Pak Army Killing (Suspected) Taliban Children (Video)

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Pak Army Killing (Suspected) Taliban Children (Video)

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insaftak
Member

Shocking and Disgraceful Stuff by The Pak Fauj.

Highly condemnable.

Apparently Talibans are not the only animals in Pakistan.

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Sep 2010 22:07 #
shirazi
Member

Shocking and disgraceful ..... Would you say so when one of them would explode himself taking 20 odd soldiers with him? If you know better ways to fight suicide missionaries why don't you tell them?

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Sep 2010 22:17 #
insaftak
Member

shirazi ha detto: Shocking and disgraceful ..... Would you say so when one of them would explode himself taking 20 odd soldiers with him? If you know better ways to fight suicide missionaries why don't you tell them?

What is the difference between the Taliban animals and animals in this video that are shooting people like this. If they were indeed terrorists they should have been taken to courts. They were captured and there was no need to shoot them.

So much for us being civilized and Talibans being animals. there is no difference between what Talibans have been doing and what animals in this video are doing.

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Sep 2010 22:29 #
SufiSoul
Member

Every thing is fare in Love and war,all that we can say.Saying Army or Taliban as animals would not work here.They are out for killings or let me say brutal killings so their is no mercy cuz if they let them go they will kill them after turning their guns.So everyone Talib and Army has the only option to kill the other.
Important is to stop this war rather than backup any party to this war.People supporting any one of both the Parties dont understand the future implications for the unity of Pakistan....

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Sep 2010 22:34 #
shirazi
Member

@insaftak

The difference is numbers. If these kids had their way they 'd have taken down hundreds with them while exploding in crowded check posts or markets.

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Sep 2010 22:52 #
insaftak
Member

@ Shirazi
They were arrested by Pak Fauj and Should have been Taken to Courts. Pak Fauj Can't be judge, jury and executioner. They Were no threat to anyone when they were captured by Pak- Fauj. This is uncivilized and animal like behavior by Pak Fauj.






Posted 1 year ago on 25 Sep 2010 22:59 #
insaftak
Member

@ Sufi Soul.

IS there any need to kill anyone when your enemy is under arrest. they should have been taken to courts and courts should have decided what to do with them.

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Sep 2010 23:01 #
d0ct0r
Member

hmm those clumsy looking 'soldier' look all drunk

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Sep 2010 23:06 #
raheb
Member

(na)insaftak! whole story is suspected????? Are you a eye witness of this? If NOT then realiability of this booooooost is 2%. Please don't boost without any surity.

raheb

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Sep 2010 23:10 #
d0ct0r
Member

If they(kids) had been armed and fighting with army then it would have been understandable that they were gunned down during fighting but such execution and slaying of 'kids' who have their hands tied behind their backs and faces covered is nothing but war crimes and crimes against humanity and genocide.

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Sep 2010 23:10 #
d0ct0r
Member

I also suspect the authenticity of this video. Am not saying that our army is clean and haven't been killing its own people but this looks like 'staged' and fabricated just like that fake flogging and whipping video produced by that minallah lady. Our army men are not that skinny as is being shown in this video. It looks like a video from school drama maybe?

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Sep 2010 23:16 #
d0ct0r
Member

This one though is real,army had its urls blocked by PTA several times.

Posted 1 year ago on 25 Sep 2010 23:25 #
shirazi
Member

@insaftak

Easier said than done? How many insurgents are punished by courts. On what ground court will punish them. Not just our legal system where else in the world you see insurgents are trailed in courts? Did Indians provide due law process to Kashmiris or Khalistan fighters? Did Srilankans provide to LTTE fighters? Do you see Israel offering that to Hamas? Do you see Americans offering that to people captured in Afghanistan or Iraq. Did we offer it to Bengalis? The answer is big NO for more than 90% conservatively speaking.

Our track record on human rights is not that good anyway. Those who even have better than us are not able to set good examples. Did you ever wonder why? Legal frameworks in place are for civil criminals. If someone cheats, steals or kills in a society there is a process to track their crime and if proven beyond doubt judge can sentence them. Judges can prosecutors do not have the same flexibility in case of insurgents.

Usually law enforcement machinery do not have writ in areas controlled by insurgents. Even if they capture someone from battle field they won't be able to gather proofs about their involvement. And under civilian law judge will be forced to acquit alleged insurgent. That alleged insurgent will again target civilian but even before that there is a high probability he will try to kill few from law enforcement machinery.

The best bet is to keep them off the battle field ideally as prisoner of war (POW) as long as war is on. If you can't do that the second option is to kill them instead of allowing them to take down hundreds of your colleagues.

I am not justifying Army brutalities, if you follow my posts here you 'd know I 'd be last person defending Army here. But frankly I don't know what other options do they have? If you or anyone does please elaborate.

Posted 1 year ago on 26 Sep 2010 0:05 #
zenith
Member

@ shirazi

You are not taking in account the long term implications. These incidents have been used by the taliban to arouse more anger among the tribal people. The army has a habit of running a state within a state. When the most powerful insitutions do not respect law, who will?

May be the same happened during 1971. Or the same is happening in Balochistan. We may never know. This will fuel more hatred in the minds of young tribal children.

Pakistan army supports afghan taliban and some pakistani groups, while they eliminate the ones they think are not good.

God knows where we are heading.

Posted 1 year ago on 26 Sep 2010 0:18 #
shirazi
Member

@zenith
I fully agree with you on dire long term implications. If east Pakistan debacle was result of army atrocities what about paaka qilla operation. Was our Army any less brutal during Paaka qila or Sirlankan Army against LTTE or Indian troops against Khalistan rebels? When all said and done geographical boundaries of India, Pakistan and Srilanka are still intact despite all extra judicial killings by armed troops.

I am not defending Army's extra-judicial killings. My question is what other options do they have? Under what LAW they can trail insurgents? The law of the land, the mechanism it follows capture, prosecute and judgement is for civil criminals. It is not for insurgents. It's not just in Pakistan. Globally we do not have legal framework to trial war criminals or insurgents. It's impossible for prosecutors to gather proofs where they do not have writ of the state. Where they have writ there won't be insurgents, there will be small gangs that can be nabbed under state law.

Posted 1 year ago on 26 Sep 2010 0:27 #
Abdul Rahman
Member

My question is what other options do they have? Go back to the constitution that the corrupt to the core politicians and army generals tore at the behest of US/NATO war criminals. The constitution clearly stipulates army from entering tribal areas. You sided with US war criminals in killing brotherly Muslims and you should bear the consequences.

Posted 1 year ago on 26 Sep 2010 0:44 #
shirazi
Member

@AR

I didn't know that. So you are saying constitution bars Army from entering into Tribal area even if Federal government wants it to? Could you please post a link?

My understanding is Army is the last tool the state has to establish it's writ when every thing else fails. I just don't understand why any constitution would bar federal government to use this last resort.

Posted 1 year ago on 26 Sep 2010 0:53 #
raheb
Member

Instead of speculating who did what- without giving any evidence, is not better to use brain how to help nation to come out of crises?
What you win to accuse own army? NOTHING, but to become part of destruction.

raheb

Posted 1 year ago on 26 Sep 2010 0:55 #
d0ct0r
Member

No matter what you say,these young brain washed kids simply don't deserve to die with their hands tied behind their back and faces covered like that .. Its not theirs but yours(states,army's) fault that they have fallen in wrong hands are being exploited and used as fodder for war. Education,economic development & prosperity(employment) these are the things that deter extremism and whose job is to provide all these things to these people? Its State's responsibility which obviously is failing miserably in doing its job..

Plus your argument that they can't be left alive as they'll kill some one does make not make sense,these militants will use the same logic to justify the killing of army man(whom they view as their enemy and which is involved in hunting and killing them)

Posted 1 year ago on 26 Sep 2010 1:02 #
raheb
Member

I havenot said what you are saying. All such videos are NON-SENSE. Send me a photo of you so I can put to among these kids, or among those who are shooting them. So simple it is to make such fake pictures. How can you believe it?

raheb

Posted 1 year ago on 26 Sep 2010 1:08 #
d0ct0r
Member

raheb sorry my comment was meant for shirazi

Posted 1 year ago on 26 Sep 2010 1:13 #
shirazi
Member

@doctor Sahib
It's easier for us ( who haven't seen a battle ground in life, who are never fired upon) to say it's state's failure. There ought to be better education, just economic opportunities. All insurgencies are fueled by lack of such factors. No one disagrees with these hard facts? But until that happens, if it ever happens, the question is what should our soldiers do? Don't they have right to defend themselves? Do we, the educated bloggers from 9 to 5 routine, want to tie their hand with legal framework that doesn't have answers to their questions. The soldiers and insurgents can't wait until things improve on ground. They have to fight their war now with present lack of education and economic injustice. They can't and won't wait until these social indicators would improve. Suicide bomber will kill soldiers today and soldiers will have to get him before he gets them.

I did not say they can't be left alive. I said they need to be taken off the street until war is on, something like POWs. If our civilian organizations and human rights activists keeping on stressing to present these insurgents or missing persons to courts Army will be forced to shoot them like we see in this video. They just can't leave them in the battle field to target them or present them in the court where they will be acquitted. All they have is bad and worse options. They do not have any good option to exercise.

Posted 1 year ago on 26 Sep 2010 1:15 #
akhokar
Member

Dear Friends,

Supposedly; these are the boys indoctrinated to act as the suicidal bombers; trained and nurtured to form the death squad to carry out target killing as we see on its display in Karachi and Peshawar.

Reportedly; earlier on CIA organised the same type of death squads in Iraq and instigated sectarian killings—in between shia and Sunni sects. Thousands are massacred and that practice is still on.

Our military commanders on the grounds they know it well that in order to save the killing on the main land Pakistan by these killers of tomorrow which is often in hundreds; they be eliminated right in their dens.

This killing of younger suicide bombers may look very despicable act at its face---but may it be------- as it is better to nip the evil in the bud.

In any case; as per TTP mythology; the suicide bombers of their death squads want to meet their death as soon as possible to enter the granted heaven. Better it is that this process is hastened up for them by this type of acts---- before they become the lethal weapon to kill other innocents... in hundreds.

Posted 1 year ago on 26 Sep 2010 1:34 #
Abdul Rahman
Member

Shirazi,

I don't knew about it myself until I read the article in Dawn few years back when the first attacks on Waziristan started by drones and also PAF. It was none other than Dawn columnist Ayaz Amir, himself a former major with secular credentials who said that the constitution bars army into the tribal area.

Posted 1 year ago on 26 Sep 2010 3:23 #
nota
Member

@Aay
So you are back with you sh!t. Let's see...:

This killing of Qadyanis may look very despicable
act at its face---but may it be------- as it is better to nip the evil
in the bud.
And hope your children are among them for there is a good chance they will grow up to be like you. :)

Posted 1 year ago on 26 Sep 2010 3:25 #
toamin
member

Aay khokar' response is even more despicable than the action of army.

Swat doesn't fall under FATA, here Pakistan's Constitution/Law suppose to be applied.

I agree with sofisoul, we got to stop both parties from fighting each other, we got to stop this fitna war of muslims fighting against muslims, unite and redirect the fire power to better cause.

Posted 1 year ago on 26 Sep 2010 4:08 #
shirazi
Member

@Salam

"I agree with sofisoul, we got to stop both parties from fighting each other, we got to stop this fitna war of muslims fighting against muslims "

BTW it's not muslims against muslims It's Arabs against Americans. We have merely offered them our backyard and man power. We can't stop one side you are saying got to stop both sides ... HOW?

Posted 1 year ago on 26 Sep 2010 4:42 #
zenith
Member

@shirazi

Examples you quoted do not portray a successful story. The Khalistan movement still lingers on. Tamil tigers still exist and have not forgotten the attrocities. But here in Pakistan we have a fierce religious battle. The army is viewed by many as an anti islam force by many groups. The main reason why Pakistani taliban ( once sponsored by ISI) are fighting the army is because they have their own twisted understanding of Islam. For them its their own Islam vs all. ISI once had a huge role in bringing up these groups, but now this war cannot be won simply by force. How many of these children will the army kill? When religions get involved, it gets lethal.
And religion with the Pashtoon culture means - huge trouble. Hope u understand my point. The reason for this war is revenge which is being justified as a religious obligaion by many taliban groups. Now how do you tackle this?
71 was an ethnic clash which turned out to be devastating, but this is even worse and has a totally different dimension to it.

Posted 1 year ago on 26 Sep 2010 4:57 #
toamin
member

shirazi

Sorry dear, but first you need to learn basic geography of Pakistan and learn about area known as swat, that area is not in FATA, nor does it border afghanistan, hence your basic premise of argument is flawed.

Posted 1 year ago on 26 Sep 2010 5:03 #
nota
Member

@shirazi"BTW it's not muslims against muslims It's Arabs against Americans."

Oh wow! Talk of tainted lenses.

(Yeah, those guys in Uniform do look like GIs and those getting shot Arabs!)

Posted 1 year ago on 26 Sep 2010 5:11 #
shirazi
Member

@nota
"(Yeah, those guys in Uniform do look like GIs and those getting shot Arabs!)"
No they don't. They are the man power we as poor nation offered to rich Arabs and Americans. Osama pays to suicide attackers to blow up in crowds and GHQ has leased Shahbaz air base for $50M to hunt down most wanted Arab militants. It's $$$ vs dinnar with our blood in our backyard.

Posted 1 year ago on 26 Sep 2010 5:25 #
shirazi
Member

@Salam

How argument changes from Swat to Fata? Beside drones everything else is same in FATA and Swat. Same militants, same army operations same suicide attacks. Thank God there are no drones in Swat, yet.

Posted 1 year ago on 26 Sep 2010 5:29 #
toamin
member

@shirazi

then we can say the same about karachi, right?
why not same treatment for terrorists of MQM?

Posted 1 year ago on 26 Sep 2010 5:33 #
shirazi
Member

I think Paaka qila operation was in Karachi against MQM. Since then MQM strictly toes GHQ's line on one hand but Altaf still doesn't trust military establishment and is in exile. I think sooner rather than later there will be an operation against MQM's militancy.

Posted 1 year ago on 26 Sep 2010 5:38 #
toamin
member

shirazi

anyway, back to the topic, i don't think FATA & Swat are similar, i think swat was used by mushy just like he used a mosque in islamabad to gain support while he was going down..

they let the mosque go and then made 'success story' out of it, same is what happened with swat, a 'success story' came out with a lot of 'shabaash' for PPP..

Posted 1 year ago on 26 Sep 2010 5:41 #
shirazi
Member

@Salam

I am appalled when people blame Musharaaf as if he was an individual. He was COAS and all his decisions were military establishment's collective responsibility including present COAS, present DG ISI and many other corp commanders.

I agree both Swat and Lal masjid should have been tackled much earlier. Why GHQ allowed that mess is beyond me. The cost of the cleanup, both human and material, and the consequent backlash was very much avoidable.

Posted 1 year ago on 26 Sep 2010 5:48 #
nota
Member

@shirazi
"The cost of the cleanup, both human and material"

What a lovely term you came up with, Mr Shirazi...They could use you at ISPR or at their HQ -- the US State Department.

Posted 1 year ago on 26 Sep 2010 5:55 #
shirazi
Member

@nota

If there was a mess it is bound to be followed by clean up. I hope we agree GHQ should have intervened earlier to avoid the lawlessness that gradually build up in both Lal mosque and Swat. All I said bloody operations were very much avoidable.

Posted 1 year ago on 26 Sep 2010 6:08 #
nota
Member

@shirazi
No we don't agree. I have a different view on this. The situation was artificially created by GHQ so people like you and champions of human rights of the world yell for blood. It was a psyop through and through.

And please stop using that disgusting term ("clean up")

Posted 1 year ago on 26 Sep 2010 6:30 #
nota
Member

The video posted above is INCOMPLETE. Here is a link to the FULL video so you can hear the sighs of the downed boys and your brave soldiers walk up to each and shoot them in the head. Oops, I meant watch your brave Muslim soldiers "clean up"!

Posted 1 year ago on 26 Sep 2010 6:32 #
shirazi
Member

@nota

Link didn't work for me ...

BTW I don't see much difference in two statements:

"GHQ should have intervened earlier to avoid the lawlessness that gradually build up in both Lal mosque and Swat"

"The situation was artificially created by GHQ so people like you and champions of human rights of the world yell for blood."

I fully agree with your assessment

Posted 1 year ago on 26 Sep 2010 6:48 #
nota
Member

^^^
The full video has been removed from liveleak.

You can still download it from
http://rapidshare.com/files/420871059/Pakistani_Army_Killing_Innocent_Children_in_Swat.flv

Posted 1 year ago on 26 Sep 2010 6:53 #
expakistani
Member

Once they did it same in Bangal and Karachi, they been doing same in Balochistan...
would they do it in Lahore, Jhang or Khariyan?

Posted 1 year ago on 26 Sep 2010 8:54 #
akhokar
Member

Yes Nota;

I agree with you 100% that it should be our prime endeavour that all the evils must be nipped in the bud--- because as I said earlier and hope you will not run away now simply to disagree with me that if the evil of TTP was nipped as early as possible and if it would have not allowed to turn to become a monster that now we find in shape of death squads roaming about in our streets.

And since; of late it is being tried now to eradicate this evil and having found their breeding den; the army appointed and assigned with the task is carrying out the most pressing and critical national cause---

They must be fully backed.

Pruning of all the trees is necessity; it keeps the trees healthy and let them grow tall and strong.

Posted 1 year ago on 26 Sep 2010 9:02 #
akhokar
Member

This is most devilish act on the part of people; who intentionally allow or demand the space for evil to breed--- like we have FATA and TTP and other groups of terrorism are breeding in this area.

Creation of FATA in itself was nonsense...Its seclusion and considering it an area of immunity and not be governed under the main land rules---- in turn is allowing them to breed all type of evils which they are doing at full throttle and applying in main land Pakistan to extol monies.

All the evils that any devil may think of; like kidnapping, smuggling, narcotics and arms trading are the flourishing business in this god forsaken piece of land. Ironically; this has become the epicentre of all the evils espacially terrorism that we find in the world. All the devil minded groups are pinning lot many hopes on this area.

Take it granted that this evils breeding space that we are maintaining ---will take the entire Pakistan as well as Islam down; and you will see it very soon.

Posted 1 year ago on 26 Sep 2010 9:25 #
nota
Member

@Aay
Cut you BS. You are the biggest evil around.

Posted 1 year ago on 26 Sep 2010 10:32 #
akhokar
Member

Nota;

If pointing out at the devil is evil; then let it be.

Posted 1 year ago on 26 Sep 2010 10:54 #
nota
Member

Aay
Hope you die in a potty like your messiah!

Posted 1 year ago on 26 Sep 2010 10:59 #
aftab arif
Member

@ Shirazi Bhai

I am very disappointed by your first statement, you of all people i would have thought would be an advocate of the law taking its course no matter how henious the crime.

Second Insaftak 100%.

Posted 1 year ago on 26 Sep 2010 11:09 #
akhokar
Member

Nota and friends,

No matter how many books you may read or study the ‘in and out’ of jurisprudence; it may not help eradicating the bad habit of cherry pickers or the perverts who are bent upon to misguide the common people---neither they could avoid indulgencing in the habit of foul language which remains deep seated in their genes.

Camel while busy in cud-chewing; no matter how careful he/she may remain; it will always drop some food remnants; called ‘laana’ So they say in Punjabi that don’t expect anything from a camel other than; ‘lanna’ dropping from its mouth.. [outth dey mounh whichon lanna he dhandaa.] So I am not surprised when ever, people like nota, take such an offensive turn.

I feel sorry for such people and can only pray that; May Allah guide them to right path.

Posted 1 year ago on 26 Sep 2010 14:04 #