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Philosophy and its branches !

(152 posts)
  1. LalBichoo
    Blocked

    Term Philosophy is derived from two Greek words i.e. 'Philos' & 'Sophia' and can roughly be translated as 'Love of Wisdom' or 'Pursuit of Knowlege' !
    Hence a philosopher is a person who 'seeks knowledge or wisdom' !!!!
    There are several definitions of philosophy some are quoted below.

    " [Philosophy is t]hat which grasps its own era in thought."
    — [[ Hegel]], Elements of the Philosophy of Rights; 1821

    " [Philosophy is a]n interpretation of the world in order to change it."
    — [[ Karl Marx]], Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy (quoted by Jonathan Wolff)

    "... [philosophy] is the acquisition of knowledge."
    — [[Plato, Euthydemus, 288d.]], {{{3}}}

    "... [that] philosophy only is the true one which reproduces most faithfully the statements of nature, and is written down, as it were, from nature's dictation, so that it is nothing but a copy and a reflection of nature, and adds nothing of its own, but is merely a repetition and echo."
    — [[Francis Bacon]], The Enlargement of Science, 1. 2, ch. 3

    "To repeat abstractly, universally, and distinctly in concepts the whole inner nature of the world, and thus to deposit it as a reflected image in permanent concepts always ready for the faculty of reason, this and nothing else is philosophy."
    — [[Arthur Schopenhauer]], The World as Will and Representation, Vol. I, §68

    "... [philosophers] are not honest enough in their work, although they make a lot of virtuous noise when the problem of truthfulness is touched even remotely. They all pose as if they had discovered and reached their real opinions through the self-development of a cold, pure, divinely unconcerned dialectic...; while at bottom it is an assumption, a hunch, indeed a kind of “inspiration”—most often a desire of the heart that has been filtered and made abstract—that they defend with reasons they have sought after the fact."
    — [[Friedrich Nietzsche]], Beyond Good and Evil, Part One: On the Prejudices of Philosophers, §5

    "To grasp the limits of reason – only this is truly philosophy."
    — [[Friedrich Nietzsche]], The Antichrist (book), §55

    "Philosophy, being nothing but the study of wisdom and truth..."
    — [[George Berkeley]], A Treatise Concerning the Principles of Human Knowledge, Introduction, §1

    "...for wonder is the feeling of a philosopher, and philosophy begins in wonder."
    — [[Plato]], Theaetetus, 155

    "Philosophy is the science by which the natural light of reason studies the first causes or highest principles of all things – is, in other words, the science of things in their first causes, in so far as these belong to the natural order."
    — [[Jacques Maritain]], An Introduction to Philosophy, 69

    ""The point of philosophy is to start with something so simple as to seem not worth stating, and to end with something so paradoxical that no one will believe it." "
    — [[Bertrand Russell, quoted by John D. Barrow]], Pi in the Sky, 1992, p. 188

    "The object of philosophy is the logical clarification of thoughts. Philosophy is not a theory but an activity. A philosophical work consists essentially of elucidations. The result of philosophy is not a number of ‘philosophical propositions’, but to make propositions clear. Philosophy should make clear and delimit sharply the thoughts which otherwise are, as it were, opaque and blurred."
    — [[Ludwig Wittgenstein]], Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus, 4.112

    http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Definitions_of_philosophy

    There are five main branches of Philosophy

    1- Logic
    2- Metaphysics
    3- Epistemology
    4- Ethics
    5- Aesthetics

    I invite learned members of this forum to share their knowledge first about Philosophy and then about its main branches especially Logic !!!

    P.S. I would request members to please post their comments relevant with the topic.

    Posted 2 years ago on 21 Apr 2010 13:44 #
  2. Bravo, Red, No sooner said than done. We'll be back, not to worry, with comments of our own. Give us a bit of time to refresh our own memories. And thanks for this new initiative.

    Posted 2 years ago on 21 Apr 2010 14:51 #
  3. Sorry, I seem to be all over the place at the moment. Well, after this, I promise I'll shut up for a while.

    So, Red, an excellent collection of definitions you give above. Really. My favourite there is Nietzsche because he was a poet as well. But it's difficult to discuss him at the best of times. Also he was no logicien. Because some philosophers were and others not. If it's logic we're interested in, then let's take Ludwig Wittgenstein (1889-1951) who in his early period seemed to eat logic at every meal. A word of biography: He was born in Vienna, Austria, into a wealthy family, but spent much of his life teaching at Cambridge University. During WW1, he was made prisoner of war for his own country which he'd gone back to defend. In captivity he finished his first great book Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus (1921). Fine and then once released, he went back to Vienna and distributed all his wealth to the poor there. Now that I find is logic in action, not just an exercise in abstraction to strengthen the brain cells.

    Good. So Wittgenstein's whole logical approach is summed up in the following rightly famous propositions:

    The seven basic propositions are:

    1. The world is everything that is the case.
    2. What is the case, the fact, is the existence of atomic facts.
    3. The logical picture of the facts is the thought.
    4. The thought is the significant proposition.
    5. Propositions are truth-functions of elementary propositions. (An elementary proposition is a truth function of itself.)
    (6. The general form of truth-function is [p, ξ, N(ξ)]. This is the general form of proposition.
    7. Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent.

    Older forms of philosophy peopled the world with objects. Wittgenstein. as though in tune with the coming "scientific revolution", prefers to focus on facts and language. Logic, as we all know, has as its basis the truth criterion. A sentence (proposition) is either true or false. W. provides truth tables and even an equation to determine how true a statement is or isn't. A logician would have to explain this better. I don't happen to be one. My own favourite sentence is the last: "Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent." This leaves out in the cold, such branches as ethics, aesthetics, metaphysics and, of course, religion and, I'd add myself, perhaps politics. Thus the whole beautifully constructed logical approach turns out to be pretty restrictive in the end. Still, I find that one sentence of W. such a masterpiece, along with his biography, of course, that much can be forgiven him. And in later life, then, he did try to improve on his earlier do's and don't's. Hope someone else can do better. I'm awful at this type of hard thinking. Not gifted for it.

    But one thing can be retained form what Wittgenstein taught: Some things are sayable and others not, which is also a rule to be observed in our everyday life.

    Posted 2 years ago on 21 Apr 2010 15:48 #
  4. This philosphy of truth Mirza Ghalib,

    Posted 2 years ago on 21 Apr 2010 16:21 #
  5. Thank you, psycho. My Punjabi is practically non-existent, but I think I caught the gist of your message. Truth will ever be shunned. And those who speak it should expect no garlands, rather sticks and stones. And still persevere in their efforts.

    Posted 2 years ago on 21 Apr 2010 18:16 #
  6. zia m
    Member

    David Hume in his book An Enquiry concerning Human Understanding, makes his observations regarding different species of Philosophy...

    The mere philosopher is a character, which is commonly but little acceptable in the world, as being supposed to contribute nothing either to the advantage or pleasure of society; while he lives remote from communication with mankind, and is wrapped up in principles and notions equally remote from their comprehension. On the other hand, the mere ignorant is still more despised; nor is any thing deemed a surer sign of an illiberal genius in an age and nation where the sciences flourish, than to be entirely destitute of all relish for those noble entertainments. The most perfect character is supposed to lie between those extremes; retaining an equal ability and taste for books, company, and business; preserving in conversation that discernment and delicacy which arise from polite letters; and in business, that probity and accuracy which are the natural result of a just philosophy. In order to diffuse and cultivate so accomplished a character, nothing can be more useful than compositions of the easy style and manner, which draw not too much from life, require no deep application or retreat to be comprehended, and send back the student among mankind full of noble sentiments and wise precepts, applicable to every exigence of human life. By means of such compositions, virtue becomes amiable, science agreeable, company instructive, and retirement entertaining.

    Man is a reasonable being; and as such, receives from science his proper food and nourishment: But so narrow are the bounds of human understanding, that little satisfaction can be hoped for in this particular, either from the extent of security or his acquisitions. Man is a sociable, no less than a reasonable being: but neither can he always enjoy company agreeable and amusing, or preserve the proper relish for them. Man is also an active being; and from that disposition, as well as from the various necessities of human life, must submit to business and occupation: but the mind requires some relaxation, and cannot always support its bent to care and industry. It seems, then, that nature has pointed out a mixed kind of life as most suitable to the human race, and secretly admonished them to allow none of these biases to draw too much, so as to incapacitate them for other occupations and entertainments. Indulge your passion for science, says she, but let your science be human, and such as may have a direct reference to action and society. Abstruse thought and profound researches I prohibit, and will severely punish, by the pensive melancholy which they introduce, by the endless uncertainty in which they involve you, and by the cold reception which your pretended discoveries shall meet with, when communicated. Be a philosopher; but, amidst all your philosophy, be still a man.

    Here is a link to read the first chapter..

    http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/h/hume/david/h92e/chapter1.html

    Posted 2 years ago on 22 Apr 2010 2:21 #
  7. LalBichoo
    Blocked

    MG, Psycho, and ziam,

    Thanks a lot for your contribution !

    MG, I also liked the last of Wittgenstein's propositions i.e. "" "Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent.""
    One of my friends during university days used to translate this one as
    جس بات کے بارے مے پتا نہ ہو
    اس بات کے بارے مے بولیں متی

    ziam, thanks for quoting David Hume the famous atheist, sceptic and empiricist !!!

    Posted 2 years ago on 22 Apr 2010 5:12 #
  8. Allama Iqbal's philoshpy of Life

    Posted 2 years ago on 22 Apr 2010 5:48 #
  9. Oh, this is getting absolutely fascinating, isn't it? There we have Hume telling us: "amidst all your philosophy, be still a man", which is a statement of great profundity. And hardly ever followed up. The intellectual's loss of humanity is a phenomenon which one encounters again and again.

    And then we have the unique Allama Iqbal. The philosopher-poet, the only one I know of who managed the daring, daunting task of setting into motion the creation of an entire country, our own beloved Pakistan. Iqbal learnt all he could of Western philosophy, then, sighing, he picked up his own pen and gave us his own version of what he had learnt. Not for him the aridity of rationality or the despair of existentialism. He offered us instead the empowerment of the human being (khudi) in the service of God (ishq) and Islam, the supremacy of the emotions over the intellect.

    For Iqbal was that rare thing which I personally cherish above all: the visionary, the mystic. His path to Allah was immediate and direct. And he, the freedom fighter of distinction, warned and warned us against crass materialism which is what he finally found when he lived in Europe.

    Please to correct me, psycho, wherever I may have gone wrong. I'm no specialist in the matter. Just a gaping admirer struggling for words.

    In conclusion, other philosophers were lakes, rivers, some even deep and stately. Allama Iqbal was and is the ocean itself wherein flow all things of the mind and heart.

    Posted 2 years ago on 22 Apr 2010 7:48 #
  10. mirza ghalib

    The next section of the poem titled ‘Zindagi (Life)’ is where Khizr explains to the poet the meaning of life. He begins:

    ‘Bartar-az andesha-e-sood-o-ziyaan hai zindagi

    Hai kabhi jaan aur kabhi tasleem-e-jaan hai zindagi’

    [Translation]

    “Life transcends profit and loss

    It is living your life and giving it up (for something)”

    Khizr illustrates to our protagonist that everything is recognized by its opposite. This is a simple enough concept. What is day? The absence of night. What is night? The absence of the day. Is it possible to have day without night? Is it possible to have white without black? Is it possible to have life without death? The one thing defines and in fact creates the other. Without the one, there would no longer be the other. Just so, Khizr tells the poet that posing the question in such a narrow way is meaningless and in fact, the meaning of life and its meaninglessness are one and the same. If one person asks the meaning of their life, the answer could very well be ‘nothing’(or whatever that person chooses it to be) but the question changes if one asks the meaning of Life with a capital ‘L’ i.e. Life itself, all life.

    Khizr goes on:

    ‘Tu issay paimana-e-imroz-o-fardaa say na naap

    Javidaan, paiham dawan, har dam jawan hai zindagi’

    [Translation]

    “Measure it not by this day or that

    Eternal, dynamic, ever young is Life”

    Here again, Khizr gently chides our poet for his narrow point of view. While any one person is always a prisoner of ‘today and tomorrow’, Life itself has no such constraints. It emerges, blooms, flowers, withers, dies and then starts anew.

    Khizr then goes on to teach the real lessons to our poet:

    “Apni duniya aap paida kar agar zindon main hai

    Sirr-e-Aadam hai, zameer-e-kun-fikaan hai zindagi’

    [Translation]

    “Create your own world if you count yourself among the living

    The Secret of Adam, the essence of (divine) creation is life”

    Here Iqbal demonstrates one of the central contradictions of his poetry and his life philosophy, the struggle to resolve its material and the metaphysical aspects. While Iqbal grew up in a deeply religious household he traveled and read widely. He was well familiar with the ideas of both the idealist and materialist Western philosophers i.e. those espousing Idealism, the proposition that ideas exist independent of matter (in its more extreme forms it may involve the denial of the existence of the external world) and those advocating Materialism, the philosophical theory that regards matter and its motions as constituting the universe, and all phenomena, including those of mind, as due to material agencies. While his poetry has some wonderful exhortations to action, it is also deeply imbued with Idealistic themes and in many instances, the calls to action flounder on the shores of appealing to the heavens for help.

    This is the case in his “Lenin in the presence of God” from his collection ‘Baal-e-Jibreel (The Wing of Gabriel)’:

    Posted 2 years ago on 22 Apr 2010 10:03 #
  11. The Universe is a highly powerful Transmitter where every human being is a Receiver.

    A person, blessed with the capacity to get Tuned to a Channel of very Fine Wave Length, transmitting super signals, is known as Philosopher, Prophet, Inventor, Poet.

    Only a few persons are blessed with the gift of receiving and interpreting the coded messages from Nature.

    History of Philosophy, starting from Plato to Bertrand Russell, mentions about only a few hundred noticeable philosophers.

    Ordinary human beings are limited to receive just Local Signals.

    Posted 2 years ago on 22 Apr 2010 10:31 #
  12. My God, this is getting better and better by the minute. The complexity of the human mind as presented by JS sahib, the complexity of the human soul as presented by psycho. Red, you had a brilliant idea there when launching this discussion.

    Posted 2 years ago on 22 Apr 2010 10:56 #
  13. psycho, I'll get back to you on the poem Zindagi and your interpretation of it. Give me some time, please. I need to assimilate it first. thanks.

    Ditto JS sahib.

    And perhaps someone else will also help us out with their views.

    Posted 2 years ago on 22 Apr 2010 11:37 #
  14. @Mirza Ghalib

    Khizr-e-Rah (Khizr the Guide)

    Al-Khizr (Arabic: “the Green One”) is an enigmatic figure in Islam. He is best known for his appearance in the Qur’an in Sura al-Kahf. Although not mentioned by name, he is assumed to be the figure that Musa (Moses) accompanies and whose seemingly violent and destructive actions so disturb Moses that he violates his oath not to ask questions.

    Islamic tradition sometimes describes him as Mu’allim al-anbiya (Tutor of the Prophets), for the spiritual guidance he has shown every prophet who has appeared throughout history. In Sufi tradition, Khizr has come to be known as one of those who receive illumination direct from God without human mediation. He is the hidden initiator of those who walk the mystical path and also figures into the Alexander Romance as a servant of Alexander the Great. Al-Khizr and Alexander cross the Land of Darkness to find the Water of Life. Alexander gets lost looking for the spring, but Khizr finds it and gains eternal life.

    The poem, first read in a session of the Anjuman Himayat-e-Islam (‘Association for the Service of Islam’) in 1921 was written against the backdrop of widespread pessimism and gloom in British Indian society. The aftermath of the destruction of World War I, the abolition and dismantling of the last ‘Muslim Caliphate’ the Ottoman Empire, the massacre of hundreds of innocents at the hands of British Indian soldiers at the infamous Jallianwala Bagh (1) and other repressive acts by the ruling British had created a somber mood across the land. This, combined with the ongoing economic depression, had created almost universal despondency, particularly in Indian Muslims. Interestingly, the poem also alludes to the dawn of a new age, where workers will no longer fall for the ‘tricks of the money-men’ inspired, no doubt, by the October Revolution in Russia in 1917 and the establishment of the first worker’s government in history:

    ‘Uth kay ab bazm-jahan kaa aur hee andaaz hai

    Mashriq-o-Maghrib may tere daur kaa aaghaaz hai’

    [Translation]

    ‘Rise, for a new age dawns

    Your era begins in East and West’

    Iqbal begins the poem by first setting the scene in some detail. Like most poets and artists, he had a keen eye for nature’s beauty and wrote many poems extolling the same. As with many of his best poems, this one, too, is in the form of a dialogue. The poet goes first, describing the peaceful scene around him:

    “Saahil-e-daryaa pay main ek raat tha mehway nazar

    Gosha-e-dil main chupaay ek jahan-e-iztiraab

    Shab sakoot afzaa, hawa asooda, darya narm sair

    Thee nazar hairan kay yeh darya hai ya tasveer-e-aab”

    [Translation]

    “Sunken in thought was I, one night on the river-bank

    My anguish buried deep in my heart

    Still was the night, quiet, calm the river

    Amazed was I at this picture of serenity”

    Warming up a little, after painting a picture of nature in all its tranquility, the poet then plumbs a little deeper into his imagination.

    “Raat kay afsoon say taair aashianon main aseer

    Anjum-e-kam zau giraftar-e-talism-e-mahtaab”

    [Translation]

    “Songbirds caged by night’s magic

    Dimly lit stars imprisoned by the moon’s sorcery”

    As the poet paints the scene, he comes face to face with the object of his search, the elusive Khizr.

    “Dekhtaa kya hoon kay woh paik-e-jahan paimaa Khizr

    Jis kee peeree main hai maanind-e-seher rang-shabaab”

    [Translation]

    “Who do I see but that wanderer, Khizr

    Young like the early morn”

    Khizr then addresses our poet and issues him a challenge:

    “Keh raha hai mujh say ae joya-e-asrar-e-azal

    Chasm dil waa hoe toe hai taqdeer-e-aalam be-hijab”

    [Translation]

    “Said he, O seeker of the secrets of eternity

    The Universe’ fate is clear only to the ‘seeing eye’”

    In his poetry, Iqbal often explores metaphysical ideas relating to life, death, birth, heaven and hell. In fact, his doctoral dissertation submitted in 1908 at the University of Munich was titled “The Development of Metaphysics in Persia” and this remained an abiding interest throughout his life.

    What does Khizr mean by ‘the seeing eye’? Ancient Esoterics and Mystics believed that there exists some special force inside humans which could perceive the essence of reality independent of intellect or reason. This was named Intuition which is usually taken to mean the ability to sense or know immediately without reasoning. It has been, variously, called ‘Gnosis’ in ancient Greek philosophy or ‘Irfan’ in the Sufi tradition. What the poet is implying is simply that the ‘secrets of eternity’ are invisible to the average person. They cannot be found by seeing, hearing, touching or any of the senses that humans ordinarily use to make sense of the world around them. One needs something more, willingness and a desire to look beyond the surface of things to try to get to their essence, something that requires effort, dedication, desire and love of learning and knowledge.

    That other great mystic, Mirza Ghalib expressed it thus:

    ‘Bay-khudi besabab nahin Ghalib

    Kuch toe hai jis kee pardaa daari hai’

    [Translation]

    ‘This intoxication is not meaningless, Ghalib

    Something remains hidden from view’

    In fact, this is a constant subject in mystical literature and poetry and countless volumes have been written on it through the ages.

    Moving on, Iqbal gets to the questions he wants to ask Khizr. He starts out with an easy one:

    ‘Chor kar aabaadian rehtaa hai tu sehraa naward

    Zindagi teri hai be-roz-o-shab-o-fardaa-o-dosh’

    [Translation]

    Why is Khizr forever ‘wandering the deserts?’

    living a life ‘without yesterday or tomorrow?’

    He then gets to the questions that make up the subject of the rest of the poem:

    ‘Zindagi kaa raaz kya hai, saltanat kya cheez hai

    Aur yeh sarmaya-o-mehnat main hai kaisa kharosh?

    [Translation]

    ‘What is the secret of life, what is monarchy (or government?)

    Why this antagonism between labor and wealth?’

    Khizr, in the first section of his response titled ‘Sehra Nawardi (Desert Wandering)’ answers the first question by another one:

    ‘Kyun ta’ajub hai meri sehraa nawardi par tujhe

    Yeh taga poe-e-dama-dam zindagi kee hai daleel’

    [Translation]

    ‘Why this surprise at my wandering ways?

    This eternal struggle is the very proof of life’

    Thus Iqbal illustrates a profound concept of life, its ever changing, dynamic, never still nature. Henri-Louis Bergson (1859 –1941) a French philosopher widely popular during his lifetime concluded that time eluded mathematics and science. To him, the ordinary, rational mode of understanding divides time into static intervals of seconds, minutes, days, weeks etc which prevents one from accessing the ‘ultimate reality’ of things.

    And, in fact, humans, by virtue of our limited understanding of the universe, can only measure time this way. To us, there is always a time that has passed, a time that is to come and very briefly, the time that is now. It is a cruel irony that also by virtue of our human nature, most of us dwell either in sorrow of our past or in fear of a future that is inherently uncertain. Faiz Ahmad Faiz, in his haunting poem ‘Hum Log’ (‘Us’) expressed it thus:

    ‘Dil kay aiwanon main liyay gul shuda shamon kee qataar

    Noor-e-Khurshid say sehmay huay uktaay huay

    Muzmahil saaet-e-imroz kee bayrangi say

    Yaad-e-Maazee say ghameen, dehshat-e-fardaa say nidhaal’

    [Translation]

    ‘Carrying a line of extinguished candles in the depths of our hearts

    Exhausted and frightened of the sunshine

    Enervated by the colorlessness of our days

    Sorrowful at the past and terrified of the future’

    Khizr, on the other hand, is presenting the opposite message. The change that time brings and the struggle that it implies, whether we like it or not, is proof of life and is what grants life meaning. The struggle is life in the most profound sense of the term. Cessation of movement, of change, of struggle means death, and though that is peaceful, it is no longer life.

    Khizr underlines this point in the last verse of this section:

    ‘Zindaa tar hai gardish-e-paiham say jaam-e-zindagi

    Hai yehi ae bekhabar raaz-e-dawam-zindagi’

    [Translation]

    ‘Robust is life’s wine cup because of this eternal movement

    This, O unknowing one, is the secret of eternal life’

    The next section of the poem titled ‘Zindagi (Life)’ is where Khizr explains to the poet the meaning of life. He begins:

    Posted 2 years ago on 22 Apr 2010 12:53 #
  15. "Yawns" at Philosophy :| but i salute to those and appreciate their patience to understand this very complicated nd ajeeb-ogareeb type of knowledge :| huh huh

    Posted 2 years ago on 22 Apr 2010 15:43 #
  16. Posted 2 years ago on 22 Apr 2010 16:30 #
  17. Hazaron sal nargis apni be noori pe rooti hai
    Bari mushkil se hota hai chaman mey dedawar paida.

    These powerful verses put me in mind as well of what Javedsheikh sahib said above about the rarity of communing with the universe, a gift given only to the very few.

    Posted 2 years ago on 22 Apr 2010 17:15 #
  18. @psycho
    Khalil-Allah Key Dariya main Houn Gey Phir Gohar Paida!
    Are we able to relate this with pre-history?

    Posted 2 years ago on 22 Apr 2010 17:26 #
  19. I don't want to kick on the graves of Confucius, Aristotle, Popper, Ibn Rushd or Iqbal, but allow me to retort.

    You are born to worship Allah and you will be judged as to who is the best of performer.

    If you understand this and work on it, that's all you need. No need to know intricacy of the relativity theory, big bang theory or the structure of the universe, although even better if you do. That also means you have an equal chance of succeeding if you are a camel herder on the border of Oman and Yemen, you don't know whether your camels are in Oman or Yemen, and if you don't know how to read or write. That's philosophy to the most credulous of minds, plain and unvarnished truth!

    Posted 2 years ago on 22 Apr 2010 21:56 #
  20. If I may reply, the camel herder on the border of Oman and Yemen has a better chance of finding favour in Allah's eyes than any of us book dwellers. They are the natural believers. We who read and write, we are what I call the twisted believers. At the same time, didn't the Prophet (PBUH) exhort us to learn, to go even as far as China for that purpose if necessary? Didn't he say the pen of a scholar was worth the blood of a thousand martyrs? Do you fear we are using the intellect as a means of escaping Allah's will? Or that the philosophers you mention above might come to serve as intermediaries between ourselves, the believers and Allah Almighty?

    Posted 2 years ago on 22 Apr 2010 22:17 #
  21. SufiSoul
    Member

    Quote:
    The Universe is a highly powerful Transmitter where every human being is a Receiver.....

    Both good and bad transmitters exits in the universe and both good and bad recievers are their in the universe..
    Both will catch the signals according to their capacity/chemistry for good or bad..

    It's never possible to catch the signals from good by bad and start acting upon such signals..

    If it were not so their was never needed a difference between good and bad.Things will get mix up and their would be no question arises about any one's credability or loyalty towards the truth/good........

    For example prophet would always catch the signals from good.Like the same when TV catch the signals never out of the signals made for RADIO.......

    This is a logical statement here and should be analysed logically....

    Posted 2 years ago on 22 Apr 2010 22:25 #
  22. Philosophy in Islam as worked out by Ibn Rushd, Ibn Arabi and Hallaj is a means of circumventing the actual message of Islam so much so that the prescribed way to success in the hereafter appears distorted, that is, a new meaning of Islam arises. When the message has been revealed and demonstrated, the job of the practitioner is to follow it to get the same results, but when you start experimenting, your results will change. The deen is complete, developing new ways to understand Islam whether philosophical or otherwise are fine as academic exercise, but to rely on them to explain organized religion is pure farce. Note that Prophet Muhammad SAW or his companions are not considered sufis or philosophers. Further, the followers were simple minded desert dwellers who would have not understood the message if it were convoluted. For instance there is no concept of Khudi any where in the lives or teachings of Prophet Muhammad SAW or his companions and yet Khudi, a borrowed concept from Sigmund Freud, is shown as a way to approach Allah. Any new way about which Prophet Muhamamd SAW did not inform us implies room for improvement and that his job was inadequate or incomplete. Chances are if you philosophize in Islam, soon you will question existence - yours and God's, reconcile anything that you think is good with Islam such as democracy, then would reason ethics e.g. hudood, then embark to find dimensions and temperatures of hell and heaven because you excel in the ability to question and reason which end up crossing the line more like Iblees. A Muslim with basic knowledge of Islam has answers to the unsolved question of philosophy such as "What is the meaning of life?", "Where did we come from?". "Where will we end up?" Don't fall in the philosophical pitfall.

    Posted 2 years ago on 22 Apr 2010 23:44 #
  23. SufiSoul
    Member

    philosophy me latarna atha hy humain......lolzzzzzz

    Dont worry......

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Apr 2010 0:18 #
  24. zia m
    Member

    lol
    I never thought philosphy as a Kabadi match.You learn something new every day.

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Apr 2010 0:45 #
  25. I wonder what is more hilarious? People who don't even have basic understanding of iqbal's message giving long lectures on his work or mental midgets trying to play kubdi with philosophy when they have no clue what it is about.

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Apr 2010 1:16 #
  26. SufiSoul
    Member

    Iqbal is just a poet never any authority in religious matters to follow....
    We dont need to understand and search IQBAL and should differ where he is in conflict with any of our belief.....

    I dont think why you people give IQBAL a status of Prophet nauzubillah..............?????

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Apr 2010 1:34 #
  27. No one is taking Iqbal as Prophet, but it is equally criminal not to acknowledge and appreciate his literary contributions.
    I noticed that the flow of thread has been sidetracked and confined to discuss Iqbal only.
    The topic under discussion is about,
    'Philosophy and its branches!'
    Each branch of knowledge at its climax, becomes Philosophy.

    While discussing History of Philosophy we might end up at the Philosophy of History.

    You are being notified not to use the word 'criminal' repeatedly as an obvious accusation 'criminal not to acknowledge' for a member SufiSoul who has objected.

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Apr 2010 1:45 #
  28. SufiSoul
    Member

    No one is taking Iqbal as Prophet, but it is equally criminal not to acknowledge and appreciate his literary contributions.......

    GALIYAN M U N A F I Q A T KI NISHANIYON ME SE HY......may be not in secularism...

    You are habitual NOW in loose talking Mr........
    And within few days you just earned this repo......

    YOUR ATTITUDE OF NAMING PEOPLE DAMAGED your image from javed shaikh to
    JAIDI ONLY.....

    Laikin aap doob chuky hain yahan,shayad isliye you repeat the same abusive language here,when you run out of Logics......

    @semirza&Beenai
    If naming some one as CRIMINAL is not abusive language than pls correct me....
    If it is than i think its third time this member used such language against me..
    Atleast he should be warned for this attitude....OR
    Pls allow me to defend myself as i know and can take better care of him,in teaching him lesson for the future...........

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Apr 2010 2:02 #
  29. LalBichoo
    Blocked

    SufiSoul Sb,

    There is already a thread on Allama Iqbal and I'd really appreciate if you can criticize/praise Iqbal there !

    http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/allama-iqbal-my-apologies-on-what-nation-has-done-to-your-dream

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Apr 2010 6:30 #
  30. LalBichoo
    Blocked

    @All

    Thanks for your input !

    This thread was initiated by me after having a discussion with one of the most learned members of this forum i.e. Mirza Ghalib, and sole purpose of this initiative was to have discussion amongst members of the forum which would allow them to learn Philosophy and its issues/branches especially Logic (art of reasoning) and Epistemology (Theory of Knowledge) here !
    I would again request to the members to please share their ideas/veiws/knowledge relevant with Philosophy here !
    Moreover, it would be better if we first discuss Philosophy and its branches/issues before starting a discussion on Philosophy of Religion or Muslim Philosophy !!!

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Apr 2010 6:33 #
  31. Semriza

    The above poetry is taken from Poem

    Khizr e Rah

    The Title of This Section is Taloo e Islam (Rise of Islam)

    This section mainly relates to fall of Ottomon Reign

    (Khilafat Usmani)

    Yes brother this is Pre History, and the poet is hopeful after the fall of Ottomon Reign (Khilfat Usmani)

    Khalil-Allah Key Dariya main Houn Gey Phir Gohar Paida!

    Khaillullah is Title of Hazrat Ibrahim Alehe Islam, He was the man who rebuild Baitullah ( The house of Allah).

    The Poet is hopful and telling us that he is seeing again the rebuilding of house Allah in hand of muslim.

    Our Prophet (hazrat muhammad (pbuh) is prayer of Hazrat Ibrahim so as ummti of Hazrat muhammad we become the river of hazrat Ibrahim,

    The poet is expressing that he is seeing something in the eyes of muslim and soon these pearls will emerges in river of Khalilullah

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Apr 2010 7:09 #
  32. Philosophy - A Guide To Happiness: Socrates on Self-Confidence

    Epicurus on Happiness 1 of 3
    Seneca on Anger 1 of 3
    Montaigne on Self-Esteem 1 of 3
    Schopenhauer on Love
    Nietzsche on Hardship 1 of 3

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Apr 2010 7:59 #
  33. LalBichoo
    Blocked

    """Epistemology (from Greek ἐπιστήμη - episteme-, "knowledge, science" + λόγος, "logos") or theory of knowledge is the branch of philosophy concerned with the nature and scope (limitations) of knowledge.

    It addresses the questions:

    What is knowledge?
    How is knowledge acquired?
    What do people know?
    How do we know what we know?

    Much of the debate in this field has focused on analyzing the nature of knowledge and how it relates to similar notions such as truth, belief, and justification. It also deals with the means of production of knowledge, as well as skepticism about different knowledge claims."""

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistemology

    """Defined narrowly, epistemology is the study of knowledge and justified belief. As the study of knowledge, epistemology is concerned with the following questions: What are the necessary and sufficient conditions of knowledge? What are its sources? What is its structure, and what are its limits? As the study of justified belief, epistemology aims to answer questions such as: How we are to understand the concept of justification? What makes justified beliefs justified? Is justification internal or external to one's own mind? Understood more broadly, epistemology is about issues having to do with the creation and dissemination of knowledge in particular areas of inquiry. """

    http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/epistemology/

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Apr 2010 8:12 #
  34. LalBichoo
    Blocked

    lota6177,

    Wow !!!
    And thanks for posting such a nice n informative collection of documentaries on Socrates, Nietzsche n others !!!

    "An un-examined life is not worth-living !' ----- Socrates

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Apr 2010 8:56 #
  35. Quite consistent with hadith but later ideas and choice of words are noticeably tilted:

    موت تجدید مذاق زندگی کا نام ہے
    خواب کے پردے میں بیداری کا نام ہے
    ہے اگر ارزاں تو یہ سمجھ اجل کچھ بھی نہیں
    جس طرح سونے سے جینے میں خلل کچھ بھی نہیں
    آہ غا فل! موت کا راز نہاں کچھ اور ہے
    نفس کی نا پابندی سے عیاں کچھ اور ہے
    موت کے ہاتھوں سے مٹ سکتا اگر نقش حیات
    عام اس کو یوں نہ کردیتا نظام کائنات
    جو ہر انساں عدم سے آشنا ہوتا نہیں
    آنکھ سے غایب تو ہوتا ہے فنا ہوتا نہیں
    زندگی محبوب ایسی دیدہ قدرت میں ہے
    ذوق حفظ زندگی ہر چیز کی فطرت میں ہے

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Apr 2010 10:37 #
  36. Dear lota6177,
    Very informative episodes to understand how philosophy helps to make an ugly looking object, beautiful.
    Flower exposes the true nature of the material, existing in the composition of a seed.
    The unknown process of hardship suffered by the seed, in the soil, finally brings out the pleasure in the shape of flower.
    Hegel's philosophy, helps to understand the evolution of a concept, thinking or idea which keeps on passes through three stages of,
    (i) Theses
    (ii) Anti-Theses
    (iii) Syntheses
    heading towards achieving perfection.

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Apr 2010 10:59 #
  37. Someone above scoffed at the need one felt to approach philosophy again with a questioning eye. Someone else accused us of knowing nothing about the subject while pretending to know a great deal. Both observations were correct. To answer the second first. It's because we know so little that we're trying to learn a bit more. And to the first, it's absolutely true, philosophy is a game of the mind simply, like mathematics or physics or philology, psychology and theology, to name only a few. Their interest only becomes apparent when from the purer, academic version of the thing we turn to its application. Applied philosophy (and all the other branches of human learning) can most definitely be defended as a useful tool for mankind to possess. One might even go further. Just like the food he needs on a daily basis, the water to quench his thirst and the air to breathe in the indispensable oxygen, the human being needs food for the mind and the emotions. Applied philosophy, let's say, is one such dish on the menu available.

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Apr 2010 11:44 #
  38. SufiSoul
    Member

    Quote:
    And to the first, it's absolutely true, philosophy is a game of the mind simply............

    Spot on MG.......

    Philosophy to (imagine) the things at opposite.And spend some time while bieng in the AIR.......And enjoy the imaginary situation bfore dropping down to earth.........lolzzzzzzzz

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Apr 2010 12:00 #
  39. The philospher of 22th century

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Apr 2010 12:05 #
  40. And now, after that introduction, if I may come to the heart of the matter. From the masterly collection of vds above, I picked out Friedrich Nietzsche's interpretation by Alain de Botton in his A Guide to Happiness series. Hardship, then, which we experience day in, day out in this beautiful, blessed land called Pakistan. What to make of it? Well, according to Nietzsche, all forms of suffering and failure should be welcomed for anyone seeking true happiness. Tough challenges are meant to be overcome like a climber tackling a towering mountain. Only when we reach the summit do we feel elation and realise what true happiness is.

    Nietzsche once wrote: "To those human beings of any concern to me, I wish suffering, desolation, sickness, ill treatment, indignities, profound self-contempt, the torture of self-mistrust and the wretchedness of the vanquished." Wow! What a programme of ills! But now let's look at N's definition of happiness: By no means "the religion of comfortableness" dear to "small, mean people". No. But something totally different, i.e. the putting in of an extraordinary amount of effort to reach something of infinite value of which one can say finally, yes, the pain was worth it. In conclusion and in Nietzsche's words: "To regard extremes of suffering as an evil, as something to be abolished, is the supreme idiocy."

    Nietzsche is probably the most misunderstood of the Western philosophers. And misunderstanding him has given us the West as it has become today, a meaningless jumble of individuals in a zombie-like state. But I hope the beauties of hardship will not be misunderstood by us Muslims and will give us fresh impetus to fight for the freedom of Pakistan.

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Apr 2010 12:06 #
  41. SufiSoul sahib, psycho, lovely, both your contributions. Anything that can make one burst out laughing is worth its weight in gold. And it still enters the mind and makes one think.

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Apr 2010 12:09 #
  42. LalBichoo
    Blocked

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Apr 2010 12:26 #
  43. LalBichoo
    Blocked

    A very good introductory book on Philosophy !

    Living Issues in Philosophy
    Edited by Harold Titus, Marilyn Smith and Richard Nolan

    http://www.amazon.com/Living-Issues-Philosophy-Ninth-Harold/dp/0195155092#reader_0195155092

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Apr 2010 12:47 #
  44. @LalBichoo

    Have you digged on Gödel?

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Apr 2010 18:47 #
  45. Bahut khub, barackosama sahib. Just before you talked about our need to be like shepherds on the Oman-Yemen border (BTW, a view I wholly agree with) and now you talk about Kurt Gödel! A man of many parts you are. My full respect. While waiting for LB sahib to appear, I did some "digging" myself. Here's what I found. Others with a finer eye will do it better than me. But, well, here goes.

    Kurt Gödel, German descent, mathematician, logicien, philosopher (1906-1978) - Great mathematician apparently, a science I and most others know next to nothing about. But his Incompleteness Theorems, in layman language, contain ideas after my own heart: a) arithmetic statements exist which can neither be proved nor refuted; b) the consistency (truth) of arithmetic cqnnot be proved in arithmetic itself (clever chap!).

    Gödel's philosophy: Rationalism with roots in Leibniz's Plato-inspired view that the world, whatever our personal experience of it, is perfect and beautiful and therefore rational and ordered.

    In one of his publications "My Philosophical Viewpoint" (1960), Gödel, ever the mathematician, provided a 14-items list on problem-solving in connection with abstractions. 2 from that list which should please many here: Item 3: There are systematic methods for the solution of all problems (also art, etc.). Item 13: There is scientific (exact) philosophy and theology which deal with the concepts of the highest abstraction.

    For us laymen, Güdel's views on Realism are also fascinating, i.e. "Materialism is false", "Concepts have an objective existence". One example: "This is Red" is true only if "This" really is Red." Meaning if successful references can be found, any abstract concept can be expressed in similar causal terms.

    Make of the above what you will, but in conclusion, a sweeping statement on my own part: The optimism of a Gödel, if shared by us all, would make it almost child's play for us to bring this country back on to the right path.

    http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/goedel/

    Posted 2 years ago on 24 Apr 2010 12:15 #
  46. I like Gödel for he has a consistent story in philosophy bounded by mathematical logic. Therefore he does not wander in imagination. His main work is about finding consistencies and completeness. He found Islam to be consistent and complete because it gives a full spectrum from Big Bang to Armageddon and beyond. That is, answers to the innocent mind about our creation, what we are doing here and where we're headed, something that other religions do not adequately provide. These answers are reasons for a large number of converts to Islam.

    Gödel, accompanied by Einstein, argued with the oath judge at the time of his US citizenship neutralization, that it is possible to legally install dictatorship under the US constitution. A Logical Journey: From Gödel to Philosophy is a good read.

    Posted 2 years ago on 24 Apr 2010 13:56 #
  47. Thank you, there. That was beautifully complete. And Gödel was a man of principle, a thing that we all long to be, if only we knew how. Also the bit about dictatorship which I never dare mention elsewhere. A good dictator is worth a thousand mediocre "democratically" elected govts. Not Gödel, he must have better reasons, me: drawn from personal experience. Shall definitely give A Logical Journey a try.

    Posted 2 years ago on 24 Apr 2010 14:57 #
  48. Allam's Iqbal Philosphy about hypocr!te leaders of satan

    Posted 2 years ago on 25 Apr 2010 8:57 #
  49. psycho, thank you for the above nizam, Iblis ka farman apne siyasi farzandon ke naam, where Iqbal is at his most hard-hitting. There are a few verses there which are extraordinarily fitting for our times, too. For instance,

    - Afghanistan ki ghairat-e-din ka hai yeh illaj
    Mullah ko unki koh-o-daman se nikalhdo

    and

    - Wo faakha kash keh maut se darta nahin zara
    Ruh-e Mohammad uske badan se nikalhdo

    Seems to me Iblis must have been talking directly to the West on this occasion.

    Posted 2 years ago on 25 Apr 2010 12:27 #
  50. And by West, I also mean its many puppets in our areas.

    Posted 2 years ago on 25 Apr 2010 12:29 #

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