On what fundamentals the future of Pakistan be based upon. As a Secular State or as an Islamic State? Which one of the two would be the most suitable for Pakistanis to move forward?
PKPolitics Discuss » Current Issues
Pakistan and how it should be.........
(48 posts)-
Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jan 2010 6:31 #
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Shock
MembersIt is obviouse you are going to get two sets of responses, each one bashing others' system. My ideal system is well known to everyone as I want Pakistan to be a secular state. But I am willing to make some compromise if the other side do so too. Lets have a mix of both. Interest free economic system, but a secular constitution.
Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jan 2010 7:18 # -
I want Pakistan to be according to "1947 Pakistan legislation" at place where Minar-e-Pakistan is built today. Where Pakistani structure was Union based structure and provinces were given the status of State just like UAE, USA and recently EU is also becoming one. Where center should not have to much control on Pakistan and only three things should be under central control Military, Judiciary (I dont remember third)..
Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jan 2010 7:25 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
I want Pakistan to be ruled by Islam. I want Islami Nizam in Pakistan.
Pakistan should become a 'welfare state', especially for Muslims of Muslim UMMAH.
The overwhelming majority of Muslims of this nation aren't struggling day in and day out to abandon Islam. They are struggling to establish the rule of Islam in Pakistan.
This country was made in the name of Islam. Millions of Muslims of subcontinent struggled to make Pakistan. They did not struggle for Pakistan to bring about a 'secular' state. They struggled so they could get a separate country in which they could live their lives according to Islami Nizam.
When Iqbal proposed Pakistan in PML's conference, he didn't put forward the idea of a 'secular' Pakistan. He put forward the idea of a separate state where Muslims could live according to Islam. In-fact he put forward the idea of Islami Nizam.
In-fact there was no reason to have Pakistan if we didn't want Islam/Islami Nizam.
Iqbal not only proposed the idea of 'Pakistan'. Iqbal geared Muhammad Ali Jinnah for this task. Millions of Muslims struggled for Pakistan. I am not ready to believe millions of Muslims struggled for a 'secular' state, something that goes against the idea of Islam.
Pakistan has been secular to date. Pakistan has been ruled over by leaders who subscribe to 'secularism'. What have they given people of Pakistan to-date ? What they give to the people, the people of Pakistan have always! rejected. If people of Pakistan accepted secularism as a majority, people of Pakistan would not be struggling against those same leaders since Pakistan was created.
Since Islam is at odds with secularism, I say death! to secularism.
I accept that which Islam talks about. I reject everything else. Secularism falls in the 'everything else' list.
Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jan 2010 8:40 # -
Secularism was and is the code of our former/present masters, the crude and corrupt, cruel and criminal war-mongering white race.
I wholly second hariskhan's position above. Never mind whatever governments we've had so far. We are and remain the Islamic nation of Pakistan, and from that we will not budge.
Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jan 2010 9:26 # -
Shock
Members@Shaheen
Never mind, I take that back. This so called Islami Nizam has become a weapon to opress people. Since when were muslims diplomatic, they have always been waging wars, and they only see war as a solution to all options. But when it comes time to defend country against the religous extremist, they **** in their pants. Pakistan has failed due to this so called Islamic system. Whenever you mix religion with the affairs of the state, you are setting on a path to failure.
Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jan 2010 9:58 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
@Shock: You are saying it totally the other way around.
Pakistan has failed because 'Islami Nizam' was never! implemented in Pakistan, because Islam, its ways, its principles were ALWAYS! sidelined by those governing over Pakistan.
You are wrong because;
- constitution of Pakistan was never adhered to, never implemented, never excersized to-date
- there are loopholes in constitution of Pakistan which allow those governing to;
(a) circumvent Islam's set boundaries
(b) totally sideline Islam, its principles, its ways
(c) sideline INC (Islami Nazriyati Council)
(d) sideline Islam's family laws
(e) remove from jurisdiction of shariyat courts, ALL the critical parts of life of a citizen (social, financial, political, judicial matters)To date Islam has been sidelined in Pakistan.
You are way out of line on your statement(s).
Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jan 2010 10:16 # -
shriq
MemberJust wondering what a securlar system means for a country with 98% muslims living in it!!!!!!!!
Yahya, third one is currency!!
Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jan 2010 10:18 # -
Islamic State obviously because Islam has the best examples of running and ruling a state prosperously where even the non muslims have their due rights and like it is said above it was made in the name of Islam and after immense sacrifices of our forefathers so it should be based on it...
Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jan 2010 10:43 # -
@shriq
Thanks...
Rhyme:"Islamic State obviously because Islam has the best examples of running and ruling a state prosperously where even the non muslims have their due rights and like it is said above it was made in the name of Islam and after immense sacrifices of our forefathers so it should be based on it... "
Yes you are right that Islam had been proved the best example of running and ruling a state but you should also understand that Islamic system had been lucky to find great leaders in the past who had the quality of deliver the result to the people and also were very intelligent enough to get ride of conspiracies against them and their state. There was a law introduced by Hazrat Umer Farooq(RA) according to which Govt. was responsible for providing facilities that are required for every Muslim child to become responsible citizens like education, welfare funds etc. Today it is implemented all over the world's developed countries and It was introduced by second Muslim Calipha.
The reason of success of Islamic was that this system found great people to run the system but unfortunately today we dont have such a person to run the system. So for me it is not the system that matters but a person who is running the system that matters....We can be successful without Islamic system if we have right person to run that system and we can also be successful in Islamic system if we have right person to run the system...
Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jan 2010 11:12 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
@yahya87: I believe, we do have the people who can implement Islami Nizam. The question is not if they exist.
The question is, as it has always been since Pakistan's creation -> 'will the people choose them as their leaders' ?
Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jan 2010 11:15 # -
toamin
memberyahya
for success one needs both, that is correct method/process/system and correct implementation.
so I disagree with the idea that bad method/process/system but good implementation can result in good... no way.
we have people ruling over us with authority and discretion but no accountability on them.
we need a good system and good implementation
Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jan 2010 11:19 # -
Hariskhan:"I believe, we do have the people who can implement Islami Nizam. The question is not if they exist.
The question is, as it has always been since Pakistan's creation -> 'will the people choose them as their leaders' ? "
Implementing Islamic system is not the issue but running it effectively is the issue and They had a oppertunity of implementing Islamic system between 1978 till 1988 but they failed miserably and now secular forces have their opportunity...So question about people choose them or not should be discussed at the time of Zia-Ul-Haq time when they had a chance of running and delivering the result and today its to late to ask such question...and this is not just the situation of Pakistan it is also situation of Bangladesh when in 2001 election Jamat Govt. came with 2/3 majority in Bangladesh but they also failed to deliver the desired results which their people expected from a Govt. of 2/3 majority...
Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jan 2010 11:30 # -
@Yahyah87
It was actually this great islamic system that produced great leaders and caliphates like Umar (ra) who totally submitted themselves in implementing those islamic laws and as a result of which we got excellent example of a prosperous society.....later when there came a gap between the rulers and islam..it was here when we saw progressive society turning into a depressive one...
Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jan 2010 12:29 # -
What about cyrus the great of persian empire, what about Alexander the great and what about enchant Egypt and Indus valley civilization were they also the result of Islamic empire or Caliphate????
Like I said implementation is not the issue running it is the issue just tell me after Umer(RA) how many years this society remain prosper in the world???Quaid-e-Azam has already created Pakistan and we need a right person to run Pakistan....
Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jan 2010 12:42 # -
zeshaan
Memberyahya87
wrote,we need a right person to run Pakistan....
Bro,Maujuda door main too milna namumkin hee hai.choor uchakay,dakoo lutairay too buhat mill jaian gain.
Keen on trying.
Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jan 2010 14:57 # -
Shock
Members@hariskhan
Bhutto passed the constitution, which clearly said that no law will be passed in contradiction to Quran and the sunnah. Zia implemented all the laws. Nawaz gov't under the pressure from the Islamist further strenghthen that system. You certainly cannot blame the secular system for Pakistan's woos, because that system has never existed in Pakistan.
Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jan 2010 16:18 # -
netengr
blockedThere is no defined model as "Islamic state " in Quran and Sunnah .there are few islamic laws which should be applied and facilitate Muslims in a state where Muslims are living .
The term Muslim state and non muslim state is not used in Quran and Hadees .
Only Human or Jinn can be Muslim or non Muslim not the part of land or things .Running a country is like running a company ,business ,community etc and should be for people's benefits .
"Allah ki Hakmiyat " qayam kernay kay liyeh nahi kaha ,Allah ki Hakmiyat her cheez aur her zarray per hay bas us ko tasleem kerna hi Islam hay .
https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0ATRNQzczBrmVZGR3bjR4ZzdfMmRiazUzdGZ4&hl=en
Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jan 2010 17:28 # -
Allah ki Hakmiyat her cheez aur her zarray per hay bas us ko tasleem kerna hi Islam hay .
Why not. This is true or let me say the real truth is what netengr brother said as above.
Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jan 2010 18:23 # -
Shaheen-e-Iqbal:"Allah ki Hakmiyat her cheez aur her zarray per hay bas us ko tasleem kerna hi Islam hay .
Why not. This is true or let me say the real truth is what netengr brother said as above"
Yar mera bhai Allah ki hakmiyat say to kissi ko inkar nahi yahan per. Yahan tak k Islam ka pehla assol bhi yehi hai k har cheese ka malek Allah hai aur hum iss k rakhwaly hain aur sirf farq hai Islamic system main aur secular main....
In Islamic system the only difference is that everything belong to Allah and we are the trustees. So if all of us realize this thing in our daily life then finding right person to run the system is not very difficult for us because if we start feeling as trustees then we wont be involve in bribes, fraud, interest and other activity like those which are forbidden in Islam. The system itself become fixed and no need to have long marches or Taliban resistance required but unfortunately we have assumed our self that as this the Islamic system political Mullahs can run it better then others because they have studied Islam all their lives and they live simple life based on Islam instead of believing that we are ourself trustees and the owner is Allah and it is our job to return the favor given by Allah to us...
Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jan 2010 18:52 # -
shriq
Membernetengr,
Nice saying "Allah ki Hakmiyat her cheez aur her zarray per hay bas us ko tasleem kerna hi Islam hay"
Aur yeh zarre jo hamarai badan main hain in ko bhi Allah ki hakmiyyat tasleem karna chahiye. Ye bhi Khuda ke aage jhuk jayain.
Posted 2 years ago on 23 Jan 2010 18:54 # -
netengr
blockedSecular State or as an Islamic State?
What is an Islamic state according to Quran and Sunnah ? has rasool Allah SAW ever declared Madina Munawara or Arab as islamic state ? like roam or faris of that time ?
Quran says clearly to establish nanamz ,zakaat ,fasting and other rituals but where is mentioned establish "Islamic system " ,Few principals or Ahkaam cannot be called Islamic system or state .
I agree that a country where muslims are living in majority should respect muslim culture and facilitate muslim awam to practice the religion freely and easily and justice should be given to the people .
what is secular state and Muslim state please define ,
Posted 2 years ago on 24 Jan 2010 3:45 # -
sasherwani
MembersI want Pakistan to be a 'free country'. The people should be free to practise their religions and faith. Islam should be the official religion and the government should declare islamic holidays, promote religion and build only mosques. Also the government should provide its muslim citizens with the policies and procedures a government is required to in the Quran. But the minorities should be allowed to practise their faiths and build their infrastructure. Prostitution and gambling should be banned for all. There should be NO ban on any sort of art or media. There should be NO ban on any sort of dress code unless its a government school, college or organization that wants to promote a conservative culture.
Though democracy seems to be failing in Pakistan, yet we shouldnt abandon it and replace it with a system that failed even during the times of sahaaba. Let's try to fix the bugs in our current democratic system. Let's bring on people belonging to well-educated backgrounds belonging to ANY ethnicity, religion, last-name and let's support them if they are sincere.
I wouldn't call my system completely 'secular' but yes I would prefer anything over a Khilafat system that has never worked for anyone.Posted 2 years ago on 24 Jan 2010 5:13 # -
khanseena1
Member@sasherwani
You talk a lot of sense, I second everything you say.
Posted 2 years ago on 24 Jan 2010 5:33 # -
Asif
BlockedOnly quality Education should be the future & leave rest on the generations of the time to decide about their lives.
Posted 2 years ago on 24 Jan 2010 5:53 # -
There was no concept of secular and Islamic state before...Their was concept of Khalifa and kings and in Europe kings were the rulers with the of church while in Muslim countries their was Khalifa with the help of comity of wise people which are today called think tank and in this way system works and Khalifa was made on the basis of consensus between elder and wise people of the country so and these wise people were among the most senior and intelligent members of tribes that are scattered all over Arab and they were decided by tribes themselves...So Khalifa structure was one type of collective democracy where elder and wise among the tribe decide the future of whole tribe and this responsibility was given by tribes themselves...And today the democracy we are following is individual democracy where everyone is responsible for his own decision and decisions are not made on the basis of elder or wise of the tribe so according to me their is no fixed definition of Islamic system and Islam can fits any system even communism(If it allow religion to follow) and its all about realizing only one point that is what "netenger" said in his post that...
"Allah ki Hakmiyat " qayam kernay kay liyeh nahi kaha ,Allah ki Hakmiyat her cheez aur her zarray per hay bas us ko tasleem kerna hi Islam hay ."
The modern Islamic system definition was actually given by Moudodi who was inspired by the popularity of communism and gave his point of view related to Islam but this system failed miserably in Zia-Ul-Haq time and it was also tried in Bangladesh not once but twice but didnt work because Mullah started debate of Haram and Halal and stop working for welfare of the people so that is why the whole system failed...
Posted 2 years ago on 24 Jan 2010 7:03 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
@Shock: You already know how neither Islamic laws are being created, neither the law of the land is being implemented since Pakistan's creation.
Who are you trying to fool ?
You are only misguiding yourself by saying that. I can give you a million examples which prove you are wrong.
Don't waste our time playing worthless word games.
Posted 2 years ago on 24 Jan 2010 7:31 # -
sasherwani
Members@ khanseena,
Thanks.. as someone else here pointed out.. only humans and jinns can be 'Muslim'; not pieces of land!
Posted 2 years ago on 24 Jan 2010 7:37 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
@sasherwani: I'm sorry. You are wrong, when you talk against Khilafah or when you say the system that Sahaba gave, or created was filled with loopholes, problems, short-commings.
The system, the standards given by Sahaba' are the examples we have to follow. They give us EXCELLENT! ways of living our lives.
When ALLAH ALMIGHTY and Muhammad (SAW) told Muslims that Sahaba-e-Karam are like stars lighting up the path for you, they cannot be wrong.
YOU are WRONG!. You are going against that which ALLAH ALMIGHTY and Muhammad (SAW) have said. You can be wrong. ALLAH ALMIGHTY and Muhammad (SAW) can never be wrong.
It was only yesterday that I was conferencing with my friends, Pakistanis' who are living in the west, one in Canada, the other in Sweden. They were telling me how that which Sahaba-e-Karam said, that which Iqbal said is being proved true in/by western world today.
It was my friend in Sweden who told me among many other things, the fact that he found a Russian woman scientist, who was saying she had scientifically proven the fact that parents make the best choice for their child's mate.
Soon, INSHALLAH it will become common sense for the west, for ALL the world to move towards Islam.
Posted 2 years ago on 24 Jan 2010 7:37 # -
sasherwani
Members@ Haris Khan,
If writing fiction in CAPITALS made it a fact, if wrongly accusing someone of going against Allah & Rasool was a knock-out win, if getting vague and extremely irrelevant examples from scientists of Russia or Sultan Raahi's of Sweden, US and Canada were a winning strategy - then my friend you have won the debate!
Posted 2 years ago on 24 Jan 2010 7:50 # -
Even if we go by the Constitution of Pakistan 1973,we see the standard chosen to run the state is in accordance to Quran and Sunnah...
The Constitution of Islamic Republic of Pakistan of Pakistan 1073
Article: 31 Islamic way of life
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
31. Islamic way of life.-(1) Steps shall be taken to enable the Muslims of Pakistan, individually and collectively, to order their lives in accordance with the fundamental principles and basic concepts of Islam and to provide facilities whereby they may be enabled to understand the meaning of life according to the Holy Quran and Sunnah.
(2) The State shall endeavour, as respects the Muslims of Pakistan,-
(a) to make the teaching of the Holy Quran and Islamiat compulsory, to encourage and facilitate the learning of Arabic language and to secure correct and exact printing and publishing of the Holy Quran;
(b) to promote unity and the observance of the Islamic moral standards; and
(c) to secure the proper organisation of Zakat, 1[ushr,] auqaf and mosques
Posted 2 years ago on 24 Jan 2010 12:29 # -
""The Nordic countries are the best places to live, Jeffrey D. Sachs (advisor to Kofi Annan) of Columbia University told Newsweek. Norway is ranked number one in the world, Sweden two, Australia three, Canada four and the Netherlands five out of a total of 175 countries covered by the UNDP’s Welfare Index. The Nordic countries are thought to have the best balance between competition and co-operation, market economy and welfare.
In a "poverty index" of 17 selected OECD countries, Sweden is listed as the one with the least poverty. Norway is second last, the Netherlands third last, Finland fourth last and Denmark fifth last.
Welfare research is still in its infancy and it is difficult to compare various factors directly because conditions are so different throughout the world. According to Sachs, however, the world would do well to be more open to Nordic ideas. The Nordic countries prioritise training, education and research, have a system of welfare for all based on a dynamic private sector and are inclusive""
Source: http://www.norden.org/en/news-and-events/news/nordic-countries-best-at-welfarePakistan must be a welfare state and in order that Pakistan is also transformed into a Welfare State, we must learn from the experiences of these countries to see which measures could well be adopted, in conjuction with our own cultural values, to make this country a welfare state. A political ‘will’ and ‘vision’ is something which is needed to be in the minds of our politicians and public to make it happen.
Posted 2 years ago on 24 Jan 2010 13:15 # -
toamin
memberRhyMe,
Regarding:
Steps shall be taken to enable the Muslims of Pakistan, individually and collectively, to order their lives in accordance with the fundamental principles and basic concepts of Islam.
This is just deception and a patch on top of 1935 british act of government.
They are saying Steps shall be taken... who will take the steps? Stooges brought in through back door steps thru secret deals are installed to protect the interests of their guarantors, they are not for steps to enable...
Just look at hue & cry of asma jhangir on reference to 62-f..she is already going crazy..
Posted 2 years ago on 24 Jan 2010 13:19 # -
Asif
BlockedOnly one step is needed for the time being to bring fresh blood into the mainstream politics.
A single well articulated lecture on single word "Iqra" (read, understan, implement & spread) all over the country in local language by local people.
"Iqra" is a tool, teach the people how to use this tool instead of reserving it only for a handful number of people & making everybody else handicaped to these handful guys.
Posted 2 years ago on 24 Jan 2010 14:04 # -
future of Pakistan does not lies in the hands of BB,Baba or Mulla or Ghunda parties .
i m 200% sure ,it lies in a new fresh party with fresher ideas to take Pakistan ,out of this crisis ,we are in for the past 50 years .
Posted 2 years ago on 25 Jan 2010 6:43 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
@sasherwani: There is no debate. This! is a discussion. The words I write in capital are for 'exclamation'.
Posted 2 years ago on 25 Jan 2010 11:32 # -
sasherwani
MembersHaris,
You have mastered the 'Art of Irrelativity' :)
Your replies are never relevant to the original posts.
1. debate discussions = potatoes potAtoes
2. Caps comment was obviously not for god's names but other words you were again irrelevantly emphasizing.Posted 2 years ago on 25 Jan 2010 11:57 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
@Shock: When the political, social, financial, judicial matters of this state do not conform to Islam's standards, how can you claim that this state has functioned according to Islam to-date ?
In-fact Pakistan is moving in the direction which is totally! opposite to Islam.
Bhutto sb. passed constitution in 1973 that was accepted with consensus. However, much work remains. Since his time, many laws have been created that go against Islam. More than 20.
In-fact Bhutto sb.'s own rule turned out to be one which looked after the interests of the rich, rather than interests of the common man of Pakistan, did it not ?
(1) Where do you see Islam's political, judicial, financial, social system in Pakistan today ?
(2) This recent episode of NRO, wasn't this law against Islam's ways, principles, teachings ?
If the parliament had approved it, that would have meant that Pakistan would have had a law that went against Islam. What was to stop Pakistan's parliament from doing it ?
Which ultimately shows us that Pakistan's parliament has the ability to make laws that go against Islam, which ALLAH ALMIGHTY chose for Muslims.
(3) The help that Musharraf extended to US against Afghanistan, that help which to-date is being extended unconditionally by Pakistan to US, was that in accordance with Islam ? Helping a non-Muslim state fight war against other Muslims ?
(4) Has there ever! been a non-manipulated justice system in Pakistan since Pakistan's creation ?
(5) Were the laws devised in the 1973 constitution ever adhered to, by those who were given the responsibility to run Pakistan ?
(6) INC (Islami Nazriyati Council) has been putting forward proposals for many years now. Has any person elected to public office in Pakistan ever! listened to them ? According to head of INC, INC has put forward over 20,000 proposals. Only 100 of them were entertained since INC's creation
(7) Where is the Zakat system ?
(8) Why does Pakistan impose taxes on income rather than impose taxes on savings, which is what Islam says, doesn't it ?
(9) If this state conformed to Islam's teachings, ways, principles, standards, do you think it would have been possible for 8000 people of Pakistan to embezzle Rs. 1065 billion (Rs. 1+ trillion) from Pakistan, do you think it would have been possible for those running Pakistan to put all the tax money, all the Zakat money in their own personal pockets ?
Zia-ul-Haq mutilated that constitution, sidelined it. It was Zia-ul-Haq who removed critical affairs of a citizen's life from jurisdiction of 'Shariyat Courts'. It was Zia-ul-Haq who sidelined, constitution of Pakistan, who sidelined Islam to prolong his reign.
What did Nawaz Sharif do to strengthen the system ? Did he bring about;
(a) impartial, across the board, FAST!, non-discriminatory justice system ?
(b) standardized education system
(c) ensured basic necessities of life to people of Pakistan ?
(d) stop corruption ? punish those who spread corruption ?
(e) Spend ALL! of Pakistan's money on the people of Pakistan, for their welfare ?
(f) moved to abandon interest based banking system, business ?
(g) move Pakistan towards self reliance ?
(h) built dams for Pakistan ?
(i) Wasn't it Nawaz Sharif, his party, his allies, who put taxpayer money in their own pockets ? Spent that money on their own personal businesses, or businesses of their colleagues, their relatives, their acquaintances ?
In-fact it was noted about Nawaz Sharif that he used to ease off laws of Pakistan when it suited his personal business interests, while letting them run for others. has this not happened multiple times ?
I can blame secular system, because the leaders Pakistan has had thus far have always! pushed secular way of life.
ALL! the military dictators (30+ years of rule) and politicians (25+ years of rule), who have had the privilege of running Pakistan's federal Govt. pushed for secular standards.
It was the people of this nation who rejected their methods, their decisions, their actions, the laws they made.
=> Islamic literature is being removed from text books
=> Western, Indian social values, culture is being promoted within Pakistan=> No matter how you look at Pakistan, be it from political, financial, judicial or social point of view, Pakistan is a carbon copy of west rather than being a copy of Islam
I don't know how you claim Islam has ruled over Pakistan.
Posted 2 years ago on 25 Jan 2010 12:21 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
@sasherwani: Debate is an non-constructive, endless, worthless, pointless bickering of multiple people, with no hope of ever getting a result, no output.
Discussion is constructive way of talking about a problem with constructive output, constructive end result.
I already stated the fact that I use CAPS for 'exclamation'. I will remove the later comment to avoid confusion.
Posted 2 years ago on 25 Jan 2010 12:26 # -
@Salam
exactly these puppets are not here to enable any of those steps…and the purpose to remind that part of the constitution to the secularists is that even if they think Islamic laws at the time of Prophet(PBUH) and later during Caliphate era,are impossible to apply in today’s world as according to them they don’t meet the challenges of modern times,should then only revisit this article 31 of the Constitution on which our present form of Government i.e “Democracy” is based…if ppl find it hard to implement those so called “ancient(old fashioned) Islamic laws then following those principles that has been added in this setup for running a state,would be enough for them because it’s the same thing if they look a little deep…its just a matter of putting this law in to practise
As for Asma Jahangir,I was really not surprised to hear her opinion on SC detail verdict,I already knew how ppl like her were going to respond because im well aware on whose agenda she is working…In past,we have seen such opposition…in future too u wouldn’t see just everyone showing agreement on all the verdicts of SC so don’t take her that seriously…
Posted 2 years ago on 25 Jan 2010 12:27 # -
Haris Khan
Yes, Pakistan may be the carbon copy of the west as we may be able to compare it with some systems, in the present times.
Please educate if you don’t mind, that with which country, in present times (50+ Islamic countries), may we compare Pakistan to prove that it is not a copy of Islam, especially when it is a declared Islamic country and no law here can be made against Quran & Sunnah?
Posted 2 years ago on 25 Jan 2010 12:40 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
@adnak: Unfortunately, none at the moment.
No Muslim state is functioning according to Islam's ways, as far as my knowledge goes. In-fact no Muslim state has functioned that way since Muslim UMMAH was disintegrated in 1924.
But that doesn't mean Pakistan can't function if 'Islami Nizam' is implemented within Pakistan. In contrast, Pakistan would be able to rival major super powers present in this world, if Islami Nizam is implemented in this world.
Islami Nizam will give the safety, security, peace, prosperity to the common man, which Pakistan hasn't had since it was created.
Posted 2 years ago on 25 Jan 2010 12:42 # -
toamin
memberRhyme,
Pakistan's constitutions have been based on British India Act of 1935 with little cosmetic changes here & there.
Even 1973 constitution, though seemingly major change, but has same spirit of 1935 Act.
So was British ruling sub-continent with Islamic Constitution or did they pass an Islamic Act in their parliament?
Unfortunately only few can realize this complicated deception.
Posted 2 years ago on 25 Jan 2010 12:55 # -
Haris Khan
Thanks for educating. But the obvious question could be that why no Muslim state is functioning according to Islam's ways despite claiming to be a Muslim state? And what can make it happen in reality? Is there any chance for that?
Posted 2 years ago on 25 Jan 2010 12:57 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
It was noted by a senior retired judge that only 4 laws were made or processed within the entire! span of the year 2009.
For an army of ministers who took Rs. 35 lacs of salary + benefits for each month, all throughout the year, plus all the corruption that they did, only making 4 laws in an entire year, should tell you how much work they did against the salaries/benefits they drew.
Pakistan's Senate gave similar output.
Posted 2 years ago on 25 Jan 2010 13:00 # -
Salam so shall we have to wait for someone to apply Khilafat of Umar(ra) at once rather than taking tiny little steps towards the revival of Khilafat by expecting the present rulers to follow atleast what is included in the constitution about the way of governance which should be in accordance to Quran and Sunnah....which way should we go?
Posted 2 years ago on 25 Jan 2010 13:08 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
@adnak: Muslims have had to bear a lot of bloodshed in the last 400 years. Fought wars with colonial powers. Organized resistance movements in 18th century. Struggled to acquire freedom in 19th century.
When the British came/ruled over subcontinent, Muslim scholars were put in-front of canons and those cannons would be fired.
There was immense bloodshed in wars in 18th century.
Towards the end of the 18th and beginning of 19th century Muslims were called towards education by Sir Syed Ahmad Khan.
In the 19th century, there was bloodshed again, as many Muslim states struggled to achieve their liberty from foreign occupiers.
After achieving liberty Muslims didn't gain freedom as they'd hoped. The British or French or other colonial/foreign occupiers left behind their legacy in shape of feudal lords, families within Muslim land who were loyal to them. They were gifted with large quantity of land and resources. The goal ? To keep these Muslim 'nation states' a slave of the same colonial/foreign occupiers from whom they had just acquired liberty. To implement a system whereby the populace of these nation states would remain dependent on the pittance thrown to them by their colonial/Anglo-American masters.
If you look at Pakistan alone, Pakistan has had to bear 3+ wars since its creation. It lost a lot! of its human capital in those wars.
It has taken time for Muslims to recoup, to get back on their feet, to come out of this invisible system of slavery.
It has taken time for Muslims to get back on their feet, because they almost lost everything, as they lost most of their scholars, those who were left behind weren't treated as they should have been.
To this day, every scientist, every intellectual, every asset of the state is rejected by the state, rather than facilitated.
Today, the generation that is coming up in Pakistan, is in the process of throwing!! away!! the 'tauq' (in urdu) of slavery. Today, as the middle class in this nation builds itself, removes its dependence on the west, struggling for betterment, it is slowly but surely moving back towards Islam's given way of life.
The struggle is on. Its taking time, but its on.
Recently you have seen this nation;
(1) reinstate the representative of highest court in Pakistan. That means, this generation of Pakistanis' have opted for rule of law, which was never! present in Pakistan since its creation. Without rule of law, nations move towards their death
(2), reject! the idea of foreign aid, when 90+ % of this nation rejected the Kerry Lugar Aid Act. Which means this nation has decided, they will throw away the idea of 'dependency' on foreign pittance
These are two significant steps, in! the right direction.
Posted 2 years ago on 25 Jan 2010 13:10 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
Musharraf's enlightened moderation;
(1) ditched Pakistan into $15 billion of debt hole
(2) destroyed self respect of Pakistani people in international arena
(3) nearly gave up Kashmir cause
(4) went totally opposite to the 7 point agenda he put forward
(5) went against Islam, its ways, more than his predecessors
(6) Gave free access to Pakistan's roads, air space, military bases to US/Nato
(7) Started military operations against his own people for pittance from USThe current Govt. is digging that hole even further, taking that debt level to $50 billion. And if Pak Govt. continued to operate in the same fashion, it will accumulate a debt of about $75 billion by the end of this year i.e., 2010.
The people holding the responsibility to build Pakistan are destroying Pakistan through their actions, decisions, practices, ways of going about matters.
The EurAsia region, which by some people's estimates holds the 3/4 natural resources of the entire world is being destroyed, is being impoverished by remnants of colonial/foreign powers to further their agenda. Pakistan is one part of this important region of the world.
There is a continuous struggle inside Pakistan and around its borders. INSHALLAH Muslims will prevail in the end.
Posted 2 years ago on 25 Jan 2010 13:29 #
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