One country, two systems. Thats Pakistan.

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One country, two systems. Thats Pakistan.

(28 posts)

max786
Member

I was shocked to read recently the news (April 9) that the National Bank of Pakistan waived a loan of over Rs38m taken by a fertiliser company.

On the other hand, I came across a news item (March 29) which reported that a welder, who defaulted on a small bank loan, committed suicide after he could not stand the bank staff’s coercion.

According to the report, Younas Masih of Chak 401-JB Kujja, who had a welding shop on Shorkot Road, got a loan of Rs13,000 from the local branch of Khushhali Bank and the amount inflated to Rs17,550 after he failed to return the loan in time. The bank staff repeatedly visited his shop for recovery of the loan but he could not arrange the money.

The bank staff again visited him and took away everything in his shop, including his welding plant.

However, local people intervened and got Masih’s belongings back from the bank staff and sought time for him to arrange the money.

The bank staff gave him one hour, but Masih failed to arrange for the money. He went to a friend’s shop and took poison.

Masih’s body was brought to his village in an ambulance and his widow had no money to pay to the ambulance. Local shopkeepers arranged the money for the purpose. Anybody listening? One country, two systems.

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Apr 2010 22:11 #
islamabadi1
Member

I'm listening and although I like your piece of writing, the title is improper as you have dragged the name "Pakistan" into. You could have very well have said "One system, dual policies", why did you have to write the name "Pakistan" in it? It is like pointing a country out specifically. It doesn;t happen with any other country so why are you doing it with Pakistan?

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Apr 2010 0:41 #
haider3
member

islamabadi sahib, I'm wholly with you in this matter. What max describes above is a daily occurrence in our debt-ridden, genetically modified world. King US sees daily suicides on the part of jobless people pushed out of their homes due to foreclosures as banks are handed out fabulous sums as "bail out" money. Rest of the West, ditto. In neighbouring India, suicides, specially among the poor farmers and their failed crops, is rampant. In other areas as well, no doubt. That the above horrid example of double-standards ended in suicide is an uncommon tragedy. For Islam is not compatible with utter hopelessness. But so be it. So then, dear Max, remove the Pakistan, and we'll be with you all the way. Or then add the small word "too" to the end of the title, and that will also do the job.

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Apr 2010 7:18 #
shriq
Member

Max786,

People of Pakistan are being looted and exploited on all the fronts!

1 - You and me pay taxes even on the match box and our politicians shamelessly pay amounts like 5000 pak rupees annually (Nawaz Sharif),

2 - When it comes to qaum ko qurbani daini parai gi, then people like Nawaz Sharif dont give a penny and ordinary people (like a school teacher) gave all her life's saving for the national debt.

3 - When these ..... leaders sneeze they go to London for checkups and when our people are dying of deadly diseases (which may be curable if medical help is available) they dont even afford hospitaliazation.

We the awam would have to rise to tell this ruling class that "enough is enough" now! Change the things for positive or be ready to be executed (in awami way).

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Apr 2010 7:41 #
Anti Pakistan
Member

pakistan is running with one system the democratis system

pakistani culture and pakistan people are pure product of democratic system,

democratis systme make men slave,

Banks are tools of democratic system to slave people, once u are catched by the net of bank u cann't escape from ur inevitable death

Now i come to khushali bank

khushahli bank is corrupt bank who is growing on the work of poor peope( low grade people working in khushhali)

these poor people do All the work and all benefits are given to senior people whose salary is truly interest based salary.

Near in past khushhali bank cpu branch has dismissed its staff (poor people) because they are demanding for increase in salary. All those people are needy people who are working to fill their stomach

Khushaali bank has interest rate almost 34%, it mean if u get 100 from bank u have return 134 rs, its pure madness and now u tell me how people get out of this hell.

All banks should be banned for this,

An ideal islamic system is solution for this

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Apr 2010 7:44 #
wantinsaf
Member

There is nothing new in this revelation but the important question is how to get rid of it.
1-Vote credible,honest and competent people
2-Correct yourself as we Pakistanis are after all responsible for whatever is going on in this country.
3-Put your efforts for making Pakistan better.
4-Be Pakistani and get rid of ethno nationalism.

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Apr 2010 8:19 #
semirza
Moderator

Shriq, psycho and wantinsaf
Impressive analysis from you and Mirza Sahib.
Max786/Mirza Sahib. I can change the thread topic or add that 'suggested' word. Or let us wait and see what opinion Max786 has on this matter.

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Apr 2010 8:31 #
haider3
member

@watinsaf - Spot on. The four points detailed above couldn't have been better chosen. In the last resort, we the people of Pakistan, the nation, are responsible for what happens to our country. Let us improve ourselves and make further exploitation on the part of any ruling elite impossible to achieve.

@psycho - Heartbreaking to hear of that 34% interest rate you mention above. Even the Jews would balk at that. Or is Khushhali Bank run by them? Otherwise we definitely need to establish that interest-free Islamic banking system as soon as possible.

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Apr 2010 8:31 #
Anti Pakistan
Member

Mirza Ghalib

Bank system is presented by jews in west in 1600, to slave the people of west.

infact the interest is haram in chirisnity as well

then why u don't think this khushhali bank is pure product of jews to slave the people of pakistan, people those who catched in the net of khushhali bank are not able to come out in their whole life, and they don't have time to do anything else like to struggle for islamic system.

This is the lobby of jews

These bank are feeding on the blood of poors.

U know interest is an instrument who take pure blood of poor

That's why Allah has make haram interest for people

﴿ذَلِكَ بِأَنَّهُمْ قَالُواْ إِنَّمَا الْبَيْعُ مِثْلُ الرِّبَواْ وَأَحَلَّ اللَّهُ الْبَيْعَ وَحَرَّمَ الرِّبَواْ﴾

(That is because they say: "Trading is only like Riba,'' whereas Allah has permitted trading and forbidden Riba)

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Apr 2010 8:52 #
haider3
member

Thank you, psycho, for your complete answer above. Also for the reminder that Christ also forbade usury and Christians used to follow his teachings vaguely sometime in the past. today, of course, it's all Jew dictated. If Khushhali Bank customers are made to suffer so much they can no longer fighter back, we'll fight in their place, I hope, all of us united this once in spite of our multiple differences otherwise.

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Apr 2010 11:33 #
ali-pk
Member

this is the secular capitalistic democracy system which favors the elite and makes common man a slave. like the poor welder got enslaved by this system eventually resulting in his death.

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Apr 2010 11:48 #
Hussain Farooqui
Member

Peace and order can never be established in any society unless justice is dispensed orderly. Our system of justice is British Raj based, in which it was said,"Show us the face, we shall describe the law".

We need to dismantle the colonial system of justice and establish our own system based on the Islamic principles.

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Apr 2010 11:49 #
ali-pk
Member

@psycho

Plz also take into account the effects of inflation. Today's Rs.100 will be around Rs.80 next year, so in reality it's 154 not 134.

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Apr 2010 11:53 #
Hussain Farooqui
Member

Mr. ali-pk,

Rightly thought of a common man!
It is only the common man who has to pay for the wrongdoings the elite class people. Moreover, it is the common who always has to live hand to mouth.

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Apr 2010 12:02 #
Anti Pakistan
Member

mirza ghalib

brother muslim mean a person who submit his will to Allah

For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me. (John 6:38)

any one who submit his will to Allah is muslim

and Jesus of Nazrrith was muslim and true messenger of Allah

every prophet was muslim and islam is their religion,

it's the people like paul, peter or thomas who change the original faith

Khushali bank is nothing,

U now the business of this bank is going in loss, but still surviving, and it has largest customer in the whole pakistan
in microfinance banking, khushhali bank has support of IMF and world level banks

This is the one incident placed in the artical, i can give u thousand of examples of victom of khushhali bank,

they try of grip people, once u are catched u cann't escape even u want to escape, i know the victoms of people, paying interest of khushhali bank and making their lives end.

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Apr 2010 12:04 #
Anti Pakistan
Member

@ali pk

thanks brother

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Apr 2010 12:05 #
ali-pk
Member

@psycho
and the reason for usury/riba/interest/sood/biyaj to be declared haram, it's exploitative in nature.

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Apr 2010 12:14 #
Anti Pakistan
Member

@ali pk

u now world is suffering with financial crysis, this is outcome of interest based society and gambling.

Man made system can't compete with the system of Allah,

Allah is our maker, he for guidance, send his prophet who, established a society based on the principle of islam to tell people that this soceity is only solution for mindkind.

"They ask thee concerning wine and gambling. Say: "In them is great sin, and some profit, for men; but the sin is greater than the profit." They ask thee how much they are to spend; Say: "What is beyond your needs." Thus doth Allah Make clear to you His Signs: In order that ye may consider-

Surah 2:219:

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Apr 2010 12:23 #
ali-pk
Member

@psycho
i call it "Rebelious man made System'.

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Apr 2010 12:49 #
Anti Pakistan
Member

yes brother this system is desereted/haunted place to live

i wish what if i were not a product of this system

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Apr 2010 12:54 #
skunkk
Member

@ psycho: what is the Divine system because it is yet to be implemented any where, will you list down the features?

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Apr 2010 12:59 #
ali-pk
Member

@skunk
i'll copy/paste what i said in another thread:

Today, we are faced with the biggest challenge of the entire human history where the human has revolted against the Divine Rule & the Supreme power Allah swt' in the form of man made secular democracy with capitalism as it's tool.

To Allah swt' belongs the Sovereignity of Heaven & Earth and we are none but the servant of Allah swt' sent as the vicegerent on Earth to implement the Divine Rule according to the path shown to us by Prophet Muhammad Saw'.

there's only one single definition of Islam reached to us through Prophet Muhammad Saw'. Unfortunately, today Islam is seen merely as a Fiqhi system which is not the case, instead, Islam provides us with a complete system of life covering the socio-politico-economic aspects of human life.

The political aspect demands us to recognise the Sovereignity of Allah swt on earth and heaven and that we humans are just the vicegerent to implement the Divine rule brought to us by Prophet Muhammad Saw.

The economic aspect demands us to recognise Riba' free economy with Gold/silver/some commodities as it's currency. The purpose is so as not to allow humans to exploit others through Riba and deprive people of their rightful wealth thru man made paper trash.

The social aspect demands us to recognise a Free judiciary where the rulers can also stand in the court before the Qazi and there's no such thing as exemption.

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Apr 2010 13:43 #
Anti Pakistan
Member

dear ali pk:-

thanks

dear brother skunk

The social,political and economical system of islam is the best solution for mankind, given by Allah to our messenger.

Brother it had implemented by our prophet and his companions in the state of Madina.

The feature of this system,

1. The salary of president is equal to the salary of labour

2. A simple comman man can ask Hazrat Umer the president of that age where he got the cloth he was wearing.

3. The system of Zakat (economical system) during the age of hazrat Umer (r.a)
no one is poor in that whole society. Can u believe that

4. Allah has created us to test, so islam should be our first motive

5. The moral code of Islam ranges from smallest details of domestic life to the field of national and international behaviour. It guides us at every stage in life and makes us free from exclusive dependence on other sources of knowledge, although we may, of course, use these as an aid to this primary source.
6. Man is answerable to Allah for all his actions and will be called on to render an account of them in the Hereafter. Man’s short life on earth is really an opportunity to prepare for that great test. He will be impartially assessed on his conduct in life by a Being who keeps a complete record not merely of his movements and actions and their influence on all that is in the world ¾ from the tiniest speck of dust to the highest mountains ¾ but also of his innermost thoughts and feelings and intentions.
7. Man is Allah's creature, subject and servant and is born to serve and obey Him. These correct course of life for man is to live in complete obedience to Him. And it is for Allah, not man, to determine the mode of that worship and obedience.

8. Hazrat Khalid bin waleed was best general of time, but he was handcuffed before people to give answer about corruption.

Brother all the prophet before our prophet were working for a particular umma,

But our prophet is the only prophet who get the Sharia and a system which produce pure people,

There is no concept of such system before.

This system will be implemented on earth before judgement, i don't know how but, i don't believe in democracy and i have always hate for democracy that is atleast what i can do.

How to implement islamic system

Brother system require sacrifies before they work as our prophet and his companion sacrifies themselves for us

Brother the another problem is that many people like us don't in favour of islamic system becasue, islamic system need a simple life but people don't want to leave luxurious life, that is the another problem,

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Apr 2010 16:25 #
skunkk
Member

@ali-pk

Economic system without Riba is not in implementation in any country of the world. So how does it work? How do I get a loan to start my business?

The paper currency used to have gold as standard which is now limited but gold and silver were stopped because their very obvious limitations eg lack of on spot verification and practicability. How do you propose it to work.

@ psycho:

The blasphemy law does not allow anything to be said about Hazrat Umar however, I assure you that it was not all milk and honey as is portrayed in our books. For one it is obvious that there were poor or who was receiving the zakat?

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Apr 2010 19:56 #
max786
Member

My understanding is that this is called "PKPolitics Discuss Forum" So I was addressing mostly pakistani politics and the matter related to pakistan. So why pointing Pakistan matter??

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Apr 2010 23:25 #
Anti Pakistan
Member

@skunk

brother if there is not milk and honey written in the book then u tell me

how 313 defeated 1000

how 313 with no weapon defeated 1000 fully armored

can u tell me, how muslims in only 100 years conquer the super powers of that time,

and u said the blamesy of law doesn't allow any thing to said about hazrat umer,

"The hadiths of prophet prevent all sahaba"

Besides the Qur’an, the Prophet himself, upon him be peace and blessings, praised the Companions and warned Muslims against attacks and insulting words about them. For example:

Bukhari, Muslim and other Traditionists relate from Abu Sa‘id al-Khudri that God’s Messenger warned:

Do not curse my Companions! Do not curse my Companions! I swear by Him in Whose hand my life is that, even if one among you had as much gold as Mount Uhud and spent it in the way of God, this would not be equal in reward to a few handfuls of them or even to half of that

Posted 2 years ago on 17 Apr 2010 3:43 #
ali-pk
Member

@skunk
it makes no difference if it's not in implementation today, it was in the past and it will be in the future, Inshallah.

Islamic economic system doesn't place a bar on loans for productive purposes with an added advantage of loans @ 0% i.e Interest free. Before you ask, why would someone lend @ 0%, my response would be:

a) Out of brotherhood (an alien concept in this material system).
b) To share in the profit of the business.

Islamic economic system not only provided you with the money for production but also saves you from being exploited so you do not commit suicide like the poor welder.

Gold/Silver was used as a medium of exchange for 1000's of years, what was so difficult for the humans of our age. Actually, it's not about practicability rather it's about challenging the Almighty Allah swt'. Iblis challenged Allah when he refused to bow down before Hazrar Adam As'and he continues to challenge Allah Swt' in different ways.

Allah Swt' clearly says that people should not be robbed of their wealth unfairly:

“O ye who believe! Do not appropriate each others property and wealth in a manner that is unjust and unfair: Rather, let business be transacted in a manner that brings mutual satisfaction . . . .!” (Qur’an, al-Nisa, 4:29)

Paper money is nothing more than a fraud as it has no intrinsic value. I sleep to night with Rs.100/- only to find out that in the morning that it's worth has decreased to Rs.90/- Can anybody explain me, why have i been robbed overnight with Rs.10/-, i didn't engaged in any activity, where's my money worth Rs.10/-?????

The trade has to be fair i.e Value for Value', whereas in secular capitalistic system valuable goods and services are exchanged for a piece of paper which has no intrinsic value of it's own.

Posted 2 years ago on 17 Apr 2010 6:59 #
skunkk
Member

@ psycho:

313 defeated 1000 in days of Holy Prophet sw not Hazrat Umar r.a. The reign of khalifas was anything but peaceful. Hazrat Abu Bakr's reign consisted of wars of apostasy and zakat. Yes Hazrat Umar's reign was relatively peaceful but we were in constant state of war, Hazrat Usman's era was of chaos and Hazrat Ali's era was marred by in fighting and fitna ie muslims fought against muslims.

The fact that Arabs conquered vast territories is evidence of their superior warrior skills because it was not the first or last time it happened.

The Quran does not speak about the companions of Prophet in context to sahaba (except in few instances where a particular sahabi or group of sahabis is referred though not by name). It talks about people who follow religion in the rest of the places and even then only praises them does not restrict criticism.

The ahadith you quote is not accepted by a significant amount of Muslims who think only Prophets are not be commented about as they shall not commit a crime.

@ ali-Pk

Bottom line no one would lend enough money for the current rate of progress and increased trade does not allow gold and silver as currency.

Posted 2 years ago on 17 Apr 2010 22:19 #