Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
Dr. Israr talks on Pakistan & Islam;
netengr
blocked
Dr Israr +JI+ISI Islam =Deen-e-akbari
Posted 2 years ago on 30 Nov 2009 12:34 #
netengr
blocked
Dr Israr +JI+ISI Islam =Deen-e-akbari
ucsher
Member
@haris khan
I think by showing the members what Dr Israr has to say you are also trying to preach them that all the muslims in Pakistan should consider non-muslim pakistanis as 2nd grade citizens? (because that's what he said in jawab-deh with the journalist Iftikhar Ahmad)
shahzad1924
member
@ucsher
"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." [9:29]
the Quran says that they should "feel themselves subdued". you got any problems with the Quran?
ucsher
Member
@shahzad1924
Yes I have a problem with it because I don't believe any religion should dictate the state affairs in the first place!
Now call me a liberal fascist, secularist , kafir or whatever you like but I am not ready to get black-mailed by this typical religious rhetoric and live that typical hypocrite/"religiously correct" life where no one has the courage to call a spade, a spade!
I think all of us are first humans and only after that we belong to any particular nationality, race or religion!!!
and since all humans living in pakistan are first pakistanis and later muslims, christians, hindus etc. therefore no one could be more "religiously racist" than us if we judge muslims and non-muslims with different standards!
lastly, please react to my post only if you have some rational argument to make since these religious black-mails that people like you do is exactly the reason as to why some people in this world are even drinking cow urine!!! (i.e the reason behind them doing such an illogical and senseless thing is only religious;)
shahzad1924
member
@ucsher "...where no one has the courage to call a spade, a spade!"
excuse me! i just said it loud and clear. dhimmis have to feel subdued. thats what the Quran says!
and nobody is trying to blackmail you on the name of religion. once the Khilafah is established in Pakistan, you can pay the tax or leave. its simple as that.
@ALL
All offtopic posts have been removed.
Admin/Moderator
Thanks for your appropriate action.
kq
Member
so much for Islam being a religion of peace!
shahzad1924
member
i for one, am not an advocate of Islam being a religion of Peace. first of all, Islam is not a religion like Christianity or Judaism, its a deen - a way of life - an ideology. secondly, Islam IS peace in itself.
yes, islam means peace,
there is no place of criminals/militants like TTP in islam.
@ My dear Hariskhan,
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH,
Islam is a Deen, but doesn't allow to promote personal preferences under the cover of Deen.
Out of 60-70 members at the Discussion Section of the forum, every member has his/her own capacity to understand and follow Deen according to his level of thinking.
Your wisdom is creating more hostility than coordination.
Your message should be with a motive to Unite and not to Divide.
Let me more clear on my expression that you are not promoting Deen but arrogance and hatred.
The Administration should be fair, neutral, non-partisan and non-prejudice to protect the spirit of COC.
If you are at the forum to propagate Deen and only Deen then I am sorry you are not aware of the propaganda techniques.
First create friends before selling your stuff.
Just count how many foes you have created within a few months of your entry to the forum?
Your method of promotion is getting adverse outcome and also jeopardizing the position of Moderators where they attempt to defend you.
kq
Member
shahzad1924,
"secondly, Islam IS peace in itself."
Sounds more like Islam IS terror in itself. I fail to see the peace part when you say Islam is not a religion of peace.
No wonder the Swiss banned minarets, actually they should have done way more, maybe they haven't talked to you yet.
jaypk
Member
"Islam is a DEEN and not a religion like christianity and judaism???"
My question to people who are telling us that islam is a DEEN and not religion.
Are you guys trying to say that " La Ikraha Fid deen" translation " Let there be no compulsion in religion" is not related to islam but it relates to other religions since for you guys islam is deen and not religion so i presume from your point of view that this Ayat is for other RELIGIONs.
is that what you are trying to say?
study the complete life of Mohammad PBUH,
can you find any place of militancy and kilings in islam ?
No way.
There is also no place of militancy and killing in secularism but US is doing this in Iraq and Afghanistan so why dont you link secularism with militancy and brutality.
Similarly if few muslims are showing brutality, it has nothing to do with Islam and even you know that but you have to say this to prove your argument which is weak without the help of such bogus comments.
@Jaypk
You wrote La Ikrah Fe Deen and you translated Deen as religion in english and what are you trying to prove?
jaypk
Member
@letsdoit...its not ME who is translating DEEN as a religion..kindly have a look above..i dont want to name the guys..but there is a bunch who is trying to twist it...let them come..they might be thinking of another twisted approach now..!!
my only point is that..."let there be no compulsion in religion" but the guy is saying tht islam is a deen and not religion so dont mix the two....and i dont know where he is now..!!
its time that they should pack thr bags...!!
The meaning of this verse is not that there is now law in Islam. Off course once you accept Islam you have to abide by certain code of conduct.
This meaning of this verse are that one should not force some one to become muslim or accepting Islam should be forced rather it should come with the free will.
My dear LetsDoIt,
You are right to say,
"if few Muslims are showing brutality, it has nothing to do with Islam"
This could be true about so many other Ideologies.
There should not be any objection where those 'few Muslims'
are condemned for Brutality.
Most of the Discussion at the Forum is against those who support, defend , justify, try to cover up and keep a soft corner for such Brutality.
To criticize a criminal act should not be taken something against Islam.
It has become an outdated defense to make an issue emotional with the label of Religion.
Criminals cannot be accepted as champions of Islam.
By the way what would be your reaction after a suicide incident?
shahzad1924
member
@kq - "No wonder the Swiss banned minarets, actually they should have done way more, maybe they haven't talked to you yet."
oh yeah, you can give them my number.
BTW, i love it when the lota group runs away.
"Sounds more like Islam IS terror in itself. I fail to see the peace part when you say Islam is not a religion of peace."
its good to know that you ran out of arguments so soon and started to go round in circles.
jaypk
Member
@letsdoit...i think you are not getting me..its nuthin to do with you and me.....just leave it for now.. i know the meaning and interpretation of this ayat meray bhai...:)...but my argument is fr someone else..let them come...till thn wait..!!
some of the above posts are deleted...or else you would have understood the whole scenario by now..!!
we all are ready to fight for islam .
but making our life according to Islam is a bit difficult for us.
Javed Shaikh
Most of the Discussion at the Forum is against those who support, defend , justify, try to cover up and keep a soft corner for such Brutality.
----------------------------------------------------------
Who are these 'Most'. Why not come out and name them so that all may also know!
And kindly name those too as you have said above who support, defend, justify or try to cover up and keep a soft corner for such brutality.
Or shall I take this as a non stop effort form you to create divisions among our forum members based on your own understanding?
Elixir
Member
I have reviewed the thread to understand the activity.
It appears that vague comment with generalization by member 'javedsheikh' is causing confusion.
Moderators should advice members to not to write in vague generalities to keep discussion in order.
jaypk
Member
@letsdoit....dint i tell you this buddy...tht thrs no answer to that..and they will definitley come up with a new twisted plan and sumthin to divert the attention and nt answering my question....so they have...and you still wouldnt see an answer here...!! becasue they have axed up themselves.....!!
@Elixir
Thanks for your support for Moderators. Vague comments with generalization is certainly a bad practice that should be checked.
My dear semirza,
This is the job of Moderators to watch who is creating division through personal and sarcastic remarks and I am sure Moderators know well.
You know better who convert the difference of opinion to hatred and hatred into enmity, just after a few postings, where they go out of arguments.
Sir,
I have saved most of the discussion track where members have openly protected and favored the acts of Terrorism and brutality.
This is happening since long.
It should be saved at the Database of the Forum also.
I can mail it to you and the Administrator for your fair judgment, if you want.
Please do me a favor by putting up the objectionable portions out of my postings.
I will tender a public apology for any offensive or provoking sentence.
From your attitude it looks you are not satisfied by my input.
I apologize where I failed to satisfy the standard of discussion at the Forum.
A constant organized discouraging campaign is undergoing against me and my family if we have committed any crime by joining the forum.
This is the best evidence of my fairness that I am at the Forum with my original Identity and also posted my background so many times.
I don't get nervous due to difference of opinion.
I can debate and handle even an Atheist without getting annoyed.
Your guidance is always welcomed.
Thanks.
I support Mr Javed Sheikh's remarks here.
jaypk
Member
@javedsheikh...agreed
furthermore..
since i havent received an answer frm a particular group here
...i d say...pack your bags up and take a hike...there is no room fr your view here...
.and promote your religious beliefs and thoughts somewhere else…i can get my views better by reading the holy book and hadees myself..so stop interpreting what you think is right..and stop giving me the twisted picture of my religion...!!
.thr is no more room in our country fr religious based politics and hatred..and if you guys really want to contribute then contribute in a way where we can move ahead as a nation since I m answerable to God fr my own deeds so stop being thaikedars of my religion and you wouldn’t be questioned fr what I have done.
...let religion be separated frm politics as this amalgamation is the catch 22 for our nation.....and fr religion stop imposing a specific approach on the masses...the masses are dying today as they dont have roti..learn frm the mistakes of our previous leaders..the were all somehow linked with this religious animosity combined with politics....provide the awam roti first if you have the guts and people will automatically come under the banner...you dont need to win a seat to give awam the roti under the banner of religion...we have to fix our own selves first...everyone is answerable fr thr own deeds...because of mixing politics with our religion the only known aspect of our religion is the twisted defination of jihaad...even nations who were liberated after us are way ahead of us today but only because of the religion card we are lagging…and will be laggin unless we take this card out for good and anyone who uses it we must ignore him.....!!
lets just try to fix ourself first and then preach others about religion and try to do something better for the nation rather then..!!
@Javed Shaikh
Sure this is the job of a moderator and that is why I asked you directly.
Vague comments, generalization is not a good practice; certainly confusions are a result that have led to verbal brawls.
As per my attitude, I am not comfortable with anyone who follows such habits with or without intent.
As a senior member on this forum, your age, experience of life and your qualifications should be a beacon for people like us and other members, who are eager to learn.
If somehow you have attracted negative criticism than there should be something that requires yours and only your attention towards a change.
I myself fully endorse what admin says. We should have a ban on religious topics, that engage our honorary members into inconclusive debates.
Respected Mirza Sahib
Thanks for endorsing Admins's saying. A ban on religious topics will surely bring more life and credibility to pkpolitics.
sorry jaypk for misunderstanding. I really apologize, i guess there is some connection with the missing/deleted messages and i was completely unaware of that.
@ My dear Semirza,
Here is a list of respectable members who actively participate to keep the Forum running and growing through their contributions.
A member should be ready to receive an Anti-Thesis, where he/she is putting forward a Thesis what could lead all of us towards a more positive Synthesis.
Killing the fetus in the womb, won't produce anything even after a wait of nine months.
You can well evaluate the position of every member about his/her preferences by pulling out all of the postings.
1. Andarkabandar
2. Adnak
3. Adonis
4. AHR
5. Anwar kamal
6. Aristotle
7. Azizi
8. Bbpakistani
9. Beenai
10. Bilal
11. Bsobaid
12. Choosy
13. Crocodile
14. Dervaish
15. Elixir
16. Expakistani
17. Fahim23
18. Fiono123
19. Ghareeb
20. HQ
21. Hariskhan
22. Iamsowise
23. Jalali
24. Javed Sheikh
25. Jaypak
26. JJKhan
27. KG
28. Khan Sahib
29. LetsDoIt
30. Linkwheel
31. Londonistan
32. Migel9
33. Mir munaf
34. Mullah nafs-e-Zakyya
35. MSohail83
36. Musician
37. Netengr
38. NNL
39. Nomad_citizen
40. Oreil
41. Pak Truth
42. Peterpan
43. Quaidkamazar
44. Raheb
45. Rivivalist
46. Runaway
47. Semirza
48. Shaheen-i-Iqbal
49. Shahidh
50. Shahzad1924
51. Shahzada
52. Shikra
53. Shriq
54. Sufi Soul
55. Sky Fact
56. True Pakistani
57. U sayd
58. Ucher
59. Unique
60. Urazzaq12
61. Wahid Dayum
62. Yahya
63. Zia M
64. Zingaro
65. Zjshami
(Members! Please add up if anyone is missing)
shahzad1924
member
two questions...
shouldn't this discussion be in another thread?
why do you have a list of the members?
@Javed Shaikh
Alas you missed the whole point. To further my view would be useless.
I am not impressed at all.
I conclude this topic here.
@ semirza sahib,
I am sorry you disliked my post.
Honestly I was expecting an appreciation for compiling a list of members to indicates the popularity and growth of the Forum within two years.
There were hardly 15 to 20 participating members when I joined this forum in December 2007.
O.K.
I will be careful in future.
gv
Member
@javed sahib,
Sir let me explain. With all due respect your writing style is rather vague. Which leads people not understanding what you are trying to say. (or not completely understanding)
My dear gv,
Yes I accept my weakness and appreciate you observation for future guidance.
I never claimed to be perfect.
I am at this forum to share and learn in a friendly and decent atmosphere.
Some of your postings are really impressive to create a fair image about your position.
Sahnaz
Member
"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."
im totally disagree with this...how can GOD( if he is enough wise not to give such statements)dicriminate his creation on the base of wat religion or way of life they do follow rather thn good deeds done by people.
its meant if sm1 is not follower of ISLAM he/she will definately goes to hell and burn fr eternity dsnt matter how much good things he has done for humanity.
GOD cant be a super discriminator. if he is thn he is nt GOD.
thnx
shahzad1924
member
lucky for us, we don't follow logic, we follow Islam.
BTW, so you mean to say that you disagree with this verse of the Quran?
Sahnaz
Member
im disagree on any logic which is against common man. dsnt matter if it is frm any holy book. fr me if there is GOD or any Super Power, HE/She cant be a discriminater.
shahzad1924
member
start another thread if you are so interested in this topic
Sahnaz
Member
@shahzad
y dnt u initiate it.
thnx
NNL
member
"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."
im totally disagree with this...how can GOD( if he is enough wise not to give such statements)dicriminate his creation on the base of wat religion or way of life they do follow rather thn good deeds done by people.
its meant if sm1 is not follower of ISLAM he/she will definately goes to hell and burn fr eternity dsnt matter how much good things he has done for humanity.
GOD cant be a super discriminator. if he is thn he is nt GOD.
thnx
Again one can see that one appreciate post from the Admin to one particular member results in a start of a hatemongering and religion bashing.
Surprisingly the Admin was commenting on Tolerance and the member took it as a go ahead to start their agenda of Islam/Quran/Mohammed bashing ritual that they are so used to do.
expakistani
Member
Personally i like religious posting...
kia pata Allah Kab hum ko bhi tuffeq de !!!
Some stuff is good for personal learning, and understanding others opinion of Islam....
Please no banned about religious topic!!!
how about just ignore postings by fundos or use less molvies, calling minorities to have yellow ribbon /second grd citizen or making fuzz about minarat in Switzerland
such stuff can move in to fun and humor area but not in any serious post
Sahnaz
Member
NNL
tell me where im bashing Quran?Islam?Mohd??im saying tht im nt agree with any verses which show discriminator. fr a religious person his holy book can be word of GOD but nt fr me. e.g Quran fr muslims, TOrah fr Jews, Bible fr christians, Granth Sahib fr sikhs and Veads fr Hindus. fr me they r just books. thts it. i dnt hv any problem with any holy book till they dnt discriminate. but most of holy books do.
i hope u will get my point. im nt against islam or any other religion. but im very concern abt discrimination dsnt matter if it on base if sex, color, ethnicity, status or religion or region.
thnx
NNL
member
i know there is a saying in the west regarding some people that they have been certified intelligently as stupids.
Its actually pretty foolish on my part to establish a dialogue with a person or persons who believe themselves to be Ibn-e-Monkey.
My apologies.
Sahnaz
Member
nnl
dsnt matter to me if we r ibn-monkey or ibn-a-adam., but to consider a human a human.
thnx
@ALL
It would be better for members to respect each other along with respect towards their respective beliefs being discussed, if that is the case.
Those who happen not to have or do not believe in any beliefs should refrain from indulging in discussions involving believers just to avoid unintended disrespect through comments.
To keep the climate cool at the forum, YES It does matter when suddenly one from ibn-e-adam starts behaving as ibn-e-monkey.
We all are humans and should OBSERVE tolerance towards others as the saying goes.
Sahnaz
Member
To keep the climate cool at the forum, YES It does matter when suddenly one from ibn-e-adam starts behaving as ibn-e-monkey
lolzzzz...u make me laugh...thnx
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