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Pakistan economy among top in the world for doing business: WB

(93 posts)
  1. Pakistan among top for doing business: WB

    KARACHI: Pakistan has been ranked as one of the top favourable economies in the world, states “Doing Business 2008”, a recent report released by the World Bank.

    According to the report, Pakistan ranks second compared to other South Asian countries, based on certain economic indicators such as ease of doing business, dealing with licences and protecting investors as identified by the analysts.

    The following countries are Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and Nepal. Pakistan has a comparatively better business environment in terms of paying taxes and registration of assets, the report adds.

    The report evaluates business activities based on regulations affecting the 10 stages of a business life, which are starting a business, dealing with licences, employing workers, registering property, getting credit, protecting investors, paying taxes, trading across borders, enforcing contracts and closing a business.

    It is pertinent to note that in the overall global rating of 178 countries, Pakistan is rated 76th, as compared to India at 120. With Pakistan’s fast-paced IT industry, it is emerging as a powerhouse in the South Asian region due to the government’s friendly policies.

    These include 100 per cent foreign equity ownership, 100 per cent repatriation of profits for foreign investors and tax exemption for the sector till 2013.

    The availability of a large pool of English-proficient skilled professionals, affordable connectivity rates, competitive infrastructure and operational costs are some of the other benefits that Pakistan enjoys. Due to the same, an increasing number of foreign IT companies prefer Pakistan for their outsourcing operations and setting up development centres.

    “Doing Business 2008” is the fifth in a series of annual reports that evaluates the regulations which directly impact economic growth, provides objective measures of business regulations and their enforcement. The data is collected across 178 countries and selected cities at the sub-national and regional level.

    http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=109835

    Posted 4 years ago on 05 May 2008 20:16 #
  2. lol yeah business really flourishes in 12 hours of load shedding let me collect my life savings and invest in pakistan

    Posted 4 years ago on 05 May 2008 20:57 #
  3. I guess World Bank (and all other financial organizations with the same view) must be lying just to support Musharraf.

    You shouldve invested in Pakistan a long time ago.

    Businesses and investors are making loads of money.

    Maybe not, maybe you are smarter than the foreigners investing billions in Pakistan every year.

    Posted 4 years ago on 05 May 2008 21:26 #
  4. Londonistan
    Member

    Secular_pakistan:

    muahahahhahahahahhaha...................

    Tax reform: most important economic task

    From DAWN of April 28, 2008

    By Yousuf Nazar

    “ Pakistan’s fiscal crisis is deep and cannot be easily resolved. Taxes are insufficient for debt service and defence. If the tax to GDP ratio does not increase significantly, Pakistan can not be governed effectively, essential public services can not be delivered and high inflation is inevitable. Reform of tax administration is the single most important economic task for the government.”

    [Quote from Report of General Musharraf’s June 2000 Task Force on Reform of Tax Administration]

    If the big business and landed aristocracy could be convinced that by eliminating the budget deficits, they stand a good chance of trebling the value of their property and stock holdings, they might start paying taxes. But what might persuade them to do that?

    When President Bill Clinton took over in 1992, the US economy was in recession and government finances were in bad shape. The fiscal deficit had hit a record level of almost $300 billion (or 4.7 per cent of the GDP), that is, more than double its $145 billion-level in 1987. He introduced his historic deficit-reduction budget in 1993, worked to reduce the deficit every year and within a matter of six years, was able to turn it into a surplus of nearly $40 billion. Under his leadership, the US economy grew at a rate of more than 4% in the late nineties compared to 2.7% average during 1987-1992 period. Inflation dropped to an average of less than 2 per cent compared to over 4 per cent annual average period during 1987-1992, and the stock market skyrocketed and trebled in value by 1998 from its depressed levels in 1992.

    There were a host of factors that helped the US at the time but one lesson is unmistakably clear: deficit reduction can translate into huge benefits for the entire economy; for consumers, businesses, and property owners. And this is why the businesses and agriculturists should pay serious attention to the deficit and demand that the government reduce it to less than 2% of the GDP as soon as possible.The number one reason of persistent budget deficits is the low tax-to-GDP ratio, which is around 10% compared to average of 18% for the developing countries. It may sound like a paradox but if these businesses and agriculturists start paying taxes and help cut the deficit, they will be the greatest beneficiaries of not only lower inflation and interest rates, but more significantly of the rise in value of their assets that will follow. Historically, taxation has been treated as a political patronage tool in Pakistan or the public debate has focused on the administrative aspects.

    But the current crisis demands that a political economy approach be adopted to expand the revenue base and cut budget deficits. The stakeholders need to appreciate that the current system is weakening the state, is regressive, inflationary, and unable to mobilise the resources needed to enable the state to perform its core functions of maintaining law and order and developing the infrastructure. In other words, it is in the interest of the large stakeholders that comprehensive tax reforms are introduced.The history of tax reform around the world provides more than ample evidence that the single most important ingredient for effective tax administration is clear recognition at the highest levels of politics of the importance of the task and the willingness to support good administrative practices even if political friends are hurt in the short term. The institutionalization of corruption, the extent of criminalization of politics and standards of public morality are generally regarded as significant factors upon which the extent and nature of feasible tax administration reform depend. Public acceptance is a necessary condition for a tax system to work successfully. If the taxpayers have doubts about either the fairness of the system or the legitimacy of government spending, they may not cooperate to make a reform programme work. Pakistan has generally treated tax reform as an administrative issue with the most commonly heard refrain being, ‘it is only a matter of implementation.’ Wrong!

    Pakistan has not made any significant progress in reforming its tax administration during the past decade. Its ministers and bureaucrats have been misleading public opinion by just quoting numbers of absolute growth in tax revenues which is meaningless if not adjusted for inflation and size of the economy. A recent study, “Paying Taxes 2008” published jointly by the World Bank and PricewaterhouseCoopers (one of the biggest accounting firms in the world), compares the ease of paying taxes in 178 countries around the world. The study is subject to a system of ranking based on three indicators; namely, the number of tax payments, the number of hours to comply with the company’s tax obligations, and the Total Tax Rate (TTR). Pakistan’s rankings are as follows:

    Ease of paying taxes (overall rank) 146

    Number of tax payments 138

    Time to comply 156

    Total tax rate 80

    These rankings point to not just an urgent need to introduce tax reforms but also to Pakistan’s failure to address what was described as the single most important economic task for the government in June 2000. But designing tax reforms can not be left to just bureaucrats and accountants. The political leadership must get the help of economists and public finance professionals. Turkey got help from external professionals of a World Bank study group and Egypt utilised the services of the experts from the Organisation Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD).

    Pakistan’s current tax structure is anti-development, anti-growth and anti-poor. It discourages investment in the real sectors, particularly manufacturing. It passes on most of the ultimate burden of the taxes to middle and lower income classes and is one of the reasons for persistently higher inflation rate compared to other Asian countries. While the salaried class pays more than Rs.14 billion in taxes, textile barons and stock brokers combined pay less than that. The indirect taxes currently account for 62% of the total revenues. The largest among the indirect taxes is the general sales tax (GST) which accounts for 39% of the total tax collections. Such indirect taxes are regressive, inflationary, and hurt consumer spending which is a key driver of economic growth.

    Many countries have benefited from the experience of East Asian countries and followed their policies. In Bolivia, a highly complicated tax system existed until 1985 with around 400 taxes and it had one of the highest rates of tax evasion in the Western hemisphere. The Tax Reform Law of 1985 repealed all the previous taxes and replaced them with seven new taxes. More recently, Turkey and Egypt have made notable progress in introducing and implementing tax reforms. Some key common features of successful reform programmes have been as follows:

    The overall numbers of taxes are reduced to a dozen or less.
    Maximum rates are slashed as high rates have historically encouraged tax evasion.
    Rebates, exemptions and special treatments are eliminated or reduced to a few.
    Tax administration is simplified using technology.
    High tax rates can force companies into the informal sector. In the Democratic Republic of Congo, with taxes twice as high as the commercial profit for a company with a profit margin of 20%, businesses have a strong incentive to evade taxes. Indeed, half the country’s manufacturing activity is in the informal sector. Even countries with a smaller informal sector can gain from this strategy. Greece saw its corporate tax revenue grow from 4% of GDP to 5% after reducing the corporate tax rate in 2005. Egypt saw the number of complying taxpayers increase by 47% to 2.5 million in just one year after reducing both corporate and personal income tax rates in 2005. Turkey reduced the top rate for corporate income tax from 30% in 2005 to 20% in 2006 and introduced a new corporate tax code. Turkey also reduced the tax on interest from 18% to 15% in 2006 and simplified other taxes, such as the property tax and the tax on cheque transactions.

    Pakistan’s tax regime resembles, in general, to more that of Latin America countries where indirect taxes, and in particular sales tax, occupies a relatively higher share within the overall tax. Pakistan indirect tax to GDP ratio is around 6 per cent, and its direct tax to GDP ratio is 4 per cent and less than 2 per cent if withholding taxes are excluded. The following data contains a comparison of the structure of direct and indirect taxes between East Asia and Latin America over selected periods during 1975-2002.

    Comparison of Sales Tax in East Asia and Latin America

    (as percentage of GDP)

    1975-78 1985-88 1997-2002

    East Asia 2.0 2.3 2.9

    Latin America 2.5 3.6 5.6

    Comparison of Tax on income and capital gains in East Asia and Latin America (as percentage of GDP)
    1975-78 1985-88 1997-2002

    East Asia 5.7 6.0 6.9

    Latin America 5.0 4.1 3.9

    Source: IMF Government Finance Statistics, and International Financial Statistics

    East Asia countries (even if exclude China and India) have enjoyed high growth rates for decades compared to Latin American countries. They grew at an annual average rate of 5.25 per cent during the last twenty years, which is almost double the average growth rate for Latin America. Pakistan’s political, agriculture, and industry leaders should ask themselves: which taxation and growth model they want to follow?

    Source: http://www.yousufnazar.com/?p=519

    Posted 4 years ago on 05 May 2008 21:38 #
  5. do their factories work on pixie dust because I am pretty sure there is a big electricity shortage in the country

    Posted 4 years ago on 05 May 2008 21:39 #
  6. despite the electricity shortage and all the turmoil and the global recession, the economy is really sound. lets see what the new govt. does now. i think we should have a thread dedicated to economy on pkpolitics

    Posted 4 years ago on 06 May 2008 5:51 #
  7. Malaysian Maybank acquires 15% strategic stake in MCB

    LAHORE (May 06 2008): Malaysia\'s largest financial institution, Malayan Banking Bhd (Maybank), signed an agreement with Nishat Group to acquire upto 20 percent of ordinary shares in MCB Bank Limited.

    As part of the transaction, Maybank will acquire from Mian Mansha\'s Nishat Group an immediate 15 percent stake at a purchase price per share of PKR 470 subject to necessary approvals with a right to increase its stake to 20 percent after one year.

    The purchase price of PKR 44.29 billion (US $680 million) is based on 11 percent premium of the average of last 30 days trading price of MCB Bank, representing 5.4 times MCB\'s book value. The existing shares sellers are: MCB Pension Fund 8.05 percent; Adamjee Insurance Company under 2 percent; Nishat Mills Employees Provident Fund 1.5 percent; and 2.5 percent from Mansha family ie Mian Umer Mansha; Mian Hasan Mansha and Muhammad Saleem. A further five percent can be acquired by Maybank from three individual investors.

    A press release issued in Kuala Lumpur says: \"MCB Bank Limited and Maybank are pleased to announce the signing of agreements today, whereby Maybank will acquire up to 20% of the ordinary shares in MCB Bank Limited (\"MCB\" or the \"Bank\") from Nishat Group.

    The agreement underlines MCB commitment to enter the next phase of growth by partnering with a leading financial services group thereby expanding its product offering and improving efficiency to better serve its customers. Maybank is the ideal strategic partner given its emerging markets heritage and strong consumer and Islamic banking franchise.

    For Maybank, the acquisition is in-line with its strategy, as Malaysia\'s financial services leader in the region, to build its presence in key growth markets across the region. The transaction represents the largest Foreign Direct Investment into Pakistan in 2008 and the largest ever private sector cross border transaction in Pakistan.

    As part of the transaction Maybank will acquire from Nishat Group an immediate 15% stake in the Bank for a purchase price per share of PKR470, subject to necessary approvals. Maybank has the right to increase its stake to 20% after one year.

    Maybank is largest bank in Malaysia by assets and by market capitalization. Maybank has total assets of PKR 5,394 billion (US $83 billion), equivalent to a market share of approximately 23% of all commercial banks in Malaysia as of December 31, 2007. The Bank has a customer base of approximately 8.1 million, and a nation-wide distribution network of 450 branches and 2,478 ATMs as of December 31, 2007.

    To facilitate close strategic cooperation, Maybank will have the right over time to appoint two Directors to represent its interest on the Board of MCB and will participate in some of the key management committees.

    Chairman of MCB and Nishat Group, Mian Mohammad Mansha, said, \"We are extremely delighted to have Maybank, the premier bank and financial group in Malaysia, as our strategic partner in MCB. We are confident that the experience and technical services that Maybank will be able to provide to MCB will further strengthen the Bank as it moves forward to affirm its leading position in the Pakistan banking sector. In particular, we look forward to the expertise that Maybank will be able to provide in consumer and Islamic banking, two of the faster growing segments in the market.\"

    Commenting on the transaction, the President of MCB, Atif Bajwa, said, \"The business cooperation agreement with Maybank will further strengthen our position to capitalise on the growth opportunities in the Pakistan market. We will be able to expand the services we offer our customers and increase efficiencies across our organisation by sharing our partner\'s technical expertise in product development and best business practices.

    We have identified multiple areas of knowledge transfer which will enhance our existing business strategy, particularly in consumer banking, SME banking and Islamic banking. We are excited by the opportunities that our partnership with Maybank opens up for MCB to diversify our earnings streams both domestically and internationally.\"

    Maybank\'s Chairman, Tan Sri Mohamed Basir Ahmad, said, \"This acquisition, like our recent announcement on BII, will align Maybank with a highly attractive franchise in a high growth and under-penetrated banking market with a large population.

    MCB enjoys a leading position in the Pakistan financial sector where it has proven its performance and profitability through consistently high returns on equity and strong net interest margins supported by a low cost funding base.\"

    Maybank\'s President and Chief Executive Officer, Dato Sri Abdul Wahid Omar added, \"MCB is well-regarded for its established nation-wide distribution platform, more innovative, products and respected foreign-trained management team. We are excited about MCB\'s further growth potential with Maybank alongside as exclusive foreign commercial bank strategic partner.\"

    Copyright Business Recorder, 2008

    http://www.brecorder.com/index.php?id=733553&currPageNo=1&query=&search=&term=&supDate=

    Posted 4 years ago on 06 May 2008 5:53 #
  8. AccountabilityAdvocate
    Member

    @secular_pakistan

    It is the best country for crooks and criminals; and for the she-males of the establishment!

    Posted 4 years ago on 06 May 2008 15:16 #
  9. Why dont you leave then?

    Oh wait, you are probably already living in the US.

    Posted 4 years ago on 06 May 2008 17:33 #
  10. Cement exports rise to record six million tons
    RIZWAN BHATTI
    KARACHI (May 06 2008): The cement sector has marked another record of exports, which showed a healthy growth of 142 percent to the level of around 6 million tons due to rising international demand for the commodity, industry sources said. They said that it is expected that by the end of the current fiscal year cement exports would exceed 7 million tons.

    Copyright Business Recorder, 2008

    http://www.brecorder.com/index.php?id=733556&currPageNo=1&query=&search=&term=&supDate=

    Posted 4 years ago on 06 May 2008 17:34 #
  11. Londonistan
    Member

    Without Electricity without running factories? wow thats an acheivement...lol

    Posted 4 years ago on 06 May 2008 21:25 #
  12. AccountabilityAdvocate
    Member

    @secular_pakistan

    Hope you develop independent and \"secular\" opinion rather than keep citing fictitious figures and reports--which have already been disowned and contradicted by the Statistics Division and the State Bank of Pakistan. You seem to be a product of those MP1 and MP2 scales.

    Now stop being a mouthpiece of ShortCut Aziz who used to brag that the number of (imported rather than domestically-produced) mobile phones in the country was an indicator of its development! Instead, start questioning the defence budget of one of the largest armies in the world whose only achievement has been losing all wars--foreign and domestic!

    Posted 4 years ago on 07 May 2008 1:15 #
  13. FUTURE
    Member

    @ Accountability.....do some accountin yourself first b4 you run your gas-less mouth-piece then we can have a chat and we will teach you all about it!!! Then you will know what to account for!!!

    FUTURE looks accountable !!! ;-)

    Posted 4 years ago on 07 May 2008 2:11 #
  14. AccountabilityAdvocate
    Member

    QFUTURE

    Your future is behind you! Enjoy...

    Posted 4 years ago on 07 May 2008 2:41 #
  15. FUTURE
    Member

    Most of these anti-pakistan loudmouths have already abandoned our gr8 nation and are living like third-rate citizens abroad!!! Pretending very hard that they are western -- maybe thats why they are frustrated because obviously they are not accepted as westernized!!! No self-respect watsoever!!! ;-)

    FUTURE looks respectable!!! ;-)

    Posted 4 years ago on 07 May 2008 2:46 #
  16. FUTURE
    Member

    @accountable
    That was a very educated remark! Did you learn that while doing your phd!?!?!? ;-)

    FUTURE looks inevitable!!!! ;-)

    Posted 4 years ago on 07 May 2008 2:48 #
  17. AccountabilityAdvocate
    Member

    @FUTURE

    Jaisa moon waisi chupear!

    Posted 4 years ago on 07 May 2008 2:49 #
  18. FUTURE
    Member

    @Accountable.
    Again thnx for proving my point and showing us your level of education and cultivated upbringing!!!

    FUTURE looks cultivated!!! ;-)

    Posted 4 years ago on 07 May 2008 2:53 #
  19. AccountabilityAdvocate
    Member

    @FUTURE

    You need irrigation first!

    Posted 4 years ago on 07 May 2008 2:56 #
  20. FUTURE
    Member

    ALWAYS irrigated, NEVER irritated
    thats why
    FUTURE is well cultivated!
    so dwell on it
    cause for you it might be complicated
    and I know
    you didnt anticipate it!!!

    FUTURE looks stable and balanced!!! ;-)

    Posted 4 years ago on 07 May 2008 3:09 #
  21. AccountabilityAdvocate
    Member

    @FUTURE
    Don\'t forget who irrigated you!

    Posted 4 years ago on 07 May 2008 3:13 #
  22. FUTURE
    Member

    it is God Alone
    who irrigates me,
    that why I always thank He
    who is the Sustainer
    and provides Security,
    it is He who feeds me,
    with ignorance all around
    He educates me,
    when darkness is everywhere
    He Guides me,
    with enemies all around
    He Protects me,

    He it is
    who irrigates me,
    when I am sick
    He cures me,
    when I fall
    He revives me,
    when I fail
    He succeeds me,
    when I make mistakes
    He forgives me.

    He it is
    who irrigates me,
    He is my everything
    so try thee,
    to take me out
    and suffer will thee,
    humiliated and rejected
    you are constantly,
    blind, deaf and frustrated
    so will you not see?

    it is HE ALONE
    who irrigates me,
    so listen
    and let me educate thee
    give up your nonsense
    and conspiracy
    for NEVER will you have
    anything on me!

    IT IS GOD WHO IRRIGATES ME!!!

    FUTURE looks ordained!!! ;-)

    Posted 4 years ago on 07 May 2008 4:15 #
  23. AccountabilityAdvocate
    Member

    FUTURE was irrigated in the laps of Mansoohra!

    Posted 4 years ago on 07 May 2008 4:33 #
  24. FUTURE
    Member

    oh poor soul
    listen to me,
    and reveal not
    your family history,
    defeated and disgraced
    is all you will be,
    so save yourself
    by listening to me!!!

    FUTURE looks graceful!!! ;-)

    Posted 4 years ago on 07 May 2008 4:57 #
  25. AccountabilityAdvocate
    Member

    @FUTURE

    File a graceful lawsuit against your masters!

    Posted 4 years ago on 07 May 2008 5:02 #
  26. FUTURE
    Member

    Master is ONLY ONE
    so no need for the last s,
    He cherishes me
    and grants me the Best,
    education, happiness
    wealth and success
    so no need for a cheap lawsuit
    to increse my progress!!!

    FUTURE looks progressive!!! ;-)

    Posted 4 years ago on 07 May 2008 6:33 #
  27. AccountabilityAdvocate
    Member

    FUtTURE looks child abused!

    Posted 4 years ago on 07 May 2008 13:42 #
  28. LOL

    Posted 4 years ago on 07 May 2008 13:48 #
  29. Accountability,

    Show me where the figures were disputed by the State Bank? Or the FBR? or any credible intl. financial organization?

    It was just that big mouth useless PMLN finance minister Ishaq Dar, and, then he had to say Finance Minsitry figures are more credible than State Bank figures because no one would believe him (in the business community). Also, the business community reacted very negatively, they said he painted such a negative picture of the economy, but, so far has failed to mention what he will do or what his plans are. Also, this report in Business Recorder termed his white paper or whatever it was called FINANCIAL ENGINEERING:

    http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/pmln-finance-minister-ishaq-dar-committing-financial-engineering?replies=1

    Mobile phone use or purchase represents consumption. Consumption (which has grown around 150% since 1999) is a component of the economy and an indicator of development.

    Imports and exports are also accounted for in the economic output. The imports are subtracted from all the other components of the economy.

    I dont exactly know what that argument was supposed to mean.

    But, I am worried about the economy now. Mr. Dar doesnt seem to be doing much. He is busy with the judges issue while the economy goes down lol

    The rupee has become unstable since the last govt left. The reserves have declined by 2 to 3 billion dollars. The stock exchange has lost a 1000 points. The deficit is increasing and there hasnt been a plan to address it yet. Also, the new govt. really hasnt said what they are going to do about oil. Clearly we cant afford $123 (soon to cross $200) oil. What will be the alternative?

    Posted 4 years ago on 07 May 2008 22:50 #
  30. AccountabilityAdvocate
    Member

    @ Secular_Pakistan

    Who wants to \"do business\" in a failed state and the most dangerous place in the world? And in the second-most corrupt economy! End of conversation.

    Meanwhile, you should enjoy the MP 1 scale as well as the loot maar in Stock Market while the going is good for you!

    Posted 4 years ago on 07 May 2008 23:20 #
  31. economy might have become slightly better since the trade embargoes imposed on us after the nuclear explosions. but if you look at foriegn policy magazines failed state index economy is just one of the twenty or more factors which decide a countrys ranking. and all the other indicators have just gone from bad to worse.

    be4 the democratic govt. stepped in and initiated dialog with extremists there was a suicide bomb going off every single day! not to mention the total break up of infrastructure which is vital for any kind of business

    do you think foriegn investors are stupid? when the situation of a country is suitable for business you dont have to go and ask people to invest in your country captial just flows in where it expects profits.

    Posted 4 years ago on 08 May 2008 1:28 #
  32. AccountabilityAdvocate
    Member

    @ Secular_Pakistan

    Wastage of foreign exchange on the consumption of IMPORTED LUXURY GOODS like BMWs, cellphones, and Pajeros, do not contribute to a economic development. And, privatization of national assets (at throw away prices) does not constitute investment.

    As for your harking the World Bank/UNDP \"Cost of Living Indices\": Karachi is one of the most expensive cities in the world for the goras because a bottle of whisky costs $120.

    Finally, because of security considerations most expatriates prefer to deal with Pakistan while living in Uzbekistan. And, how many foreign airlines venture to arrive in the country?

    Get it! GDP figures do not translate into bread, electricity, vaccines, law and order, eradication of the VIP culture, and JUSTICE! Nonetheless, I admire your hope provided you channel your struggle for the 99.99 percent of the POOR.

    Posted 4 years ago on 08 May 2008 4:05 #
  33. Anonymous

    @codefreaq,

    Btw , who asked for non sense Nuclear aventures ? which ultimately resulted in strengthing of NAPAK ARMY and military rule ?

    Someone here also taunteed persons who left Pakistan and migrated . Man , Have u got any rights in Pakistan as a HUMNAN ? ook , according to u , we are third rated citizens here . But r u a considered even a HUMAN in Pakistan ?

    @Secular ,
    According to u , the economy is really in good shape. Can u plz draw a graph / chart of

    a) Exports
    b) Imports
    c) GDP growth.

    I think that should clear everyone\'s doubts.

    Instead of going one report or the other , that will be a better analysis base.

    Posted 4 years ago on 08 May 2008 4:33 #
  34. askhan were you around when India went nuclear and BJP govt. openly threatened and provoked pakistan?

    It was a tough choice for NS with a lot of public pressure to do nuclear explosions and BB asking NS to resign if he cant do them and on the other side bill clinton putting a lot of pressure on NS not to go down Indias road. he took his time in making the decision and in the end made the right one because I believe the right wing BJP party was ready to declare war on pakistan. a great economy wouldnt really have helped had a nuclear India attacked pakistan. besides merely three years after the trade restrictions they were lifted as a result of 9/11 so we did get the chance to reverse the damage done.

    you are saying that pak army was stronger as a result of going nuclear and resulted in military rule. we have had several military takeovers before going nuclear and I dont think the nukes have anything to do with military intervention and takeovers maybe you should clear that bit for me

    Posted 4 years ago on 08 May 2008 5:25 #
  35. Anonymous

    @Secular ,
    For your Consideration i have done a quick analysis of Booming economy of Pakistan on the basis of exports.

    1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008
    10% Growth 8.5 9.35 10.285 11.3135 12.44485 13.689335 15.0582685 16.56409535 18.22050489 20.04255537
    9% Growth 8.5 9.265 10.09885 11.0077465 11.99844369 13.07830362 14.25535094 15.53833253 16.93678245 18.46109288
    8% Growth 8.5 9.18 9.9144 10.707552 11.56415616 12.48928865 13.48843175 14.56750628 15.73290679 16.99153933

    In 1999 , pakistan exports were 8.5B $. In 2008 , Pak won\'t be even toucing 17B marks. Thats a growth of less than 8% on yoy basis.

    Posted 4 years ago on 08 May 2008 6:15 #
  36. Anonymous

    @codefreaq,

    First of all , India never attacked Pakistan. Thats history .

    I was very much around in 1998 . Would u like to shed some light that who tested missliles in April 98 & why ?

    Dear, when politicians use army to crush their political opponents , then army gets strengthened. If Balochistan operation in 70\'s done by Bhutto was right , then why not July 77 action ?

    Similarly , if military operation of June 1992 and Oct 1998 in Karachi was right then why not Oct 99 ?

    If Suspension of Sindh Assembly & Govt. under Emergency was right in 1998 , then why not suspension / dissolution of National Aseembly in 1999 ?

    Whats the moral/legal ground for people, who themselves did militaty operations to suppress their opponents, to oppose military coup ?

    In the end , Leader is not the person who bows down due to public pressure. A leader needs to have gutst to control / channelize public mob .

    Posted 4 years ago on 08 May 2008 6:22 #
  37. FUTURE
    Member

    @askhan
    name\'s FUTURE, and i was talkin about all those freakin ppl who moved out of Pakistan and did nuthin for Pakistan except run their stinkin mouths off!!! i know a lot of educated and cultured Pakistanis living abroad who care for Pakistan and want to improve it. they discuss the issues like civilized educated intellectuals and not like some badass scholar wanna bes. if Pakistanis want to discuss issues then no one has a problem with it, but if some1 is gonna come down here and run their mouth off about how Pakistan is the worst nation - then they aint nuthin but an inbred indian degenerate hick!!!!
    the best is that i have seen these people get their rearends whooped in the west, and no matter how hard they try they still 3rd rate citizens, fake pretenders. and by the grace of God, the Pakistanis who are true and dont pretend to be white boys are the ones gettin respect everywhere!!!!

    FUTURE looks educated and respectful!!! ;-)

    Posted 4 years ago on 08 May 2008 7:02 #
  38. FUTURE
    Member

    u seem obsessed with behinds
    and child abuse,
    maybe cause your a$$ is guilty
    of what u accuse,
    so project not on others
    thy unhappy abused past,
    but see a psychiatrist
    and it shall all come to pass!!!

    FUTURE looks healthy and curable!!! ;-)

    Posted 4 years ago on 08 May 2008 7:09 #
  39. Accountable,

    Consumption is good, consumptions generates economic activity, even if it is imports. You ignore the company that imports the cellphone, the jobs and wages they provide, the shops selling the phones, the telecommunications cos. providing mobile phone connections to users, the jobs they provide, and, the chain effect of these as more jobs means more people have more money and they spend more money and this creates more job....a cycle.

    and the economic output takes into account imports. so when see gdp of $160 billion, that doesnt include imported bmws and nokias, those are subtracted.

    and its not just imports. its all goods and services, both local and imported. take a lot at cars, motorbikes, trucks, tractors, buses etc:

    http://www.pama.org.pk/historicaldata.htm

    consumption is also an indicator, when people spend more on cars, bikes, mobiles, ACs, clothing, computers, houses etc. it means they have more money, they are wealthier. it cant be all borrowed money as pakistan has one of the highest interest rates in the world at around 11%, our monetary policy is really tight.

    Show me where Karachi is one of the most expensive places in the world, which index are you talking about? I hope your not talking about a whiskey index because that isnt representative of general price levels. whiskey price is affected by other factors which dont affect most consumer goods and services.

    What about Uzbeks? I didnt get what you mean?
    How many airlines arrive into Pakistan? Many, and, more and more are starting to come. Read up.

    GDP does translate into bread and electricity and education and everything else too.

    Socio-economic justice is the most important form of justice. Go ask a poor person who struggles everyday to put a roti on the table everyday for their families. Go ask what peoples primary concern in Pakistan is today. It is not judiciary or Ch. Iftikhar or democracy, it is atta and high food inflation.

    99.9%??? Pakistan has a middle class of 30 million today with an avg. household income of $10,000.

    Economic development and growth is the only way to deliver to all classes of any country, even poor classes. Read a really really long post I wrote on the last page. It should put things into perspective.

    Also, in terms of social indicators, such as access to water, education, health etc
    If you go to the UNDP millenium development goals progress report, you will see all these indicators CONSISTENLY WENT DOWNARDS during the 90s, BUT, in 2000s, they WENT UPWARDS. See for yourself. Ofcourse, when the economy improves, the govt. pumps in more money into education and health and social services. For instance higher education budget increased by roughly TWENTY TIMES (that is 20) since 1999. No. of PhDs produced increased manifold, no. of university professors did too. a large new of new universities were established. a large no. are being established. you have many european and american universities setting up campuses in pakistan.

    ofcourse the media wouldnt know this because we are a jahil quam (nation) and they dont pay much attention to such things. I remember Mushtaq Minhas was saying about roti kapra makan, ROTI RIZK TO ALLAH NAY DAYNA HAI, AB BAS JUDGES RESTORE KARAIN loooooooool

    Cant believe the stupidity of people.

    Posted 4 years ago on 08 May 2008 7:19 #
  40. Askhan,

    FYI, our exports have exceeded $17 billion. As of now, they are around $1.8 billion a month. That means more approx. more than $21 billion this year.

    \"Oh its not even 8%\"

    I wonder how much your democratic govts. raised the exports by even though the rupees value fell to a fraction of its original during the democratic govts. of the 90s. (falling rupee means our exports become much cheaper and more competitive). 13% yoy? Probably more like 3% lol

    And why i am laughing, its not funny, its a disgrace, and, this is the democracy our INTELLECTUALS and civil society is dying for. Let them have it. They same people who went crazy with jubilation when Musharraf came will once again beg army to come in and save from the politicians in a couple of years.

    Posted 4 years ago on 08 May 2008 7:27 #
  41. codefreaq,

    \"not to mention the total break up of infrastructure which is vital for any kind of business\"

    This govt. has spent billions of dollars on infrastructure, we have built many times more insfrastructure during Musharrafs govt. than during the entire 88 to 99 period. Whether it is highways, roads, bridges, hotels, residential projects, commercial projects, underpassed...the infrastructure was much worse in 1999, much worse, there wasnt a proper shopping mall or a proper hotel in the capital islamabad. today they are building a 7 star hotel in islamabad, new airport, look at the roads built, the schools, universities, so many things.

    show me which indicator on failed state index was better in 1999?

    \"economy might have become slightly better since the trade embargoes imposed on us after the nuclear explosions\"

    That is oversimplifying a very complex matter, I dont think you understand economics, economics is not as simple as that statement, otherwise every country in the world would be developed. embargo was imposed in 1998, what about from 1988 to 1998? Was the economy (and all other socio-economic indicators) going up or down?

    The economy of Pakistan bounced from total bankruptcy to becoming the 3rd best in Asia, it didnt \"improve slightly\"

    And, the change was due to policies, reforms and management for the most part.

    Please read my previous posts in this same thread.

    \"do you think foriegn investors are stupid? when the situation of a country is suitable for business you dont have to go and ask people to invest in your country captial just flows in where it expects profits\"

    Yes exactly, thats why our foreign investment has grown from a few hundred million dollars in 1999 to $8 billion, which is more than Indias relative to the size of the economy.

    Posted 4 years ago on 08 May 2008 7:39 #
  42. Anonymous

    @secular__pakistan,

    Dear , plz go to the following link. The first sheet says that exports till end march were 13,476b $. The average comes to 1397m$ p/month. At this rate , it will be under 18b $.

    http://www.epb.gov.pk/v1/statistics/

    I have given the source of my information. Plz rectify me with your more authentic source.

    Posted 4 years ago on 08 May 2008 9:09 #
  43. Anonymous

    @secular__pakistan,

    When we sell Steel Mills for $10 Capital company , then obviuolsy invenstors will come and it will shoot from hundred millions to billions .

    Would u plz tell that how much aid was recived during 88-99 as compared to aid inflows after 9/11?

    Also , plz tell about the increase in foriegn remittances which jumped from hundred of millions to over 4b after 9/11.

    Imports are important part but consumption is happening due to productivity outside pakistan. The productivity , neither in agriculture nor in manufacturing is increasing. Services sector apart from telecom is stagnent. So ,what progress u r talking of ?

    Apart from coastal highway , what other road has been built in mush era ? Even coastal highway dates back to 90\'s ?

    Posted 4 years ago on 08 May 2008 9:17 #
  44. AccountabilityAdvocate
    Member

    FUTUTE is FUBAR!

    Posted 4 years ago on 08 May 2008 13:05 #
  45. Ashkan,

    Go to http://www.brecorder.com

    Scroll down and youll find the export figure on the right hand side for March which is $ 1.78 bn.

    Either way, whether its $18 bn or $21 bn, its still more double that of 1999.

    Steel Mills and FDI:

    First of all, the steel mills issue has been raised a million times by people who have no idea what the deal was with that. Briefly, the govt. bypassed the law to offer the interested party a SMALL discount (of about 0.5% i think) in return for which the party would establish another steel mill in Pakistan.

    Now, steel mills and FDI,

    Look at your FDI, most of it doesnt go to govt. or public companies, most goes into the private sector, you could make the (false) argument that the govt. is throwing away public companies at dirt cheap prices hence attracting FDI. But, that argument is inherently flawed, because, most of the FDI goes into the private sector, which lord knows, does not throw away anything for less than its worth. Even 2 days ago, Maybank of Malaysia made purchased roughly $800 million to $1 bn stake in MCB (15% to 20% stake), which was way over the market value of the MCB shares. I guess they must be really stupid for investing in a failed state with a fake bubble economy.

    Aid:

    I hear this again and again. What does the aid do? Do you know? For the aid to really aid the economy, it would have to be injected into the local economy. Does the govt. take that aid and start handing out cheques to people? Where does that money go? There is an economic component to the aid, which is around 200 million dollars (it will be increased now as a DEMOCRACY DIVIDEND, im sure youve heard). What is 200 million dollars compared to our budget? What is 200 million dollars compared to our GDP? Its peanuts. It doesnt do anything. If you claim this economic growth is due to aid, you havent looked at the details and are just repeating a populist statement made by people who dont really know what aid or finance or the economy is. The majority of the aid goes to purchasing military equipment, operation in Waziristan etc

    Foreign remittances are themselves influenced significantly by the state of the economy. eg. Overseas Pakistanis buy property, houses, plots. For instance, now the local investors are taking their money out due the fall in the rupee and the (temporary) stagnation of the economy [but long term FOREIGN investors are still investing in PK].

    What on earth does consumption in Pakistan have to do with overseas productivity???

    Why, using the same logic, Eritrea or Sudan, does not have a massive growth in consumption due to productivity overseas? Why arent nepalese buying more ipods and ipones due to productivity at apple? That makes no sense, Pakistanis cannot increase their consumption unless they have more incomes, no matter how productive the outside world becomes. That really makes no sense. Pakistanis would either need more income or more money would need to be printed to increase consumption. And, its not more money printing because our monetary policy is extremely tight, interest rates at around 11%

    If manufacturing is not increasing, then how did we increase our exports from 8 billion to 18 or 21 billion? Are we exporting hot air? How has consumption of goods locally increased if manufacturing hasnt grown? Are people buying imaginary cars and washing machines?

    Our service sector is BOOOOOOOOMING. It is the fastest growing aspect of our economy. Finally, after 60 years, we have broken free from the shakles of other useless, unproductive subsidy gobblers like textiles. If it wasnt for what Shaukat Aziz did with out service sector, our economy wouldnt be 160 billion, rupee wouldnt have only dropped Rs. 7 to the dollar, it would have dropped Rs. 50 to the dollar, our FDI wouldnt be $ 8 billion, we wouldnt be surviving $123 oil barrels, we wouldve collapsed at $23 a barrel.

    I.T is booming, retail is booming, real estate is booming, logistics and transportation is booming, music and film and fashion and media is booming, banking and financial sector is booming, aviation is booming, and thats just off the top of my head, its not just telecommunications.

    Roads:

    Do you really want me to present you a list of highways and motorways built from 2000 to 2008? You guys make me do so much work here =(

    I dont think anyone writes here as much as I do lool

    But I can dig up and look for the info. if you insist and you still dont believe me? lool

    But I dont see the point, I will give you a list, but, you will move onto attacking some other part of the economy/development/infrastructure, then i will reply to that and the cycle will continue.

    Anyways, this past govt. in the past 5 years (not 8, just 5) built 30,000 kms of roads, which I assure you was much greater than roads built from 1988 to 1999.

    Another important thing worth mentioning is the national trade corridor, one of the first things musharraf govt. discovered was that the cost of doing business in pakistan was too high as the infrastructure and transportation network was awful. what would take a truck a day in china or 2 days in india, would take 7 days in pakistan, so they initiated a $9 billion dollar national trade corridor program. this include $5 billion road networks connecting the country from south in karachi and gwadar to all the major cities and all the upto Afghanistan in the north west and china in the north. this is part of a major plan to benefit from china\\\\\\\'s tremendous growth and develop trade and energy routes. the gwadar port will be used to stimulate greater trade through pakistan. I think the target is $300 billion trade through pakistan by 2020.

    sadly, geo and aaj and ary wouldnt know anything about the national trade corridor, they dont bother with such things. you can look it up online if you want more information, there is bound to be some.

    Also, if you go live in islamabad and karachi, you can see dozens of roads being built everyday. im sure lahore is also doing okay (i havent been there for a few years).

    Another VERY IMPORTANT CONSIDERATION when discussing the economy is. People ALWAYS cite favorable conditions such as aid. However, no one mentions that UNFAVORABLE circumstances.

    Oil was $10 in 1999 (yet we still had to beg Saudia to give it to us for free if you remember).
    Oil is today 1200% of its 1999 price. Price of steel, price of copper, price of rubber, price of all commodoties, price of food, all these things are many many times more expensive then 1999 in the global market. The law and order situation under which our country is, suicide bombings, operation in waziristan, NATO troops in afghanistan, BB killed, entire country burnt down due to BB\'s death. All the political turmoil, lawyers movement, emergency, elections. A major recession in the US economy, major slowdown in global economy. All these unfavorable circumstances are worse than the favorable ones.

    Yet our growth only dropped from 7% to 6.5% (for one year).

    Posted 4 years ago on 08 May 2008 19:51 #
  46. Anonymous

    @Secular,

    I have given u the official figures and that stands more reliable than anyother. Anyhow , if it has doubled in 10 years , whats the yoy growth ? and don\'t foget the changes which have occured in this period specially the end of quota regime after WTO . Also Pakistan being partner in war against terror has been offered better access to American and EU markets.

    For FDI , u mention a new major unit being setup in pakistan during this era apart from 3/4 mobile companies ? The FDI that has come in like for puchase of PTC, HBL , UBL or Refinieries. I can\'t remember of large manufacturing being setup during this year. If u know please mention ?

    About foriegn aid , plz see the US senate committe proceedings who are talking of about 5/6 billion $.

    About remittances , the conditions in west changed after 9/11 and pakistanis started to send back their money to pakistan nothing to do with pakistan government. My argument can be proven from figures for 99-2001 .

    I repeat my question , u ccome up with a single major highway apart from coastal highway ? i won\'t claim like u that i know the most. But plz come up and mention here for illiterates like me .

    About Gawadar , such a masterpiece of planning that has no connection to inner country apart from coastal highway. Traffic will come to Karachii and then go upward. Built at a time when our existing ports of Karachi & Bin Qasim are under utilized. Which genius will first go to Gawadar offlaod their , come to Karaachi by road and then go up country ? Plz throw some light of your intellect as welll

    Posted 4 years ago on 08 May 2008 21:31 #
  47. Anonymous

    In my previous email i just forgot to biggest infrastructure project , the new GHQ being built in Islamabad.

    @Secular,
    u said that IT is booming. myself from IT sector. Would u plz quote a single IT company having 1000 employees ? I really doubt , if there is any.

    How much is IT exports from pakistan ? 50 m $ ? is it a booming sector?

    Posted 4 years ago on 08 May 2008 22:18 #
  48. Anonymous

    Here is some more information for .

    Cotton is pakistan\'s most important crop as its also the raw material for textile industry.

    India has almost dobuled its cotton output from
    158.00 million bales in 97-98
    280.00 million bales in 06-07.

    http://www.cotcorp.gov.in/national_cotton.asp

    If we look at pakistan figures

    12.8 million bales in 1991-1992 . (source http://www.opf.org.pk/almanac/A/agriculture.htm)
    10.6 million bales in 2001-02 ( source http://www.finance.gov.pk/survey/home.htm)
    12.4 million bales in 2005-06 ( source http://www.finance.gov.pk/survey/home.htm)

    I think everyone will appreciate this marvelous development.

    India achieved this enhancement mainly becaz of genetiically modified seeds. But since we were too busy in building misslies , GHQ and atom bomb , we missed the train .

    Posted 4 years ago on 09 May 2008 0:46 #
  49. Anonymous

    http://www.phclondon.org/miscellaneous/PakFTSpRep.pdf

    Its a report which is obvioulsy not written by some PRO-DEMOCRACY .

    On page 2 , last Paragraph.

    \"
    Over the last five years Pakistan has started to throw off the dismal export record it acquired during the lost decade of the 1990s. Whereas exports grew during the 1970s and 1980s at an annual average rate of 18.6 per cent and 8.5 per cent respectively, they increased by an average annual rate of just 4.5 percent during the 1990s.\"

    So,
    During 70\'s 18.5 %
    During 80\'s 8.5 %
    During 90\'s 4.5 %
    Mush Regime 7.5 %

    So, this is one of the miracles we have achieved in all the favourable conditions.

    Posted 4 years ago on 09 May 2008 1:16 #
  50. AccountabilityAdvocate
    Member

    Posted 4 years ago on 09 May 2008 19:00 #

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