What will we achieve by bringing down government?

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What will we achieve by bringing down government?

(37 posts)

Anonymous

There is an anti-government/anti-PPP/anti-Zardari campaign running these days. They want current government to go and Nawaz Sharif to come and form the government.

My question is, how will that improve anything?????
We have seen Nawaz Sharif's rule twice in the past and it was no better if worse. PPP rule also has not been an ideal one. What will we achieve this time by removing PPP and bringing NS in the power? Have we not done this twice in the past??

I have serious issues with this approach. This approach is fundamentally wrong, dumb and mindless. Instead of changing governments we need to WORK WITH GOVERNMENT to improve the situation. There is no point in re-testing the already tested ones and "hoping" for them to bring improvement. This just wont work!!!!

We need to do what all developed nations have done. We need to WORK WITH government by doing positive criticism and providing alternative policy suggestions.

AFter Musharraf's removal, Nawaz Sharif's character has been a big question mark. He has completely refrained from doing anything that could help Pakistan. First, he refused to go to SAudia with Zardari to get financial aid. Then he refused to join the cabinet and until now he has not even once provided any alternative policy suggestion. How could we trust this person??? Is this his patriotism??? Whatever it may be, bringing down government is solution to nothing. This is about time we, the awam, play our role and take responsibility.

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 2:08 #
shikra
Blocked

It is much wiser to let this Government complete its tenure.
The leaders of the opposition parties can contribute for the nation even sitting out of Government.

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 2:15 #
Anonymous

Exactly!!

Whoever forms government in next election should also complete its tenure. Opposition can contribute a lot, specially when they have open offer to join the cabinet.

N-League chairs many parliamentary committees. Chodhry Nisar heads public accounts committee. They can do a lot. If they disgree with any government policy they should bring it up in the parliament and bring a resolution in the worse case. Does'nt matter if the resolution is not passed by the parliament, atleast this way opposition can say it did all it could but cheap propoganda and creating rift between members of government will not help.

Awam must also realise role of the government and opposition.

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 2:18 #
Dervaish
Member

Who is this "we" in the title of your post?

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 2:20 #
Anonymous

Nation.

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 2:23 #
NNL
member

Right on target Obaid.

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 2:24 #
Anonymous

@Dervaish, whats in your mind?

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 2:28 #
shahzad1924
member

@bsobaid, i agree that bringing down PPP's government and placing NS's government would not make any difference but i dont agree that working with this government would make a difference.

just like NS has been tested before, PPP has also been tested before and not once, twice. there is no way you could improve the situation by working with the government.

zardari has already placed a 18-lac square kilometer big "FOR SALE" board on Pakistan. he has given the whole country to the US without even a single bullet being fired. the economic policy is still being dictated by WB and IMF and would continue to be the same no matter how we help the government.

the real solution is to uproot these corrupt rulers and these systems and in their place install a sincere leadership that would implement the system of Islam.

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 2:42 #
Dervaish
Member

"Nation"? That is a good one but it will not do my friend. Be more specific. Since when did the "nation" start the business of bringing down governments? Decisions of the sort we are talking about are taken elsewhere and by others. If the **** munafiq of Lahore, Nawaz Shareer, is going to be the new plunderer---once again unfortunately!---then it will not be the "nation's" will (which can always be manipulated) but the will of the overlords of the country's ruling class.

Anne Patterson is indeed very busy these days and the visits of Americans have also increased in frequency! Shame!

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 2:54 #
Anonymous

shahzad, you are right but at the current moment only 2 parties can form government i-e PPP and N-League.

N-League has popular support in Punjab and PPP ahs popular support in Sindh and other 3 provinces. We will see when we have sincere leadership but at the moment we have to work with these two and yes, working with the government can change things. We need to be aware ourselves and raise awareness among public to think about issues and not personalities. Every single step counts. Journey of thousand miles start with a single step. Drop makes the ocean. An aware public is the first step towards a better change. More steps follow, but we have to take the first step by doing the right thing instead of waiting for an inqalaab. Dont wait for Messiah, become a Messiah yourself.

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 2:56 #
Anonymous

@Dervaissh, realise the pwoer of awam. Awam does make a difference. If this was not the case then what was the need of running a public campaign against Zardari? what was the need to disgrace him in newspaper articles and TV shows?

Similarly, why is media running a campaign in favor of NAwaz Shareef? This is all done to generate public support. Awam does matter and if awam is not in the business of changing government then awam must take charge. No one will present taqat to awam in a golden plate. We have to take our destiny in our hands and the first step is public awareness. Lets start the walk and eventually we will all fly.
Awam kee taqat ko pehchanoo!

Dont wait for Messiah, Be Messiah yourself!!

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 2:59 #
zia m
Member

I'm not a fan of NS but he is showing great political wisdom by supporting the current regime.

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 3:02 #
Anonymous

@zia m, its not about political parties, its about system. If NAwaz Sharif was a prime minister today, I'd be expecting the same from PPP opposition.

Please explain how is he supporting the current regime and how is that a great political wisdom?

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 3:12 #
Dervaish
Member

Too many cliches and slogans! You have good intentions, nobel ones. But only that! Wake up dear and smell the coffee!

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 3:14 #
amin1924
member

Nawaz supporting by obeying all the 'wisdom' conveyed by hallcrook.

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 3:14 #
Dervaish
Member

Zia M: Please don't put the words "wisdom" and "Nawaz" together. It is really offensive, great offence to the word "wisdom". The same applies to other political "leaders" as well. Countries where the ruling elite possess "wisdom" are not countries like Pakistan.

Perhaps you meant Nawaz ShareeR is showing great political "cunning".

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 3:17 #
azizi
Member

Let me modify the question a bit:

“Would a government formed by a parliament with more representatives of people perform better than the current?”

The reason I asked is that the last elections were anything but fair. More than half of the opposition was sitting out. The bandooq mafia engineered Baluchistan elections. Had the lection been fair, PMLQ would have gotten only 8 NA seats instead of 54. MQM position would have been different in Karachi, had JI participated. PTI would have gotten some seats. More importantly, people voted with emotions and not with their heads.

If the answer is YES, we should steer the country toward a midterm election by tweaking elections laws and establishing an impartial election commission.

If the answer is NO, then we should expect the next full-termed election worse than 1977 rigged by Bhutto.

My solution would be to mend the constitution to shorten the election term to 3-years instead of five years for the next 15 years until the democratic process matures.

I have a theory as to why Bollywood started pliagrising Pakistani music after the 80s: Since Nehru completely killed Urdu education in India immediately after 1947, it did not produce new Urdu talent. Most of the pre partition Urdu poetry talent in India passed away in 90’s. Pure Sansikratized Hindi songs did not fit in Bollywood love stories.

But the highest kudos should go to PTV, musicians/ poets/ singers (such as Nusrat Fateh Ali, Musarrat Nair) and specially the younger musicians, who in spite of fauji dictator Zia’s crack down, kept Pakistani music alive.

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 3:19 #
Anonymous

No Dervaish, pessimism and hopelesness will take us no where. We tend to under-estimate ourselves. If awam do not matter then why dont they make, for example, Talal Khan the Prime Minister? He supports American occupation of Pakistan. What is stopping them from doing that? This all may sound like a cliche but such rhetoric and slogans are necessary to wake people up and to stir emotions and this will work because this is all based on truth and the right way!
Least we can do it so understand the role of government and opposition and understand the mechanics of democracy.

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 3:20 #
Anonymous

PML-Q did not get any seats. Chodhry and waderas got seats who would have gotten seats anyways regardless of the political party they were part of. Blaoch election results dont really effect central government. You could argue over 8 seats in Karachi that MQM may have won due to rigging.
PPP could have gotten more seats in Punjab but still the end result would have been the same. JI and Imran Khan combined could only get 3-4 seats tops.
Even if you hold elections today, PPP and PML-N will emerge as two main political parties.

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 3:23 #
Dervaish
Member

I am not "hopeless" or a "pessimist". Perhaps a little skeptical about your approach, which I also take to be a form of naivety. You got me wrong there. We think differently and our ideas of what counts as pessimism or hopelessness are, therefore, I think, different. Someone like Talal Khan can be the next PM in a country like Pakistan and when that happens the "nation" will have nothing to do with that. That is my point. And that will be, ah! once again, a very sad day for Pakistan (just like it is so tragic to have so many of these Talal Khans here, on this forum).

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 3:26 #
Anonymous

No no, the fact that Talal Khan is not prime minister itself tells us awam matter to the extent that we can hope awam can bring a change only if they try and trust me ONLY awami awareness can bring change. It has to be a gradual one. No over night inqalaab-e-france (which was also not an overnight inqalaab). Work with the system and awam will be gradually empowered. Take KArachi as an example. Why MQM had to build all this infrastructure (no matter how hollow it is) ?? Jamat's Naimatullah Bhai did excellent work and those MQM walas were peeing in their pants seeing Bhai Naimatullah doing all that good work. MQM had to work, they had no other option.

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 3:28 #
Dervaish
Member

I never doubt the power of awam, but just for the sake of the argument: how come we have a "Talal Khan" as our president right now?

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 3:32 #
zia m
Member

@Obaid
NS has not compromised on priciples.He wanted Judiciary restored and got that.He is working on compliance with charter od democracy and i think that will happen too.
It is not the system but lack of transparency and accountability that is the problem.We need to rise above party politics to establish good governance.
NS is headed in the right direction.We need to support him.

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 3:34 #
Anonymous

No, I dont consider Talal Khas as our president. This is a myth. We used to say the same about Musharraf and now that he is out of power, the very same analysts now accuse Musharraf of playing a doulbe game with US by telling US he is working against US and at the same time protecting militants. We all used to say Musharraf is brutally killing the militants but today we say he was playing double game. So I dont think Talal Kha is our president. We are following myth and propaganda.

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 3:35 #
Anonymous

No Zia, you are missing the point here. He is not doing what he is supposed to. He is not playing opposition. Asking for Musharraf trial is not opposition.

We have discussed this many times but let say this one mroe time. You ask anyone in any part of Pakistan about his/her biggest problem he'd say loadshedding, inflation and law and order. You tell me, how has Nawaz Sharif contributed to any of these issues so far? Has he provided any alternative policy measures? Has he tabled any resolutions in the parliament? Rhetoric in TV talk shows and newspaper statement do not count. He has the power to raise the issue in the right forum but he shies away and play politics instead. This does not help Pakistan and awam at all and therefore we all need to tell N-Leagure and other opposition parties to play real opposition. To do what opposition is meant to do in parliament. TV talk shows and newspaper statements do not count!!

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 3:40 #
Dervaish
Member

THis "myth" is very dangerously real, super real---and terribly corrupt and destructive to be more precise----for the very awam ("nation") whom you talk about so lovingly in every post of yours. Don't you see the contradictions and the futility of feel-good rhetoric?

Perhaps you can have a very "constructive", "positive", "hopeful" and "optimistic" discussion (but in the end, really mythical one, I must add!) with members like Talal Khan or even this Zia M, who is the flip side of the same coin that you are continuously flipping in the air while denying its reality. You can have your endless discusisons as to which of the two Talal Khans, AZ/NS, will prevail in a country like Pakistan. Good luck.

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 3:47 #
Anonymous

Khalifa, 3 years is very less. I think 5 years is a good enough time. You cant expect any substantial policy change to take root in 3 years. There will no sustainability either.

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 3:49 #
amin1924
member

I say if a leader is good then why for 3 years and if a leader is bad then why for 3 years?

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 3:52 #
Anonymous

We have 2 political parties who have public support. There is no denying of this fact. You can hold fairst elections in Pakistan but dont expect Imran Khan to win a landslide. It will still be PPP or N-League. AT the moment, these two are our destiny and we have to work with them. We will see when we have an alternative political force but at the moment we have none. So it is a very realistic and rational approach to work with these two instead of expecting Hazrat Kiyani to declare Shariya.

If this is mythical and non-realistic then tell me what is the realistic alternative??

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 3:53 #
zia m
Member

Obaid
You are right,Ns is too much preoccupied in bringing Mushi to justice.I still think Mushi has to be dealt with in the parliament.NS should exert more pressure to solve nations problem.But i am willing to give him benefit of doubt.
Otherwise he could destabilize the government that is not in the nation's best interest.If he wanted to play a political game he could care less if PPP government survives or not.

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 4:07 #
geelemitti
Member

THe way i see it , Only problem is the PPP leadership. Yes it is true that they both have been tried and tested but one should not forget that the power for both of these parties lies within the people they are ruling.

Zardari and Mafia , on the other hand, does not require this people power to stay in the power positions they are at the moment because they were not put on the throne of Pakistan by this power. Zardari has blatently used the name of his late wife to acheive this goal and Western powers played their parts to the fullest. If you could find read Tariq Ali`s posting about Zardari and his power grab.

It is true that PPP should complete its tenure but it is NOT true that having Zardari and his cronies for example ( Malik, Wattoo and the likes) will be good for country. It is my opinion that , given that they complete 5 years, they will not only rig the electionsé pave way for army, but they will leave Pakistan in such a dismil state that Pakistan will never be able to stand on its feet.

NS and other ppp leaders cannot exist with out Pakistan, Zardari and his group can only exist WITHOUT Pakistan once they are done with it.

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 4:29 #
shahzad1924
member

okay, maybe zardari gets more marks for his corruption but all the other options are similar. "sab aik hee thali kay chattay battay hain".

they become so innocent when they come on the TV and they say that "Zardari nay dhoka diya hai". as if this is some breaking news!

everyone knew the character of Zardari from day one. why didnt nawaz sharif take out the people on the streets to demand zardari to step down. he did take them out to restore the judges, why not for this?

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 4:40 #
geelemitti
Member

Dont assume that i am in favor of NS, I am in favor of Person NS against Person Zardari, in similar way i would have been in favor of Person Amin Faheem against Person Zardari any one is better then him, 10 years of politics has proven it.

NS, or any one from PPP more dependent upon peoople for their political survival is far better choice. In Pakistan situation is not the same as it was then. Media, what ever form of it, and people of Pakistan are willinly taking interest in the political process of Pakistan and besides NS's did atleast show the then president of US that he can bend against the will of his people to a certain extent and after that he had no other choice but to stand, Zardari had no such requirement and thus has no such interest in Pakistan.

Atleast you cannot equate NS with Zardari, It is hard to find a traitor as cunning and deceiving as Zardari , a true Mir Jafir.

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 4:59 #
Beenai
Moderator

nobody but the present govt itself is bringing down it ...
and nobody can stop it .
as its already on a steep slope down wards .

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 5:08 #
latentry
Member

I dont see any hope for this nation in coming future. As long as this lot of corrupt politicians will keep on playing muscial chair with this nation this country will keep on moving towards more and more difficult times. Shariff or zardari they are same people just the name is different. Its only God if he does some miracle things might change in Pakistan

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 5:55 #
sasherwani
Members

@ BSObaid,

To answer your question in simple words.. "a lot will be achieved by bringing down the government".. because there's a big chance Zardari will finally be exposed publicly during the process. He has been involved in hundreds if not thousands of scandals of murder, kidnaps, corruption (with a capital "C", kickbacks, bribery, defaults, felonies etc
I dont support any of the political parties, but it will be good to see atleast ONE of them go behind bars :) Next in line is the Takla Nawaz Sharif Ameer ul Momineen.

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 8:14 #
Anonymous

I still say let current government work and let the next government work as well. In the mean time, we will see alternative political forces emerge.

If we keep on brining governments down, nothing will change and awam will never be empowered. For the sake of awami empowerment, this government should complete its tenure and the next government should also complete its tenure.

Dont be so impatient. We were impatient in 90s and cheered on bringing down governments one after the other and you tell me what did we achieve?? Were NS and PPP not exposed to the fullest at that time? If we want alternative political forces to take root, we have to let this and next government to complete their tenure.

IF general elections become the sole method of power shift, no matter how rigged they are, politicians will have to come back to awam. Gradually, general elections will become fair. Its all about awami empowerment. Otherwise, our politicians will keep on begging amreeka and kiyanis to come into power.

Dictatorships can only breed Q-Leagues.

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 15:14 #