PKPolitics Discuss » Political Parties

Politicians Innocent or Guilty?

(61 posts)
12

  1. Beenai
    Moderator

    a very obvious divide of opinion we can observe here at the forum as well as in general in all Pakistanis,about politicians and establishment tussle .
    it is there for sure .
    but do u think that its all nothing but propaganda that they are almost all corrupt?
    and they are innocent indeed?

    in my view :
    its both .
    establishment and army doesnt want politicians to improve their personal effectiveness and charisma over public.
    but thats a reality too that our politicians are Corrupt indeed ,at their own end too.

    Swiss accounts ,surray palace,Riawand palace,diamond glasses ,horses ,lions ............

    these are not Made-off things .
    they are corrupt too.

    that's why establishment conveniently proves them corrupt ,whenever it wants .

    Posted 2 years ago on 18 Sep 2009 6:30 #

  2. quaidkamazaar
    Member

    yeah well, politicians are mostly corrupt and they will do anything to create propaganda and hide their guilt.

    There is no one angel politician in Pakistan that can be followed according to me.

    the best we can do is to vote based on what we see with our eyes... how much a party is doing to help its people and the region they represent.

    one person i really liked was Zaid Hamid.
    until I realized one day that if he cannot control his emotions and says "We will see you in Panipat then" to India all the time. He is just a war monger who hates Hindus just because they are hindus and points out half truths in history.

    Posted 2 years ago on 18 Sep 2009 6:51 #

  3. amin1924
    member

    establishment holds the power and stays in power in all weathers... politicians come and go based on compromises/deals. Due to these weaknesses of politicians, establishment manipulates them to their advantage.

    Posted 2 years ago on 18 Sep 2009 7:22 #

  4. Beenai
    Moderator

    @quiadkamazar,
    u missed the whole point.
    i wanna discuss with u all here ,that
    R our politicians are as simple and innocent and gullible that establishment makes them fool every time and anytime?
    OR
    they are actually interested in corruption and huge money minting business...which gives an excuse to the establishment to kick them out any time,any fine day .

    Posted 2 years ago on 18 Sep 2009 7:25 #

  5. msohail83
    Member

    It's a 2 way street. They are both dependent on each other.

    Posted 2 years ago on 18 Sep 2009 7:35 #

  6. Beenai
    Moderator

    @msohail,
    true .
    and both of them are NOT innocent .
    but both are GUILTY ,in my opinion.

    Posted 2 years ago on 18 Sep 2009 7:43 #

  7. AsifK
    Members

    I agree to an extent that politician are guulty but again i would say

    "Responsiblity Comes with Authority"

    Politicians are guilty that becaz they act as front faces of establishment/ARMY. But ,everyone has its limitiation to bear. If we look at big political parties , almost everyone paid some price but then ultimately realized that in order to survivie in this country , they have to submit to ARMY. We speak of corruption of politicians , let me ask some simple questions.

    Whats family background of Gohar Ayub Khan ? who he has become billionare ?

    Whats family background of Ejaz Ul Haq and Hamiyon Akhtar ?

    Beenai bibi , very rightly pointed to Raiwand and surrey palaces. But bibi , Bhuttos were feudals even before partition. NS family owned one of largest steel plants in 1973 which was nationalized and that was far earlir than NS or BB joining politics. I don't say that they didn't anything but we have to look at things in perspective.

    Don't u think that DHA is instituionalized corruption ? How a major on retirement gets multi million rs. plots ? HOw every general gets multiple multi million plots ? Isn't corruition ?

    We speak of corruption of politicians . HOw much budget is at the disposal of politiciasn. A rought breakup is like 35% defence, 40% debt servicing , 18 % administrative expenses and 7% development expenses. Now , please tell me where politician can or do corruption. In 7% development expenses ? whats about 5 times bigger chunk ?

    We , the educated people , need to realize the real enemeny and issues of pakistan. This we do owe to our masses.

    Sorry for a long 'bahshan'.

    Posted 2 years ago on 18 Sep 2009 7:57 #

  8. Beenai
    Moderator

    @Asifk,
    none in my posts ,i have said that army and establishment are innocent .
    when i say ;'BOTH 'i mean 'BOTH '

    Posted 2 years ago on 18 Sep 2009 8:01 #

  9. msohail83
    Member

    Easy to whine about 'DHA', totally disregarding their services rendered for the nation for 20 years. It's a well deserved and hard earned reward. SIMPLE!

    In US, a serviceman gets a hefty check (pension) and free medical for rest of his life after retirement. Not to mention the tuition is reimbursed if they wanna get a degree.

    I don't see nothing wrong with that. You just like to bash ARMY, but come up with better reasons, please!

    Posted 2 years ago on 18 Sep 2009 8:06 #

  10. AsifK
    Members

    Beenai Bibi

    I didn't say directly that u said

    "said that army and establishment are innocent ."

    Its what u implied .

    Bibi,i would again say

    "
    We , the educated people , need to realize the real enemeny and issues of pakistan. This we do owe to our masses.

    "

    Posted 2 years ago on 18 Sep 2009 8:09 #

  11. AsifK
    Members

    msohail83
    What hard earned money ? Are nto these guys paid salary and pension ?

    What u r speaking off ? A flat valued at 5/6 million is given to a major at throw away price of 1 million ? isn't instutitionalied corruption ?

    Posted 2 years ago on 18 Sep 2009 8:11 #

  12. msohail83
    Member

    lucrative benefits are offerend by all the armies around the world.

    You like to sit behind a monitor and complain but don't have the courage to pick up a gun and stand on borders. I salute them for their service!

    Posted 2 years ago on 18 Sep 2009 8:13 #

  13. Beenai
    Moderator

    @Asifk,
    i never implied that .
    i always write only what i actually means .
    u think of me as pro establishment and pro army.
    which i am not .
    i blame army and politician equally for the disaster we are facing today in Pakistan.

    Posted 2 years ago on 18 Sep 2009 8:17 #

  14. tamza2k
    Members

    Dear Beena alot can be said on this topic but 1st tell me if is it of any use? I know so many politicians (personally) & i know man from Army ( thru indirect Sources) but what will be the use off putting mud? If & only if members from this forum or from anywhere in pakistan are making any lobby to launch a campaing then it makes sense. Otherwise we all discuss politics & its issues but only to discuss for a time. What i mean to say is it can sound reasonable if we have the courage to bring the issues to Awam & Adalat. Then let the AWAM & ADALAt decide what to do? But who will be the 1st one to take initative? Obviously neither you nor me then?????

    Posted 2 years ago on 18 Sep 2009 8:21 #

  15. Beenai
    Moderator

    @tamaza,
    every revolution starts from an individual .who thinks ...something is needs to be changed .
    first he spread this feeling and share it with ppl so he can get more power and then a revolution came into being.

    some ppl at forum thinks army s a holy cow.
    some ppl at forum thinks politicians are all innocent and everything wrong has been done in this country ,is being done by army and establishment.

    i just wanna maintain the argument
    that both of the views are two extremes .
    both are incorrect .in the light of available facts .

    Posted 2 years ago on 18 Sep 2009 8:36 #

  16. tamza2k
    Members

    @ Beena,

    I agreed whatever u said & yes revolution is the need. Things are wrong from the roots, see how many Heads had/has governed Pakistan? But if we study & observe its clear that all were puppets & behind them there was another hand ( some time internal force some time external) Starting from Yahya, Ayoob & now Mr. Gillani.Some time army sevres the politicians & some time Politicians serves the govt ( hope so word SERVE is clear). Both are resposnsible but at the same time we by ourselves are responsible for giving them loose hand to play with us. I hope & pray that combine we all can form a strategy. the reason i said that its none of use to mud masking anyone becuase i have found so many memebers there who do nothing except negaitve propagation & destruction.

    Posted 2 years ago on 18 Sep 2009 8:53 #

  17. AsifK
    Members

    msohail83

    I m in austalia and can tell u that no such benefits are offered .

    Beenai bibi

    I failed to convey my point . I didn't say that u have missed army from your establishment. I said that this is what u implied from my earlier msg and then stated your position in more clear words.

    Posted 2 years ago on 18 Sep 2009 8:56 #

  18. semirza
    Moderator

    Let us be honest and allow credit where it is due without any bias.
    We will not touch Mirza and Liaqat Ali (shaheed) just for the time being and begin from Ayub Khan, discussing each one by one:

    Ayub Khan: (his good deeds and his bad deeds)
    Yahya Khan:
    Z.A.Bhutto (shaheed)
    Zia Ul Haq
    Nawaz Sharif
    BB (Shaheed)
    Perwaiz Mushraf

    Ayub Khan:
    Good deeds: Upgraded canal systems. Built new canals and barrages.
    Built first Agricultural University.
    Built first Radio Isotope Facility (used for research)
    Built some schools and colleges
    Built Texila Heavy Complex

    Bad deeds:
    Rigged elections against Madre-Millat Fatima Jinnah
    Involved in Sugar Mill and other related scandals (Gohar Ayub)
    Gave rights of two rivers to India.

    You can add more to the list.

    Posted 2 years ago on 18 Sep 2009 19:50 #

  19. runaway
    Member

    @msohail

    What hard work is done by these military officers? Reward for what? For losing every single battle. For devouring most of the budget of Pakistan. Pakistani People pay for the their expenses. And these smoke cigars, play golf and send their kids abroad. And make millions with defense plots.

    Compare our military 'rewards' to those of India's. In India serving Brig live in tiny flats.

    Posted 2 years ago on 18 Sep 2009 20:09 #

  20. semirza
    Moderator

    warning - dont use abusive language.

    Posted 2 years ago on 18 Sep 2009 20:11 #

  21. baba_ji
    Member

    mSohail83
    The retired Army officers get some facilities but they dont get plots woth millions in foreign countries. The Vietnam veterans suffered alot due to unemployment (I did research on veterens when I was in USA).Name any foreign General who is a billionnaire in USA. Pakistani Army officers,including my own brother, have properties in Canada, Pakistan ,Uk.Even the officers returning from Iraq are having financial and social problems. I love Pakistani Army ,but dont agree that their wealth is justified,as you have created a brahmin class.This is legalised corruption.

    Posted 2 years ago on 19 Sep 2009 7:24 #

  22. msohail83
    Member

    Bawa ji, what percetage of our armed forces is enjoying those millions dollar plots overseas??? is it even 1%??

    What happened to your god of logic? Grazing in the backyard?

    Posted 2 years ago on 19 Sep 2009 8:27 #

  23. shriq
    Member

    The corruption in army is considered a taboo topic not to be discussed at any level/forum. The main chunk of our budget goes to the army. How they spend it can not be audited. We never will be able to know what they are doing with tax payers money.

    The other corrupt part is the beaurocracy which is responsible for spending the budgeted money on us (the awam) and I could not feel the effect of billions or rupees mentioned in budget trickle to us ever. Where on the way this money evaporates is the mystery I can not solve.

    Politicians come in power by hatching a plot with above two alongwith an asheerbad from USA. They then loot as much as possible. Then enjoy their (hard earned) holidays in Europe or Middle Eastern attractions.

    There is a concept in Islam "Taufeeq". Corrupt people spend millions on their rakh...s (pardon me please). This they do off camera (for obvious reasons). When it comes to spend something on poor people. They would give 500 rupees checks to widows, poor women on camera and this also not from their own pockets but from tax-payer's money. God snatches taufeeq from these corrupt people.

    Posted 2 years ago on 19 Sep 2009 10:32 #

  24. Anwer Kamal
    Member

    Poor politicians
    1952 to 2008 (you can count 5 years of Bhutto excluded)
    Army and beurocracy ruled
    Na haq ham majbboron par yeh tuhmat hay mukhtari ki
    Jo chahay so aap karay hay ham ko abs badnam kia

    Posted 2 years ago on 19 Sep 2009 20:48 #

  25. semirza
    Moderator

    How one can say politicians are Innocent. The opinion of masses is not in agreement to this.
    You cannot say they are guilty either. They had been implicated in cases against them, but not proven guilty.
    Our you can say that before they could be proven guilty NRO came to their rescue!
    May be there is something else to blame....The system itself including 'not so independent' judiciary!

    Posted 2 years ago on 19 Sep 2009 22:12 #

  26. Anwer Kamal
    Member

    See what Major Amir says.
    He was among the criminals busy against democracy.

    This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 483x628.

    I have to ask that why this poltry farm should not be closed.

    Posted 2 years ago on 20 Sep 2009 20:07 #

  27. raheb
    Member

    Pakistan DO NOT have many politicians, but people, mostly Guilty.

    raheb

    Posted 2 years ago on 22 Sep 2009 21:58 #

  28. Adonis
    Member

    As a nation we are prone to sweeping generalizations.

    But the reality is that not all politicians are corrupt, not all army men are corrupt and not all bureaucrats are corrupt.

    Especially in the case of politicians, I have observed that most of the people who think that all politicians are corrupt, are those people who never had any real interaction with any politician throughout their lives and their perception of politicians is primarily shaped by media.

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Sep 2009 7:53 #

  29. AsifK
    Members

    Adonis,

    I would agree to your oponion that its media based character assination of politician which has made politics and politicians a taboo.

    Mirza Sahib
    '
    You cannot say they are guilty either. They had been implicated in cases against them, but not proven guilty.
    Our you can say that before they could be proven guilty NRO came to their rescue
    '

    Before they cuold have be proven guilty ? HOw many years are needed to prove them guility. NRO was issued in 2007 when politicians were out of power for 8 to 11 years ? So , how much time is needed ?

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Sep 2009 8:17 #

  30. amin1924
    member

    There is a reason why people generalize, if a person is committing corruption and his fellow colleague stays quiet then he is also part of that as silence is partial agreement.

    The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said:

    Help your brother, whether he is an oppressor or he is oppressed. The Prophet was asked: It is right to help him if he is oppressed, but how should we help him if he is an oppressor? He replied: By preventing him from oppressing others.

    {Sahih Bukhari, Volume 3, Hadith 624}

    So the question is: are non-corrupt officers/politicians preventing fellow members from corruption?

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Sep 2009 8:22 #

  31. Revivalist
    member

    Politics in Pakistan has become an excellent business and the politician sees it this way. They invest in it and then earn many folds. Besides those who have enough wealth are looking for authority so that to go beyond the reach of law and do what ever they want. The situation in pakistan is a true depiction of this business as politician and their families give damn to the suffering of people and are busy in profit maximization i.e. Sugar mills, floor mils etc.

    Secularism/demon-crazy/capitalism has destroyed the vary fabric of the society and brought Pakistan on the verge of destruction. A country that is known as AGRICULTURAL country is suffering from severe Ata and chini crises with out being hit by any natural calamity is nothing but the product of capitalism.

    It’s true that the people we have as "politicians" are the most corrupt people of our society but I would blame secular democracy/capitalism equally for all this turmoil in Pakistan since its inception. If we honestly want to solve the problems of Pakistan we need to look into the bases of the issue and resolve it from its bases, we must root out secular democracy/capitalism and replace it with Islam, which is the only viable alternative we have.......

    Regards

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Sep 2009 8:52 #

  32. AsifK
    Members

    't’s true that the people we have as "politicians" are the most corrupt people of our societ'

    Isn't masjid has become a source of grabbing wealth like Lal Masjid mullahs who minted money first during Afghan 'Fasad' of 80's and then by grabbing precious land in the centre of islamabad ?

    Isn't army most corrupt which has capture the whole sea-front of karachi from Keimari to far off ibrahim haidari goth ?

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Sep 2009 9:37 #

  33. semirza
    Moderator

    Agreed. The root cause of our current sufferings are a direct result of greed/misdoings/blunders by our corrupt politicians.

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Sep 2009 9:38 #

  34. Revivalist
    member

    Dear Asifk,

    When I say politician that includes those who claim to be “Islamic political parties” and at the same time agree to secular constitution and democracy. Politician are to be blamed more because they claim to be the people who take care the affairs of the entire nation, the corruption of ARMY is touching sky and are to be blamed equally but the difference is that they are doing all this behind the curton. Besides, how can a Masjid and its Imam be so powerful with out the consent of government and its agencies in the capital of Pakistan? Why were they set free initially they way government set free Fazlullah initially to grow out of its skin and become a giant and then start a huge scale military operation, killing thousands of innocent civilians and displacing millions????

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Sep 2009 13:13 #

  35. Adonis
    Member

    @ Asifk

    I expected something more sensible and less rhetorical from you.

    One can accuse the brothers who were running Lal Masjid of many things like being extremists, fanatics, terrorists etc.

    But accusing them of financial corruption is pretty ridiculous. Abdul Rasheed Ghazi was a grade 17 officer in a govt department who left his job and joined the mosque after his father's murder. Till end he used to drive a suzuki FX. Similar was the financial status of his elder brother.

    As for minting money through land grabbing, usually that is done by commercial use of such land. If Jamea Hafsa was built illegally on govt land, how were they minting money from it by running a free seminary?

    One may dislike many people but inventing stories about them only belittles one's own credibility.

    Posted 2 years ago on 23 Sep 2009 14:52 #

  36. AsifK
    Members

    Adonis
    Wsn't Lal masjid extended on public land ? Isn't corruption ?

    Wasn't Jamia Hafza built on public land which was illegally grabbed by these guys ? What else is corruption ?

    Posted 2 years ago on 24 Sep 2009 0:33 #

  37. AsifK
    Members

    Revivalist

    Here u r missign some very basic point. Its not politicians but 'NAPAK ARMY' who claims to take the fate of masses into their hands and form history of pakistan its quite evident. Politicians are brought to front by ARMY when matters go out of control from its hands like in 1971 , ZAB was brought forward.Then in 1988 BB was brought forward and now again in 2008 politicians have been brought forward .

    Regarding Lal Masjid mullahs , its gorund reality that they had captured public property and when they felt that state is getting lands back ( as CDA demolisshed illegally built structures in the name of religion ) they turned into a fullfledge warefare.

    Posted 2 years ago on 24 Sep 2009 0:38 #

  38. Beenai
    Moderator

    @dear All,
    thanks for keeping this thread of mine ,focused and serious .
    and double thanks to semirza for keeping it that way.

    for the topic :
    my take is .
    politicians are guilty as well as military and civil bureaucracy too.
    believe me,if only one of them would be fair .
    we wont be in this kind of crisis we are facing today .

    Posted 2 years ago on 24 Sep 2009 5:09 #

  39. Anonymous

    My take is:

    We all are guilty. When we will become fair as a nation, we won't be in this kind of crisis as we are facing today.

    Posted 2 years ago on 24 Sep 2009 5:32 #

  40. Revivalist
    member

    ASIFK,

    I agree that politicians and army are corrupt, as politicians are busy is filling their pockets and Army failed to protect the country and its people, as every day we see US striking innocent people with its drone attacks and the army is dump silent rather is acting as a rented army for US….

    As for as the issue of Lal Masjid and Jamia Hafsa is concerned, please do be so naive... How can a land be captured in the capital of Pakistan and a madrasa be built with out the approval of the government? If you think its possible try once and you will see!!!! When the government demolished Some Masajid and the people in ISB protested then Ijazul haq Minister of religious affairs promised them that they will not demolish other Masajid and will rebuild the demolished one, which he did not fulfilled and the situation get deteriorated.

    Posted 2 years ago on 24 Sep 2009 9:58 #

  41. SYED AMMAR BUKHARI
    Member

    Dated: August, 21-2006
    To,
    The Nation

    DEMOCRACY IS A SOCIAL CONTRACT NOT A CONSTITUTION
    =================================================

    Dear Sirs,

    Your attention is drawn to the failed 1973 Constitution. The main reason for the failure of the Constitution that it could not defend itself during 1977 and 1999. Clause 6 of the constitution is imaginary not practical. This clause may create love for Politicians but does not give any solution as to how can a suspended/dismissed parliament can provide a law for punishment of persons found guilty of HIGH TREASON and who will bring them to justice?

    The 1973 constitution’s Sovereign Code conflicts with the judiciary, Mulla and Army Codes. The author of the constitution was completely alien to the principals of Sovereign Code. Thus he failed to synchronize the ideology and cultural code and could not design metonym common codes for the nation’s identity. The sovereign code of the constitution is copy of British sovereign code colored with French Sovereign Code without addressing antonym code of the two systems. Therefore it was not possible to synchronize its codes with our culture and ideology. The Constitution reflects the ignorance of the author toward the Metonym code, ideology code and the cultural code of democracy.

    This was the time when the nation had still not recovered from the shock of the disgraceful hand over of one wing to the enemy. The disintegrated and frustrated nation was not in proper mind frame to adopt any new constitution. United leaders imposed 1973 constitution on Divided Voters/Nation.

    The Constitution basically defines The manners in which sovereign Power is distributed, it is on the contrary and gives absolute powers to the Prime Minister to appoint. COAS, CJ, Secretary, Ambassador and Ministers Etc, including transfer, Posting of Key Jobs. As a result it gave birth to Mr. Bhutto’s dictatorship that used his absolute powers to appoint Mr. Zia by setting aside all requisite rules and regulation and by passed his seniors in the hierarchy. Mr. Bhutto’s objective was to control the reins of Army and to continue his dictatorship as long as he wished. But circumstances and the Mullas provided Mr. Zia an opportunity to send Bhutto to gallows. The constitution was subsequently amended and President became competent to appoint COAS. The history was repeated and Mr. G.I Khan appointed Mr. Kakkar ignoring all deserving Generals senior to Mr. Kakkar again with motive to continue as President as per his sweet will. This time situation and ground reality empowered Mr. Kakkar to forcibly and disgracefully obtain resignations from President and P.M. Again the Constitution was amended and prime Minister was empowered to appoint COAS. Once again Mr. Nawaz Sharif appointed Mr. Pervez Musharaf ignoring those seniors who had family relationship with Politicians. But again the constitution was helpless and global demands strengthened the hands of Mr. Pervez to exile Mr. Nawaz to Jeddah. How long can we circumvent the constitution and end up with amendments and failure?

    Politicians, Generals, Journalists, Jurists and Mullas, all of them demand Democracy. But none of them knows the metonym code, ideology code and cultural code of democracy. Leader must have the knowledge of DECODING OF CIVILIZATIONS for formulation of new codes. Any leader without this knowledge will be disastrous for the nation and that is our dark story after OTTOMAN ERA. Democracy is not constitution. It is a SOCIAL CONTRACT which demands new coding of corporate culture in our British Colonial System, in consonance with the ideology, religion, resources, opportunities and the manners in which sovereign power is distributed. Leaders provide a beacon for the right path to the nation and rulers keep the nation aligned toward the Path provided by the leader. Leader never Rules and Ruler can not lead the nation. Only a DICTATOTOR is self proclaimed leader and ruler.

    I have observed analyzed and decoded the western and eastern civilizations and their economic reforms for nineteen years and have practical exposure to almost forty countries. If the nation agrees for National Government then I can provide the knowledge of new coding of corporate culture with most advanced system in consonance with the ideology, religion, culture, resources, opportunities and the manners of sovereign power. I feel disturbed to see my Country in total disorder.

    United We Stand and Divided We Fall
    Best wishes for a Prosperous Pakistan

    SYED AMMAR BUKHARI
    Cell: +92-321-2345617
    http://www.maemaar.org.pk
    http://www.theradiantpath.com

    Posted 2 years ago on 01 Apr 2010 7:03 #

  42. gujjartalwar
    Member

    I am not sure Mr. Bukhari knows what he will do if given the reigns of power. He should first fugure out what practical steps he will take to turn things around.

    Posted 2 years ago on 01 Apr 2010 16:41 #

  43. skunkk
    Member

    @ Beenai:

    Those who speak for democracy and leaders are not of the opinion that politicians are corrupt. The point is that they may or may not be corrupt but is there an alternative?

    The generals are far more corrupt, as I wrote on another forum, that the alleged case of bribes in French Submarine case has 50 million dollars of amounts being distributed, of which 5 million were given to Zardari and the remaining to certain army officers. The problem is that the media will never reveal the names of those army officers but it has been targeting Zardari on the issue. Hence, Zardari is called to be the most corrupt when the claim can be easily challenged by any core commander of our beloved forces.

    Bottomline: In absence of Angels and after the ceasing of Prophethood,we have to elect lesser mortals. Two choices are to be made, one is regarding the system itself and the other regarding who should head it?

    In lesser mortals I seek lesser evil hence politicians over army men,

    in system, I will choose democracy in any given day

    Had politicians been that corrupt as army would have us believe, it would have been able to prove something in courts. As for army's corruption I think I alone can list hundreds of instances from my personal knowledge so if PCO Iftikhar can not act against his bosses it does not mean that they are angels.

    Posted 2 years ago on 01 Apr 2010 17:50 #

  44. choosy
    Member

    politicains ka qasoor double hay.
    wohh awam kay nuamianday hain.
    bearocracy walay yah phir army walon ko awam ne nahin vote diye ,wohh itnay responsible haumko nahin ;jitnay political leaders hain.
    Altaf ki khal khechna ,BB se question karna ,Zardari se surray palace ka pochna ,Nawaz se Riawand mahal ka sawal .

    humsubka haq hay .

    Posted 2 years ago on 02 Apr 2010 8:06 #

  45. LalBichoo
    Blocked

    In my opinion military rulers are the main culprit !
    However, yes politicians and judiciary are also guilty of helping military rulers !

    Posted 2 years ago on 02 Apr 2010 8:11 #

  46. choosy
    Member

    saray gulity hain.
    meray kahyal mein nayee bhartiyan honi chahiyein.
    chehron ko hataooo.
    Nizam laooo.

    Posted 2 years ago on 02 Apr 2010 8:44 #

  47. skunkk
    Member

    Politicians ka qusoor double hai? O bhai woh awaam ke numainday hain aur agar aap nizam chalnay dein tou woh phir aap ke saamne haazir hoge. Per aap woh mauqa he nahi dena chahte tou unka kya qusoor.

    Military has been the main culprit followed by judiciary and bureaucracy, politicians come at fourth.

    choosy aapne tou chehra hutwaa he diya BB ka, phir bhi chain nahi? Nizam tou hai lekin usko mauqa nahi dena chahte aap.

    Posted 2 years ago on 03 Apr 2010 12:58 #

  48. rhyme
    Members

    how many "mokas" do they want? all of them having been into politics for decades now...its their 3rd or 4th tenure...how much more time do they want to learn from their mistakes and work seriously? are they two or three months old little babies who will take years and years to learn how to take first step?

    Posted 2 years ago on 03 Apr 2010 13:02 #

  49. skunkk
    Member

    How many mokas???

    Are you kidding me?

    In the democracy's two stints

    there are only few who would find fault with Bhutto's governance, did democracy fail you then?

    In 1990's, army actively destabilized the whole country, be it midnight jackals, chaos in Karachi or Kargil which emptied the national treasury. Army ensured that no stone is left unturned to destabilize the system.

    Your beloved generals have ruined all institutions and you expect them to be built over night? Today because of democracy provinces have rights, it will no longer matter who is running the federal government because Provinces will no longer need to take permission from Islamabad before they have to build a road. So many structural changes are being done but you people remain in a state of denial.

    Posted 2 years ago on 03 Apr 2010 16:59 #

  50. Shaheen-e-Iqbal
    Member

    How could politicians be Innocent when this is what they do:

    Seek immunity from punishment if any
    If not than a First Class Jail
    Never comes up with direct answers to questions
    Lacks sense of responsibility
    Cheats on Taxes
    Never declares his true assets
    Always runs over budget
    Habitual Lier
    No shame in changing laws to fit their own desires
    Essentially corrupt to the core

    Posted 2 years ago on 03 Apr 2010 17:56 #

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