Overseas Pakistanis' Role in Pakistan's Politics

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Overseas Pakistanis' Role in Pakistan's Politics

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Beta
Members

All Governments past and present have recognised the contribution of overseas Pakistanis towards the economy of Pakistan. Is it not time that the overseas Pakistanis were invited to make a contribution towards the political progress of the country by:

1. Allowing overseas Pakistanis to cast postal votes in all elections.

2. Reserving seats in the National Assemblies for overseas Pakistanis based on geographical regions for example a seat each for Middle East, Europe, Australasia and the Americas. The candidates should be nominated by the local communities and the MNA(s) should be paid all expenses (travelling, accommodation and a daily allowance to cover food, local travel, newspapers etc.) to travel to Pakistan to attend the National Assembly sessions. These MNA(s) should also have shadow MNA(s) to ensure that someone will always attend the assembly sessions0

Just a thought; I wonder what other Pakistanis (local and overseas) think about it?

Posted 1 year ago on 09 Jun 2010 13:22 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

There are many positive, constructive ways in which Overseas' Pakistanis' can take part or have an affect on Pakistan's politics.

First, they have money. Money if well spent, turns into power.

If they make sure, it is spent for good, productive, constructive ways or places, it will go a long way in helping Pakistan, people of Pakistan, as well as be a benefit for themselves.

Second, they have education. They can bring awareness among Pakistanis' about a great many things.

Third, they can provide strategic support to interests of Muslims inside and outside Pakistan, by uniting for collective interests of Pakistan, of Pakistanis', of Muslims of rest of the UMMAH.

Fourth, they can help in building businesses, strategic institutions, so people of Pakistan can take back Pakistan from its illegal rulers.

There's much more of what Overseas' Pakistanis' can help with.

Posted 1 year ago on 09 Jun 2010 13:47 #
toamin
member

overseas citizens have a key role in pakistan's economy -foreign exchange-

Posted 1 year ago on 11 Jun 2010 8:07 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

Overseas Pakistanis' can bring a huge change in Pakistan by encouraging, by pushing for honest trade inside Pakistan.

Flow of money that encourages honest trade/business (i.e., honest exchange of goods and services) in local economy will enable our people to live an honest life. It will jump start our people on the right path. The path to prosperity.

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Pakistan is 180 million strong nation. Our local economy alone, on the very least can be half of that of USA. Our traders need to invest their money in our own people, in conducting trade among them, in their well-being, in training them, in enabling them.

Secondly, if we conduct trade between Pakistan + Afghanistan + Iran, we can generate a local economy that is nearly the same size as USA.

(1) USA = local economy of 307 million people
(2) Pakistan+Afghanistan+Iran = local economy of 279 million people

Pakistan = 180 million people.
Afghanistan = 25 million people.
Iran = 74 million people.

Add Turkey to this list and we can bring about a local economy much bigger than USA. Turkey has 72.5 million people.

Pakistan (180) + Afghanistan (25) + Iran (74) + Turkey (72.5) = local economy of 351 million people.

Posted 1 year ago on 11 Jun 2010 8:14 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

What Pakistani people need is justice, honesty, bravery, self reliance, education.

We can build a much bigger, much stronger local economy than USA or Europe or any other power of this world.

Posted 1 year ago on 11 Jun 2010 8:41 #
haider3
member

Excellent comments above. Salam Sahib, I'm so glad you're back. We've been missing you all along.

As for what the overseas Pakistani can do for Pakistan, honest trade and awareness are key words, of course. Awareness both within Pakistan and in whatever country the Pakistani finds himself/herself landed in where Pakistanis more and more seem to say: no more of this. Let a revolution break out, let a foreign power rule us, but no more of such a ridiculour pretence of a government. So mainly, it means to stop being fatalistic and to start being energetic in the cause of Pakistan. Getting organised.

In the past it started with the small matter at the airport where one avoided the money changers and spent time seeking out the official bank. Now that too has gone and only money changers infest the place.

In my dealings with Pakistan, I've always met extremely honest people. I'm probably an exception. Whatever else one does, forget politics, we have no political system worth the name, and concentrate on the people of Pakistan. Empower the poor man, do something for him and his family and we'll have gone a step forward in liberating our country from its chains.

And HK, throw Turkey into your equation above and we'll be
an economic power to be reckoned with.

Also, please, overseas Pakis, never forget to learn from home Pakistanis and carry their profound message back to foreign parts.

Posted 1 year ago on 11 Jun 2010 9:09 #
Hussain Farooqui
Member

Our Pakistani bretheren living abroad are the blood suppliers to our national economy. In return, whenever they need any help from the Pakistani ambassies, they are badly disappointed. If they are treated nicely, they can help our national economy stand on its own feet.

Posted 1 year ago on 11 Jun 2010 11:04 #
Beta
Members

Perhaps the members who have commented should read the first post again and should comment on the subject they were invitied to comment on, not economy, not trade, not education and not the performances of Pakistan's embassies.

Thank you.

Posted 1 year ago on 11 Jun 2010 20:41 #
haider3
member

Beta, your post was about the participation of overseas Pakistanis in the actual political life in Pakistan. Judging from the answers you got, seems to me no one thought very highly of the political life of our country for the moment. As for the Embassy comment, my one, it was an indirect comment on your own. How on earth do you expect postal voting, which has to be overseen by Embassy staff, if some of them work only two hours a day. It would completely upset their routine timetable. BTW, Iranian embassies abroad organise such voting, but then that is Iran for you.

Posted 1 year ago on 11 Jun 2010 20:57 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@Beta: Your point in the original post sounds cumbersome.

Posted 1 year ago on 11 Jun 2010 20:58 #
semirza
Moderator

Interesting idea! Practically feasible but the way at home/ overseas Pakistanis are treated I do not think I/we may be interested to vote the same batch of criminals into power once again adding more misery for our already suffering brothers in Pakistan.

Posted 1 year ago on 11 Jun 2010 21:12 #
achtung
Member

beta bhai

i agree with all points raised by you

overseas pakistanis must have right to vote by post if they wish.

it will wise to allocate special seats in national assembly and provincial asseblies also based on geographical locations along with special privilages to meet the cost of travel etc.

the minister for overseas pakistanis should be either ex-overseas pakistani or a overseas pakistani, with no political party affiliation, willing to stay in pakistan for tenure and given honorary member of assembly status.

Posted 1 year ago on 11 Jun 2010 21:19 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

I have security concerns for votes coming from outside our nation's borders.

Posted 1 year ago on 11 Jun 2010 21:25 #
rainbow22
Member

When Israel was build, jews all around the world collected money. And gave to a man who came every month to every house in that area and send the money to Israel.
We oversea-pakistanis can use the same idea. And use the money in local project near by the city or willege we came from. School should be one of the main project.

Posted 1 year ago on 11 Jun 2010 22:15 #
haider3
member

achtung, something seems wrong with your thinking there. Why on earth should poor Pakistan be financing the on an average "richer Pakistanis" to come and give them lessons on good governance taken from our enemies the west and which, in any case, the overseas Pakistanis like the west natives have hardly begun to understand themselves.

And then you even want Pakistan to add to its overbloated number of ministers by creating a brand new post.

Think a bit, achtung. The way it sounds, nothing good can come out of such an initiative for Pakistan itself.

P.S. I find rainbow's idea much much better than all this voting business.

Posted 1 year ago on 11 Jun 2010 22:20 #
achtung
Member

mirza ghalib bhai

overseas pakistani hamarey bhai hein aur unn mein pakistaniat ka jazba ham sey kaheen ziada hy. ham overseas pakistanioo ki pocket par tou har waqt nazar jamaee rakhtay hein laikin unnko koi sahoolat deynay kay khilaf hein.

yeh kaisa insaf hy? kia yeh wohi insaf jis ka rona aik sahib hamesha rotay rehtay hein? hairat ki baat hy aap apney beywatan bhaioon par addam aitmad ka bilawaja izhar kar rahay hein.

mein nay minister ki post add karney ka nahee kaha. mein ney kaha keh iss ministry ka jo wazeer ho wo ex-overseas pakistani ho.

agar aap kahein gey 'the overseas Pakistanis like the west natives have hardly begun to understand themselves' tou woh bhi keh saktay hein 'the fanatic Pakistanis like the taliban terrorists have hardly begun to understand themselves'.

no offence intended plz.

Posted 1 year ago on 12 Jun 2010 6:44 #
haider3
member

achtung, you ended your post very well indeed. **** for tat, as they say.

For the rest, let's see: Why not? Finally a nation is one big family in my eyes, No question of a choice: the richer amongst us have a duty to bail out the poorer ones. So why shouldn't the ill gotten gains of the West flow back a bit to Pakistan through its own people?

About a political role, they shouldn't even be thinking of it the way things stand. They join our present corrupt system, they'll be corrupted in their turn, not to worry. So actually we're doing them a favour by saying: stay away from politics for now. When things improve for the country, then, why not, very likely even. Sorry about the misunderstanding over ministry and minister.

No offence intended and none taken.

Posted 1 year ago on 12 Jun 2010 6:59 #
achtung
Member

mirza ghalib bhai

"So actually we're doing them a favour by saying: stay away from politics for now"

i think overseas pakistanis are more mature people. woh apni jaan jokhoon mein daal kar wahan settle huey hein. woh pakistan ko zare-mubadla bhaij kar pakistan ki barri khidmat kar rahey hein. woh pakistan ko khush-haal dekhna chahtey hein. aur agar ham unn sey yeh kahein 'stay away from politics for now' to yeh sara sar ziadti ho gi.

Posted 1 year ago on 12 Jun 2010 7:27 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

Remote 'voting' rights. Typical nonsense from 'achtung'.

--------------------------------------------------------

(1) We are already being governed politically, financially, socially by remote entities, foreign entities.

Politics = Our state policies are dictated by foreign/remote entities

Finance = Our state budget is dictated by foreign/remote entities

Our state resources, machinery, money, policies, functionaries/people are spent on achieving objectives of these remote/foreign entities.

This current (2010-2011) fiscal budget was conceived in matter of two hours. Can anyone tell me, how and why ?

Social norms = Our state's resources, machinery, money, functionaries, policies go into enforcing social programs dictated to us by foreign/remote entities

Anyone aware of the UN's social engineering program, that Pakistan Govt. is implementing over us in our own land ? How do you think they are doing it ? By spending our own resources, by activating our own govt. functionaries.

(a) What is UN ?
(b) What is UN Security Council ?
(c) What is IMF ?
(d) What is the World Bank ?
(e) Who is running ALL these organizations ?
(f) Who is financing ALL these organizations ?
(g) Who is dictating policies of these organizations ?

What is their credibility ?

(a) UN is a 'privately' 'owned' club made by winners of WW I or WW II. It gives veto powers to those countries/nations/empires who are being controlled or run by Jews or Christians. What Muslims want or say is insignificant.

(b) UN Security Council is a 'privately' 'owned' Jews + Christians club. There's no representation of Muslims there. What Muslims want or say is insignificant.

Muslims will only be able to assert their will, their interests, their power, when we stand on our own feet, when we conduct business among our selves (locally, as well as among Muslim nation states), when we make decisions of foreign investment, or buying foreign stuff intelligently.

To prosper in local business, to establish local brands that we can export, we need;

(b1) to believe in Islam
(b2) justice
(b3) honesty
(b4) bravery
(b5) self reliance

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(2) We also have Pakistanis' who have reverted to foreign ideals while living among foreign system of life

We understand Pakistanis' who'v reached political echelons or corridors of power in foreign lands, have done so by compromising on interests of Muslims, by compromising on principles given by Islam, by adapting to west's given agenda, by taking oath for preserving western culture, western designs over those of Muslims.

Our culture, our way of life, our designs, our objectives are different from the west.

Do we need to give those remote entities more power, more control over us ?

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(3) Then there's dealing with 'voting fraud' in votes cast remotely

I don't believe any other state in the entire history of mankind, has ever allowed for remote voting.

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(4) Then there's dealing with the consistent headache that remote politicians haven't compromised on their loyalty to Islam

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(5) Then there's dealing with flow of finances for remote politicians

That'll be a whole new mess for us to deal with, which may envolve additional headaches of having to dealing with cases as per foreign made laws.

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(6) Then there's dealing with foreign legal entanglements

We can't afford this nonsense. It will bring our political system to a stand still. We will never be able to get something done.

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I repeat: I have serious security concerns over allowing 'remote voting' or 'remote governing' rights.

Posted 1 year ago on 12 Jun 2010 9:06 #
haider3
member

achtung, for once, do take what HK says seriously. He puts it very well.

And I stick to my point of view. In an abcolutely corrupt setting, the most virtuous, the most mature end up by succumbing. Experience has taught us that.

But someday it will come about. That's a certainty. Patience is required and, like it or not, the defeat of the West enemy.

Posted 1 year ago on 12 Jun 2010 9:23 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

The current US's war on terror is achieving one of its many objectives, be it directly or indirectly i.e., it is forcing Pakistan to over-spend. It is giving compromised politicians the benefit of the doubt to divert more resources to an un-needed war.

Since there's inherent massive corruption, this money will not only be spent on killing Pakistani people, it will also be spent on luxury of politicians, bureaucrats, army generals/operatives, or anyone else who is part of this process.

Which means Pakistan is being forced to borrow money from foreign entities that will need to be paid back.

Pakistan will end up in debt slavery to these foreign entities. This current generation plus even future generations will waste their lives in working hard to earn money that will be used not to benefit them, their local economy, their countrymen, but to pay off an un-necessary debt, that we are taking on right now.

It is estimated that Pakistan has an;

(1) external debt of around $50 billion (Rs. 4.2 trillion right now), which will rise to $75 billion (Rs. 6.3 trillion right now) by the end of this year

(2) internal debt, which has risen from Rs. 4 trillion (i.e., 4 x 10^12) to Rs. 8 trillion (i.e., 8 x 10^12) since this current PPP Govt. took over 2 years ago

This means, there'll be no change in the lives of millions! of Pakistani citizens for the present as well as coming generations. The more debt money we take, the more time it will take us to pay it off. The more whatever betterment we bring in our local economies, will be of no use to us!.

No matter how hard we work, we the present generation plus those that are coming in the future, we will waste ALL of our lives in paying off, in servicing this foreign debt.

..and in ALL these years, foreign/remote entities will make it harder and harder for us to pay off these debts, by manipulating state policies, by supporting puppet politicians to do what they want to be done within our nation state.

This is unacceptable. We do not! want our lives, as well as the lives of future generations of Pakistani people to be destroyed in debt servicing.

We want past generations of Pakistani people to come to their senses. We want them to stop! living out of their means, to stop taking up activities that we can't pay for. To stop! taking more and more money from foreign entities for living a life of luxury.

By making us pay off on external as well as internal debts, you the previous generations of Pakistani people will force us to fill pockets of current as well as future generations of people in foreign countries, as for amount they lend to us, we service that amount to 150%. That means, we give them a 50% bonus out of our own pockets.

Why should people not live a life of luxury in the west, when nation states like ours are ready to fill their pockets with OUR! hard earned money ?

Btw, do you know how hard it is to earn money in Pakistan ?

That is how you! are financing their! life of luxury. That is how you! are giving them prosperity, while helping in destroying the lives of millions of people of Pakistan.

Posted 1 year ago on 12 Jun 2010 10:09 #
haider3
member

HK, to the very serious problem you raise above, I think the only solution is to declare sovereign default for Pakistan on grounds that all that debt was illegally given to the wrong people, etc. Ecuador did it. We can do it. And long before that, several -west countries will also have done it. So no way will we be the first. No way that we are going to lay our false debts on the shoulders of coming generations of Pakistanis.

Posted 1 year ago on 12 Jun 2010 10:36 #
achtung
Member

mirza ghalib bhai

you are welcome to stick to your own point.
i read haris khan comment again and again as you desired. to me it is complete noise. complete hate comments. only propaganda. living in dream. he is good in blaming others. accusing others. wish him best of luck.

Posted 1 year ago on 12 Jun 2010 12:06 #
Anti Pakistan
Member

overseas pakistani hamarey bhai hein aur unn mein pakistaniat ka jazba ham sey kaheen ziada hy. ham overseas pakistanioo ki pocket par tou har waqt nazar jamaee rakhtay hein laikin unnko koi sahoolat deynay kay khilaf hein

Yeh ap kis se Sohulat ki baat kar rahay hain,

Yahan to log bkhoy mar rahay hain. Meray bhai khiyali dunia se bahir a joa, tumara president dunia ka corrupt tareen banada. woh to tum se sohulatain cheen lay ga, or tum dosron ko shulat denay ki baat kar rahay ho.

Wah wah

Posted 1 year ago on 12 Jun 2010 12:13 #
haider3
member

OK, achtung, full marks for trying at least, even if you didn't see the point. It was an economic point HK was making in his own way which you must all be used to by now.

And he's not the first to make it either. Others have done so before on other threads. And I do so also constantly when I talk about the ill-gotten gains of the West or haram ka paisa.

But never mind, achtung. You stick to what you know best. We'll just have to make do with it all. So finally, the tolerance will all have to be on our side and none from the others? OK, why not? Though all of you might feel ashamed of yoursleves someday. But that's the future.

As someone said recently elsewhere, we'll find the common ground of our all being Pakistani to come to some sort of peaceful agreement.

Posted 1 year ago on 12 Jun 2010 12:17 #
Sharif Aadmi
Member

Psycho,

U pretend to be very islamic minded.

Just remember , whats is a 'bohtaan' ?

Posted 1 year ago on 12 Jun 2010 12:18 #
zia m
Member

If all the politicians, industrialists and elitist from Pakistan bring back their money.Only if they stop building houses overseas, stop investing in foreign countries and bring back their kids.Pakistan has enough talent to run their own affairs.They won't need any help from expats.

Posted 1 year ago on 12 Jun 2010 12:24 #
Anti Pakistan
Member

Sharif Aadmi

What is bohtan???

Can u please define??

Posted 1 year ago on 12 Jun 2010 12:25 #
achtung
Member

psyco bhai

mein aapkay president ki wakalat nahee kar raha. mein manta hoon keh 'Yahan to log bkhoy mar rahay hain', mein manta hoon keh 'tumara president dunia ka corrupt tareen banada hy'.

agar aapka president aapki sahooltein chheen raha hy tou kia aap jawab mein overseas pakistanioo ki sahooltein chheeno gay?

barri khoobsoorat mantaq hy aapki!

Posted 1 year ago on 12 Jun 2010 12:30 #
Anti Pakistan
Member

$$$achtung$$$

ap wikalat nahi kar rahy to Pakistan kahan say oversees pakistanio ko sohutain day. Yahan to sohultain cheen li jati hain??

Posted 1 year ago on 12 Jun 2010 12:37 #
msyedh1
Member

Most oversea pakistanies are disappointed from present political leadership and state institutions. It seems this country is totally leaderless now. There are different groups working for their own interests.

Present political government is incompetent to run and solve everyday issues. Revenge motivated judiciary is committed to make disfunctional and destabilize this government on the name of rule of law with the help of PML Noon and establishment.

Everybody blaming others for past corruption and crimes but nobody want accountability for their own past.
In this situation nobody should expect much role from oversea pakistanies.

Posted 1 year ago on 12 Jun 2010 20:18 #
Beta
Members

For Pakistan if not the top, almost certainly the second highest source of foreign exchange earnings is the remittances made by overseas Pakistanis. That is the size of their contribution to Pakistan’s economy. They could do more hence, the poser for their participation in the political process. It was just an idea.
Disappointingly, only two members made comments to the point and relevant to the question asked. Others drifted towards their favourite hobby horse of government bashing, tolerance v lack of tolerance and West bashing and in the process without realising they reveal their true identities. If this pattern was extrapolated, it highlights that even the educated Pakistanis (both home and abroad) cannot focus on one issue at a time. One thing intrigues me though. Why is that the people who live in the West out of our own choice keep saying that they hate the West. Why not own up our own shortcomings and stop blaming others for every misery that Pakistanis go through. If West exploits us, why do we let them do this to us? Someone will start having a go at the corrupt politicians for letting this happen. For those, they should ask themselves, why do they vote for such people?

Posted 1 year ago on 13 Jun 2010 2:22 #
zia m
Member

""Why is that the people who live in the West out of our own choice keep saying that they hate the West.""

They think they have done Hijrat, they are earning sawab as well as $$.

Posted 1 year ago on 13 Jun 2010 4:56 #
haider3
member

I happen to be the biggest West basher on this blog, I think. I'll tell you why from my own point of view. Colonialism and its multiple crimes have never been forgotten by some of us. Hardly had we taken a deep breath of relief, we suddenly found ourselves in the neocolonial phase which has proved no less deadly. Hardly had we banged our head against the wall over that, we find ourselves being bombed out of existence by a West at the end of its tether. And then a fellow Pakistani dares ask why one hates the West. What arrogance you people show. And what blindness. I'm biased, right? Go ask the Western dissidents, all shining white faces and clean hands, what they think of the countries of their forefathers. They'll give you the answer and spare you no swear words either. I'm polite in comparison.

As for why Zardari & Co, if you had the least sense, you'd know the West put him there and the poor people of Pakistan had little to do with the whole thing. But dollar blindness is dollar blindness and there's nothing can be done about it.

Posted 1 year ago on 13 Jun 2010 9:19 #
zia m
Member

dissent:what a beautiful concept!
Dissidents play a very critical and healthy role in a society.They are essential for the development of democracy.
But you must have freedom of speech in a society to have any dissenters.They are found in abundance in western societies but you hardly find them in Islamic countries.Pakistan being an exception(during the days of corrupt politicians). Is it because we are perfect?
Or we have a monoply on truth?
It is very common and comforting for us to criticize others but blasphemous to point a finger at our own sick societies.

PS:The funny thing is without the dissidents from the west i will be at a loss to find ammunition against the neocolonials, therefore i feel ever grateful to them.
Don't believe me? Just check the threads against our enemies from the west on this very forum.
Wonder if Islamists have stopped producing their own intellectuals.

Posted 1 year ago on 13 Jun 2010 12:40 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@Beta: ..and who are those two people ?

I have some great ideas of how to improve Pakistan. Every citizen has. Its a matter of 'neeyat' (in urdu).

The thing Pakistani people lack is commitment to do the right thing .. just the commitment ('neeyat' (in urdu)).

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@zia m: (1) We bash west for its injustice, continued injustice. We don't bash them for the sake of bashing them.

(2) We don't subscribe to western ideals. 'Freedom of speech' is the license to abuse anything and everything beyond any limits, without any differentiation of right and wrong.

Standards of justice, that Islam gives already provides more than enough 'freedom of speech'. Its just that those who are run our state do not excersizing that teaching of Islam.

Posted 1 year ago on 13 Jun 2010 13:07 #
haider3
member

HK. the neeyat is there and growing among us. We'll change our country and the world. Just give us time. and Allah kare, this war that threatens us will soon be over.

zia m. You know nothing about dissent in the west if you think it's thriving. Really. Sometimes I wonder where you live when you talk about your beloved west. Just tell me one thing: is there any such thing as an anti-war movement in the west anywhere? No. They'll rise to save the privileges they feel our theirs by right. Do you think they care at all whether children are dying right and left, women and men and the countries of millions are drowning in DU, no. But don't you dare touch our wallets, that's all that interests them. I did not learn anything about neo-colonialism from the west. And the West dissidents I mean are those who formed after the false flag events of 9/11 leading to the filthy wars against the Muslims. It's an extremely small group, but with a lot of truth to its name. It's a group that says the west must be eliminated as the ruling power if mankind is to have a fair chance of survival. 10% of the globe with all the money in their hands against the remaining 90% who've been plundered of everything under the sun, including their rights.

We in Pakistan are wideawake in comparison with the fast asleep public in the west.

Posted 1 year ago on 13 Jun 2010 13:34 #
zia m
Member

MG,
Here we go again....with the conspiracy theories.
I myself am a witness to demonstrations in US against the Iraq war started by the neocons and right wing nuts.
England, i believe had a million man demonstration against the war, more than in any Muslim country.
The main reason for the defeat of Republicans in the last election was Americans opposition to the war.
I'm not a lover of west.I opposed Obama's surge in Afghanistan.US too have their share of right wing hawks just like the Islamists in Muslim countries.
Wars are easy to start but very difficult to conclude.
Iran Iraq war (between two muslim countries) i believe lasted 8 years.

Posted 1 year ago on 13 Jun 2010 14:04 #
haider3
member

zia m, I think it's perhaps simply two generations talking. I remember the Vietnam war where there were daily demos against that horrible west domino idea. For the rest, you did not address any of the other points I made. May I ask you to go onto the thread nota has just started on terrorism. Perhaps that might advance our conversation. I seem to have become your new SufiSoul. O greatly admired your duels. Now it seems to be my turn to take his place since he's often absent, owing, I believe, to PC troubles.

Posted 1 year ago on 13 Jun 2010 14:27 #
zeshaan
Member

Aik baar phir QARZ UTARO MULK SANWAROO, walee apeel aur muhimm shuroo karnee hogee.

Posted 1 year ago on 13 Jun 2010 14:53 #
zia m
Member

MG,
Inspite of your observation that i know nothing about the dissidents in America, i do know a little bit about Vietnam.
The major difference during Vietnam era was that inspite of change of government, Nixon refused to end the war.
Obama has promised to end the war and i believe all the US combatant troops will be out of Iraq and Afghanistan before the next US presidential elections.
I apologize if you feel i have a vendetta against you.
And sorry i don't care to engage on nota's thread, who has a habit of using abusive and vulgar language.

Posted 1 year ago on 13 Jun 2010 14:53 #
haider3
member

Oh, no, that's hard on nota. He's a gentleman born and bred, I swear. Well, the difference between Vietnam and now is that then it was a conscription army and now it's a professional army. And I wans't talking about US dissidents either, but European ones. I never said anything about vendettas either, just verbal duels without any hard feelings involved. Let's hope you're right about Obama's removal of the troops, but by the next presidential electrions none of us might still be around if the Third World War starts soon.

Posted 1 year ago on 13 Jun 2010 15:41 #
zia m
Member

i agree the draft played an important role towards ending the Vietnam War.But in Afghanistan atleast US has tried to do some development work, unlike Vietnam which was a complete show of terror.

Posted 1 year ago on 14 Jun 2010 6:55 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

Stopping war is hard ? Really ?

(1) Mr. Obama, even if he has good intentions, he will not be able to change much. Why ? Because he's not in power. AIPAC or CFR or some such organization is the one who is in power. They rule over USA.

The only difference between Nixon and Obama is the fact that Nixon didn't resort to telling lies or putting a cloak of secrecy, where-as Obama has to keep people hanging in a limbo, he has to keep them living in the illusion that he will end this war.

The point is to keep people living in an illusion for as long as possible, to keep the war machinery running as long as possible. That is how they make profits. Remember Halliburton ?

They didn't come here, start this war, fight it for 10 years, and now send in more private contractor force, rather than increasing official troop numbers to stop the war. They did it so they could fight it to the last moment.

One of their biggest product is arms sales. Their arms industry in spread in over 44 states. That industry gives jobs. They need money to pay for those jobs. They have made a reason, a rationale out of it.

They have in-fact institutionalized, industrialized and now also privatized terrorism.

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(2) Development ? What development ? You mean when USA / Nato and their allied forces coerced Afghanis' to grow drugs rather than vegetables, wheat, dry fruit, etc etc ?

Posted 1 year ago on 14 Jun 2010 7:41 #
zia m
Member

HK
Quit taking sentences out of context like the right wingers.
My reference was to Iran-Iraq war.

Posted 1 year ago on 14 Jun 2010 9:01 #
Beta
Members

The members were reminded that the thread was started to consider the possibility of overseas Pakistanis making a contribution towards Pakistan’s politics. However, after a momentary pause, West bashing has continued bringing in the wars and the American Presidents past and present.
Yes, those responsible for wrong doing should be blamed and criticised but the citizens of a nation, especially those have been n blessed with education cannot spend all their lives in the blame game. They must take stock of the present position and move forward to recover from the depths of doom and gloom. The worst position will be to continue getting a kick out of blaming others but never to undertake a critical self-examination. Improvement only flows from critical self-appraisal.
It was amusing to read the suggestion that the present Pakistani Government has been planted by the West. Surely, there was a General election in Pakistan in which the people of Pakistan voted resulting in a hung parliament forcing a coalition government. It was down to the people of Pakistan to return a party with clear majority to form the document and people gave their verdict. Where does the West come into it? It is difficult to comprehend but then this was also suggested that those who do not accept that the present government is planted by the West have the least sense. What arrogance and naivety! It is an old cliché that God only helps those who help themselves and those who want only Mann-o-Salwah are doomed.

Posted 1 year ago on 15 Jun 2010 0:55 #
haider3
member

Beta shabib, stop patronising Pakistan and Pakistanis from your West fastness. I'll stick to a short comment on your disingenuous last paragraph above. You know perfectly well how the West planted the present Pakistani government on us (and many governments past). Think BB and how she came to her death and you'll have the answer.

So the best thing for someone as alienated from his own country as you seem to be is to carry on sending Pakistan West money as long as it still lasts and let Pakistanis get on with sorting their own political problems without outside interference. BTW, I remind you the holy West is killing us on a daily basis, but that hardly matters, does it? Must be because we deserved it to the hilt.

Posted 1 year ago on 16 Jun 2010 6:31 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@Beta: There is no political power in Pakistan that has power. It is Army who has had power for decades, since Pakistan was created.

It was Army, that brought up PPP, PML-N, MQM. I'v come to know Army has 'gifted' parliamentary seats to MQM in Sindh/Karachi, even though someone else won that parliamentary seat through elections.

How do you figure that ?

Army has been manipulating elections, toying with law of the land since Pakistan was created.

Secondly, to show you about 'election's;

(a) I myself looked at by-poll election results for NA-123. I found out that around 80% of the registered voters in that constituency didn't bother to vote

(b) I found out the same is happening with general elections

33 million out of this nation of 180 million people took part in general elections in Feb, 2008. How much is that ? Even if you half that amount, and then calculate, how much is that ? Its a minority approval rating.

The people of this nation are fed up with those who stand up to represent them, no matter who it is. The situation has come to a point where people have no confidence in the entire system to work for their betterment, their well-being, to safeguard them, to ensure their prosperity.

Posted 1 year ago on 16 Jun 2010 7:42 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@Beta: Thirdly, Army higher ups believe in secularism, where-as the majority of people of Pakistan believe in Islam i.e., they negate secularism.

Hence, comes to the conflict between Army higher ups (who'v maintained power since Pakistan was created - to-date) and people of Pakistan.

There's a consistent struggle between the two. Add to that, the fact that most citizens of Pakistan don't realize its the Army, and its higher ups who subscribe to secularism, who are not letting this nation to prosper.

If they did, then they think they won't have any power left to have.

Posted 1 year ago on 16 Jun 2010 7:47 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@Beta: Fourth, when MULLAHs come into power, they are going to propose;

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(1) razor sharp accountability, across the board

To rectify your fears on 'razor sharp accountability, across the board', let me add here, that in Islam, JUSTICE is NOT! blind. The non-Muslim world promotes the idea of blind justice.

In Islam, standards of justice! adapt to the situation a human being faces. That means, justice in Islam is 'dynamic'. It holds only those people accountable, responsible for crimes, who have! in-fact committed crimes. Not anyone else.

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(2) comprehensive constitutional changes ( in order to cover loopholes, throw out all laws from constitution of Pakistan that allow for non-Islamic stuff to go on in this country )

Right now, Pakistan's law, Pakistan's constitution is based on British Act of 1935. Pakistan's penal code also conforms to British Act of 1935.

We want to change that and bring our! own! laws from Islam to replace it. That will ensure justice, healthy business market, competition in business markets, honesty back to our people.

There's a lot more on this.

For example,

(a) we'll add one law to constitution of Pakistan, which will say, that ALL laws have to be made according to Islam, that this law is above ALL other laws in constitution of Pakistan

(b) justice will be served as per Islam's standards

Which means justice that is 'dynamic' in nature.

(c) we'll abolish Article 240 of current constitution of Pakistan

It gives President, PM, Governess, CMs immunity from law. That means, they can't be held accountable no matter what they do right now.

MULLAH, if he came into power, he'll swiftly move to abolish this law.

(d) Then there's a law through which President spares lives of criminals

This law has been abused by Mr. Zardari to spare state criminals. We'll put an end to this nonsense, by putting in more details regarding this law, so its used in proper context. To stop its abuse, as Mr. Zardari continues to pardon state enemies by (ab)using this law.

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(3) land reforms ( a comprehensive plan to end 'feudal' culture forever! in Pakistan )

I'm personally going to advise JI / MMA on this.

This is one of the biggest scare to Army (Army higher ups), which is a feudal lord, since it has become a land mafia after decades of embezzling state owned land in different parts of Pakistan.

Be it Army or other large land lords, like Mr. Zardari or Mr. Nawaz Sharif, they are ALL! going to loose their power over the masses when MULLAH ( JI / MMA ) come into power.

MULLAH will take land from hem and distribute it among as many Pakistanis' as possible.

The rule for land distribution is present in Islam. I don't know it correctly. What I know is;

(a) The state gives land to common man with the explicit condition that the common man will give 1/5th of his earnings back to the state

(b) Land upto 800 kanals' irrigated and 400 kanals' non-irrigated is given to common man

Something like that. Read up on Islam's injunctions for precise value.

In this way, state can effectively make a contract with the common man to earn a lot of money.

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(4) End/curtailment of corruption across the board in Pakistan

No matter if its state institutions, Army, bureaucracy, business markets, health, education, social sector, etc etc.

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(5) Standardize Education System in Pakistan

I have a plan of incorporating study of;

(1) Islam's knowledge
(2) Geography
(3) History (as it is)

in incremental fashion, in a constructive way, during normal 16 years of study of our nation's upcoming/next generations.

So, when our children, in next generation grow up, they will not only have materialistic knowledge (i.e., knowledge of maths, medicine, science and technology, etc etc), they will also be fully prepared to take part in discussions about Islam, about Geography, about History.

They will have more than enough knowledge for them to be able to start missions on their own, even conquer other nations, in the name of ALLAH ALMIGHTY, INSHALLAH.

Posted 1 year ago on 16 Jun 2010 7:51 #