Ok This might be another halal haram debate.

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Ok This might be another halal haram debate.

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NNL
member

Opening cinemas and shrines in Swat

MINGORA: Film shows and other forms of entertainment returned to Swat district on Monday, after about three years.

On the first day of Eid a new Pashto film was released in two cinema halls which ran three daily shows.

Authorities did not allow the late-night show because of curfew. Another cinema house is likely to reopen in a few days.

People queuing up to buy tickets for ‘Gul Soorey Soorey Kram’ had to undergo a thorough body search.

On Tuesday, police had to use batons to disperse a large crowd which had gathered outside a cinema. Because of the disturbance the first two shows at the hall were cancelled.

Entertainment business in Swat suffered huge losses over the past three years.

The Taliban had forced dancers and musicians and owners of video and audio shops to either abandon their work or leave the district.

Early this year, they killed dancer Shabana and hung her body from a lamppost in a chowk.

Pakistani army also opened shrine of "Peer baba"
===============================

SO IS THIS WHAT THE PEOPLE REALLY WANT

DOES ISLAM ALLOW THIS.

I KNOW WHAT THE TALIBAN DID OR THE WAY THEY DID WAS WRONG BUT IF THEY BANNED THE CINEMAS AND PORN SHOPS WERE THEY RIGHT ?

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Sep 2009 13:49 #
Anonymous

They had no authority to do all what they did, simple as that.

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Sep 2009 14:15 #
AsifK
Members

NNL

Any implemenation of law can be done only and only by competent authority. not by xyz .

If we go by Talibani logic, what will happen if tomorrow prostitutes get enough power / guns and want to implement their version of islam or laws ?

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Sep 2009 14:20 #
aimalkhan
Member

@NNL

Apparently Islam "allows" all these Haraam things in other tourist venues like Murree, Lahore etc.

I think its about time the molvis start apply sharia to these places and maybe butcher a few people on Mall Road (Murree) and in Anar-Kali (Lahore) for not following Islam.

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Sep 2009 14:31 #
zjshami
Member

No group of persons could be allowed to establish a State within a State.
A group would have to capture the sovereignty of the State through constitutional and legal process to impose its manifesto, philosophy and policy.

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Sep 2009 14:34 #
Anonymous

Banning porn in public cinemas is right, banning cinema is not but ONLY by government.
Banning or unbanning either of them by any non-government body is illegal and must not be allowed. If taliban ban porn movies where I live, I will go and purchase every single porn movie and openly display it on the streets.
(now that is rhetoric. I am not that brave and I certainly dont want to get killed in public, but ideally I would have encouraged everyone to do that)

We must allow and provide Swatis and NWFP people some form of entertainment, be it cinema or sports. Shariat aur Islam kay naam pay onn kee zindagi azab karna chor doo. yeh log aik ghutay hoey society mein rah rahay hein, onn ko zinda rahnay kay liyay kuch taza hawa doo.

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Sep 2009 15:06 #
amin1924
member

ان غلاموں کا یہ مسلک ہے کس ناقض ہے کتاب
کہ سکھاتی نہیں مومن کو غلام کے طریق

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Sep 2009 15:07 #
Migel9
Member

Has Pakistan become a slave nation?Under demented zaradari..

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Sep 2009 15:12 #
aimalkhan
Member

Pakistan is, and always have been, a slave nation. We are slaves of poverty, lack of education, health services, clean water, extremism and exploitation of people in the name of religion or nationalism for political purpose. These internal slaveries are much worse than the external slaveries of US, USSR, China or any other world power.

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Sep 2009 15:17 #
shriq
Member

I am not a fan of Cinema especially Pashto cinema, but what I liked is that Swat people had something to do (freely).

It was like symbolism of liberty from illegal, cruel , Senseless, unislamic occupation of Swat. So I loved it.

It is prohibited in Islam that is a separate issue and discussion.

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Sep 2009 15:22 #
NNL
member

Obaid bhai i agree and i have had also mentioned in my post htat i dont agree with the way of Taliban at all. the way they conducted their bussiness. but is that what the people of Swat wanted in the name of freedom.

Porn and Cinemas showing near porn ?

Is that the price of Freedom or one has to totally neglect religion to gain acceptance in the world.

I m not a taliban supporter and i kinda believe them to be the modern day khawarijites ( a work in progress in my mind i might be wrong though )

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Sep 2009 16:08 #
aimalkhan
Member

Maybe most people have forgotten but the idea of freedom of religion comes from the Holy Qur'an Surah Al-Baqarah; Aayah 256, "Let there be NO COMPULSION in DEEN (the way of life i.e., Islam)".

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Sep 2009 16:31 #
Asli Moulana
Blocked

Have you read the tafsir of the Ayah ?

If you have would you care to expand on it.

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Sep 2009 17:14 #
aimalkhan
Member

Nahi Maulana. I haven't read the Tafseer but I am sure you must have.

Does the tafseer contradict the Qur'an to say that there should be compulsion in Deen? Or does it say that it was applicable to the people of the time of the prophet only and not applicable now? I'd really like to know.

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Sep 2009 17:23 #
amin1924
member

aimal khan

Compulsion of deen is one thing and "freedom of religion" is another thing. Both are different concepts and you are confusing the two by mixing them together.

Concept of freedoms has specific meaning, don't take it out of context.

Similarly compulsion of deen also has specific meaning, don't take it out of context.

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Sep 2009 17:36 #
amin1924
member

Consider this, according to freedom of religion concept one is free to change religion per his wish.

But on the contrary, is it allowed in Islam for a Muslim to change his religion to idol worshiping or anything else, is one free?

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Sep 2009 17:51 #
Asli Moulana
Blocked

why quote an Ayah when you dont know what the meaning and context it was revealed in ?

Why say things when you have no clue about which they mean?

Odd isnt it.

I would suggest that you go back to the Quran and see the Asbab-e-Nazool of this ayah.

Then come back and comment on it.

You may find my post very harsh but its a sincere advice from a Muslim brother to another Muslim brother. one should not speak of things of which one has no knowledge. We all are learning maybe when you come back and tell me what you read and understood maybe i will learn something from you.

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Sep 2009 18:00 #
Anonymous

JJ Khan

Please educate me if it is allowed in Islam for a Muslim to change his religion, if not why?

Thanks

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Sep 2009 18:01 #
amin1924
member

bebus,

Are you planning to change yours?

Try google to educate yourself. Let us stick to the subject and not take my example as subject.

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Sep 2009 18:16 #
Anonymous

JJ Khan

Thanks for very informative and kind reply.

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Sep 2009 18:40 #
netengr
blocked

which is the Bigger Sin ?

Slaughtering and killing innocent people on the name of Islam and calling this action is Ibadat ?

Or

Watching Movies but consider themselves as Sinner and repent later

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Sep 2009 18:46 #
Asli Moulana
Blocked

lol

Why do people resist learning on their own and insist on being spoonfed all the time.

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Sep 2009 18:54 #
Asli Moulana
Blocked

there is no such thing as a lesser evil.

Evil is evil no matter how you look at it.

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Sep 2009 18:55 #
Anonymous

Netengr

For one catagory of people the former is Big Sawab and later is Big Sin.

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Sep 2009 18:56 #
Anonymous

Asli Molana

Why do people resist sharing knowledge and keep their knowledge to themselves?

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Sep 2009 18:59 #
Asli Moulana
Blocked

Why do some people always like to nitpick from other people's statement

Why cant they bring their own statements ?

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Sep 2009 19:06 #
aimalkhan
Member

bebus

Thats because thats the only way the dookan of mullahs run. According to them the Noble Qur'an is too Holy to be touched let alone learnt or understood. God forbid you quote an Aayah to prove one of them wrong. The sad thing is when you prove the mullah wrong by quoting an aayah he makes it look like you are trying to disrespect the Qur'an or proving Islam wrong.

May Allah make us follow the Deen of Allah and save us from the fitnah of these munafiqeen. Ameen.

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Sep 2009 19:08 #
Asli Moulana
Blocked

You can work the google cant you

so why cant you bring something to the table so that it can be discussed.

You can learn too from different sources

Cant you

Why be a typical desi and ask for spoonfeeding.

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Sep 2009 19:10 #
shriq
Member

There is no compulsion in deen to enter it. But when you accept Islam as your religion, accept it fully.

Udkhiloo fissilmi kaaffa.

I leave the translation to Ulama on the forum.

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Sep 2009 19:12 #
Asli Moulana
Blocked

Aimal Khan

You cant prove one thing from that Ayah for you dont even know its tafsir.

I asked you to go back and open Quran and read its tafsir and then come back and comment

cos i might learn something new from you but then you didnt respond.

You dont like what the Mullah says and then you cant be even bothered to learn on your own.

Now thats hypocrisy isnt it.

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Sep 2009 19:14 #
Anonymous

@aimalkhan

Perhaps this is the reason that Allama Iqbal said:

"Deen-Mulla, Fasaad Fe-Sabillilah"

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Sep 2009 19:18 #
aimalkhan
Member

@bebus

and these mullahs will still quote Allama Iqbal to fulfill theie agenda.

@Asli Molana

I read the shaan-e-nazool of this aayah from the urdu tafseer published by Khadim-e-Haramain press. The verse was revealed when some of the ansaar, who were previously jews or chrsitians by religion, when accepted Islam tried to force their children to accept Islam.

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Sep 2009 19:35 #
shriq
Member

That is why,

There is no compulsion in deen to enter it. But when you accept Islam as your religion, accept it fully.

Udkhiloo fissilmi kaaffa.

I leave the translation to Ulama on the forum.

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Sep 2009 19:40 #
Asli Moulana
Blocked

So how are you trying to fit over here when the discussion entails comments regarding Muslims. ?

Maybe most people have forgotten but the idea of freedom of religion comes from the Holy Qur'an Surah Al-Baqarah; Aayah 256, "Let there be NO COMPULSION in DEEN (the way of life i.e., Islam)".

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Sep 2009 19:44 #
aimalkhan
Member

I admit my mistake for quoting the verse.

I also admit my mistake of thinking that Muslims should be brought to the Deen of Allah by Wa'z-o-Taqreer rather than Dunda-bardaar Brigaide.

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Sep 2009 19:53 #
Asli Moulana
Blocked

No you dont have to apologise to me bro. The intention wasnt to humiliate you.

My point was to understand the reasoning of your statement.

Now to your next point

"I also admit my mistake of thinking that Muslims should be brought to the Deen of Allah by Wa'z-o-Taqreer rather than Dunda-bardaar Brigaide. "

SO would you disagree with the Actions of Hazrat Abu Bakr and Umer Al-Khattab Radhi Allah Taala Unhu Ajmaein. ?

They both forced people to adhere to Islamic Tenets. Most notable action was of Abu Bakr Radhi Allah Taala Unhu when he Radhi Allah Taala Unhu brought the people of Yemen to pay the Zakat.

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Sep 2009 20:12 #
aimalkhan
Member

The verse relevant to the issue of Muslims is Surah Tauba Aayah 5.

Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, THEN LEAVE THEIR WAY FREE. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

No Islamic state, taliban or non taliban can force anything on Muslims except Prayer and Zakat. Therefore, there is no concept of Taliban or Dunda Bardaar Brigaide in Islam.

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Sep 2009 20:12 #
aimalkhan
Member

Yes Maulana. I said the same thing. Abu Bakr Siddiq RA did Jihad against those who did not pay Zakat based on this verse of the Qur'an. There are scholars who argue that this verse only applied to Bani Ismail as a means of Utmaam-e-Hujaat but I can agree with you that these are the ONLY religious duties that an Islamic state can impose on its muslim population.

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Sep 2009 20:15 #
Asli Moulana
Blocked

How can you make such an inference.

When the Ayah explicitly says that if the Idolaters start praying and give zakat then leave them free i.e dont hunt them down.

Where does the inference is to leave them completely ?

My friend i think you need to go thru the Ayat again and then see that what you are trying to project isnt what Allah Subhanhu Wa Ta'ala has said.

The Ayah is regarding Idolators so if the idolators are praying and giving Zakat then the ruling of being hunted and killed doesnt apply to them right?

The Ayah restricted the ability of the Idolaters to move around dont you think leave them free hints to that ?

Now how are you trying to fit it into your thinking that this ayah refers that the Islamic State cant force anyone to do something?

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Sep 2009 20:42 #
aimalkhan
Member

Maulana, making idolotars establish salah and zakat, without accepting Islam??? This time I am going to ask you the same thing that you asked me. Read the context of the verse. The first 4 verses of Surah Tauba and the Asbaab-e-Nazool.

Also see that these verses are specifically addressed to the non-muslims arabs (Bani Ismail) living in Arabia at the time of the prophet SAW who were forced to accept Islam after the truth of prophet Muhammad SAW's claim was evident to them. Now, if the muslim army conquering Mecca were asked to LEAVE THE WAY FREE of the new muslims who were pagan arabs previously after they establish salah and zakat, then definitely these are the only and the maximum religious duties that any other muslim army/state can enforce on the muslim population.

These duties are also clearly defined in verse 41 of Surah Hujraat.

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Sep 2009 23:48 #
amin1924
member

bebus,

I see you and a couple of others using Iqbal's poetry out of context. That is not fair with the poet.

He rejected mulla's within a particular context but then also suggested mard-e-momin's role.

کافر کی یہ پہچان کہ آفاق میں گم ہے
مومن کی یہ پہچان کہ گم اس میں ہیں آفاق

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Sep 2009 0:34 #
Asli Moulana
Blocked
Aimal Khan

First off I apologise if my sentence was unclear in explaining myself but i had assumed you would have understood the translation of Ayah.

What i wanted to say in my post was
"The Ayah is regarding Idolators so if the idolators accept Islam and then are praying and giving Zakat then the ruling of being hunted and killed doesnt apply to them right?

My dear friend i urge you to go an re-read the Tafsir.

The idolaters were to be left alone if they had accepted Islam. Their mere claim wasnt to be accepted they were to show proof by praying and giving Zakat. (thus giving complete proof of being Muslims)

The First 4 verses of Surah Tauba deal with the Treaties with the Pagans/Idolaters. Before the day of Hajj and on the Day of Sacrifice All the Idolaters were given a time of 4 months to find sanctuary anywhere in Arabia and all the peace treaties would only be maintained till their appointed time.

The fifth verse i have explained above.

Now where are you getting that this is the only obligation of Islamic State. Have any of the scholars taken this position or is this your personal opinion.

Also see that these verses are specifically addressed to the non-muslims arabs (Bani Ismail) living in Arabia at the time of the prophet SAW
after the truth of prophet Muhammad SAW's claim was evident to them

What are you talking about NONE WERE FORCED INTO ISLAM ? Preposterous claim it is.

then definitely these are the only and the maximum religious duties that any other muslim army/state can enforce on the muslim population. << Again another claim which has no basis.

The Ayah 5 gives the description of when the Idolaters are to be left alone and not be killed. After they claim of acceptance of Islam they have to show that they pray and pay zakat.

Thats a description of the New Muslims i.e ex idolaters who seek refuge by accepting Islam and their claims arent to be taken on face value.

Surah Hujuraat has no 41 ayah it has only 18 Ayahs you must be mistaken on the Surah's Name.

One more thing please do tell of the scholarly opinions regarding this matter which you claim that an Islamic State has no right other than that ?

The Ayah is in context of Non Muslims and you keep bringing in Muslims within the state. wonder why?
Posted 2 years ago on 29 Sep 2009 3:55 #
AsifK
Members

Asli Moulana & Aimal Khan

Havent we come too far from the original topic.

I appreciate your knowledge and interest but can't u open another thread for this disucssion . Thx.

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Sep 2009 4:44 #
aimalkhan
Member

Maulana,

The verse I refered to was from Surah Hajj (not Surah Hujarat). It clearly outlines the duties of the muslim state and verse 5 of Surah Tauba sets the limit of the states invovlement in the implementation of sharia. Besides Salah and Zakat the state CANNOT enforce anything on the muslim population. It is crystal clear from this verse.

You need to see the debate about Islamic system between Dr Israr and Javed Ahmed Ghamidi on YT. These verses are discussed in detail in those videos.

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Sep 2009 5:17 #
aimalkhan
Member

AsifK

The topic was regarding the start of cinema and music in Swat after the fall of Taliban. The issue discussed is what are the state's duties to implement Islamic law. I don't think we are off topic.

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Sep 2009 5:20 #
Beenai
Moderator

though ,i have very little knowldge on religion.
but as much as i know ,islam never stopped any one to get entertained himself as long as it is under the certain limitations .
islam never tells you to leave the world and start praying 24/7...indeed in Quran ,there is a prohibition and disliking being mentioned for the Rahbaniyat system.

islamic history shows that our dear prophet (PBUH)use to visit friends ,have jokes and have light moments of entertainment ....
but we have to decide
which one is allowed and which one is not ??????/

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Sep 2009 5:35 #
Revivalist
member

JJkhan,

One of very nice sheer of Iqbal for some of the guys we have here with us is;

AIK WALWALA-E-TAZA DIA MAI NE DILO KO
LAHORE SE TA KHAKE BUKHARA-0-SAMARQAND
LAKIN MUJHAY PAIDA KIA OS QOM MAI TU NAY
JIS QOM KE BANDAY HAI GHULAMI PE RAZAMAND.

Regards

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Sep 2009 6:44 #
Asli Moulana
Blocked

Aimal

I cant help pointing it out when you get the Surah name wrong. It happens to me at times.

Have you read the Ayah 41 of Surah Hajj. Arent you missing out on a key point and just looking at what you wish to see ?

You said the verse is crystal clear that the RULERS can only enforce Salat and Zakat and nothing else.

You sure ?

(They are) those who, if We establish them in the land, establish regular prayer and give regular charity, enjoin the right and forbid wrong: with Allah rests the end (and decision) of (all) affairs. (41)

Can you explain to me what the bold part means my friend. What comes under Enjoin The Right and Forbid Wrong. Doesnt it mean to stop all wrongs and enforce all the good things.

Am i missing something.

My friend please if you can give me references from the Scholars of the past cos both Ghamdi and Israr have good amount of valid criticism on them.

Besides when a matter that has been put to rest by the more stringent followers of the Rasool Allah Sallaho Alahi Wasallam then i dont think no amount of present bickerings can be right.

Posted 2 years ago on 30 Sep 2009 5:49 #
aimalkhan
Member

I assumed that you'd see this discussion on YT which discusses this topic of Amr bul Maroof in detail. The job of Amr bul maroof nahi unin munkar is to be performed by the state using the weekly Jummah sermon.

The state cannot enforce men to grow beard can it?
Can the state force people to go to Hajj (which is a pillar of Islam)?
Can the state force people to fast in Ramadhan? (eating in public is different and comes under the topic of ihteram of ramadhan)

The thing is Maulana Hazrat want to bring Iran like mullah controlled state rule to Pakistan where they can become all and all by the power of their fatwahs.

Our maulana hazrat talk about fighting wars like Muhammad Bin Qasim at the plea of a muslim girl but they do not have the courage to speak against unislamic acts by muslims against muslim women in phoolnagar, or in past what happened to mukhtaran mai.

Posted 2 years ago on 30 Sep 2009 11:30 #
Anonymous

Anything enforced with Danda, will die out very soon. The history is witness to it.

Posted 2 years ago on 30 Sep 2009 11:39 #