Thanks to Mulla who instigated me to write on this topic through one of his thread 'Bechari Bachiyan'.
I irrespective of having woman Prime Minister twice, having women caucas in Parliament and in workforce (though in very small percentage). The overall attitude towards women hasn't changed much. Disregarding the high profile women rights organization style comment and western style documentaries. I would write some extremely candid but bitter truth aboput attitude of Pseudo Macho Men of Paksitan. So let the game begin.
PKPolitics Discuss » Current Issues
Pseudo Pakistani Macho Men and Plight of Women
(63 posts)-
rafi
MemberPosted 2 years ago on 11 Sep 2009 15:03 # -
rafi
MemberThis is kind of repeat comment in one of the previous post.
1. Women in Paksitan aren't human being. They are just commodity.
2. Ahle-Quresh survived 14 centuries; they are now in different form. Most of the time in milder form; but sometimes show their true past too.
3. Since Pseudo Pakistani Macho man is torch bearer of AhleQureish. Therefore they are extremely careful to market their approach differently. They don't want the world to know that they are the real perverts and cowards. So they come up with different perception; usual ones are:
A. Zia style (religious)
B. Clan/Tribe Style
C. Micro (Inside Family Style)
D. Combo of A to C i.e. Hamara culture hamara muashra hamari tehzeeb hamara mazhab etcNow let’s go with some common punch lines from custodians of tradition of Ahle-Quraish.
1. Under the blanket of religion: Our religion gave so much respect to woman.
Response
Yeh, Yeh, Yeh I just hope you really understand what you are talking about.
2. Under the blanket of Clan/Tribe/Family:
They know for sure that they won't be able to charm a woman so they throw those women out of the equation and let the man of her family decide her fate.
Response
Real perverts and cowards3. Cursing west (my favorite)
Numbers of rapes, nudity, pornography blah blah. Another one i.e. all woman in western society are bitches and they can sleep with you at heartbeat.
Response
Every incident is documented; so carry on and keep your head buried in the sand. Pretending nothing is happening in your society. Also, please provide contact# of those bitches in west that can get laid at heartbeat. Atleast they will have their own consent before anyman dare to touch them.
4. Slave of West (the best one)
This is usually the final response at the discussion; usually when discussion turned into argument. The words are:
'West ke Ghulam etc etc'
Response
Come'on guys take it easy, be gentle and keep the conversation polite and come up with something objective.Doesn't matter a pagree wala moulvi, a Pathan labor, a sophisticated executive of muti-national Company, a muhajir clerk, a Punjabi farmer, a Sindhi Mazara or a Baloch fisherman. Being Pakistani male they have some commonalities. They want to get laid whenever they want to (woman consent doesn't count), get food served and glass of water fetched at their will. The list of unrewarded chores done for them by these human slaves are endless. It’s a great power, great luxury, a sense of ownership and fulfilment. No robot, no gadget and no technology is as useful and subservient as these human slaves. So why not keep them under the thumb and filter down fifty percent population and have fun. Key to continuation of this domination is keeping these woman economically dependent, do not let them develop earning skills.
Worst Form Pseudo Pakistani Male
This is one of the worst of the worst, they do not live in Pakistan. They are immigrants settled in Europe and USA, they exactly know that making these women economically self sufficient will eventually loosen their power grip in their small kingdom of male Badshahat. So they very tactfully keep these women 'stay at home mom'. As the life progresses these women loose confidance in themselve and then evetually Badshah male will be able to do anything at his will.Posted 2 years ago on 11 Sep 2009 15:18 # -
rafi
MemberPretty much agree with all with one exception; not all educated male are neccessarily a better person. Some of them have same kind of attitude, deosn't matter if they have PHD.
Posted 2 years ago on 11 Sep 2009 15:26 # -
Rafi Sahib:
What can I say that you have not already said oh so eloquently.
I not only agree with your post, I thank you for being able to express through written word the idiocities of male A-D.
I hope and pray the Almighty either changes the hearts and minds of such males or else ends their lives harshly and abruptly...... too much of the 50% population of women in Pakistan are bleeding, crying and kept in slavery due to the psyche of males A-D. Until a shift in attitudes does not happen Pakistan will never rise out of its darkness.
Posted 2 years ago on 11 Sep 2009 15:57 # -
msohail83
MemberGross Exaggeration!
Posted 2 years ago on 11 Sep 2009 16:04 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
@Rafi: Falling back to women's rights when you have nothing constructive to talk about?
Why do you want to show everyone, you'r another facist hiding in the guise of liberalism?
You don't really care about women's rights. Certainly you don't expect us to believe, that you'r wasting your time and effort for OUR women?
Get off!!! your worthless!!! bragging of this matter.
You have NO!!! credibility to talk about it.
Bugger!!!!! off!!!
Posted 2 years ago on 11 Sep 2009 16:05 # -
rafi
MemberI can give some leverage to Paksitani male because Est as whole including China, India and far East have similarities. Even West had those similarities in early part of 20th century. But they changes in last few decades, we are still behind.
It is basically an attitude of overall mankind towrds process of evolution in which we Pakistani male and Muslims are dumb enough to allow empowerment of women.Posted 2 years ago on 11 Sep 2009 16:10 # -
rafi
MemberHarisKhan
You are very funny man, please carry on.Posted 2 years ago on 11 Sep 2009 16:11 # -
Bhai Haris:
Shame on you for keeping your head in the sand.
Shame Shame Shame
Posted 2 years ago on 11 Sep 2009 16:12 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
@Rafi: You know you'r like US. US barks about 'women's rights' in Afghanistan, when it doesn't care about them.
What you'v posted here, I have already seen on a previous post. That means, you restarted this discussion for a purpose. What are your intentions?!?!!
@Oriel: I was going through some international news. There was mention of how gfs' are treated in US. I'll see if I can find that link. However, that should serve as an eye opener for you.
Problems we see within our society can be tackled relatively easily by bringing to 'justice system' to reinforce our society.
ALL that you think it wrong in our society is an 'artificially created' problem.
I don't think you'll be worried about any woman's rights, once women in our society has full protection of LAW of this country.
@Mulla Nafs e Zakkiya: What if I never tell you about it? Will you stick to being ignorant because of my inability?
Why don't you do your OWN independent research on the subject? You'v wasted enough time in sarcasm. Why don't you waste time in some constructive research, for once?
As the Americans say;
Start!!! DIGGIN!!! DAWWG!
Posted 2 years ago on 11 Sep 2009 16:53 # -
Bhai Haris:
when we talk honestly about the prob. of women's rights in Pak, it doesnt mean we are advocates of any system adverse to Islam. What is your problem? shouting first before brain has been engaged.
@Rafi:
most certainly continue in the way you are posting. What you are talking about is the truth.... and that is bitter for ostriches with their head in the sand
Posted 2 years ago on 11 Sep 2009 16:59 # -
rafi
MemberHaris Saheb
I don't mind more name calling from you, but what about subject matter? what about some objective comments. Its about 50% (85 million people); or they do not exist.Posted 2 years ago on 11 Sep 2009 16:59 # -
Haris Bhai:
dil karta hai aap ka kaan kheench ke aap ko rural areas (any) ley jaun.... jab koi haalat ki maari hui aurat miley, aap ko dass korhey maarun.... how can you possibly blame US/India/NATO/aliens/the bogey-man on the naff attitudes of males A-D rightly pointed out by Rafi?
You are quite amazing!
Posted 2 years ago on 11 Sep 2009 17:04 # -
Rafi:
Alpha male type A combined with Punch-line no.3 I think best describes this case.....
Posted 2 years ago on 11 Sep 2009 17:07 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
@Rafi: I stand firm on my statements. Your BS!'ing. What's the basis of your arguments? What's the point? What are you getting at creep!?!?!!!
@Oriel: I skimmed it before, but now I read it completely.
I stand FIRM!! on my words.
He's BS!!!ing!!! <- I'm saying this straight!-forward
..your going with him. I'm surprised?
What is the basis of your arguments?!?!!!
Posted 2 years ago on 11 Sep 2009 17:07 # -
Bhai:
The basis of my arguments is experience and life. My eyes, ears, mind, intuition have all been 'trained' in the art of recognizing pseudo male A-D, due to contact with said examples. I say so with utter loathing and regret.... regardless Rafi speaks the truth.
Can you possibly argue against this?
We are not talking about theory we are talking about the existence of perverted (of the mind) men that have manipulated and twisted the words of God for their own ends.If you are still having problems swallowing the truth take a visit to any rural area of your choice. go and spend a day with the women-folk, keep your eyes and ears open and hopefully your brain will tabulate the evidence.
Posted 2 years ago on 11 Sep 2009 17:16 # -
rafi
MemberHaris Saheb
I think I have to be careful in my comments now, because apparently conservative abuse is pretty much accepted as a routine but anything that doesn't sound like the one is taken up firmly. So here are some pointers.
1. How many cases wife beating are registered in police.
2. How rape victims are treated in overall society.
3. What is the percentage of women consent in arrange marriage situation.
4. How would husband will react if wife refuse to cook for two days.
5. After a long day out, when family reaches home and everybody is tired. Why would a mother, sister or wife has to continue working while all males settle down in their couches to relax and watch TV.
6. In a mariage does woman has any say in number of children she want to produce or it is the discretion of Macho male of the house.
7. What is the real situation of property inheritance if deceased assign all his property to one woman (be his wife, sister, mother etc). Can society is ready to accept it.
8. If a woman decide to stay unmarried, while having a successful career. How would overall society will treat her. Her respect in overall society will diminish. Contrary, same situation with the man and he become most eligible bechlor.I can go on with the list but please read these objectively.
Posted 2 years ago on 11 Sep 2009 17:20 # -
rafi
MemberIt is a matter of realization, sooner the better.
Posted 2 years ago on 11 Sep 2009 18:29 # -
The society in Pakistan edifies every male child that girls are inferior.
When they reach to their adolescence, they are made to believe that women are bad.
When men reach the age of marriage, they are taught to keep the wife under control by force and treat them nothing more than servants and child producing machines.With such a perceptive, in the back of their minds, how one can expect good for women by the men of Pakistan?
Posted 2 years ago on 11 Sep 2009 19:49 # -
shriq
MemberWhy people think that Islam does not give any right to women?
If you study Islam (Ulama on the forum correct me as I am not a religious scholar), you would find some amazing facts:
1. It was Hazrat Khadija who proposed our Prophet (PBUH) not the otherway round and Prophet never stated in his whole life that it is not allowed now (proposal by women).
2. First time in history of mankind, rights of inheritance.
3. Women participated in Ghazawat. (If they can particpate in Ghazwat, how they are not allowed to come out of their homes?)
4. Killing (burying) of daughters was banned. (Daughters have equal rights)
5. Women were allowed to take (nafqa) from husbands. (they are not slave of their husbands)
6. Hazrat Ayesha led an army. (Women can be head of the state)
7. It is (FARZ) on every men and women to get knowledge. Hadith. Equal education rights.
for the time I can only remember this. Dont think that if the women in Islamic world or Pakitan/Afganistan wear burqa they are denied their rights. They enjoy good life.
And yes, some people make religion the basis for doing some cruel acts against women. Women are suppressed. They are beaten. It was disgusting to know that people who claim to be TALIBAN of Islam have been destroying girls school and beating women for just getting out of her home with his father in law.
True Islamic teachings are excellent! If we follow them, our lives would be easier and better.
Posted 2 years ago on 11 Sep 2009 20:51 # -
rafi
MemberThat woman rights in initial Islam is no longer in practice. Ahle Queriash are back in new garb. You gave example Hazaret Khadija, can a woman in rural Pakistan dare to propose a man for marriage? Especially in, interior sind, punjab, balochistan and NWFP. She will be immediately chargred under adultery and incarcerated.
Posted 2 years ago on 12 Sep 2009 0:45 # -
zia m
Member@Oriel and Rafi
There is a very sad case of Pakistani couple going through divorce.I am sure your comments will be appreciated.Rights of women have been neglected for too long in our society.http://crazyhorse.pkpolitics.com/2009/08/31/an-islamic-divorce-complete-story/
Posted 2 years ago on 12 Sep 2009 1:55 # -
shriq
MemberDont blame Islam if the Muslims now are not following those teachings.
Current practice is something else, and what Islam has given us is something that needs to be followed.
My point of view is still the same that our religion has given rights to women. What is being practiced is nothing to do with the religion. It has got its effect from social behaviours of Hinduism.
We Pakistanis are more driven by our social pressures than by the religion. I shall give you one example only. A girl who is not wearing dupatta on her head is nagged more than the boy who is not saying his prayers. And if you study Quran, you would see that orders for prayers are almost at 70 places (Ulema on forum correct me if I am wrong) and order to wear dupatta only at one place. This is the social pressure.
In the end I would clarify that I am not against dupatta and hijab, so dont start a discussion on this.
Posted 2 years ago on 12 Sep 2009 2:33 # -
rafi
MemberShriq
Fair analysis, religion shouldn't be blamed. People need to be blamed.Posted 2 years ago on 12 Sep 2009 3:21 # -
rafi
MemberZia m
Your link had very long post but it was worth reading. I was hoping to read the happy ending and glad to get one. I kind of skipped the long testimony of both husband and wife but pretty much got the jist. There are many pervert Pakistani husbands in America who use all kind of scare tactics to sacre their new bride. Especially, if they bring her from Pakistan. Unfortunately, 80% girls accept abuse as their destiny. Their reason for accepting abuse may be many. They may not want their parents to go through an ordeal in Pakistan or they may have a younger sister in Pakistan and her divorce may jeopardise marriage of younger sister etc. etc.
Only way out of this situation is vocational and job skills; and information.
Finally, I haven't read whether husband was sent to jail for assault. I hope Judge did that.Posted 2 years ago on 12 Sep 2009 4:25 # -
baba_ji
MemberBarkhurdar Rafi
I am highly impressed with the arguments given by you.fortunately the things are improving ,though at snail's pace.Education of females is improving matters.
Posted 2 years ago on 12 Sep 2009 17:58 # -
rafi
MemberIts been a while since somebody called me Barkhurdar, well I am glad things are changing. Media and inforamtion explosion is playing a key role in this change. Sometimes highly educated male are greatest monster for females around them, they not only torture them physically but mentally too.
It may be politically incorrect to say that but we have to see model of India where females are asserting themselves slowly but gradually.Posted 2 years ago on 12 Sep 2009 23:13 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
@Rafi: I still standby my arguments, my statements.
You'r attempt at rooting out the family system of life OUT of our society will FAIL!!! INSHALLAH!!!
We do NOT!!! accept western life style, where the women educated or otherwise are 'maadar-pidar azaad'. Where boyfriends take advantage of 'these' 'educated girls', 'abuse' them in any way they want and they dump them.
Where girls get pregnant in their high school time. They are left out with the chores, with caring for their baby without the comfort, the strength of a man. Where women have to work day jobs, where they have to go through MORE abuse, where they become play-things for their co-workers.
Where girls become prostitutes from their high school time, who lust after sex with unlimited number of men all their life. Prostitutes don't have any respect in a society. Prostitutes who don't know which of their child was born off of which companion.
Where women are treated as sex symbols, something to be used, abused and then thrown away like a dirty tissue.
Look at how a woman is being persecuted in the west, after the family system broke.
We will NOT! make the same mistake.
We will NOT!!! allow people like you to defame our family system, which gives women MUCH MORE flexibility, MUCH MORE respect, MUCH MORE rights in life.
I agree, you'r talking about the minority, when you focus on these negative points. But, let me say again, they DO NOT!!!! represent our society. I reject!!! your attempt at highlighting the minority, naming them as majority.
Let me repeat, once JUSTICE SYSTEM is re-established, ALL of the problems you quoted will vanish into thin air.
Let me repeat .. I will NOT!!! allow you to root out family system from our society.
We are watching the demise of peaceful life in western nations, because of the same.
You have seen USA crumble many times in its 250 years of existence.
Whereas Muslims have remained dominant in this world for over 8 centuries through their culture, through their ideology.
I REJECT!!!! your claim. You are pointing at the deeds of few, with which you are trying to ruin the interests of the many.
The acts of the few MUST NOT!!! be allowed to ruin the interests of the many living peacefully
There are countless Muslims couples/families in the west living with harmony within the comfort, safety of a home.
Your attempt at highlighting the select few is not acceptable.
Millions of couples live in a city in harmony. If there are 5-10-20 different incidents taking place where women get treated badly, I do not consider them enough sample to give your statements worthwhile credibility.
I expect JUSTICE SYSTEM to handle these cases, bring order to our society.
Posted 2 years ago on 13 Sep 2009 13:01 # -
Haris Bhai:
Your above post has proved your lack of understanding and moronic tendencies.... I will attempt to explain why:
You have read into Rafi's postings with complete inaptitude, I see nothing in his postings which have lead to your conclusions of Western lifestyle for our women, prostitutism, behayai or any other fasha-type statements you are making. In admitting and recognizing our failures we can be one step towards finding solutions to them, these solutions must be in accordance with the system that Allah has prescribed for us.
The simple truth is that Pakistani society has problems. One of the main one being the problem of male attitudes towards their women-folk.
I really did think that a follower of haq and deen would be able to notice and realize the truth when he is presented with it, but you have proven me very wrong.
I am certain you will forever stick with your words and thoughts without an ounce of flexibility to understand or tolerate any other's point of view. This is your perogative. However, regardless of you or those like you that bay like a donkey before engaging brian, these unfortuneate truths of our society will continue to be uprooted and worked upon.
Posted 2 years ago on 13 Sep 2009 13:21 # -
baba_ji:
I think that education of both males and females regarding the true familial system and how to produce future adults that respect humanity, are law abiding and positive in attitudes towards each other is highly required.
Educating one part of society will result in an incomplete solution.
Posted 2 years ago on 13 Sep 2009 13:26 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
@Oriel: Let's talk based on facts, huh?
Why don't you bring some with you.
Looks like it will take a BIG, looong post from me to explain on the reality behind Rafi's words. I thought you had a mature enough brain to understand his words in the larger, more wider context.
I guess you need further clarification
Posted 2 years ago on 13 Sep 2009 15:10 # -
rafi
MemberScare mongering under the pretext of:
1. Family life is in danger and
2. Every woman is a pro in westIs an effective tool successfully used to keep the present status quo intact. Like all the other status quo, this one i.e. the most neglected one will Inshah Allah break.
Posted 2 years ago on 13 Sep 2009 17:00 # -
shriq
MemberAverage Pakistani family is living happily as far as family relations, love between man & wife, are concerned. (The story of Sugar, flour, electricity is a different.) it is normally one off incidences of violence against women that trigger discussions in western media about the "PATHETIC" condition of fair sex in Pakistan or Muslim world.
The guardians of women emancipation are very worried about "HIJAB" that Muslim women wear. Some think this is the hindrance in women's growth, liberty. Now liberty of doing what? The way women show their liberty in western world is not the way of life that should be adopted. This is the effect of the this liberty (of enjoying - to put it in least vulgar terms) that has destroyed the family system. "Why keep a cow in home when milk is availabe in market" is the mentality that would definitely destroy the western system of life. They dont want to raise the kids. So unknowlingly eliminating their own kind.
The extra marital affairs are what is destroying the family system. You can not deny it.
Forget about some uneducated parts of our society, women in Pakistan normally enjoy respect, they can do whatever they want(in certain reasonable limits-and by the way these limits are for men as well, men cant enjoy sunbath in open as western world men do at their beaches), they are engineers, doctors, pilots, prime minister, WHAT ELSE YOU WANT?
What liberty West / or western minded people are asking us to give to our women?
Posted 2 years ago on 13 Sep 2009 19:35 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
Let me add one more thing.
Pakistan gave women/females 33% representation in parliament, which in unlike any other system of governance in the world.
Even in US, women are not accepted as leaders.
In my opinion Pakistan made a BIG mistake in giving them that ammount of representation in parliament.
But what can we say? Its the people in the parliament who are doing this. This is NOT! the decision of the masses.
Posted 2 years ago on 13 Sep 2009 20:01 # -
winter
MemberI think there are two separate issues here:
1. If women are deprived of their rights or respect, then obviously its wrong because as good muslims, we must treat them with respect and love.
2. I despise the thinking of pseudo-intellectual people who think they are holier than thou. Apparently its become a fashion for the "enlightened" people to curse maulvis and then start their hateful propaganda against our family system. By being modern, people these days think that a woman MUST be doing the following, or else she is suppressed:
- She has to work...doesn't matter if she wants it or not.. if she's not working, these morons automatically assume she's being suppressed.
- She has to wear see-through/tight clothes, if she's doen't, these morons automatically assume she's being suppressed.
- She has to unnecessarily mingle with men and have late night dinners with her boss, if she's doesn't, these morons automatically assume she's being suppressed.
The thing is, if you want your woman to work or do any of the above things, then please be my guest. But I'd seriously consider the consequences of leaving your kids to naukars before making such decisions.
A woman who stays home, takes care of children and oversees their right upbringing is dong a far greater contribution than a 9-6 working machine who just brings back a couple of bucks.
And please dont get me started on the work environement in pakistan for women. Every pervert in the dept from the peon to the boss is usually hitting on them.
Posted 2 years ago on 13 Sep 2009 21:27 # -
@winter
I second you thoughts, and welcome aboard.Posted 2 years ago on 13 Sep 2009 21:29 # -
winter
Member@semirza
Thanks bro !
Posted 2 years ago on 13 Sep 2009 21:36 # -
@winter
You are welcome.Posted 2 years ago on 13 Sep 2009 21:39 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
@winter: I agree 100%
I haven't put this many details.
I already know these people already know about this.
They are 'guarding' their own interests.
Posted 2 years ago on 13 Sep 2009 22:13 # -
@winter
If I could understand your comment, it pertained to ‘working women’. Most of working women in Pakistan do so to earn bread and butter for their children due to unavoidable circumstances (of course a little percentage of women work for fun and those may fall in the category you stated).
Having said that, I may mention that overall percentage of working women in Pakistan is very low. Most probably, we are talking here about plight of women within the families and the society. As I have observed they are generally treated in an unfair manner by the family members and relatives.
I agree with your comments at serial number 1 and that should be the message for all of us.
Posted 2 years ago on 14 Sep 2009 2:24 # -
unfortunately ...the more our religion cares for women.
the less we practice as a nation.
in rural areas woman is considered an object.
a buying selling thing .in some areas it has been a symbol of honor .
and can be killed very conveniently in the name of honor .in urban areas ..she is getting education ,going for professional degrees and perusing for career as a doctor,engineer ,banker,lawyer ,teacher and nurse .
but still is facing difficulties at her work place as sexual harassment .
on a work place ,she has not been treated equally.
she earns less ,gets less increments and less promotions .
due to the reason that she can not be allowed by her parents or hubby to travel for work and she takes leaves when she is on a family way and she refuses to stay late in the night for work ...
so on and so forth .Posted 2 years ago on 14 Sep 2009 4:13 # -
rafi
MemberIt won't be easy to break the centuries old habits, as taditions become second nature and then become so complicated that all the taboos (i.e. religion, culture and cursing others) are brought into an argument. East or west doesn't matter; male behaviour towards women were pretty much the same towards beginning of 20th century.
Right now, rest of the world recognised once considered symbol of machoism is infact an act of perversion and cowardice. Different pockets of the world including China, India, Japan and Far Eastern countries are breaking those taboos too. But west become a usual suspect and sell good to ignorant crowd. Latin America doesn't even fall into west but it had shrugged off those symbols long time ago too.
Our society is far from even recognising that point, on the contrary status-quo of coward macho man are very powerful as a group. They collectively apply pressure to give an impression that everything is fine and this cry of women right is just an act of imagination. Centuries old supressed weak gender cannot defy their masters, it is beyond their imagination to even think that their opinion count. It is an unnfortune and sad phenomena to see this mindset still exist.Posted 2 years ago on 14 Sep 2009 4:26 # -
amin1924
memberRafi,
Regarding:
It won't be easy to break the centuries old habits, as taditions become second nature and then become so complicated that all the taboos (i.e. religion, culture and cursing others) are brought into an argument.
Quraish society in Makkah had many inhuman traditions but all social traditions were rejected by Muslims right away. I am sure we all are aware of many of those so I wont go in those details.
Idea here is that when one makes his ideology supreme over traditions, history, emotions, thinking etc only then they can progress in right direction. And Muslims proved that in history and will do so again -inshAllah.
Posted 2 years ago on 14 Sep 2009 4:38 # -
Fahim23
Member@Winter
1. I think we should accept that in our society whosoever is weak (regardless of gender) is oppressed, and victimised. And unfortunately most women because of their inherent physical weakness and cooked social status by male dominated society are treated unfairly in our society. I am not sure why you have written "IF" women are treated unfairly as if you have no idea...probably you haven't live in Pakistani society but whoever has lived will definitely know that "They are treated unfairly". And as far as I am concerned I think this thread is started to blast this thing in our awareness that we should see what we are doing to our women! We pretend to be macho men but actually we are hypocrite and perverts.
2. I'd partially agree with you on your second point that fortunately Alhamdulilah family system is something we should be proud of but even in that system if there is anyone who is treated as second class is the women. When you see women as mother, grand mother, sister, aunty or khala you might see that she is respected and honored but if you see women as wife and daughter you will see that how fathers react on their birth, and how mothers put her daughters before her sons, or how she is treated at the time of her marriage and afterwards. Beside what is the role of Mullah is in our society I think we all know about that.
3. Again we should not bother about those morons who think that women should work whether she wants it or not, or she should put see through dresses, but we should listen to them very carefully who say and should not deny that women are not given equal opportunities. Even if they want to work our society don't facilitate them. On the contrary they go extra miles to make sure that they stay at homes and "serve like slaves" without any acknowledgment or appreciation their husbands, sons and other family members.
4. I believe that if there is any Super human being in this world it is a "mother"! But how she is treated by husband, by her in laws and even sometimes by her children (especially male), is utter shameful!
We claim to be muslims and believe that women have rights too! But can we really say that we give them their rights? Right of marriage of her choice, right to get educated, right to do business/job, right of inheritance. In my experience most of times the answer is NO. If we want to change this attitude the very first thing we need to accept is that women are treated unfairly in our society!
Posted 2 years ago on 14 Sep 2009 4:46 # -
rafi
MemberJJ
Thoery and practice are too far apart, Ahle Quraish aren't gone yet. Their agenda is still active though they crossed the line and mingled with those who were infact supposed to bring the change. Same as the way PPP's original agenda was hijacked by Zardari. But I support your optimism.Posted 2 years ago on 14 Sep 2009 4:47 # -
amin1924
memberRafi,
Agreed on the level of distance, but I tried to tell how quick that distance can be closed.
Posted 2 years ago on 14 Sep 2009 6:49 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
First, as much as I hate to, let me repeat
1) When JUSTICE SYSTEM is re-established, that which obeys Islam, then ALL of your propaganda will vanish into thin air, since every woman will have all the protection she needs or requires to operate within her bounds
2) Secondly, does anyone understand the primary responsibility of a married woman? Would someone like to shed some light on that?
3) No one / collective has the right to interfere in the individual lives of people within families. This responsibility has been entrusted to people who implement justice system in our society. Their envolvement should fix 90% of the problems. People within the family should be free enough to complain independently. Again, the people who implement the law of the land, have the responsibility to get this done. NO ONE!!! else needs to brag about it
Again, perhaps you have no idea how women are treated outside Pakistan? especially in 'developed' nations. If you would have known, you would thank ALLAH ALMIGHTY, pray for betterment of our people
4) Fahim23, perhaps you have no idea how mothers are treated outside Pakistan? If you would have known, you would thank ALLAH ALMIGHTY, pray for betterment of our people
Posted 2 years ago on 14 Sep 2009 13:34 # -
Bhai Haris:
If I thought that anything I may say may possibly sway you to see the reality in Pakistan, I would get into this debate with you until eternity. Since I hope and pray that Allah is with the truthful, I know that things will improve for the women of Pakistan..... things surely can't get much worse! So we will Inshallah not need an eternity :-)
May I ask you whether you have lived for an extended time in the West?
Please answer this question, it is not a divergence from the thread, it is a question that is quite related.
Please just answer this one question: Have you lived in the West for an extended length of time?
Posted 2 years ago on 14 Sep 2009 14:56 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
I haven't set foot out of Pakistan to date, physically that is.
Posted 2 years ago on 14 Sep 2009 15:16 # -
winter
MemberOk, I have lived in Pakistan for a number of years and have lived in the west for a number of years. Following are my observations:
- While we have been left far behind in the technological advancement, yet our family structure is something which should make us proud
- The uneducated, poor women from lower-middle-class are unfortunately, sometimes mistreated which is wrong. I really don't like guys who beat their wives. This is utterly wrong and despicable. The only exception to this rule is if once in a blue moon, you just very lightly slap her back or something like that and that too only if she has done something seriously wrong. Otherwise, you have no right to beat her and even our prophet said that they best among you is the one who treats hiw wife with love and respect.
- On the other end of the spectrum, there are these so called liberal women who think that wearing see-through and tight fitting clothes, working in places where no decent woman should even enter, unnecessarily meeting with na mehrem men, having dinners with your boss, flirting etc are all part of "enlightenment". This is a totally wrong behavior and comes under behayai.
- Men and women are different and have different roles. The problems come when people try to make sure that Men and women are not only equal but THE SAME. Its like comparing oranges and apples. Men have their role in providing for the family while women have their role in being a home-maker. When women go out and work and leave their kids to naukars and don't do a thing at their home, its then that the problems start as it is unnatural
If you really wanna see how family life is in west, just see a couple of episodes of Judge Judy on youtube. It has real life people from US. Its pretty common to see women with 5 kids: 2 from first boyfried, 2 from 1st husband and 1 from current boyfriend and all three have left her. Can you imagine how will these kinda kids turn out to be.
About guys, who are desperately trying to "emancipate" women, we have a couple of folks like these in our university back in pakistan. Most of them spent their time being "aage peeche" of beautiful girls and said these things, to try to make a good impression on girls and hopefully get more girs. It was quite pathetic. Basically their main motivation is that once behayai becomes common, it will be easy for them to date girls and have sexual relations with them.
Posted 2 years ago on 14 Sep 2009 17:03 #
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