Pakistan’s Ideology and ‘Afghania’ a new suggested name for NWFP « PKPolitics Discuss

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Pakistan’s Ideology and ‘Afghania’ a new suggested name for NWFP

(79 posts)

semirza
Moderator

THE NATION
Sunday, December 27 2009

AFTER more than 62 years of the existence of Pakistan, there should have been little doubt in anyone's mind about the settled issue of its ideology. That ANP leader Haji Adeel has decided to take exception to the inclusion of the word Islamic in the nomenclature of the country and made certain other observations based on his assumptions about the nature of its polity, as supposedly visualized by Quaid-i-Azam, is unfortunate and reflects the confusion that continues to prevail in certain uninformed circles. It should be quite clear to everyone that Pakistan is an ideological state and that is acknowledged by well-known observers of politics in the international field. The father of the nation wanted Pakistan to be a modern, Islamic, pluralistic society run on the principles of the glorious religion of Islam. Of course, he did not favor a theocratic state for which there is no room in Islam; rather a nation that meets the various imperatives of democracy and that not only fits in well with the rest of the international community but is also a matter of pride for Muslims all over the world. Its working should be a beacon to the world to demonstrate what Islamic principles in action really meant.

Instead of lamenting the marked deviation from Islamic principles caused by the leadership, both civilian and military, that has run the country so far in turns, the ANP leader has raised the issue of the religion of president and prime minister, which has to be seen in the light of the question whether a non-Muslim head of state or government would be able to preserve the Islamic character of the country.

Reportedly, the ANP has also suggested giving the NWFP the name of Afghania to meet the objections to its earlier proposed nomenclature of Pakhtoonkhwa. But, interestingly, even the new proposal would raise many an eyebrow for its close resemblance with Afghanistan and does not take into account the wishes of the large non-Pashtun population inhabiting the province. Is there deliberateness to creating these confusions at this particular time?

http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-newspaper-daily-english-online/pages/Todays-Paper

Posted 2 years ago on 27 Dec 2009 16:44 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

I'd say Haji sb. is crossing the boundary of tolerance. I wonder how Pakistani people will treat him for this ?

He's saying this about a province full of people who are known to be the most loyal to Islam in Pakistan.

Haji sb. should worry about his future.

Posted 2 years ago on 27 Dec 2009 18:11 #
netengr
blocked

NWFP name is given by Kafir Angraiz and this should be changed ,Afghania is beautiful name bater then Pakhtoon Khuah.

Posted 2 years ago on 27 Dec 2009 18:31 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

I'm waiting to see what people of NWFP have to say about it.

Posted 2 years ago on 27 Dec 2009 18:38 #
javedsheikh
Members

Afghania sounds better, looks better, feels better and makes sense.
Afghania includes, combines and reflects the sentiments of all the ethnic groups living in the region.

Posted 2 years ago on 27 Dec 2009 18:46 #
mjkk86
Member

sindh for sindhis, punjab for punjabis, baluchistan for baluchis, why not pakhtunkhua for nwfp as they are in majority.
pakhtun khua is good name atleast better than afghania. **** afghania gotta do with pakistan's province both are diffrent countries with diffrent culture the only common denominator is religion. it does'nt make sense to name it afghania.

Posted 2 years ago on 27 Dec 2009 18:56 #
ased
Member

there is no reflection of better future and a wealthy life of the citzen in nwfp, in name afghania.

Posted 2 years ago on 27 Dec 2009 18:57 #
semirza
Moderator

Is Haji Adeel thinking/visualizing Afghanistan and NWFP as a federation called Afghania and not a possible merger of AFPAK named Afghania. A separate state according to the lines of the late Khan A.Ghaffar Khan?....Just a thought!

Posted 2 years ago on 27 Dec 2009 18:59 #
Wahid Doyum
Member

If only Pushtuns were that lucky to once again unite and get away from under the tyranny of Punjab and Tajiks!

No sir, we will be your cannon fodder whether in the army or taliban for serving your policy needs for rest of our lives.

Posted 2 years ago on 27 Dec 2009 22:23 #
kq
Member

Is'nt Afghania an old name. I think Choudhry Rehmat Ali suggested this name way back in 1932, when he wrote 'Now or Never' and also suggested the name of Pakistan. What did you study in Pakistan Studies at school :)

I don't think its a new name at all. NWFP should be renamed according to the wishes of the people, whatever is acceptable to them, whether its Afghania or Pukhtunkhwa. To often, politicians from other provinces butt in acting like renaming the province is somehow wrong. This needs to stop.

Posted 2 years ago on 27 Dec 2009 22:51 #
expakistani
Member

Pakhtoonkhwa or Afghnia soudns really good; but will changing name end up chaning luck for Pashoton people who are under constant suicide and Pk Army bomber for last few years?

if changing name can bring any luck go for it...

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Dec 2009 2:57 #
sasherwani
Members

Such a petty and worthless issue to be discussed by the intelligencia of the forum (no offense).

Whats in a name?

Nor Afghania will solve NWFP crises nor will the brand name Pakhtun Khua. Its us the ppl who can make NWFP a better place and changing its name wont really be a step forward.

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Dec 2009 4:57 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

Mirza sb. Certainly he is. Even Iqbal went to Afghanistan to talk to its rulers, not to try to break NWFP from Pakistan for inclusion in Afghanistan. NWFP has been a long-standing claim of Afghani people.

It could be that. However, AFPAK sounds more 'reasonable' here. It must be American $$$ speaking in Haji Adeel's voice, when he asks for 'Afghania'.

@sasherwani: I agree with you on "the problems of people won't be solved by changing the name of a province".

Having said that, I believe names do have significance in a state, even if that significance is 'symbolic'.

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Dec 2009 7:49 #
Adonis
Member

When the ruling political party ANP has absolutely nothing to show in terms of performance, it tries to raise non-issues in order to deflect criticism from its government.

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Dec 2009 8:47 #
Anonymous

Haris Khan

Name always remain significant. Afghania is a good name. It is old name of that region. People of that region want to be called as people of Afghania Province. So no one has the right or authority to deprive them of their wishes. No one should have any objection to a name which one likes for himself. JJ changed his name with his own free will. Can you or do you have any right to object on that?

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Dec 2009 10:43 #
BaliMA
Member

salami and sala are also good options for jj

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Dec 2009 10:47 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@adnak: How do you claim the people want this ?

Please give references.

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Dec 2009 10:50 #
toamin
member

I like the comment above which is spot on:

When the ruling political party ANP has absolutely nothing to show in terms of performance, it tries to raise non-issues in order to deflect criticism from its government.

This name is a non-issue for the people of NWFP

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Dec 2009 11:31 #
BaliMA
Member

when jjkhan has absloutely no arguments ki changed his name to salam. Aisay kaam hi na karo kaie moun kala hou aur phir baad maie logoun saie chupana parie.

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Dec 2009 11:35 #
toamin
member

I like you balima, how can i help reduce your frustration level? ??

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Dec 2009 11:39 #
BaliMA
Member

change your name back to jjkhan plz. Thanie ki report maie hum tumhay opar show karain gaie.

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Dec 2009 11:43 #
toamin
member

Tell me what does Balima mean, i think you meant to say Walima?

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Dec 2009 11:45 #
BaliMA
Member

since we are on walima lets get our un married bajis MArried? Pata haie ushara kiss taraf haie. Becharie ko bhol bachan aur chakar nah dou us kaie liye rishta dhoundou.
koie eik naiek kaam tu kar lou zalimoun

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Dec 2009 11:47 #
toamin
member

good luck to you with your endeavor

hum dua hee ker saktay hain aap kay lia

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Dec 2009 11:50 #
Raza76
Member

Guy,

A very simple question: Why not the People of NWFP choose a name for their own province, whether Afghania, Jahania, Multanaia.. or Pakhtonkhawa..

Why with every tiny right of people, pakistani ki salamati ku khatara ho jaata ha. Whats wrong with the people's right of choosing their own destination even. And here we are unwilling to give them the right to choose the name of their province.

I question, If freedom from the British was a rightful cause, because they had no moral ground to rule over the people, who wanted freedom from them, How is it right for India for Kashmir, and Pakistan for Baluchistan.

What is the measure to test the will of the people, Referendum. What to say of self determination, we are unwilling to give the right to choose the name of the province.

It is extreme hypocrisy on the part of most Pakistanis. And one more thing, Iran has Baluchistan, India has Punjab, tu kaya yah ilkay Pakistan kay ho gaya.. Ager woh Afghania nam rakh lain, if the majority of that province agree. Tu kaya kaymat aajaya gi.

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Dec 2009 18:44 #
Anonymous

Raza76

I believe that in one of the previous provincial assemblies, a resolution was passed to change the name, which included PML-N. But now PML-N is the biggest hurdle in this regard. Afghania is a name quoted by Allama Iqbal as well.

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Dec 2009 19:13 #
Raza76
Member

@hariskhan:

People want this because there is an approved resolution from that Assembly. And the second option is that lets have a referendum in that province about the name. The objection, I have is not giving them right at all! And secondly, this is the indivisible and inalienable right of the people of that province, why anyone else has an objection.. Its sad and difficult to understand.

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Dec 2009 20:06 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@Raza76: I don't know if you belong to NWFP or not. But let me inform you, most of my family from both my mother and my father's side is from NWFP. Most of my relatives are also from NWFP.

So, I don't understand who you'r calling 'anyone else'.

Secondly, ample arguments have already been given on the reality behind this ask. So, I won't waste time on further deliberations on the same with you.

Posted 2 years ago on 28 Dec 2009 20:10 #
KHAN_Sahib
Member

Afghania or Pukhtoonkhwa both will be acceptable to the people of NWFP due to the history of Pukhtoon People.
As regards to people who have objection of calling this a Non-Issue then why don't they just shut up and let the change happen.
If any one is so much concern about the non-pukhtoon people in NWFP and want to include their name as well then punjab should be Siyraki-Punjab, Sindh should be Urdu-sindh of Muhajir-Sindh and Baluchistan should be Baluch-Pukhtoon as well? Or why don't we just create more provinces/units and make 12 equal units?

As regards to ANP, I have no DOUBT that ANP has no interest in the welfare of Pukhtoons or any ethnic group just like any other ethnic party like JA Sindh or MQM.

By naming NWFP pukhtoonkhwa or Afghania, we won't be building a road towards AF-PAK as the destruction in AF is enough to deter any Pukhtoon to think of confederation.

PML(N) is a regional party which is localized to Raiwand farms only. They are only Interested in Nawaz Bachao, Punjab Bachao politics... They have no interest in Pakistan. PERIOD!

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Dec 2009 0:37 #
Fahim23
Member

I at least have no idea what was the idealogy of Pakistan?! What was in the minds of our founding fathers when they struggled for Pakistan. What I have learnt from our history books and textbooks is full of contradictions.

Anyways, regardless of what our founding fathers envisaged I think we the current generation of Pakistan should strive for a Pakistan - where there is no discrimination whatsoever on the basis of Race, Language, Religion, Sect, Gender or Color. A state should not distinguish between a jew or non-jew or muslim or non-muslim. A state should treat all its citizens equally. I also believe that Religion has nothing to do with "State". Pakistan cannot recite Kalma or witness on the Tawheed or Prophethood of Muhammad (PBUH) so for me it is absurd even to think whether Pakistan is an Islamic state or otherwise. Its citizen however may be muslims, christians, hindus, jews, or atheists.

And in any democratic country if majority of its people follow a certain religion, then they have all the right and will obviously do legislation which will suit them preferably and with utmost efforts in such a way that it does not offend rest of the people.

About the matter of name of NWFP, I think whatever is the will of majority of people living thr should be acknowledged and accepted. As far as I know the Provincial assembly of NWFP has number of times passed resolution stating that they want their province to be named Pakhtunkhuwah. So this is what it should be. If they can accommodate the Hazara or other communities and can come up with agreement on some alternative name, it would be even greater. But in case when they can't reach on Agreement, Voting in their provincial assembly should decide what name they want to give themselves!

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Dec 2009 0:45 #
KHAN_Sahib
Member

@fahim
so u favor a secular system?

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Dec 2009 0:48 #
Fahim23
Member

@KHAN_Sahib

I tried to explain my point of view in the above post. Whatever is the will of majority will be the rule of law and I will accept it even if my personal views are not in sync with the views of majority.

Let me repeat my point of view again. In the eyes of state, there should be no discrimination on the basis of Religion, Race, Color, Gender, or Language. Every one is equal citizen. If that is the definition of Secularism then yes I am secularist.

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Dec 2009 0:54 #
Fahim23
Member

Which country you are born and where do you live is in most cases not a matter of Choice - it is by luck, incident or according to some divine scheme. Religion however is a matter of Choice. People living in one house can have different set of beliefs as they are free to believe in anything. But which country they were born, what was thr mother tongue and what was the race is not thr choice! And I think your nationality is determined by these things like Ethnicity, region, language, and color not by "Idealogies".

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Dec 2009 0:58 #
KHAN_Sahib
Member

THANKS for editing your post... Luckily I read it again...

I have no problem with the statement in your 2nd posting.... but u said: I also believe that Religion has nothing to do with "State". Pakistan cannot recite Kalma or witness on the Tawheed or Prophethood of Muhammad (PBUH) so for me it is absurd even to think whether Pakistan is an Islamic state or otherwise.

Well, Pakistan was formed with an ideology and at present world, where a JEW State doesn't want to give its muslims equal and fair rights, A Secular state who kills it's Muslim Population next door to us on a daily basis and Christian majority countries who treat their non-christian citizens like a 2nd class people.... you are actually advocating a system where we should not try to incorporate religion ISLAM into its Political system so that we don't differ, go astray?

Correct me If I am wrong in perceiving your statement?

sorry to completely diverting the topic but i think it is still a related debate..

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Dec 2009 1:02 #
Fahim23
Member

@KHAN_Sahib

You probably know what was that "Idealogy" and would appreciate if you educate me as I mentioned earlier I have no idea what was the idealogy? For me I found Quaid-e-Azam the founder of Pakistan, a strong advocate of United India, the very religious sections of our soctiey who are claiming the ownership rights over Pakistan were against the very idea of Pakistan. Anyways, its a long debate.

I certainly don't want Pakistan to be Israel!! or any state which treats any of its citizen as 2nd class citizen. I want Pakistan where: In the eyes of state, there is no discrimination on the basis of Religion, Race, Color, Gender, or Language. Every one is equal citizen.

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Dec 2009 1:14 #
shimatoree
Member

Fahim 23

Refer you to Ayesha Jalal ' book on Jinnah
titled THE SOLE SPOKESMAN. All the meat is in there.

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Dec 2009 2:37 #
shimatoree
Member

This whole business about re-naming NWFP is illustrative of the bogus non issues that ANP politicians use to disuade and deceive the Pukhtoons from the real issues that face them in daily life.
The ANP govt. in Peshawer is the most corrupt and the most incompetent that has ever been in place. They are a disaster.
And now they want everyone to feel good talking about a name change as a great achievement .

And we wonder why are are in trouble ?

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Dec 2009 3:05 #
toamin
member

I agree with post above, change of name is one thing while diverting attention from critical issues is another thing.

House is on fire so instead of discussing a new name for house, people should first put out the fire.

Regarding your previous post, it has some good ideas, but it is a little over stretched because it touches upon so many major concepts in one comment.

Ideas like morality, religion, society, people relations, etc they all have different meanings with respect to view point about life.

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Dec 2009 3:42 #
azeem20
Member

i dont like the name AFGHANIA, i wonder when we will come out of romance of Afghanistan. i met hundreds of Afghanis in pakistan and in jeddah. they are allergic to pakistan. and they blame zia ul haq for destroying their country. they even said pakistaniun ne afghaniun ke bachon ko bheek mangne pe laga dia. hamare mulk ko tabah kar dia. blah blah.
there might be afghanis who like paksitan. but majority of the afghanis i met were blaming paksitan for their country problem. (they dont come to problems paksitan is facing because of afghanis)

anyhow. i think Afghania is a desperate plan for greater pakhtunistan agenda of ANP. (one can differ.) so if our pakistanis in NWFP really want to cfhange the name i think Abasin or khyber are good names. dont forget that there are hazaras and other ethnic groups as well in NWFP. but this logic is not strong as there are many ethnics groups living in punjab, sindh and baluchistan as well.

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Dec 2009 8:27 #
Adonis
Member

"Or why don't we just create more provinces/units and make 12 equal units?"
------------------------------------------------------------

That is not a bad idea actually. Smaller provinces will certainly improve administration and governance. This will also reduce ethnic divisions. In fact each of the current province can be easily divided into four or five new provinces.

If Iran can have 30 provinces and India can have 28 states, why we continue the ridiculously inefficient system of four provinces?

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Dec 2009 13:26 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

The inefficiency is not because of the size of the province/state.

The inefficiency is because those entrusted with the job are not working at all.

I am dubious, skeptical about the need further divisions at this point in time, especially when Pakistan is actively engaged in war on at least one of its borders.

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Dec 2009 15:58 #
Anonymous

Haris Khan

"especially when Pakistan is actively engaged in war on at least one of its borders"

Pakistan is not faced with any war with any other country on its borders. It is an undeclared war by the Jangli Janwars within Pakistan's borders against Pakistan's people. The inefficiency which you see is actually terrorism environments which unfortunatelly you support too.

A change in name can at least close one chapter on which citizens' energies are being wasted.

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Dec 2009 17:45 #
semirza
Moderator

'Jangli Janwars' were never a 'spontaneous phenomenon'. This undesired malignant growth now, of armed bandits and murderers was a creation first as friendly allies picked and trained from religious madrassas by politicized Ulema aided by Saudi Arabia and America, that later morphed into Jangli Janwars when abandoned. They are joined in with former convicts and wanted fugitives having criminal backgrounds.

Or shall we keep denying facts behaving as an ostrich!

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Dec 2009 18:27 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@adnak: O wow! You don't see;

1) 'tone' of Indians ?

2) military forces of 40+ nations comming together just outside Pakistan's borders ?

3) history, which educates us about bombing events that take place in countries neighbouring those where US is engaged in failed military campaigns. Haven't we noted the many examples which history shows us ?

Its just worse off in Pakistan, because Pak Govt. sent its military to kill its own people to help US fight its war, in addition to that which is already going on there.

4) Current US President declaring open war against Pakistan ? Threatening to send his military inside Pakistan ?

5) companies like Blackwater/XE services

6) 5+ military, air bases, all over Pakistan, that Pakistan has given to US for free, where US is amassing heavy duty military equipment ?

7) information gathering US agents who have been caught in Pakistan in recent weeks/months ?

8) the level of interference IMF has in Pakistan's fiscal budget planning ?

9) the level of interference by US in Pakistan's domestic politics, financial, social, judicial policies ?

10) US agents, agents of US military, agents of US agencies, JSOCs, FBI, CIA, military personnel disguised as 'dignitaries' are arriving in Pakistan without any visa, any checks, etc etc

11) free access to ALL citizens, all installations, all institutions of Pakistan that US has right now ?

12) the fact that US is disallowing Pakistan's authorities, its police, its army, its secret agencies or any other Pakistani person or entity to go into places where US or its personnel or its heavy duty military equipment is parked or housed ? Would US allow us to do the same in their country ?

13) US is telling Pakistan to roll back its nuclear program, while its going out of legal limits to help India build! their nuclear capability. US has been threatening Iran on its nuclear ambitions.

14) US told Pakistan to roll back its Iran-Pakistan-India gas pipeline. Did you see that ? Do you know that US wants to control that oil, so it can extort money from nations of this area against it ?

15) Do you know that this messy internal war that Pakistan seems to be wasting too much resources on, personnel on is a direct consequence of the drone attacks that are going on ? End the drone attacks tomorrow and Pakistan Taliban will end their offensive against Pakistani authorities tomorrow. Why hasn't the govt. 'spent' some of its thinking power to come up with better solutions ? Even world wars ended through negotiations, talks!

16) India being advised to give 'autonomy' to Indian occupied Kashmir ? Which favours US, since US will send its military there to establish permanent military base(s), from which to keep this entire region under its hegemony, and destabilized as a result

Aren't you turning a blind eye to what is going on inside and around Pakistan adnak sb. ?

You must be blind 'adnak' sb.

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Dec 2009 18:30 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

..and Mirza sb. I don't see you or the admin banning 'adnak' sb. or sending 'adnak' warning emails for calling others 'jangli janwar' . What the heck is this on the Moderators / Admin part ? I get emails on the slightest tremor in tolerance levels.

I get banned for abusing others. adnak sb. is free to call anyone 'jangli janwar' for as long as he wishes ?

Don't I see hints of biased treatment here ? This show all members on this forum are not equal in the eyes of the Moderators / Admin.

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Dec 2009 18:34 #
semirza
Moderator

Okay than I will ask Adnak kindly not to use this term 'jangli janwers’ as a vague expression, instead use terms specifically used as Terrorists or what ever.

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Dec 2009 18:43 #
waashee
Member

I think if we change the name,the SARYKIES and others like them who are giving the sugest to divide the PUNJAB into two provinces, can take a strong stand about the change of name of NWFP.I think Haji Adeel is gonna mad.

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Dec 2009 19:01 #
Anonymous

semirza

Sir, I got your message. I will not say 'Jangli Janwars' as 'Jangli Janwars' any more, after this comment.

Regards.

Posted 2 years ago on 29 Dec 2009 20:32 #
semirza
Moderator

@adnak
I highly appreciate your understanding.

Thanks

Posted 2 years ago on 30 Dec 2009 4:22 #
M.AKRAM KHAN NIAZI
Member

Names of Pukhtoon Khuwa and Afghania are conspiracy against Pukhtoons,By naming frontier provine with ethnocentric names enemies of Pukhtoons want to confine Puktoons in a very small place,and after that will say them now you have a province so don't go and live in other provinces,Pukhtoons are spread in all over Pakistan and are one of the main source of unity of Pakistan,no one is snatching frontier from Puktoons but by giving ethnocentric name others want to keep away pukhtoons from the rights on other provinces.

Posted 2 years ago on 30 Dec 2009 8:22 #

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