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Obama’s War

(14 posts)
  1. zia m
    Member

    Obama’s War, a lecture by Tariq Ali for the London Review of Books 30th anniversary events in New York City, April 19, 2010

    ""Afghanistan now is at a critical stage. And now I’m very glad to say that the London Review of Books, whose thirtieth anniversary we are commemorating, has over the years published myself and others on this subject, taking essentially a critical stance to this war because, as many of you will recall, it became fashionable all over the world, not just in the United States, to think of Iraq and Afghanistan as two very different wars. Which of course, on one level, they are. But I mean different moral values were placed on these wars by good-thinking people. The Iraq war was a bad war, which should never have happened; that is the view of large numbers of people in the United States today, and always was the view of an overwhelming majority of Europeans.

    http://www.guernicamag.com/features/1809/ali_6_15_10/

    Posted 1 year ago on 17 Jun 2010 13:17 #
  2. SufiSoul
    Member

    Obama already DECLARED a new war against BP.This is to divert attentions from Afghans and Iraq wars...lol
    So poor souls..

    Posted 1 year ago on 17 Jun 2010 13:19 #
  3. zia m
    Member

    link to the video of lecture...

    http://www.lrb.co.uk/2010/04/19/tariq-ali/obamas-war

    Posted 1 year ago on 17 Jun 2010 13:26 #
  4. zia m. Out of respect for you, I've just spent almost an hour listening to Tariq Ali, a man I do not like in the least because for me he's the prototype of the west brainwashed pakistani of whom there are so many throughout our country and within the Muslim diaspora. I don't regret the time spent. He said a few good things, a lot of things I do not in the least agree with and, all in all, one would now need to put our cards on the table to be able to advance. So let me ask you the first question, if I may. What was your own personal reason for posting these videos? Once I know, I can give my own impressions of what I thought of T.A's speech and his answers to the questions he was asked.

    SS, Your remark was also spot on. But you do realise, don't you that the oil spill was probably Allah's punishment on the West for drowning so many Muslim countries in toxic DU radiation?

    Posted 1 year ago on 17 Jun 2010 16:08 #
  5. Not Obama's war but before him BushII, Clinton, Bush1 right up till the actor-com-president who promoted a false vision of a global village and then of a new world order.

    It is not a war but a crusade being fought agianst Muslims in Iraq, Afghanistan and now in Pakistan.

    Posted 1 year ago on 17 Jun 2010 17:27 #
  6. Now, Patriot, this is a comment I wholeheartedly concur in. But it's not quite a crusade, which was the Christians versus the Muslims. This is more, to my mind, in the way of being the Godless versus the Muslims.

    Posted 1 year ago on 17 Jun 2010 17:41 #
  7. zia m
    Member

    MG,
    Thanks a lot for the respect.I do have lot of respect for Tarq Ali's views, but it was not always so.I used to hate his guts for his support of communism.I do not consider him brainwashed at all if anything he is very much anti-west.
    As far as my motive in posting his lecture is concerned, i think Tariq Ali has very convincing arguments against wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.He was very objective in his lecture.
    I supported Obama because of his anti war stance but was disappointed with his decision to send more troops to Afghanistan.
    I usually try to base my opinion of a person on objectivity
    rather than their religious or political affiliations.
    Some of my previous posts should support my claim.

    http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/colonel-imam-ideologue-or-pragmatist

    http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/tariq-ali-%e2%80%9cobama%e2%80%99s-afghan-pak-syndrome

    http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/tariq-ali-%e2%80%9cobama%e2%80%99s-afghan-pak-syndrome

    But,MG, you really disappointed me by invoking God in the oil spill, which happened due to some criminal acts by some humans.Blaming God for the death of thousands of birds and marine life is really pathetic.

    Posted 1 year ago on 17 Jun 2010 21:11 #
  8. zia m, Now starting with your last remark. DU is fine, is it? That only kills human beings? Well never mind. With me, you have to accept God to appear, He does in my life and thinking daily. So how not in the affairs of the world?

    This said, T.A. is no communist. That much I do know. I leant things from him about Karzai, I liked what he had to say about the need to leave Afghanistan and how to bring in other countries to help rebuild the country. I also liked what he had to say about Zardari. But he's too much of a US believer for me to understand. Not a word did he say about the financial crisis the West finds itself in. And even more than a US believer, he's a Europe believer and there too no mention of the economy. About Pakistan, I felt he knew next to nothing and was even a bit patronising. What was really interesting in the whole thing were the questions from the audience, many of which obviously upset him. The questions came nearer to translating my own thoughts on what is happening in US than TA's replies. Last, but not least, he talked about the Afghan insurgency without once mentioning the word Islam or Muslim. That is a grave mistake to my mind. What really defines the Afghan is his strong sense of his religion. Where's the objectivity in leaving out this very important part of the puzzle.

    zia m, Have I ever concealed from anyone that I'm a fervent Muslim? I think our very first encounter was on a SufiSoul thread. But being a fervent Muslim and being objective are not incompatible in any way. Neither is being a fervent Muslim and wholly tolerant. If anything, the opposite would be true.

    Posted 1 year ago on 17 Jun 2010 21:47 #
  9. zia m
    Member

    MG,
    If you like to discuss religion there are lot of threads under F&R.You have every right to believe in any myths you like.
    It would be stupid of Tariq to bring in religion in an intellectual talk.When Alexander could not conquer the tribes it must have been because of their religion.And Ho Chi Minh (RA) too must have been a great Muslim Commander.
    Tariq Ali for sure was a communist untill the collapse of Soviets, now he belongs to the "new left".He still is a staunch opponent of capitalism.I remember talking to him when i used to be JI supporter and Ravian.

    I thought he handled all the questions very well.I do not expect him to be a conspiracy nut.

    Posted 1 year ago on 17 Jun 2010 22:26 #
  10. zia m - I'll respond to your first sentence by saying I was actually addressing SufiSoul there and it wasn't a discussion by any means. Just an aside, as one says. I'll skip the rest of the earlier part of your reply. Makes no sense to get into a free for all about what constitutes religion, what intellectual, what superstition, what science.

    TA and his communism. No coummunist worth his salt could speak the way he does about the US. I've also read some of his books. The communist or better said ex-Commie is to be found nowhere. But perhaps he was one, though not in the sense one usually used the term. Here, have a look at this:

    Call the Politburo, We’re in Trouble
    Entering the Soviet Era in America

    By Tom Engelhardt

    Even if the world can’t imagine what a bankrupt America might mean -- it’s far clearer that, in the titanic struggle of the two superpowers that we came to call the Cold War, there were actually two losers, and that, when the “second superpower” left the scene, the first was already heading for the exits, just ever so slowly and in a state of self-intoxicated self-congratulation.

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article25746.htm

    So obviously if Gorbachov is one's idea of a communist, why not Tariq Ali. Could you perhaps once explain to us what the "new left" is? I've seen no trace of any "left", new or old, anywhere in the world. Perhaps just my ignorance.

    One thing in TA's favour though which I forgot to mention earlier on: He spoke very well about Iran. There, full marks. And as for conspiracy nuts, why not? After all nutty people often get closer to the truth than their so-called saner brethren. Anyway, thanks for posting. It made a change from the usual stuff we get on the blog.

    P.S. No hang on, I do have another short comment: Intellectual without the word honesty tacked on is no intellectual. It's just using words for the sake of words.

    Posted 1 year ago on 18 Jun 2010 9:33 #
  11. zia m
    Member

    MG,
    The New Left was a movement started by activists and educators in UK and US in 1960s and 1970s whose aim was to reform the earlier Marxist movement based on social justice and rights of labour unions.
    Tariq was a member of International Marxist Group(IMG), a Trotskyist party.
    New Left was influenced and inspired by figures like
    Otto Bauer
    Leon Trotsky
    Albert Camus
    Guy Debord
    Frantz Fanon
    Allen Ginsberg
    Emma Goldman
    Antonio Gramsci
    Mao Zedong
    Che Guevara
    Ho Chi Minh
    R. D. Laing
    Henri Lefebvre
    Vladimir Lenin
    Rosa Luxemburg
    Peter Kropotkin
    Herbert Marcuse in particular and the Frankfurt School in general
    Non-conformists oOtto Bauer
    Leon Trotsky
    Albert Camus
    Guy Debord
    Frantz Fanon
    Allen Ginsberg
    Emma Goldman
    Antonio Gramsci
    Mao Zedong
    Che Guevara
    Ho Chi Minh
    R. D. Laing
    Henri Lefebvre
    Vladimir Lenin
    Rosa Luxemburg
    Peter Kropotkin
    Herbert Marcuse in particular and the Frankfurt School in general
    Non-conformists f the 1930s
    C. Wright Mills
    George Orwell
    Jean-Paul Sartre
    Malcolm X

    Tariq Ali, a friend of Chavez can hardly be considered pro US.
    He was spot on on Iranian complicity with US on Iraq and Afghanistan invasion.
    He did not mention the role of criminal Saudi Royal Family.

    TA is one of the very few dissenters from Pakistan and i rarely see intellectual dishonesty among the dissidents.

    Posted 1 year ago on 18 Jun 2010 11:36 #
  12. Zia m, thanks for reply. In that illustrious list reproduced twice, there is a bit of everything for every taste. The source I liked best was the "Non-conformists of the 1030s." But, now, look here, if TA is a friend of Chavez, then he must know what's what, because Chavez himself, just like Pres Ahmadinejad, has made no bones about what he thinks of 9/11. So, TA was just being diplomatic when he answered that question.

    I don't know, zia m. Diplomacy is no bad thing. On the other hand, life taught me the hard way that if you are asked a direct question, better by far to answer it truthfully than to prevaricate. You can say, of course you'd rather not answer that. Did you notice, TA, did just that with one question. I forget what it is was about, US false flags, perhaps, but it was intelligent. And TA replied something like: Well, I'll think it over and give you an answer the next time I come.

    Spot on for your own remark about the Ruling House of Saud. No comment on your conclusion. Would take us too far.

    Posted 1 year ago on 18 Jun 2010 13:04 #
  13. zia m
    Member

    MG,
    People do have different opinions on certain issues, it does not mean they are being dishonest.What i hate is the extremist views who think they have monoply of truth.
    Everybody tries to analyze and come to certain conclusion.
    If you are referring to 9/11 inside job.Only those who are inside may know the truth.It would have taken TA another 15 minutes to really get into it, and he chose not to.I can't blame him for that.
    My own views on 9/11 are similar to Noam Chomsky.May be one of these days on a proper thread we will have a go at it.

    Posted 1 year ago on 18 Jun 2010 14:19 #
  14. OK, done, you start such a thread once, no hurry, and we'll all try and join in with our views. And once again, thanks for the posting. It did me good to hear TA again, even if we're not quite on the same wavelength. Long Live Free Afghanistan!

    Posted 1 year ago on 18 Jun 2010 14:27 #

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