boaster but I don’t see any scenario where Pakistan will ever use them. The atomic weapons are like ivory teeth for an elephant. Good for saber rattling.

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Apr 2010 11:04 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

We must;

(1) have ALL and every kind of weapons that we need to ensure our safety, our security from our foreign enemies (period)

(2) have as much weapons as we need to scare, to fight those who do not! believe in ALLAH ALMIGHTY

Everything has to be done within the framework as well as norms of justice as per Islam's standards.

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Apr 2010 11:06 #
gv
Member

@all

I am against nuclear weapons - and doubly so in pakistan's case.. i'd much rather we spend the funds on jobs, health and social welfare then on nuclear weapons

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Apr 2010 11:10 #
nota
Member

@gv
"well we all know where 'yahoodbhoy' stands - the question is where do you stand?"

Always as far away from yahoodboy as possible.

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Apr 2010 11:16 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@gv: We do NOT!!!! need to compromise our country/nation's security requirements.

I'v seen interviews of Dr. Abdul Qadeer where on numerous occasions he has already mentioned that budget for nuclear arsenal is small.

What we need, is to end corruption, be it of politicians, bureaucrats, military personnel, businessmen, etc etc.

Corruption or lawlessness is eating up;

(1) trillions! of rupees from Pakistan's pocket, each!!! year!!!

(2) thousands, if not millions of acres of land in embezzlment based acquisitions

I'v already showed on this forum, how corruption has eaten over Rs. 3.4 trillion!!!!. Plus the $10+ billion that Mr. Zardari has. Plus, plus, plus much! much! more.

Can you or anyone give us estimates on Pakistan's individual or in parts or total fiscal expenditure on defense ?

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Apr 2010 11:18 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@gv: Pakistan is a rich!!! country, but its being looted with both hands, by a tiny number of parasites.

We need to get rid!!! of them.

We'll have more than enough money when we do that. And the best way of doing it, is by struggling for implementation of rule of law according to Islam's standards.

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Apr 2010 11:23 #
ali-pk
Member

it will be very useful in the future when the tide changes and we get rid of secular+american boot lickers including our generals.

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Apr 2010 11:35 #
lota6177
Members

ali-pk
useful how?

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Apr 2010 11:36 #
gv
Member

@hk

fair enough - still anti nuclear weapons though...

@nota

not very clear on our position are we ?

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Apr 2010 11:37 #
ali-pk
Member

@lota6177
anything in the arsenal of Muslim countries will be very useful in the future when the corrupt/secular ruling class will be thrown away.

Remember, we are living in end of times and in these times there will series of wars between Islam & kufr.

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Apr 2010 13:29 #
lota6177
Members

ali-pk
I am curious about how would they be useful. Kindly share your ideas.

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Apr 2010 13:31 #
ali-pk
Member

@lota6177
i believe weapons aren't meant for displaying in museums.

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Apr 2010 13:32 #
lota6177
Members

what would the best way to use them for you and how?

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Apr 2010 13:35 #
mylove-Pakistan
Member

I can say that we need to have them, but hope we donºt need to use them.

We should use this technology for energy generation. I donºt know that much, but I can say that this technology may not be just for bomb. There should definitely be other ways to use it for the welfare of an ordinary citizen.

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Apr 2010 13:36 #
ali-pk
Member

@lota6177
nukes are just like anyother weapon, if the need arises used it on u'r enemy.

i hope now it's clear.

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Apr 2010 13:37 #
lota6177
Members

Remember, we are living in end of times and in these times there will series of wars between Islam & kufr.
do you mind explaining this a little more.

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Apr 2010 13:40 #
choosy
Member

yes ,we do need them as a deterance ...
not as a show piece in our drawing room.

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Apr 2010 13:41 #
ali-pk
Member

@lota6177
End times Hadiths will explain these things. i believe online material is also available.

a series of Wars between the forces of Islam & Kufr, Armageddon is very popular amongst the christians.

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Apr 2010 13:45 #
lota6177
Members

do you need nuclear weapons in this armageddon/war of end of times? You think it is morally right to use nuclear weapons?

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Apr 2010 13:52 #
ali-pk
Member

@lota6177
only Allah swt' knows with what weapons Armageddon will be fought. Atom bomb is just another weapon, from where the morality comes in this?
if the enemy is not hesitant to use it against us then what other choice we have, surrender for moral reasons?

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Apr 2010 13:58 #
lota6177
Members

who has higher morals? you or your enemies? or do you have the same morals as your enemies?

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Apr 2010 14:07 #
ali-pk
Member

@lota6177
what i'm getting the impressiion is ,you believe that even if our enemy nuke us we should hold on to higher moral values and let them massacre us.

How practical is this?

i repeat, atom bomb is just like anyother weapon and if a need arises it should be used.

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Apr 2010 14:11 #
choosy
Member

we need nueclear arms to end the war.
why not any war after Kargil?
answer :
after Kargil we announced our neuclear capability in Chaghi .
and that was the end of war mongering from India .
once and for all.

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Apr 2010 14:17 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@gv: I will only accept non-nuclear nonsense from you when our enemies have destroyed their stockpiles.

Otherwise, its not an option. So, why don't you stuff it ?

@choosy: It didn't end the war between India <-> Pakistan. It changed the war front or war theater.

Now they can't threaten direct military assaults. Now, they can only resort to covert warfare.

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Apr 2010 15:13 #
barackosama
Member

Since the following verse applies to warfare with regular forces, how do nuclear devices which are mainly aimed at the unarmed civilians play into the preparedness?

وَأَعِدُّواْ لَهُم مَّا اسْتَطَعْتُم مِّن قُوَّةٍ وَمِن رِّبَاطِ الْخَيْلِ تُرْهِبُونَ بِهِ عَدْوَّ اللّهِ وَعَدُوَّكُمْ وَآخَرِينَ مِن دُونِهِمْ لاَ تَعْلَمُونَهُمُ اللّهُ يَعْلَمُهُمْ وَمَا تُنفِقُواْ مِن شَيْءٍ فِي سَبِيلِ اللّهِ يُوَفَّ إِلَيْكُمْ وَأَنتُمْ لاَ تُظْلَمُونَ

Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy, and others beside them whom ye know not. Allah knoweth them. Whatsoever ye spend in the way of Allah it will be repaid to you in full, and ye will not be wronged.

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Apr 2010 15:22 #
haider3
member

Why the sudden concern about Pak's nuclear capability? Didn't you see that man called Prez Obama signing some paper along with others, 47 countries all told, claiming that only the West can keep and develop nuclear weapons and the East (i.e. Iran) cannot have such things come what may. Oh, yes, and "terrorists" (understand Muslims) might come and pinch them all one dark night. Plus the usual US-Russian farce about their flimsy treaty on destruction of n warheads. So it's our turn, too. Pak should get rid of its weapons so no big bad terrorist (read Osama bin Laden, long dead, but newly resurrected for the purpose) comes and gets his hands on them. Sad, but true. If only we all converted, we'd find ourselves in earthly paradise, courtesy of our friends, the West. They've shown us the way in the past (understand the colonial years), they brought us smartly forward thereafter (think: neocolonialism), now they're urging us towards the bliss of utter freedom and prosperity, that is to say perpetual peace through perpetual war. Lucky us!

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Apr 2010 15:40 #
barackosama
Member

The US [West] is the international policeman.
اسلحہ صرف پولیس کا پاس ہی ہونا چاہینا -

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Apr 2010 15:45 #
nota
Member

@Mirza Ghalib
"Why the sudden concern about Pak's nuclear capability?"

Curious, No? That was the first question I asked as well :)

Of course @gv gave the lame "just a passing whim" as an answer (funny the "whim" came right after Yahoodboy got featured)

I think it is baboos are celebrating "Protect Zionism" day today. We have Pervaiz Yahoodboy featured as a lot of muslim bashing/zionism promotion also going on in "Should Muslim Countries Leave This Joke Called UN? Fraudsters Ruling The World" and "Israel - Attrocities/Crimes against Muslims" as well.

What triggered these whims? I don't know...

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Apr 2010 15:53 #
ali-pk
Member

@barackosama
"Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered"

"And make ready against them all you can of power, including steeds of war"

“Make ready against them whatever force and war mounts you can muster"
.......................

It clearly says "Whatever Force"

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Apr 2010 16:09 #
barackosama
Member

My inquiry was about them.
Who could nuke the sparse armed forces while killing the unarmed civilians is no jihad.

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Apr 2010 16:15 #
haider3
member

Pardon my ignorance, but who on earth is Yahoodbhoy and why?

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Apr 2010 16:20 #
tamaazkhan
Member

Unfortunately, we do.
We are all only equal in the ability to kill.
The Nuclear arms are the leveler in this great game.

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Apr 2010 16:22 #
nota
Member

@Mirza Ghalib
Sorry -- that was a reference from another topic:
http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/adkgs-parvez-hoodbhouy

And my answers (two) to the question here:

http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/adkgs-parvez-hoodbhouy#post-139927

http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/adkgs-parvez-hoodbhouy/page/2#post-140091

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Apr 2010 16:28 #
gv
Member

@nota

my my! I seem to have hit a raw nerve there... To answer your question - yes i read the pro nuclear spiel on the hoodbhoy thread and was curious to find out what the average pk politics punter thought of nuclear weapons...

Incidentally, mocking ridiculous conspiracy theories does not constitute 'muslim bashing'... or 'zionism promotion' for that matter.

Also have you ever ever come up with one positive thought in the 3 odd years you have been posting on this site? For you its all doom, death and destruction....

@MG

I actually thought you would be anti nuclear weapons considering you don't approve of war and violence unlike our friend Nota here.

You'll enjoy getting to know him.. A self hating babu, he is a western educated member of the fuedal elite / ruling establishment who's the resident cheerleader for bloody revolution to restore true islam to its righful place..

Naturally the revolution will be fought by lesser mortals while he will be comfortably ensconsed in his dera somewhere in central/southern punjab railing against the evils of the 'babu' and the zionists..

Enjoy!

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Apr 2010 16:29 #
nota
Member

@gv
Where were you on Long March day? I think I spent the whole day at the LHC sniffing teargas and evening and night on the road between Lahore and Gujranwala. Now that is hardly sitting in my dera somewhere in central/southern punjab.

"A self hating babu"
Oooh come on. Just because I hate your boot-licking kind does not make me self-hating not a "babu".
"he is a western educated member of the fuedal elite / ruling establishment"
Western educated but with feet firmly planted here. And thank god I am not part of "fuedal elite / ruling establishment" (unless having a cousin as an MNA -- who I bash for being a **** -- counts as such.)

"cheerleader for bloody revolution to restore true islam to its righful place.."
Gladly! I'd die of shame if I was otherwise (like you!)

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Apr 2010 16:45 #
haider3
member

Thanks to both nota and gv for their kind replies. I'm not in favour of nuclear weapons. But I hate farces, too. And the Obama shindig was just that. As for Pak's own arsenal, just think a minute. We can't use it on India. We'd be killing Muslims galore. Ditto for Israel which would really deserve it. But then we'd get the Palestinians at the same time. So it's a bit of a dead end for us. The only value it does have is as a deterrent. And there it serves its purpose none too badly, seems to me.

About nota, now. What to do about one's birth, gv, you tell me? It just happens. Little choice in the matter. If, later, one realises what an awful class one has landed in and tries to make amends, nothing wrong with that either. As long, of course, as no hypocrisy is involved. But sure, I'd love to get to know your friend nota, just as, virtual though it is, I have felt enriched by getting to know you somewhat.

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Apr 2010 16:52 #
ali-pk
Member

@barackosama
Plz point out where i said that killing unarmed civilian is Jihad?

i believe, we were talking abt the use of nukes as a weapon in war times.

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Apr 2010 16:53 #
barackosama
Member

Who/what exactly the nukes will target upon in a war?

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Apr 2010 16:55 #
haider3
member

@nota, thanks for the links. Everything clear now. A Pakistani physicist, liberal, secular, leftist, with CIA ties. Exactly the person we need to save this country. I'll add him to my list of potential heroes.

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Apr 2010 17:17 #
tamaazkhan
Member

@nota
"...think I spent the whole day at the LHC sniffing teargas and evening and night"

Ohhhhhh, you are one of those.

The ones who were so blinded by your hatred, to see the contradictions of a PCO judge fighting for the constitution and the irony of one fighting for an independant judiciary while addressing, what were essentially, political rallies.

Making Chaudhry your champion just becuase "the enemy of your enemy is your friend".

Thanks Boss, now we have the 'independant' Chief Justice, browbeating the legilature to extend his tenure, imparting selective justice, congratulating the media.

What came of the suo moto notices on SUGAR, WHEAT, FUEL and ELECTRICITY. Oh, wait maybe Chaudhry picked up a book and read the dynamics of supply and demand.

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Apr 2010 17:28 #
zia m
Member

We need nuclear energy not the weapons.No sane person will try to justify nuclear weapons but ban on nuclear weapons has to be bilateral, If India gives up her nuclear race the subcontinent will be a safer place.

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Apr 2010 17:31 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@zia m: Is that the best you can do i.e., talk in terms of ifs' and buts' ?

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Apr 2010 17:35 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@tamaazkhan: Ok, so you want CJ to do the work of the executive, Police, Army, bureaucrats, etc etc, as well ?

Majority of this nation backs the current CJ. You always tell us you love/want democracy. Doesn't democracy teach you to accept the wishes of majority ?

Why this double standard ?

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Apr 2010 17:36 #
gv
Member

@HK

did you not read his post - he just said that the ban on nuclear weapons will need to be bilateral.. that's a pretty balanced approach..

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Apr 2010 17:36 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@gv: My purpose is to inform him, to open his eyes to the fact that to-date India has never! even shown a hint of goodness on its part.

Why does 'zia m' expect India to do any good now ? Why does he choose to ignore the internal dynamics of India, be it the past, present or future ?

There is no indication India will ever budge from its current stand over prevailing conflicts.

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Apr 2010 17:38 #
zia m
Member

Yes, we live in a dangerous world, ifs and buts are very important.Peace can not be achieved unilaterally.

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Apr 2010 17:40 #
tamaazkhan
Member

@haris
"Majority of this nation backs the current CJ."

Not in my neighborhood! From the people in my mohalla he is another one of those self serving basta*ds with a a big ego, who suddenly grew testicles when his former benefactor got tired of him. (sounds soooo familiar in our history)

Just becuase you support him Haris does not make it the majority's voice. Dont confuse yourself.

CJ never won an election, he was appointed by a millitary dictator in a coup and then reappointed by Nawaz's street power.

Where is the democratic majority represented here?

Next time, think before you type!

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Apr 2010 17:41 #